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Duane Brown and Jake Matthews

badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
There has been some useful comments on other threads but would like to have it centered here if possible. On my most recent mock, I have Houston selecting Texas A&M OT Jake Matthews in first round. He played RT until 2013 when he moved over to LT and is doing well. He did bounce over to RT to replace injured Cedric Ogbuehi against Vanderbilt. *Note Ogbuehi has stated he is returning to school.

My thought is Matthews should start day one at RT and eventually replace DB at left tackle. Brown is 28 & is under contract until 2018 with prorated bonus & dead money up after 2016. When Matthews is ready, DB switches to the right and hopefully prolongs his career. He will be 33 end of his contract & making almost $10 m each of last two seasons. Here is a link:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/duane-brown/

For this thread, I am not interested if you think another position should be addressed as that is being discussed elsewhere. What do you think of this plan? Thanks!
 
I had thought the same thing in reading comments about not using a high pick on a RT. I wouldn't make the shift until Brown's play falls off demonstrably. In either set up the two have the potential to be the best OT combo in the league for an extended period.
 
Need two good tackles and a guard with a nasty disposition. I have zero issue drafting Matthews -- gotta like those bloodlines.
 
Playoffs said:
Need two good tackles and a guard with a nasty disposition. I have zero issue drafting Matthews -- gotta like those bloodlines.
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I think this would do that; two excellent fixtures @ tackle, Brooks with the nasty streak and Q with the solid working man ability. He could be even better than I hope. If a healthy Brennan Williams and Newton can help we have room. If Newton does not do better 2014 is his last contract year. We know Ryan Harris will re-sign cheaply.
 
If Matthews is what he's supposed to be, then I really don't have any issues with taking him in a vaccum.

But I would not take him with any plans of moving him to LT in 5 years. That's half a decade away. Lots of things can change.

I remember people were saying we were set with brown and Winston at tackle for years to come.
 
Rey said:
If Matthews is what he's supposed to be, then I really don't have any issues with taking him in a vaccum.

But I would not take him with any plans of moving him to LT in 5 years. That's half a decade away. Lots of things can change.

I remember people were saying we were set with brown and Winston at tackle for years to come.
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I agree on 5 years but I was thinking move in 2-3 as it usually takes that long for LT to develop & if Brown could then switch to RT + extend his career...I also think we could have been set with Winston for years as he did play for 6 with us and then two more so far with other teams.
 
aussie_texan said:
in my mock i pretty much had the same idea with lewan. so i would be very happy with this scenario
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I'm on boad with Matthews if Clowney isn't available.

Brown & Matthews = Watt& Clowney

I can only imagine how great Watt could be with a bad a** like Clowney drawing double teams.
 
steelbtexan said:
I'm on boad with Matthews if Clowney isn't available.

Brown & Matthews = Watt& Clowney

I can only imagine how great Watt could be with a bad a** like Clowney drawing double teams.
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Here is the thing. Why didn't Texans just resign Mario?

Brown is locked up awhile & Matthews could also be locked up under a rookie salary cap friendly contract but just can't imagine being able to afford Watt extension on top of contract Clowney will be looking for. I know that's not what you want to hear & there's no harm in dreaming :bubbles:
 
If you were worried about contracts for current players enough to keep you from drafting others, why draft at all? :thisbig:
 
beerlover said:
Here is the thing. Why didn't Texans just resign Mario?

Brown is locked up awhile & Matthews could also be locked up under a rookie salary cap friendly contract but just can't imagine being able to afford Watt extension on top of contract Clowney will be looking for. I know that's not what you want to hear & there's no harm in dreaming :bubbles:
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kinda moronic to draft with potential future cap 'implications' in mind.
 
beerlover said:
Here is the thing. Why didn't Texans just resign Mario?

Brown is locked up awhile & Matthews could also be locked up under a rookie salary cap friendly contract but just can't imagine being able to afford Watt extension on top of contract Clowney will be looking for. I know that's not what you want to hear & there's no harm in dreaming :bubbles:
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Unlike the posters below, Clowney wont cost 100 mil like MW did. But I understand what you're saying. With that said Matthews ranks #1 on my board. But I'm not thru evaluating the college talent. Or the Texans Talent. (Keenum/Graham/Martin/RB's etc...)
 
Is Matthews the best OT in this draft? Yes. Is Matthews the best player if available when we pick? Yes. Is Matthews the best value when we pick? I don't know. If we could trade down from the top 5 to the mid 1st (12-15ish) and still get Erving or Kouandjio in the 1st, I think there would be better value for us as well as getting an extra pick or 2.

As for your plan, I think it's sound but has 2 flaws that I can see. Since the big money on DB's contract doesn't kick in until after 2016 I have doubts that DB is with the team after that. He might be a salary cap cut at that time. Also getting moved to RT won't extend DB's career. Teams have 2 great pass rushers now so it would be just as hard on DB and he'd have to learn a new position in the process. Now he could maybe get moved to LG to extend his career. I know it's also a new position but shouldn't be as hard on him. Maybe we could extend DB's contract another couple years in 2016 and lower his salary cap hit in the process.
 
Wolf6151 said:
As for your plan, I think it's sound but has 2 flaws that I can see. Since the big money on DB's contract doesn't kick in until after 2016 I have doubts that DB is with the team after that. He might be a salary cap cut at that time. Also getting moved to RT won't extend DB's career. Teams have 2 great pass rushers now so it would be just as hard on DB and he'd have to learn a new position in the process. Now he could maybe get moved to LG to extend his career. I know it's also a new position but shouldn't be as hard on him. Maybe we could extend DB's contract another couple years in 2016 and lower his salary cap hit in the process.
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I think you are overly concerned on both your flaws. Flipping sides is not at all unusual for an OT. Two of Brown's college seasons were spent at RT so the perspective is not new to him. Brown's cap hit does not go up substantially after a large bump he will get next season. At the height of his contract he will still be under the 2013 franchise tag number of $9,828,000. His contract is not back end loaded on the cap and is not a burdensome contract for someone of his caliber. 33 years is not time for the retirement home for many OLmen.
 
I have only about 15 years of real nfl watching experience. How many premier LT's switch to other positions with the sand team to pro long their career?

Just putting myself in browns shoes, if I still think I can play LT, why on earth am I going to willingly go to RT or let alone a position I've never played before like guard.

If you're taking Matthews it's because you think he's the best guy to help you win games right now. Maybe you like the fact that he can be LT insurance, but I'm not buying the plan of moving him to LT and brown to RT in 2 or 3 years. That doesn't seem very realistic to me.

The more likely scenario is that brown is released when his play tapers off and if Matthews has played well enough at RT then you'd consider giving him the chance to fill that void.
 
Rey said:
If Matthews is what he's supposed to be, then I really don't have any issues with taking him in a vaccum.

But I would not take him with any plans of moving him to LT in 5 years. That's half a decade away. Lots of things can change.

I remember people were saying we were set with brown and Winston at tackle for years to come.
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Scared the sht out of me when Brown got banged up in KC.

I wouldn't plan on moving him in 5 years, I'd take him as the best player available & play it by ear. 4 years from now, if he's still playing RT & Brown is playing like we expect.... trade one or the other.

If Matthews becomes the better option for LT (most likely due to injury) at anytime before then, make the switch.

But we've got to do something about that RT spot, & two elite tackles would make it easier for Keenum to succeed (since we're passing on a first round QB) & help the run game.

If Kubiak continues as our coach in 2014. If we decide not to draft a QB in the first... if Matthews is still there when we pick... it's a no brainer.
 
Rey said:
I have only about 15 years of real nfl watching experience. How many premier LT's switch to other positions with the sand team to pro long their career?
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This is why I said not to force the switch on an arbitrary schedule and instead wait for the decline to be noticeable.
 
Personally, I don't like the technique that I see from our OL at times. Especially newton. But the entire group seems to not be very technically sound. That's just my opinion. I don't believe that the talent on the OL is that bad. Really, there is no reason newton should be as bad as he is. Other than maybe injury...but his technique as a tackle out there on the edge is cringeworthy. I don't understand how the coaches can look at film and not be all over this guy...this group as a whole. It's like sometimes they don't do the small things that matter a lot.

But newton should not be this bad.

I say this to say this...we have invested a good amount into the OL. I believe more than any other position group, especially in this scheme, that is the group that can be coached up the most. But we have like 5 decent draft picks there, some lower round picks, some money tied up at center.

I think if you make this pick Matthews has to be really special.
 
Rey said:
Personally, I don't like the technique that I see from our OL at times. Especially newton. But the entire group seems to not be very technically sound. That's just my opinion. I don't believe that the talent on the OL is that bad. Really, there is no reason newton should be as bad as he is. Other than maybe injury...but his technique as a tackle out there on the edge is cringeworthy. I don't understand how the coaches can look at film and not be all over this guy...this group as a whole. It's like sometimes they don't do the small things that matter a lot.

But newton should not be this bad.

I say this to say this...we have invested a good amount into the OL. I believe more than any other position group, especially in this scheme, that is the group that can be coached up the most. But we have like 5 decent draft picks there, some lower round picks, some money tied up at center.

I think if you make this pick Matthews has to be really special.
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Matthews is really special.

Clowney is too, if both of them are there I dont know which one I would pick. Matthews is the safest pick in this daft. Clowney has the most upside. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
Matthews is really special.

Clowney is too, if both of them are there I dont know which one I would pick. Matthews is the safest pick in this daft. Clowney has the most upside. IMHO
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ClowneyHitLarge.gif


I'd be tempted to see what Wade would do with him, but that is even more redundant than Brown & Matthews. I would think Wade would want to use him like Jj... IF Clowney were to take Antonio's spot that would allow Wade to keep Jj on the defensive left side, & if the TE motions to the right, they could just shift right instead of Jj & Antonio having to switch spots.

I can see that "theoretically" helping the OLBs, but Antonio's been playing as well as you could expect in 2011 & 2012 & the OLBs still can't find the QB, so I don't know.

OL, we've got to do something. Newton, Brennan... how optimistic are you in these two?

Then there's Wade Smith. We've got Quiz & Ben Jones... eye-yie-yie
 
infantrycak said:
I think you are overly concerned on both your flaws. Flipping sides is not at all unusual for an OT. Two of Brown's college seasons were spent at RT so the perspective is not new to him. Brown's cap hit does not go up substantially after a large bump he will get next season. At the height of his contract he will still be under the 2013 franchise tag number of $9,828,000. His contract is not back end loaded on the cap and is not a burdensome contract for someone of his caliber. 33 years is not time for the retirement home for many OLmen.
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I'm not saying that he couldn't handle the flip, just that it wouldn't necessarily be easier on him, handling the right side, thus extending his career like BB alluded to. Most teams rush the QB hard from both sides, the right side isn't necessarily any easier than the left side. If DB's mobility slowed with age then he might benefit from a move to LG instead of RT. All of this is years away though. I really like the idea of having 2 stud OT's, it's long overdue to improve our O-line, but I also think that there's better value to be had with a trade down and getting Erving or Kouandjio in the mid 1st and getting extra picks in the process.
 
i'm worried we might almost have to lose out to get matthews. going through the last several drafts, the top offensive tackle is coming off the board fast. if trend continues, we'd probably have to pick 3rd to get the top tackle unless this QB heavy draft goes that direction right off the bat. here's the first offensive tackle selected as well as number of tackles taken in the top 10. only once in the last 8 years has the top guy been taken later than the 4th overall pick. i know every year is different, but teams arent letting offensive linemen slide past them.

2013 - 1st (3)
2012 - 4th (1)
2011 - 9th (1)
2010 - 4th (2)
2009 - 2nd (3)
2008 - 1st (1)
2007 - 3rd (2)
2006 - 4th (1)
 
Scooter said:
i'm worried we might almost have to lose out to get matthews. going through the last several drafts, the top offensive tackle is coming off the board fast. if trend continues, we'd probably have to pick 3rd to get the top tackle unless this QB heavy draft goes that direction right off the bat. here's the first offensive tackle selected as well as number of tackles taken in the top 10. only once in the last 8 years has the top guy been taken later than the 4th overall pick. i know every year is different, but teams arent letting offensive linemen slide past them.

2013 - 1st (3)
2012 - 4th (1)
2011 - 9th (1)
2010 - 4th (2)
2009 - 2nd (3)
2008 - 1st (1)
2007 - 3rd (2)
2006 - 4th (1)
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If they weren't able to land Matthews , there are two other high quality OT's in Lewan and Irving. I wouldn't take either in the top 5 but would at ~8-10 , so if you could engineer a trade down to that area .... That likely gives you three picks among the top 60 players.
 
My problem with Clowney is that he seems to play when he feels like it otherwise he doesn't care. His attitude could change with laders like AJ and JJ Watt but I don't want to take that risk.

I understand the Matthews love because of his father and the fact that he played locally with Elkins HOWEVER

How about Taylor Lewan?

He's a monster (6'8" 300-ish lb.) and a road grader and plays with aggression and is a loyal football stud (came back for his Senior year). He's not as refined as Matthew but has a ton of potential and can improve in his pass-blocking skills.
 
I'm not sure why you guys are equating playing with bone spurs or being schemed against to not playing with effort.

EDIT: I wouldn't mind a guy like Lewan, though I reiterate that we should get a RT only if we're trading down. I'd rather get a RT and extra picks than blow a top five (three?) pick at that position when the defensive talent is there.
 
Texan4Ever said:
My problem with Clowney is that he seems to play when he feels like it otherwise he doesn't care. His attitude could change with laders like AJ and JJ Watt but I don't want to take that risk.

I understand the Matthews love because of his father and the fact that he played locally with Elkins HOWEVER

How about Taylor Lewan?

He's a monster (6'8" 300-ish lb.) and a road grader and plays with aggression and is a loyal football stud (came back for his Senior year). He's not as refined as Matthew but has a ton of potential and can improve in his pass-blocking skills.
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Corrosion said:
If they weren't able to land Matthews , there are two other high quality OT's in Lewan and Irving. I wouldn't take either in the top 5 but would at ~8-10 , so if you could engineer a trade down to that area .... That likely gives you three picks among the top 60 players.
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:kitten:
 
ROT is no longer a luxury in my mind.

A. We get killed from the right side of the line more often than not. Teams put good pass rushers on both sides of the line or move their best guy over.

B. Case prefers to scramble towards his right. If we stick with Keenum this becomes an important consideration

C. Our running game towards the right side has been horrible 2 seasons in a row.

It's a new age of NFL offense, all kinds of old theories are out the window.
 
The1ApplePie said:
I like Matthews, but RT seems almost like a luxury pick when the two biggest holes are QB and outside pass rusher
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And just try to image his name is not Matthews, but instead Smith or Jones, and he probably won't be quite so appealing to you.
Looks like we are least top 10, maybe top 5 or higher in Aprils Draft, way too much to use on a RT.
 
Brandon420tx said:
ROT is no longer a luxury in my mind.

A. We get killed from the right side of the line more often than not. Teams put good pass rushers on both sides of the line or move their best guy over.

B. Case prefers to scramble towards his right. If we stick with Keenum this becomes an important consideration

C. Our running game towards the right side has been horrible 2 seasons in a row.

It's a new age of NFL offense, all kinds of old theories are out the window.
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Considering that he was pulled yesterday, I kind of think we know the organization's outlook on Keenum.

If you want a QB, you have to get them in the first round
 
I honestly don't care about his name or his family. I don't even care if we draft him. There are 3-4 candidates for a solid RT in this draft. However leaving it till end of the 3rd or later will more than likely not upgrade the position for next season (maybe some seasons after that).

We were ahead by 3 when Keenum was pulled. Just throwing that out there. Not advocating holding off on a QB either. I can live with DE, ILB, RT or QB early
 
Brandon420tx said:
I honestly don't care about his name or his family. I don't even care if we draft him. There are 3-4 candidates for a solid RT in this draft. However leaving it till end of the 3rd or later will more than likely not upgrade the position for next season (maybe some seasons after that).

We were ahead by 3 when Keenum was pulled. Just throwing that out there. Not advocating holding off on a QB either. I can live with DE, ILB, RT or QB early
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I like the mock Texian has been throwing out, wherein we draft Manziel (or any high QB and whether at our natural position or after trading down) and then an RT in round 2. Maybe even trade down followed by a trade up into the late first to double dip.
 
The only way you consider RT is if keenum is the guy or can be the guy. Otherwise, you're going QB.
 
Trades in first round are interesting but if that is your position, how about explaining the trade you think will work? Name the team and what you think a realistic trade down would be. Come on, challenge yourself.
 
badboy said:
Trades in first round are interesting but if that is your position, how about explaining the trade you think will work? Name the team and what you think a realistic trade down would be. Come on, challenge yourself.
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Teams that need a left tackle more than we need a 1st-round right tackle? Pittsburgh or San Diego alone may want in on Matthews or Lewan, Tennessee may decide to end the Locker experiment and grab a quarterback, etc. Trading down with Pittsburgh, assuming things stay as they are, could mean going from 3 to only 8, and could mean as much as another first or second next year in addition to other picks.
 
Texan4Ever said:
My problem with Clowney is that he seems to play when he feels like it otherwise he doesn't care. His attitude could change with laders like AJ and JJ Watt but I don't want to take that risk.

I understand the Matthews love because of his father and the fact that he played locally with Elkins HOWEVER

How about Taylor Lewan?

He's a monster (6'8" 300-ish lb.) and a road grader and plays with aggression and is a loyal football stud (came back for his Senior year). He's not as refined as Matthew but has a ton of potential and can improve in his pass-blocking skills.
Click to expand...

With Lewan you get a giant animal with a nasty demeanor, but you also get a guy who will take cheap shots and commit stupid dead ball infractions. A couple of games this season I have been embarrassed watching his antics.

But in response to the OP, I think you have to take your QB first then start filling gaps. Also I am in the mindset that with Brown, B. Williams, Qberry and some depth that tackle is low on the draft wish list. After QB I would rather upgrade LG and focus on defense. Maybe take another low round shot on a tackle.

I think we are going to see a huge turnover of this roster this coming season so projecting need is almost impossible.
 
bhsman said:
Teams that need a left tackle more than we need a 1st-round right tackle? Pittsburgh or San Diego alone may want in on Matthews or Lewan, Tennessee may decide to end the Locker experiment and grab a quarterback, etc. Trading down with Pittsburgh, assuming things stay as they are, could mean going from 3 to only 8, and could mean as much as another first or second next year in addition to other picks.
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Why trade up for Matthews if Lewan or Kouandijo or Irving or Richardson are almost as good as others have posted? Can't see either of those teams giving up much when they can sit tight and get a decent Olineman. Chargers could get a very good OG staying put.

Titans? Maybe but not sure if we'd help them get better unless it is a huge offer.
 
badboy said:
Why trade up for Matthews if Lewan or Kouandijo or Irving or Richardson are almost as good as others have posted? Can't see either of those teams giving up much when they can sit tight and get a decent Olineman. Chargers could get a very good OG staying put.

Titans? Maybe but not sure if we'd help them get better unless it is a huge offer.
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I don't think the way our season is going we'll have to trade up for him. It's likely that the 2-3 teams in front of us will be looking to draft QB or defense (i.e. Clowney) before tackle.
 
htownfan32 said:
I don't think the way our season is going we'll have to trade up for him. It's likely that the 2-3 teams in front of us will be looking to draft QB or defense (i.e. Clowney) before tackle.
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You seemigly are unaware of the back & forth BHSman & I are having. His position is we could trade out of top 5 for a similar player to Matthews. I think that could be great but I questioned who would trade up to take our pick.
 
We have over a month left in the season. I know my mind is going to change plenty between now and the draft as we get more info to analyze.
 
badboy said:
Sure but there has to be some reason to look forward to.
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I like reading all the comments. Gives me something to think about other than kubiak and Schaub. I'm pretty sure they'll be gone next year anyways so I really don't even care about them anymore.

So yeah....you are right. The draft is definitely something to look forward to and think about.
 
badboy said:
Why trade up for Matthews if Lewan or Kouandijo or Irving or Richardson are almost as good as others have posted? Can't see either of those teams giving up much when they can sit tight and get a decent Olineman. Chargers could get a very good OG staying put.
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If they're so interchangeable, why is half this thread at half-mast over drafting a right tackle at 3rd-5th overall?
 
badboy said:
You seemigly are unaware of the back & forth BHSman & I are having. His position is we could trade out of top 5 for a similar player to Matthews. I think that could be great but I questioned who would trade up to take our pick.
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Whoops. Missed out on the context there.

Well, heavily dependent on the Ben Roethlisberger situation in Pittsburgh, if he is traded, they might be looking to trade up. They may be looking to trade up regardless to get Jake Matthews and protect their QB. That's a very slim possibility.

Cleveland has an extra 1st. Perhaps we could trade for theirs, and a second on top of that. They'd have our first and the one they got from Indy. However Cleveland's first might be further back than we really want.
 
bhsman said:
If they're so interchangeable, why is half this thread at half-mast over drafting a right tackle at 3rd-5th overall?
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Good question and has been topic of conversation during years I have been on this MB. It is the "value" thing. It is known that usually certain positions can be drafted in other rounds or at least may be drafted lower in specific round. I follow that to some extent but must realize that those other players may not be there. Often posters make comments like you can draft a right tackle later, but then say they do not watch college games or know little about those other players. How is that plausible? For example, I have watched Kouandijo, Richardson, Erving and Collins a lot; none are as good as Matthews. It is strictly opinion if you take Matthews or settle for a lesser talent and perhaps get extra draft pick. I am awaiting responses from my 3 Amigos partners on a trade down scenario I suggested.

My "philosophy" is if you want a player to fill a high priority need, why be concerned that you might "reach"? The fun of mocks is not saying take a tacke or QB in first but rather getting the best total mock value rather than just one or two picks.

To answer your question, Matthews and the other guys are not interchangeable, but is a particular team able to get a solid RT rather than trading up and spending more to get a franchise RT that will also be a franchise LT. For me I hold Matthews unless an overwhelming trade is offered.
 
htownfan32 said:
Whoops. Missed out on the context there.

Well, heavily dependent on the Ben Roethlisberger situation in Pittsburgh, if he is traded, they might be looking to trade up. They may be looking to trade up regardless to get Jake Matthews and protect their QB. That's a very slim possibility.

Cleveland has an extra 1st. Perhaps we could trade for theirs, and a second on top of that. They'd have our first and the one they got from Indy. However Cleveland's first might be further back than we really want.
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Cooking dinner now but will try to pm you a possible trade scenario I am thinking of for your opinion.
 
I don't like the idea of drafting a RT high. However, drafting a franchise LT and playing him at RT until Duane Brown's contract is up is entirely different. I wouldn't have a problem taking Matthews in the top 5 and then giving him a big contract and moving him to LT when Brown's deal is up.
 
WolverineFan said:
I don't like the idea of drafting a RT high. However, drafting a franchise LT and playing him at RT until Duane Brown's contract is up is entirely different. I wouldn't have a problem taking Matthews in the top 5 and then giving him a big contract and moving him to LT when Brown's deal is up.
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What kinda prospect is Baylor's Richardson ? Im all for trying to build a line like the saints had with Evans and Nicks . I think Brooks can be one of those guys so they're half way there .
 
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