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In support of Case...

jaayteetx

All Pro
Its taken me awhile to come to this but I can no longer see a light at the end of the Matt Schaub tunnel. I am endorsing change in the form of Case Keenum, who seems to be the only QB on the roster who has any chance of being a true game changer. In that spirit, I have now changed my avatar to reflect Case's alma mater, who is with me?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I'm a coog so you know i'm with you... I'm just guarding against homerism. I saw him play many many times at U of H....i just want him to earn the job and be given a real shot..not some last ditch effort to try to save this season.

As it stands now, i feel if he gets in & doesn't perform well or just mediocore, he'll be written off by most here & the staff as well come next offseason and you likely won't hear from him again...at least here.

Let him get in late in the season & gain some confidence so going into the next off-season he comes in pretty much as the incumbent. Let him compete with a 1st round talent...if he wins, he wins & he gets a real shot to lead this franchise...if not well.
 

jaayteetx

All Pro
I'm a coog so you know i'm with you... I'm just guarding against homerism. I saw him play many many times at U of H....i just want him to earn the job and be given a real shot..not some last ditch effort to try to save this season.

As it stands now, i feel if he gets in & doesn't perform well or just mediocore, he'll be written off by most here & the staff as well come next offseason and you likely won't hear from him again...at least here.

Let him get in late in the season & gain some confidence so going into the next off-season he comes in pretty much as the incumbent. Let him compete with a 1st round talent...if he wins, he wins & he gets a real shot to lead this franchise...if not well.
No time like the present. With today's rules designed for more offense and protecting qbs, no since in sheltering young qbs anymore. Schaub doesn't have "it" anymore and TJ doesn't appear to be a game changer so lets see what we got with Case.
 

HTown2ATX

TexansMetalhead
I don't know if this makes me some "Keenum Truther" or whatever Montrose-esque term people want to assign, but yeah, I want to see Keenum over Yates and here is my reasoning;

Schaub is FUBAR'd and IMO, neither Yates or Keenum THIS season will lead the Texans to the promised land. That said, I already know what Yates has, it's a Schaub 2.0 without the picks Schaub has had this season for the most part.

With Keenum, he is a total enigma as far as what he can do and is mobile and has the guts to "stand tall" in the pocket and not go fetal and sling it around.

Now, let's re-read what I just said for those that clearly won't read what I just said and knee jerk all over themselves about daring to think Keenum should get a shot.....IMO the season is shot if Schaub doesn't turn it around, we have seen the Yates act which is similar to Schaub, so let's give the kid a chance in what would be a wasted season anyway. Will he be the savior, doubt it, but let's find out.
 

cstyle42

Rookie
I'm a coog so you know i'm with you... I'm just guarding against homerism. I saw him play many many times at U of H....i just want him to earn the job and be given a real shot..not some last ditch effort to try to save this season.

As it stands now, i feel if he gets in & doesn't perform well or just mediocore, he'll be written off by most here & the staff as well come next offseason and you likely won't hear from him again...at least here.

Let him get in late in the season & gain some confidence so going into the next off-season he comes in pretty much as the incumbent. Let him compete with a 1st round talent...if he wins, he wins & he gets a real shot to lead this franchise...if not well.
He has the most potential on the roster to be a star qb so why not?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
No time like the present. With today's rules designed for more offense and protecting qbs, no since in sheltering young qbs anymore. Schaub doesn't have "it" anymore and TJ doesn't appear to be a game changer so lets see what we got with Case.
Schaub's outta the picture.....i get that

what you're not taking into account is that most of these new age qb's who aren't being sheltered are 1st round talents.....i.e. guys that have their coaches pressed by fans & owners more often than not to mold their offenses to thier skill sets...the lone exceptions are Wilson & Kaepernick. And as much as a game changer Keenum has the potential to be, does anyone think Kubiak is gonna mold or change his offense to fully take advantage of Keenum's abilities? Nope. If he were the heir apparent to Drew Brees in that system....i'd agree with you. That's the type of system he comes from & Peyton would be sure to carry him & adapt...here with this coaching staff...nope.

Lastly, people keep saying the bolded but the new rules & the explosion of offense still aren't preventing qb's from failing at about the same clips as they were back when young guys were primarily sheltered. See Newton, Bradford....Weeden.

Apart from that....what's the rush? Rodgers sat on the bench for like 3-4 years before he got his shot..I think we all agree that it worked out okay for the Pack & Rodgers had immensely more talent than Keenum when he came out.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
Schaub's outta the picture.....i get that

what you're not taking into account is that most of these new age qb's who aren't being sheltered are 1st round talents.....i.e. guys that have their coaches pressed by fans & owners more often than not to mold their offenses to thier skill sets...the lone exceptions are Wilson & Kaepernick. And as much as a game changer Keenum has the potential to be, does anyone think Kubiak is gonna mold or change his offense to fully take advantage of Keenum's abilities? Nope. If he were the heir apparent to Drew Brees in that system....i'd agree with you. That's the type of system he comes from & Peyton would be sure to carry him & adapt...here with this coaching staff...nope.

Lastly, people keep saying the bolded but the new rules & the explosion of offense still aren't preventing qb's from failing at about the same clips as they were back when young guys were primarily sheltered. See Newton, Bradford....Weeden.

Apart from that....what's the rush? Rodgers sat on the bench for like 3-4 years before he got shot..worked out okay for the Pack.

That's real truth right there. In this offense, with this coach, Keenum is going to be asked to go out there and do his best Matt Schaub impersonation. If Gary won't give a guy he's been coaching for 8 years much room to create on the fly then you can be sure he won't give Keenum that kind of latitude.

Case might even get in the doghouse if he colors outside the lines and something bad happens as a result.
 

Vinnie

with an I E
That's real truth right there. In this offense, with this coach, Keenum is going to be asked to go out there and do his best Matt Schaub impersonation. If Gary won't give a guy he's been coaching for 8 years much room to create on the fly then you can be sure he won't give Keenum that kind of latitude.

Case might even get in the doghouse if he colors outside the lines.
I don't think this is necessarily true. I think Kubiak play calls to what he sees as Schaub's strengths. Unfortunately, Schaub is declining rapidly. He would do the same thing for Case, or even TJ for that matter. I think we saw some of that in the preseason.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I don't think this is necessarily true. I think Kubiak play calls to what he sees as Schaub's strengths. Unfortunately, Schaub is declining rapidly. He would do the same thing for Case, or even TJ for that matter. I think we saw some of that in the preseason.
People gotta stop with this...If Kubiak thought this:

we wouldn't have come out slinging the ball like we did against the best secondary in the game...what's more is he probably would've went into his conservative shell after schaub threw the 1st pick in that game..

He damn sure wouldn't have call that play he did in the SF game 3 plays into the game that led to the pick 6...he probably would've just ran it there & punted.

There's probably like 2-3 plays he might not call with Schaub that he would call with a better qb...but what makes you think he'd call those same plays with a kid making his 1st professional starts in only his 2nd year in the NFL...............the 1st on an active roster?
 

legacy_gt

Rookie
That's real truth right there. In this offense, with this coach, Keenum is going to be asked to go out there and do his best Matt Schaub impersonation. If Gary won't give a guy he's been coaching for 8 years much room to create on the fly then you can be sure he won't give Keenum that kind of latitude.

Case might even get in the doghouse if he colors outside the lines and something bad happens as a result.
I believe gary uses keenum differently. running on 4th and 1 and going for the long balls during pre-season. case has answered too.
 

ThaJokaa

True Texans Fan
I like both TJ n Case, but I don't see Kubes starting Case over TJ. If he does then why is TJ on the roster? Only way I see Case playing is if TJ stinks it up
 

silvrhand

All Pro
Case isn't even on the active roster.. Sorry wet dreams won't happen till he at least comes on the active roster.
 

TexansBull

Hall of Fame
I believe gary uses keenum differently. running on 4th and 1 and going for the long balls during pre-season. case has answered too.
I agree with this, but I am a homer.

The problem isn't that Kubiak won't or can't come up with a different game plan.

The problem is Kubiak is refusing to cut the cord to the anchor that is Matt Schaub. Classic Kubiak fashion i.e. Kris Brown, any defensive coordinator before Wade, and Marciano(sp).
 

leebigeztx

Keep it Movin!
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.
 

HTown2ATX

TexansMetalhead
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.
Problem is Matt's arm sucks too. May as well take the mobility and see what happens. Hopefully he doesn't throw 4 pick 6's in 4 games.
 

legacy_gt

Rookie
In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball.
this is a complete myth. there are many that have witnessed during preseason and practice, including the coach, that keenum's arm strength is fine. among the 3, case has a stronger arm than both tj and schaub.

you want to see a bad arm these days, look at matt. I've never seen such bad velocity and easy reads in my support for MS all these years.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.

Absolute bull****.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
The keenum bandwagon is crazy and the kubiak hate is at a all time high. I won't bring still pics like 76Texan do because he's a lot better at that than I am. I will say that if you watch the all 22 you will see matt isn't even reading coverage. He's been like this for awhile as other have pointed out with the target ratio to andre and daniels. Matt isn't even looking at hopkins or martin or anyone else not name andre or one of the slow ass te's. There are plays out thereand he refuses to make them.

In regards to the case bandwagon,I hate to say it again and again. Case does not have a nfl arm imo and what I've seen in camp. When I watched him on the sideline throwing the ball, he has no pop or velocity on the ball. Yes he's more mobile than matt,that's not saying much,but teams would play him the same way as schaub because he can't threaten the field outside the numbers. I've had this discussion before and people will bring up the preseason sideline throw to martin or jean. Good accurate throw,that was a good shot play. In the real season,teams are gonna make him drive the ball outside. Which his not capable of doing. I'm just saying.
What you're describing is part of why this offense is "qb friendly"...it doesn't require them to read defenses in the traditional sense...like you see every 1 of the top qb's do. You've seen it with every single qb we've had starting under Kubiak...

They come to the line
glance over the defense to figure out where the ball should go according to the system & what the defense shows them

They jump under center

snap the ball

No calling out the Mike lb....

no real audibling....

This is also why you rarely see Schaub hard counting & he often quick snaps...I mean when you think about it, what good does it do to hard count if you can't change the play?....even if you do see what the defense is really going to do you're pretty much stuck with Kubiak's rigid system.

The problem is defenses have figured out how to manipulate Kubiak's rigidness with his qb's in not allowing them to jump out of bad plays with something to burn the blitzing & trap coverages...So they disguise early and change up late....You see it clearly with Schaub's last 2 pick 6's...the cb's weren't worried at all about their man running deep. They knew Schaub was going there with the ball b/c they told him to go there with their pre snap look.

You say, "well, that's not all that different from how they do every qb" & you're right......it's just that much more effective against us b/c the qb's don't have any real power to audible to something that will make the defense pay severely when you're too agressive at taking the short stuff away.

Couple this with predictable play calling a noodle armed qb, bad o-line play at times & you've got disaster. This is ultimately why you see Schaub throwing short on 3rd and long so much. His pre snap read according to the system has changed after the ball has snapped, he panics & dumps the ball off....

there is no real progression in routes you should go to if your initial look isn't there...

Another thing is...Kubiak doesn't really beat defenses with formationing...like you often see manning do...where are all the bunch sets? Why not put Tate & Foster on the field at the same time? He at least did that a few times this last game.

This is why i'm not all that optimistic that things will change offensively so much with a qb change....Kubiak & his system is part of the problem too.
 

htownfan32

Hall of Fame
Absolute bull****.
Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen this as a consistent knock on Case by experts, and other than responses like the above UH or Keenum fans have never really given any proof of his arm, bad or good.

I can't recall any really deep throws in the preseason
 

GuerillaBlack

Hall of Fame
That's real truth right there. In this offense, with this coach, Keenum is going to be asked to go out there and do his best Matt Schaub impersonation. If Gary won't give a guy he's been coaching for 8 years much room to create on the fly then you can be sure he won't give Keenum that kind of latitude.

Case might even get in the doghouse if he colors outside the lines and something bad happens as a result.
Disagree. remember that qb draw Yates did at Cincy? Kubiak would never call that with Schaub, but i bet we would see it a few times with Keenum. Plus those bootlegs would start working again with a mobile qb. Case actually has a little speed on him.
 

GuerillaBlack

Hall of Fame
Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen this as a consistent knock on Case by experts, and other than responses like the above UH or Keenum fans have never really given any proof of his arm, bad or good.

I can't recall any really deep throws in the preseason
The people who watched him at UH are the ones who have seen his bombs where the ball is in the air for 50 yards, no Denver mile high air help needed like with Schaub. Go to YouTube and see some of his passes. Those "experts" are going off of the combine where he was injured.
 

htownfan32

Hall of Fame
The people who watched him at UH are the ones who have seen his bombs where the ball is in the air for 50 yards, no Denver mile high air help needed like with Schaub. Go to YouTube and see some of his passes. Those "experts" are going off of the combine where he was injured.
I looked at some of his highlights.

There were some balls underthrown and others on the money. I won't say he has a noodle arm but it's certainly average. Better than floppy MS at this point, though. His ball placement on the other hand is excellent. He has just enough arm to get it there.
 

GoCoogs

Waterboy
Not calling you out or anything, but I've seen this as a consistent knock on Case by experts, and other than responses like the above UH or Keenum fans have never really given any proof of his arm, bad or good.

I can't recall any really deep throws in the preseason
Here are some notes from the UH Pro Day:

http://blog.chron.com/sportsupdate/2012/03/quick-notes-from-houstons-pro-day/

Houston quarterback Case Keenum revealed that he suffered a strained hamstring on his second attempt at the 40-yard dash at the NFL Scouting Combine last month in Indianapolis. He said he didn’t want to make excuses, which is why he decided to still throw, but it clearly affected him.

“I strained my hamstring on the second 40,” Keenum said on Monday after his performance at UH’s pro day. “I’m not a track guy or 400-hurdler or haven’t qualified for the Olympics but I think I was trying to at that point, trying to run a 4.3. But strained my hamstring on the second 40 and it kind of put me in a funk. I went over to see the trainers and (quarterbacks) were already warming up throwing. I’m not going to make excuses and I didn’t that day. I said ‘I”m out here, I’m going to throw.’ But it definitely wasn’t me at my best.”

There were some reports questioning Keenum’s arm strength after his combine performance and he said it was important to show his true ability on Monday for scouts.

“It was very important for me to show these guys that (at the combine), that was not me,” Keenum said. “I have very high standards for myself and I believe in my abilities tremendously and I think I wasn’t at my best. I wanted to go out there and compete. That’s what I do. That’s where you can get into the whole touchy situation of ‘Do you throw or not throw.’ But my whole mindset has been, ‘I am who I am, so let’s do it, let’s roll.’”

On Monday, he didn’t show any issues throwing. He threw the ball with good velocity, particularly on the out routes, and he showed the ability to get it downfield. I had one scout tell me that he felt Keenum had “above average” arm strength.

Keenum’s assessment of his day:

“We were a little off on a few routes and not quite as accurate as I’d like to be,” he said. “As far as pushing the ball down the field, I thought the ball was coming out of my hands fairly well….I thought we got a few good throws in there. Not my best day, but I’m a perfectionist and I always feel like I can do better.”

Keenum did the 20-yard short shuttle in 4.31 seconds, the three-cone drill in 6.89 seconds and bench-pressed 225 pounds 18 times.
 

Premier

Rookie
The people who watched him at UH are the ones who have seen his bombs where the ball is in the air for 50 yards, no Denver mile high air help needed like with Schaub. Go to YouTube and see some of his passes. Those "experts" are going off of the combine where he was injured.
when i think of a big arm, i think about those 10 yard curls and coverage beaters in the redzone from x & goal. what pro qb cant hurl it 50 yards? can he deliver the ball without a db jumping all over his throws in the middle of the field. the foootage on youtbe is him going deep with no dbs in sight.. would like to see footage of him droppin back and delivering the football.
 

legacy_gt

Rookie
don't matter what all the case keenum skeptics think. at this point, we're all curious and unless he has a shot, we won't know.

case is and will always be a winner until proven otherwise.

I'd bet big money Texans win if Case plays this Sunday. And if he played the 49er's, you'd see more than 3 pts. Guaranteed.
 

The1ApplePie

Hall of Fame
Kubiak and Smith should troll the fanbase and just release Keenum for the lulz.
Maybe Kubes learned from his buddy Elway about starting a joke QB.

I seriously think Elway started Tebow to

1. Shut the fans up and show them he sucked
2. Tank games to get a QB in the draft
3. Make some easy money for the shoddy product.

Instead Tebow pulled the classic "Springtime for Hitler" and started winning games.
 

legacy_gt

Rookie
I said he isn't a starter in the league and I still believe that.
fair enough if that's your opinion, but I do remember reading that case would never amount to anything in the NFL.

We'll wait and see. Do you want Schaub to start? or TJ then?
 

Come On Breh

Waterboy
I honestly believe he and yates have about the same skill set...Yates' arm is stronger too imo..
nah, yates doesnt have keenum's feel for the QB position. Yates has many deer in the headlights looks and locks on to one receiver far too often. Yates also struggles in the poise department. Complete opposite of Case who has all the intangibles in his favor. Yates does have a slightly stronger arm but case is much accurate than yates and has better ball placement.
 

drs23

Veteran
I've been in the Keenum Koolaid drinking club for a while now. :doot:
Thorn, I see that being an empty cup at this point. We've gotta wait on Schaub to flame out (done in our eyes, not GK's) then Yates who's only done mop up to date before Keenum would ever be afforded a chance.

Unless Unc Bob has a closed door meeting and we all know he doesn't meddle.

Oh well....
 

CretorFrigg

Fire Rick Smith
nah, yates doesnt have keenum's feel for the QB position. Yates has many deer in the headlights looks and locks on to one receiver far too often. Yates also struggles in the poise department. Complete opposite of Case who has all the intangibles in his favor.
I don't care who starts as long it's not Schaub. I'd like to see Yates or Keenum on the field as our starting QB, not because I think they're the next Tom Brady, but because they're a better option than Matt Schaub.

With that said, there's no way you can definitively say Keenum has all the intangibles, especially since he went undrafted. If Keenum is the world beater everyone's making him out to be, he would've been a first round draft pick. He might be a diamond in the rough, but it's amazing how you are making him out to be the Texan's savior. He's got some question marks if he starts, and so does Yates.

I would love to see what Keenum has to offer for us. I hope all of you are right, and that he's our next Arian Foster. I'm just tired of seeing Schaub play and fail miserably. I'm tired of 3rd and long and Matt throwing underneath for a gain of 2. I'm sick of Matt's lack of arm strength, mobility, and good decision making. It's pretty difficult to downgrade from there.
 

Come On Breh

Waterboy
I don't care who starts as long it's not Schaub. I'd like to see Yates or Keenum on the field as our starting QB, not because I think they're the next Tom Brady, but because they're a better option than Matt Schaub.

With that said, there's no way you can definitively say Keenum has all the intangibles, especially since he went undrafted. If Keenum is the world beater everyone's making him out to be, he would've been a first round draft pick. He might be a diamond in the rough, but it's amazing how you are making him out to be the Texan's savior. He's got some question marks if he starts, and so does Yates.

With that said, I would love to see what Keenum has to offer for us. I hope all of you are right, and that he's our next Arian Foster. I'm just tired of seeing Schaub play and fail miserably. I'm tired of 3rd and long and Matt throwing underneath for a gain of 2. I'm sick of Matt's lack of arm strength, mobility, and good decision making. It's pretty difficult to downgrade from there.
we are not looking for a savior, we are looking for somebody to get an honest shot to be better than schaub, or what schaub is currently showing right now.

what i want to happen is for yates and keenum to split first team reps in practice vs the 1st team defense and the winner gets the starting job considering the back up battle was close in the preseason (kubiaks own words) and that they were pushing schaub.

That at least warrants a chance to be given and schaub's play warrants that to happen.

How about making them earn the starting gig instead of just handing it right back to the status quo that is destroying our season.

Its not a unreasonable request. Its the righteous request.
 
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