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Jake Matthews now #1

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Earlier in the season , I preferred Matthews .... In general I still do.

But .... Circumstances dictate course of action.

The circumstances here are simple - We don't have a quarterback. If you don't have a franchise QB , you go get one. Teddy , should he declare is probably your best bet to become that franchise QB , at least in this draft.

I don't want one of the scrap heap QB's that will be FA's this offseason , they have all proven they aren't "Franchise Quarterbacks." They are Schaub or worse .... I've had enough of that.

I guess you do have the option of drafting Matthews and letting Case act like an NFL QB for another season then drafting Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota in the 2015 draft .... but I'm not so sure I can stomach another season like this one.
 

Wolf6151

All Pro
I saw this a few days ago and wonder why Bridgewater has fallen a little. If the Texans took Matthews #1 overall then Rick Smith should be fired on the spot. #1 overall on a RT is not the best use of your resources. If they don't think Bridgewater is worthy of the #1 pick so be it. Trade down, get extra picks and then take Cyrus Kouandjio or Cameron Erving in the 1st.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I saw this a few days ago and wonder why Bridgewater has fallen a little. If the Texans took Matthews #1 overall then Rick Smith should be fired on the spot. #1 overall on a RT is not the best use of your resources. If they don't think Bridgewater is worthy of the #1 pick so be it. Trade down, get extra picks and then take Cyrus Kouandjio or Cameron Erving in the 1st.
Well , there are a couple ways to look at this .....

Yeah , Matthews would play RT here .... but how many more good years does Duane Brown have ? Will he actually play out that contract thru 2019 ?!? Matthews would be Browns replacement .... already on the roster. You have to think of this as a long term pick , not just the here & now.


If they decide Bridgewater isn't their guy , I'd much prefer to trade down too .... but you have to have a team willing to trade up for you to move down. Maybe you cant find a willing partner ....


Irving is a beast .... but again , is RT the best use of that asset ?! Its not #1 overall but its still likely top 5-8.


A trade down that landed one of Irving , Mosley or Evans .... would make me happy.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Well , there are a couple ways to look at this .....

Yeah , Matthews would play RT here .... but how many more good years does Duane Brown have ? Will he actually play out that contract thru 2019 ?!? Matthews would be Browns replacement .... already on the roster. You have to think of this as a long term pick , not just the here & now.


If they decide Bridgewater isn't their guy , I'd much prefer to trade down too .... but you have to have a team willing to trade up for you to move down. Maybe you cant find a willing partner ....


Irving is a beast .... but again , is RT the best use of that asset ?! Its not #1 overall but its still likely top 5-8.


A trade down that landed one of Irving , Mosley or Evans .... would make me happy.

This!
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Earlier in the season , I preferred Matthews .... In general I still do.

But .... Circumstances dictate course of action.

The circumstances here are simple - We don't have a quarterback. If you don't have a franchise QB , you go get one. Teddy , should he declare is probably your best bet to become that franchise QB , at least in this draft.

I don't want one of the scrap heap QB's that will be FA's this offseason , they have all proven they aren't "Franchise Quarterbacks." They are Schaub or worse .... I've had enough of that.

I guess you do have the option of drafting Matthews and letting Case act like an NFL QB for another season then drafting Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota in the 2015 draft .... but I'm not so sure I can stomach another season like this one.
I dont want Matthews at 1-1.

I could live with Jason Campbell next yr if it meant getting one of the top 5 QB's in 2015. After filling in all of the holes in this yrs draft. Long term planning should be the key. Do I think BoB/Rick are capable of this? Nope. Gotta sell those tickets/jerseys etc... Get ready to buy your Bridgewater jersey because that's what BoB does. Regardless of if Bridgewater his best for the long term health of his franchise.

But as another poster said BoB doesn't owe us anything and this is true. Because if it wasn't true Rick Smith would be out of a JOB.
 

Texian

Hall of Fame
IMHO I don't think Matthews will be the first OT taken in the draft. There are a couple of more athletic OTs that could be in this draft. Matthews last few games were disappointing.
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
I have no issue taking Matthews if we'll have have a shot at a Bortles in the 2nd and/or a Mettenberger in the 3rd.

St. Louis would take Matthews or Clowney or Teddy, so they won't be a trade partner.

We won't get to see the most interesting part of this offseason, which will be the trade machinations/offers/scenarios.
 

bah007

Hall of Fame
I have no issue taking Matthews if we'll have have a shot at a Bortles in the 2nd and/or a Mettenberger in the 3rd.

St. Louis would take Matthews or Clowney or Teddy, so they won't be a trade partner.

We won't get to see the most interesting part of this offseason, which will be the trade machinations/offers/scenarios.
Not likely barring some unforeseen event. Bortles is basically a top 20 lock at this point and Mettenberger won't make it out of the top half of the second round.

This is also the problem with all the trade back scenarios. How do you ensure that you can trade back and still get the guy you want?
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Not likely barring some unforeseen event. Bortles is basically a top 20 lock at this point and Mettenberger won't make it out of the top half of the second round.
For the purposes of this discussion I'm using their board, which has Bortles at 38 and Mettenberger at 80.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Not likely barring some unforeseen event. Bortles is basically a top 20 lock at this point and Mettenberger won't make it out of the top half of the second round.

This is also the problem with all the trade back scenarios. How do you ensure that you can trade back and still get the guy you want?
Well in our situation as we have so many needs, we select the guy the team we trade with wants and then swap when they pick the guy we want. If the deal falls through we still have very good player 1-1. For me there is so much question with all the QBs, if we hit on one in later rounds, it could be best bet. I am again looking at McCarron who has moved up a round. If you can set aside the "game manager" description he compares favorably with all especially if you figure in wins and competition, playing under the lights. With a refurbished offensive line (which we have to do regardless who takes snaps) and a healthy Foster a "game manager may just be what we need. You can say AJ was nominated for Heisman on body of work not 2013 but you could also say many other QBs were not selected due to their 2013. For me body of work shows consistency.
 

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
Anyone advocating a RT in the 1st round should be fired from their pretend-GM job. There is absolutely no reason why we can't get a pass rusher or QB with our 1-1 pick. Those are the two biggest premium positions in the league, besides LT, which we already have in Duane Brown. We really shouldn't have to spend more than a 3rd on a competent RT given where we will be drafting. Let someone else pick Matthews or whoever at OT in the 1st while we focus on OLB and QB with our first two picks.
 

Honoring Earl 34

Something Witty !
Anyone advocating a RT in the 1st round should be fired from their pretend-GM job. There is absolutely no reason why we can't get a pass rushing QB with our 1-1 pick. Those are the two biggest premium positions in the league, besides LT, which we already have in Duane Brown. We really shouldn't have to spend more than a 3rd on a competent RT given where we will be drafting. Let someone else pick Matthews or whoever at OT in the 1st while we focus on OLB and QB with our first two picks.

This is what we really need . :peek:
 

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
Anyone advocating a RT in the 1st round should be fired from their pretend-GM job.
Well, go ahead and fire me then. I really didn't like working for you anyways. :fingergun:

If we get Matthews at 1-1, and Mettenburger at 2-1, I'm good.

EDIT: Given that this year's draft has NOBODY worth the 1st overall pick, and if you don't have any takers in trading down, then you minimize the risk and take the SAFE pick. All the QBs on the board are at risk of being a bust. Given the David Carr fiasco, taking that risk again without addressing the OL is stupid.

Matthews is the less risky pick. Play it safe, and take the risks in the lower rounds.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Anyone advocating a RT in the 1st round should be fired from their pretend-GM job. There is absolutely no reason why we can't get a pass rusher or QB with our 1-1 pick. Those are the two biggest premium positions in the league, besides LT, which we already have in Duane Brown. We really shouldn't have to spend more than a 3rd on a competent RT given where we will be drafting. Let someone else pick Matthews or whoever at OT in the 1st while we focus on OLB and QB with our first two picks.
The first pick has to be a solid starter for several years with probable pro bowl invites. Matthews imo has fewer risks than almost any player including Barr and all QBs. Can we trade down and still get a good tackle, sure but cannot we say the same about most other positions also?

The history of Texans drafting is usually to select a player who can play more than one position. Matthews should be able to play four of five and maybe center, as did his dad who had five years as a pro bowl center. I think Jake is closer to a franchise type player than any of the other projected first rounders. You cannot always look at the dad and see how the son will do but the Matthews have done pretty well going back to Clay Matthews Senior.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Well, go ahead and fire me then. I really didn't like working for you anyways. :fingergun:

If we get Matthews at 1-1, and Mettenburger at 2-1, I'm good.

EDIT: Given that this year's draft has NOBODY worth the 1st overall pick, and if you don't have any takers in trading down, then you minimize the risk and take the SAFE pick. All the QBs on the board are at risk of being a bust. Given the David Carr fiasco, taking that risk again without addressing the OL is stupid.

Matthews is the less risky pick. Play it safe, and take the risks in the lower rounds.
Give me Clowney at 1-1. But I wouldn't be upset with your scenerio. Cant go wrong with picking Matthews.
 

Texan_Bill

Hall of Fame
Earlier in the season , I preferred Matthews .... In general I still do.

But .... Circumstances dictate course of action.

The circumstances here are simple - We don't have a quarterback. If you don't have a franchise QB , you go get one. .
"Jane, you ignorant slut!"

This draft is rich with QB's.... Just sayin'....

I mean after all Derek Carr would be available... :kitten:
 

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
What's the point of having a RT if he has no one worth protecting?

What's the point in having the first pick if you can't confidently draft an above average (at least) starter at multiple positions?

What's the point in drafting if you aren't willing to take a little risk?

We have been drafting ****ty in the later rounds for years. Most teams find their RT in free agency or later rounds of the draft. There's no reason why the Texans can't do that, or shouldn't try. You rarely see a team spend 2 first round picks on both tackle positions, because it's just too damn much to spend on a position that should be filled for less resources. If you can't find a competent RT in rounds 3-1 though 7 then you need a new GM (which I am in favor of!).

Think of it this way, how much does the average RT cost in the NFL? How much dose the average strong-side pass rusher cost? How much does the average QB cost?

Figure out where to spend picks based on scarcity and costs so you don't over-allocate resources to one position. Picking Matthews, IMO, is overallocating resources to the OT position. It would be a reactionary pick due to the poor play at RT, rather than a calculated pick based on salary-cap football.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
What's the point of having a RT if he has no one worth protecting?

What's the point in having the first pick if you can't confidently draft an above average (at least) starter at multiple positions?

What's the point in drafting if you aren't willing to take a little risk?

We have been drafting ****ty in the later rounds for years. Most teams find their RT in free agency or later rounds of the draft. There's no reason why the Texans can't do that, or shouldn't try. You rarely see a team spend 2 first round picks on both tackle positions, because it's just too damn much to spend on a position that should be filled for less resources. If you can't find a competent RT in rounds 3-1 though 7 then you need a new GM (which I am in favor of!).

Think of it this way, how much does the average RT cost in the NFL? How much dose the average strong-side pass rusher cost? How much does the average QB cost?

Figure out where to spend picks based on scarcity and costs so you don't over-allocate resources to one position. Picking Matthews, IMO, is overallocating resources to the OT position. It would be a reactionary pick due to the poor play at RT, rather than a calculated pick based on salary-cap football.
You are entitled to your opinion .... and in theory I don't disagree.


But QB being the greatest position of need .... Either there is one you feel is a franchise QB or not. If you feel he is the real deal you draft him.

If not .... then you have the #1 pick in the wrong damn year , tough luck.

I'd prefer to trade down because I don't believe there is a franchise QB in this draft and that none of the other players are worth taking (For this team) at #1 overall. I wouldn't touch Clowney in the first round , Barr is good player ... but over rated.

But .... to move down you have to have someone willing to move up.

If you cant move down and aren't taking Bridgewater .... Matthews is probably the safest pick in this draft. He fills a dire need and can eventually replace your franchise LT when he is cut , traded or retires.
 

JB

Innocent Bystander
Contributor's Club
You are entitled to your opinion .... and in theory I don't disagree.


But QB being the greatest position of need .... Either there is one you feel is a franchise QB or not. If you feel he is the real deal you draft him.

If not .... then you have the #1 pick in the wrong damn year , tough luck.

I'd prefer to trade down because I don't believe there is a franchise QB in this draft and that none of the other players are worth taking (For this team) at #1 overall. I wouldn't touch Clowney in the first round , Barr is good player ... but over rated.

But .... to move down you have to have someone willing to move up.

If you cant move down and aren't taking Bridgewater .... Matthews is probably the safest pick in this draft. He fills a dire need and can eventually replace your franchise LT when he is cut , traded or retires.
I agree with all that, but CJ Mosely awfully tempting if we can get a trade down to about 5
 

Scooter

Funky
i dont mind taking a RT with the first overall, with today's rookie wage scale of course. if you have a guy that projects to be someone you'll have on the roster for 10+ years, that's worthy of a first overall regardless of position to me - especially when it's a current need. of course the position comes into play if there's a higher ranked position with the same "sure thing" label attached, but i'd rather have the starter than the question mark.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
What's the point of having a RT if he has no one worth protecting?

What's the point in having the first pick if you can't confidently draft an above average (at least) starter at multiple positions?

What's the point in drafting if you aren't willing to take a little risk?

We have been drafting ****ty in the later rounds for years. Most teams find their RT in free agency or later rounds of the draft. There's no reason why the Texans can't do that, or shouldn't try. You rarely see a team spend 2 first round picks on both tackle positions, because it's just too damn much to spend on a position that should be filled for less resources. If you can't find a competent RT in rounds 3-1 though 7 then you need a new GM (which I am in favor of!).

Think of it this way, how much does the average RT cost in the NFL? How much dose the average strong-side pass rusher cost? How much does the average QB cost?

Figure out where to spend picks based on scarcity and costs so you don't over-allocate resources to one position. Picking Matthews, IMO, is overallocating resources to the OT position. It would be a reactionary pick due to the poor play at RT, rather than a calculated pick based on salary-cap football.
Your first sentence is the issue DR as we can get something to protect in second round. Bortles, McCarron and Mettenberger all rated after #38. Other teams may draft RT in FA or later rounds, well we did also with minimal results. Antonio Richardson is the only OT after first round that can start for us and I am very concerned he will go in late first and I don't automatically project him to RT anyway. I do need to add that JuWaan James could start but the further you go less chance he will be there.

I am not concerned about cost as Matthews would be on at least a four year contract for reasonable money as was DB. 4-5 years from now we worry about Brown's last years. Sometimes you draft a good player and cut costs elsewhere. You control your cap by wisely bringing in cheap young draft picks and cheap FA and occasionally UDFA and knowing when to move on from your expensive vets. I am definitely not arguing cap with you but just offering my POV.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I agree with all that, but CJ Mosely awfully tempting if we can get a trade down to about 5
Huge fan of Mosley but draft is very deep with similar type ILB. Heck even Blair of Cincinnati is rated 5-6 round and he is pretty dang good.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
i dont mind taking a RT with the first overall, with today's rookie wage scale of course. if you have a guy that projects to be someone you'll have on the roster for 10+ years, that's worthy of a first overall regardless of position to me - especially when it's a current need. of course the position comes into play if there's a higher ranked position with the same "sure thing" label attached, but i'd rather have the starter than the question mark.
Agreed it would be like drafting a healthy Antone Exum to play safety for 2-3 years to replace Manning and then move him to corner when Joseph goes. If I thought TB was a franchise QB, I'd gladly take him and go RT later, but that is not what I or others think. IMO there are better QB candidates in second round than RTs.
 

SW H-TOWN

Rookie
I would not mind taking Matthews, we really have to get another T, but we have to get the QB position taken care of first. If our FO is not sold on Bridgewater I would prefer to trade back a couple of spots and get several extra picks. It is imperative that the Texans obtain a QB, OLB, and OT in the offseason.

One extra thought, I sure hope that we don't pick Jadevon Clowney with the #1 pick. He has 35 total tackles, 10.5 TFL, and 3 sacks. That is completely unacceptable considering his talent level. Just to put that into perspective Anthony Barr has 63 total tackles, 20 TFL, and 10 sacks.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
I would not mind taking Matthews, we really have to get another T, but we have to get the QB position taken care of first. If our FO is not sold on Bridgewater I would prefer to trade back a couple of spots and get several extra picks. It is imperative that the Texans obtain a QB, OLB, and OT in the offseason.

One extra thought, I sure hope that we don't pick Jadevon Clowney with the #1 pick. He has 35 total tackles, 10.5 TFL, and 3 sacks. That is completely unacceptable considering his talent level. Just to put that into perspective Anthony Barr has 63 total tackles, 20 TFL, and 10 sacks.
Curious as to why it matters when we take care of QB or any position as long as we take care of it? I am really surprised that we do not have all the BPA fans screaming BPA. Some are but not many.
 

SW H-TOWN

Rookie
Curious as to why it matters when we take care of QB or any position as long as we take care of it? I am really surprised that we do not have all the BPA fans screaming BPA. Some are but not many.
I'm just saying that we can have the best 2 tackles in the NFL but we won't sniff a Super Bowl without a franchise QB. QB has to be the first, second, and third priority. Just look at Green Bay with and without Aaron Rodgers.
 

toronto

Hall of Fame
This is going to be (depending a little on Teddy declaring) a possibly wild first round. There will be a lot more top-end trades for QB-hungry teams and the prices will be high. Going to be fascinating to watch it unfold next April.
 

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
Curious as to why it matters when we take care of QB or any position as long as we take care of it? I am really surprised that we do not have all the BPA fans screaming BPA. Some are but not many.
Well, I'm screaming BPA from the rooftops, you're exactly right. If you are unfortunate enough to get stuck with the 1st overall pick, you'd better damn well take the BPA, no matter what that position happens to be.

Reaching with the first overall pick to fill a certain position is stupid. This team did that in their very first year and look how that ended up. There is not a single QB on the board this year that would not be a reach with the first pick. There are no "franchise" QBs available. Bridgewater would be a reach. Manziel would be a reach. Boyd would be a reach. Derek Carr would be a reach. That being said though, this year's draft is deep in QBs.

Look, I don't know if anyone's been keeping up, but we also happen to have the 1st pick in the 2nd round. Looking at the latest mock projections, it's very likely that Boyd, Carr, Mettenburger, and Hogan will still be available. Manziel might even be there if he can't keep his trap shut. So what is all this hyperventilating about we just have to take a QB with the first overall, when we will have the pick of the litter in the 2nd?

And just where is written in stone somewhere that "franchise" QBs could only be gotten in the top of the first round? Was Tom Brady drafted in the first round? Was Drew Brees drafted in the 1st. What about Colin Kaepernick, or Russell Wilson?

Ideally, they find a partner to trade down with and get extra picks, but I would be shocked if that happened, as I don't think there is any team stupid enough to think that any player is worth trading up to get the 1st overall. So we are going to be stuck with it, the SAFE pick is the SMART pick. Get the RT, it fills a big need, and we get a good QB in the 2nd round.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Anyone advocating a RT in the 1st round should be fired from their pretend-GM job. There is absolutely no reason why we can't get a pass rusher or QB with our 1-1 pick. Those are the two biggest premium positions in the league, besides LT, which we already have in Duane Brown. We really shouldn't have to spend more than a 3rd on a competent RT given where we will be drafting. Let someone else pick Matthews or whoever at OT in the 1st while we focus on OLB and QB with our first two picks.
This is where trade scenarios come in. A QB centric team who has zeroed in on TB (say Cleveland) who fears that the the top 3 QBs will be off the board by it's 5th pick might be willing to pay dearly to move up to 1 or 2. They have 5,24,37,69,76,101,120,133,165 and 197. While there might be some risk moving back to 5, there would be an outstanding player there and more picks, particularly high ones, increase our chances of filling more gaps with quality prospects.

I'm of the opinion that TB may be the best of this years deep crop of good QBs, but I don't think any have GREAT or ELITE expectations. We have good QBs who can't overcome poor line play and better players on IR. Between IR players returning and four top draft choices, I think we can return to the exciting team we were expecting.

Think about it. Would you rather have TB or Matthews AND Bortles AND a top CB or DE in addition to our 33 pick (S?)?

ps the old trade value book says #1-1=3000; #1-5=1700, #1-24=740, #2-5=530, #3-5=245, #3-12=210,#4-5=96... Two first and a fifth would balance plus a premium to jump QB hungry teams like Houston, Jacksonville, Oakland, or a possible trade with St. Louis by Minnesota or Tennessee.
 
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mussop

Hall of Fame
Your first sentence is the issue DR as we can get something to protect in second round. Bortles, McCarron and Mettenberger all rated after #38. Other teams may draft RT in FA or later rounds, well we did also with minimal results. Antonio Richardson is the only OT after first round that can start for us and I am very concerned he will go in late first and I don't automatically project him to RT anyway. I do need to add that JuWaan James could start but the further you go less chance he will be there.

I am not concerned about cost as Matthews would be on at least a four year contract for reasonable money as was DB. 4-5 years from now we worry about Brown's last years. Sometimes you draft a good player and cut costs elsewhere. You control your cap by wisely bringing in cheap young draft picks and cheap FA and occasionally UDFA and knowing when to move on from your expensive vets. I am definitely not arguing cap with you but just offering my POV.
Your first sentence is the issue Badboy as you think using a sports website big board in December is a legitimate Guide to making a viable decision on draft strategy. That is something I would expect from Texian.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
And I'm sorry for all you trade down guys who think that we have a chance to pull in a haul like the rams got. That was for a rare prospect. As of now there isn't one of those in this draft. You better keep your fingers crossed that one will emerge in the draft evaluation process. However if one does its way more likely he's our pick than us trading down.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
And I'm sorry for all you trade down guys who think that we have a chance to pull in a haul like the rams got. That was for a rare prospect. As of now there isn't one of those in this draft. You better keep your fingers crossed that one will emerge in the draft evaluation process. However if one does its way more likely he's our pick than us trading down.
.... then you have the #1 pick in the wrong damn year , tough luck.



Makes me hate the Dolts that much more. :smiliepalm:
 

The1ApplePie

Hall of Fame
Anyone advocating a RT in the 1st round should be fired from their pretend-GM job. There is absolutely no reason why we can't get a pass rusher or QB with our 1-1 pick. Those are the two biggest premium positions in the league, besides LT, which we already have in Duane Brown. We really shouldn't have to spend more than a 3rd on a competent RT given where we will be drafting. Let someone else pick Matthews or whoever at OT in the 1st while we focus on OLB and QB with our first two picks.
MSR

Clowney, Barr, or Bridgewater are the only picks to make in that position. Even with the mythical trade down, taking a RT in the first simply makes no sense. Pass rusher and QB are the two most important positions on the team, the Texans have one pass rusher and no QB. Take a RT at the top of the 3rd, problem solved.

The Texans need a starting QB, not a 3rd round project or "Less Talented Mark Sanchez" AJ McCarrin
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm just saying that we can have the best 2 tackles in the NFL but we won't sniff a Super Bowl without a franchise QB. QB has to be the first, second, and third priority. Just look at Green Bay with and without Aaron Rodgers.

Yep and there isn't a franchise QB available in this draft. IMHO So do you want to force the QB pick and set this franchise back another decade like Casserly did with Carr?

2015 is when the franchise QB's are coming out. The Texans should be doing everything they can to position themselves to get one at that time. Of course BoB/Rick cant see that far ahead.
 

deucetx

Rookie
Honestly what I would really like for them to do if they get the number one pick is trade down. There generally is always someone who reaches and with so many teams needing a quarterback they may want the position to get the one they want. As long as our asking price isn't something idiotic a good GM should be able to make this happen. Now if Smith is a good one remains to be seen as I think many of us have some doubts in that area. This will probably be the first draft he has more power in the decision making depending on the coach hire.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
I agree with all that, but CJ Mosely awfully tempting if we can get a trade down to about 5
I've said on more than one occasion I think Mosley is the best "Football Player" in this draft. Would be happy with most any trade down scenario that landed him and other draft considerations.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I would be OK with

Rd.1 Clowney/Barr
Rd.2 Bortles/Manziel/Mettenberger
Rd.3 Morgan Moses/James/Mewhort

That's value picks.
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Anyone advocating a RT in the 1st round should be fired from their pretend-GM job...
Just chewing the fat until we get some clarity, here. Who's the Head Coach? Who's the new Offensive Coordinator? Who's the Defensive Coordinator? Are we running ZBS or Power or some hybrid? Dink & dunk or downfield passing. 3-4, 4-3, 5-2?

I can't fit a QB into an unknown system, and I want to draft/prioritize front seven into a scheme. And what are we hearing from the "draft bowls", underwear Olympics, and especially the interviews & pro days?

So the clock isn't ticking yet on my pretend GM card. Waiting for Rick's phone call... :kitten:
 

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
Just chewing the fat until we get some clarity, here. Who's the Head Coach? Who's the new Offensive Coordinator? Who's the Defensive Coordinator? Are we running ZBS or Power or some hybrid? Dink & dunk or downfield passing. 3-4, 4-3, 5-2?

I can't fit a QB into an unknown system, and I want to draft/prioritize front seven into a scheme. And what are we hearing from the "draft bowls", underwear Olympics, and especially the interviews & pro days?

So the clock isn't ticking yet on my pretend GM card. Waiting for Rick's phone call... :kitten:
I don't care what the scheme is, you don't take a RT at 1-1, unless you plan on losing your LT in the near future. Duane Brown's contract is not tradeable for several years, so he's not going anywhere. And again, if you have a GM that isn't capable of finding at least an average RT in rounds 3-7, then you need a new GM. It really shouldn't require so much of our draft ammo to fill the RT position.
 
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WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
And just where is written in stone somewhere that "franchise" QBs could only be gotten in the top of the first round? Was Tom Brady drafted in the first round? Was Drew Brees drafted in the 1st. What about Colin Kaepernick, or Russell Wilson?
It's not written anywhere. However, 75% of the starting QB's in the league were drafted in the 1st round. Now, can you find guys in other rounds? Sure. But the odds are against you.

I went through the numbers in a different thread last week. The odds of finding a franchise QB are astronomically higher in the 1st round and they get even better the higher you go up the draft order. Despite the bust rate being very high, it's still much lower than the bust rate for QB's drafted outside the 1st.

People love to point out Brees or Wilson, which is fine, but let's not act like that's the norm. It is a rare occurrence. For the most part, if you want a starting QB, you're using your 1st round pick to get him.

With all that said, I do agree with you about BPA. We should not take a QB just because he's a QB. He should be the best player. Taking a QB just because he's a QB will only add to that bust rate.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
I would be OK with

Rd.1 Clowney/Barr
Rd.2 Bortles/Manziel/Mettenberger
Rd.3 Morgan Moses/James/Mewhort

That's value picks.
Mettenberger is the only guy that has a chance to last until #33. In that scenario, you're picking between Mettenberger, McCarron, Murray, etc.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Mettenberger is the only guy that has a chance to last until #33. In that scenario, you're picking between Mettenberger, McCarron, Murray, etc.
If you feel one of those guys are your guys then you could trade up using 2-1 and your 2015 1st depending on how far you wanted to trade up. For instance if Borltes fell to 15 would you trade a 2014 2nd/4th and a 2015 1st to pick Bortles? If you truly think Bortles is a franchise QB you do the trade.

Right now I just dont see a QB that's worth 1-1.
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
If you feel one of those guys are your guys then you could trade up using 2-1 and your 2015 1st depending on how far you wanted to trade up. For instance if Borltes fell to 15 would you trade a 2014 2nd/4th and a 2015 1st to pick Bortles? If you truly think Bortles is a franchise QB you do the trade.

Right now I just dont see a QB that's worth 1-1.
If I truly think Bortles is a franchise guy then I take him #1. Why would you trade picks this year and your 1st next year for a guy that you could just take #1?

I still don't understand that scenario and you've laid it out many times before. You can use your 1st this year on a QB or you can use your 2nd this year and 1st next year on a QB. Why would you choose the 2nd option?
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
You are entitled to your opinion .... and in theory I don't disagree.


But QB being the greatest position of need .... Either there is one you feel is a franchise QB or not. If you feel he is the real deal you draft him.

If not .... then you have the #1 pick in the wrong damn year , tough luck.

I'd prefer to trade down because I don't believe there is a franchise QB in this draft and that none of the other players are worth taking (For this team) at #1 overall. I wouldn't touch Clowney in the first round , Barr is good player ... but over rated.

But .... to move down you have to have someone willing to move up.

If you cant move down and aren't taking Bridgewater .... Matthews is probably the safest pick in this draft. He fills a dire need and can eventually replace your franchise LT when he is cut , traded or retires.
Best player available. If that's a tackle, so be it. It's not like the team doesn't need a tackle as well. So you can pair need and BPA. That's a win-win scenario.

Oh yeah, people want to force the QB pick. The only way I buy the argument that you have to draft a QB high if you have that pick is if you are willing to give up on him after one season. Because the next year, you might have a high draft pick and a better QB might be available. I mean, we're all about getting a great QB, right? Or did we want to set the franchise back 2-4 years while they figure out if the last #1 guy was the right pick?

How long do you give a new QB? 6 games? 10 games? 2 years? 4 years? Or does it just depend on if the QB was someone you touted and wanted brought in?

:smfh:
 

WolverineFan

Hall of Fame
Oh yeah, people want to force the QB pick. The only way I buy the argument that you have to draft a QB high if you have that pick is if you are willing to give up on him after one season. Because the next year, you might have a high draft pick and a better QB might be available. I mean, we're all about getting a great QB, right? Or did we want to set the franchise back 2-4 years while they figure out if the last #1 guy was the right pick?

How long do you give a new QB? 6 games? 10 games? 2 years? 4 years? Or does it just depend on if the QB was someone you touted and wanted brought in?

:smfh:
We all know this is about Keenum. Please take that to the Keenum threads.

And I mean that with no offense and please don't take it personally. But the guys here talking about drafting QB's have either a) given up on Keenum a while ago or 2) never thought he was the guy. The majority of the guys here probably think a 1st or 2nd round draft pick is more talented than Keenum and deserve more time to start and prove himself than an UDFA to so it's pointless to start all that.

FWIW, I agree about BPA and not forcing a QB. I do not think Matthews is BPA however.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
If I truly think Bortles is a franchise guy then I take him #1. Why would you trade picks this year and your 1st next year for a guy that you could just take #1?

I still don't understand that scenario and you've laid it out many times before. You can use your 1st this year on a QB or you can use your 2nd this year and 1st next year on a QB. Why would you choose the 2nd option?
This is such a great post, it hits the nail on the head.

BPA for Texans has to be a QB they can insert into starting role & become face of the franchise. I get the whole maximize your pick leverage argument but if TB or Bortles is your guy, sign him & let's move this franchise forward.

First thing is finding a new coach then both underclassman have to declare bypassing Senior season for NFL.
 
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