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The problem with this team

Texanmike02

Texanmike02

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Actually, the entire team lost this game. The defense gave up 30 yards in over time on penalties. Game changing penalties.

Schaub threw a bonheaded pass that was returned for 6.

The offensive line (Wade Smith, I'm looking at YOU) was dominated in the second half.

The receivers had several drops (Foster with one, Keyshawn Martin, even AJ had a drop he should have caught).

This team is what it is. Undisciplined. It reminds me of the cowboys several years ago. You can blame the QB, you can blame special teams, you can blame the defense but I honestly think this starts and stops with the HC. I don't know what happened but we completely lack discipline. I've been behind Kubiak most of the time but this is getting ridiculous.

I still believe that Schaub is the QB we need but Kubiak needs to man up and bench him for a half. There was a time when we had a young upstart RB that was clearly the best on our team, he missed a meeting and he was benched for the first half.

I remember when the Ninja used to get offsides penalties, I was always ok with them because they were in the field of play and it was him trying to get an advantage but the penalties that we saw today, the horse collar and the body slam are both dead ball fouls. Either wade needs to sit somebody or Kubiak needs to do it.

The focus will be on Schaub's play but he isn't the real problem. His mistake comes in the field of play and it isn't a matter of discipline (you could make the argument that it is) but the other two penalties? They are AFTER you already made the play.

If you will sit Tate for a turnover then you should be sitting your defenders getting 15 yard personal fouls AFTER the play is over. At this point, I would be ok with sitting Schaub for a game. Somebody please send the message that lack of discipline is not acceptable. This team is too talented to be plagued with cowboys type mistakes. That is what we do every game. Fix it Gary or Bob needs to find someone who will.

Mike
 
Defense gives up 13 points and we have another thread saying they are part of the problem....get real...in what world do defenses pitch shut outs every week? They dont....they will give up drives, points and get penalties sometimes, but they are clearly holding up their end of the bargain on this team....

Accusing anyone other than the offense (mainly Schaub) is naive and being a homer...

oh on another note, Trindon just ran ANOTHER pr back....good thing we got rid of him :wadepalm:
 
It's Matt Schaub MAAAAAATTTTTT SCCCHHAAUUUB!!!!! How many times is he going to have to screw up for everyone to see???
 
Other people besides Schaub did make bonehead plays, but it starts with him. Three games in a row with a pick six- totally unacceptable. He needs to be benched.

Even thought the D played well most of the game, they made too many mistakes. That penalty by Kareem was inexcusable.

When a team with as supposedly as much talent as the Texans have is up 17 points at half at home, they should never lose. The fact they did says a lot about the coaching as well.
 
MEGA SWATT said:
We go nowhere with ms
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ILD_Race_to_Stop_MS_logo_300_x_225.jpg
 
Texanmike02 said:
Actually, the entire team lost this game. The defense gave up 30 yards in over time on penalties. Game changing penalties.

Schaub threw a bonheaded pass that was returned for 6.

The offensive line (Wade Smith, I'm looking at YOU) was dominated in the second half.

The receivers had several drops (Foster with one, Keyshawn Martin, even AJ had a drop he should have caught).

This team is what it is. Undisciplined. It reminds me of the cowboys several years ago. You can blame the QB, you can blame special teams, you can blame the defense but I honestly think this starts and stops with the HC. I don't know what happened but we completely lack discipline. I've been behind Kubiak most of the time but this is getting ridiculous.

I still believe that Schaub is the QB we need but Kubiak needs to man up and bench him for a half. There was a time when we had a young upstart RB that was clearly the best on our team, he missed a meeting and he was benched for the first half.

I remember when the Ninja used to get offsides penalties, I was always ok with them because they were in the field of play and it was him trying to get an advantage but the penalties that we saw today, the horse collar and the body slam are both dead ball fouls. Either wade needs to sit somebody or Kubiak needs to do it.

The focus will be on Schaub's play but he isn't the real problem. His mistake comes in the field of play and it isn't a matter of discipline (you could make the argument that it is) but the other two penalties? They are AFTER you already made the play.

If you will sit Tate for a turnover then you should be sitting your defenders getting 15 yard personal fouls AFTER the play is over. At this point, I would be ok with sitting Schaub for a game. Somebody please send the message that lack of discipline is not acceptable. This team is too talented to be plagued with cowboys type mistakes. That is what we do every game. Fix it Gary or Bob needs to find someone who will.

Mike
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Pretty sure Schaub put the Defense in that position to make them penalties. We should of never been in that position but "why" were we ? Who let them tie the game ? Not Kubiak or the defense.
 
He wants to sit defenders for penalties, but says nothing about the qb that has spotted the other team points in every game this year.
 
DX-TEX said:
But he is right. You are being a damn apologist. I can respect fandom but you have too see what EVRYONE else sees!
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No, I'm not an emotional fan and I'm looking beyond the obvious.

Schaub's play is evidence of a lack of discipline. So is Tate's. So was KJ's. So was Sharpton's. It doesn't matter who you bring in here, if you don't fix the lack of discipline on this team you won't win anything. Look at the last decade of Cowpies play. Nobody can argue that they haven't had the talent to be a factor in January but they have played undisciplined football basically since Jimmy Johnson left.

This team displays the same tendencies. On our last offensive drive look at the sack that Schaub took at the 45. Smith gets sloppy with his footwork, extends his arms and gets rolled. Look at KJ. Great play. Lacks discipline. Sharpton? That play is a lack of discipline. Tate fumbling? Lack of discipline.

This team lacks accountability and discipline. Schaubs problems aren't that he is incapable, they are that he isn't disciplined. The OL isn't disciplined either. The defense has killed us multiple times with boneheaded penalties.

I get it that you want somebodies head but I'm telling you that if you bring in any QB that isn't elite (ie not named Peyton, Brady Aaron) and put them into the culture of this team you don't get anything different than you have right now.

Call me an apologist, I don't care. I will never tell you that this team is a SB caliber team and I will probably never tell you that you can put it all on one person. If someone is looking for the easy "analysis" or the head to put on a pole, I probably won't give them that. I want to know why we are losing, not find someone to ***** about. I don't care about names, I don't care about numbers I want to get to the root cause. The common denominators in all of the negative plays was discipline or lack thereof.

I don't want to see what "everyone else sees" because that's usually wrong.

Mike
 
Texanmike02 said:
No, I'm not an emotional fan and I'm looking beyond the obvious.

Schaub's play is evidence of a lack of discipline. So is Tate's. So was KJ's. So was Sharpton's. It doesn't matter who you bring in here, if you don't fix the lack of discipline on this team you won't win anything. Look at the last decade of Cowpies play. Nobody can argue that they haven't had the talent to be a factor in January but they have played undisciplined football basically since Jimmy Johnson left.

This team displays the same tendencies. On our last offensive drive look at the sack that Schaub took at the 45. Smith gets sloppy with his footwork, extends his arms and gets rolled. Look at KJ. Great play. Lacks discipline. Sharpton? That play is a lack of discipline. Tate fumbling? Lack of discipline.

This team lacks accountability and discipline. Schaubs problems aren't that he is incapable, they are that he isn't disciplined. The OL isn't disciplined either. The defense has killed us multiple times with boneheaded penalties.

I get it that you want somebodies head but I'm telling you that if you bring in any QB that isn't elite (ie not named Peyton, Brady Aaron) and put them into the culture of this team you don't get anything different than you have right now.

Call me an apologist, I don't care. I will never tell you that this team is a SB caliber team and I will probably never tell you that you can put it all on one person. If someone is looking for the easy "analysis" or the head to put on a pole, I probably won't give them that. I want to know why we are losing, not find someone to ***** about. I don't care about names, I don't care about numbers I want to get to the root cause. The common denominators in all of the negative plays was discipline or lack thereof.

I don't want to see what "everyone else sees" because that's usually wrong.

Mike
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If discipline is the main problem with this team, then Schaub is the least discilined of all, and thats not good since he is the "leader" right.
 
EllisUnit said:
If discipline is the main problem with this team, then Schaub is the least discilined of all, and thats not good since he is the "leader" right.
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The leader needs to be the HC. Honestly if you change the QB I don't think you change the situation. The problem is the culture of the locker room. I don't think you sit Schaub because he's "Not the answer", you sit him because "unacceptable play has consequences".

Schaub isn't the least disciplined player on the team, the entire team is undisciplined.

Mike
 
Texanmike02 said:
This team is what it is. Undisciplined. It reminds me of the cowboys several years ago. You can blame the QB, you can blame special teams, you can blame the defense but I honestly think this starts and stops with the HC. I don't know what happened but we completely lack discipline. I've been behind Kubiak most of the time but this is getting ridiculous.

Mike
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I believe Kubiak blamed himself last season for the team playing so "tight" last season. There was a time there in December where he kept saying he wanted the guys to play loose, to let hang out, to have fun. & I believed that was part of the "big picture" problem with this team. Every game was the biggest game in Texans history & every win was going to say something about this football team.

Now... maybe they're a little too loose. I don't know. But whatever it is, they need to figure it out.
 
thunderkyss said:
He's thrown 6 interceptions in 4 games.
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Which is terrible! His three pick-6's were game changing plays. Against Tennessee the pick-6 came late in the 4th Quarter down 1. The pick last week in Baltimore was the start to the tide turning. This week was the worst one. Throwing a prayer when you have a seven point lead is unacceptable. He should have ate the ball and taken the sack. Let the defense win the game...
 
Texanmike02 said:
Actually, the entire team lost this game. The defense gave up 30 yards in over time on penalties. Game changing penalties.

Schaub threw a bonheaded pass that was returned for 6.

The offensive line (Wade Smith, I'm looking at YOU) was dominated in the second half.

The receivers had several drops (Foster with one, Keyshawn Martin, even AJ had a drop he should have caught).

This team is what it is. Undisciplined. It reminds me of the cowboys several years ago. You can blame the QB, you can blame special teams, you can blame the defense but I honestly think this starts and stops with the HC. I don't know what happened but we completely lack discipline. I've been behind Kubiak most of the time but this is getting ridiculous.

I still believe that Schaub is the QB we need but Kubiak needs to man up and bench him for a half. There was a time when we had a young upstart RB that was clearly the best on our team, he missed a meeting and he was benched for the first half.

I remember when the Ninja used to get offsides penalties, I was always ok with them because they were in the field of play and it was him trying to get an advantage but the penalties that we saw today, the horse collar and the body slam are both dead ball fouls. Either wade needs to sit somebody or Kubiak needs to do it.

The focus will be on Schaub's play but he isn't the real problem. His mistake comes in the field of play and it isn't a matter of discipline (you could make the argument that it is) but the other two penalties? They are AFTER you already made the play.

If you will sit Tate for a turnover then you should be sitting your defenders getting 15 yard personal fouls AFTER the play is over. At this point, I would be ok with sitting Schaub for a game. Somebody please send the message that lack of discipline is not acceptable. This team is too talented to be plagued with cowboys type mistakes. That is what we do every game. Fix it Gary or Bob needs to find someone who will.

Mike
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The problem with your argument is that you take Matt Schaub's mistakes and compare them with the total team mistakes. Show me ONE player who made more crucial mistakes than Matt Schaub today. Everyone makes mistakes, but Schaub makes multiple mistakes, crucial mistakes, bone headed mistakes, repetitive mistakes....
 
JCTexan said:
Which is terrible! His three pick-6's were game changing plays. Against Tennessee the pick-6 came late in the 4th Quarter down 1. The pick last week in Baltimore was the start to the tide turning. This week was the worst one. Throwing a prayer when you have a seven point lead is unacceptable. He should have ate the ball and taken the sack. Let the defense win the game...
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Agreed, put the game in the hands of the unit that has earned that trust. The defense did everything one could expect in the first half and enough in the second half to win the game. They've done that every week. Schaub keeps losing the game for the team every week. He is a cancer!!
 
Rey said:
Root cause my ass.

You're looking for a cause other than the qb.

Every team makes mistakes. Not every team had a qb throwing the other team TDs every week.
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It's not just the picks going back for TD's. It's the way he completely shuts down in the face of pressure. He can't do anything about it. He can't make the other team pay for blitzing him because he has no legs and he has no vision. As soon as the pressure gets close he does this panicky confused "thing" that either puts him on the ground like an abused dog trying to cover up or he tries to flutter the ball to somebody nowhere near the marker we need to get to or... he tries to wing it out of bounds.

When Wilson was flushed out of the pocket he made us pay. I've seen Locker do it, Rivers do it, and now Wilson ripped us a new one doing it. Even Flacco had enough pocket awareness to sidestep and buy some time.

Matt Schaub can do none of that and he's getting worse as time goes by.
 
Seegara said:
Kareem Jackson needs to be fined four hundred million dollars.
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Roger Goodell needs to be replaced for making this such a sissy league. I really don't have a problem with what Kareem did. Unlikely he heard the whistle and he was just playing till the end of the whistle. In that situation EVERY yard counts and he was driving the WR back and making sure he goes down.

It's the NFL and it's BS safety rules that made the refs call that.
 
bayoudreamn said:
Agreed, put the game in the hands of the unit that has earned that trust. The defense did everything one could expect in the first half and enough in the second half to win the game. They've done that every week. Schaub keeps losing the game for the team every week. He is a cancer!!
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No....no they haven't. This team can only play in halves. When 1 side has it going the other doesn't..... and they never play a full game....
 
How Mike is still wanting to roll with MS is beyond comprehension. This is football in 2013 - in this game and in this era it begins and ends with the QB. We don't have one.

Put Manning on this team, and we would be 4-0 and steamrolling teams with this defense. We would be wrecking shop and the AFC SB favorite by far. We might even be talking about an undefeated season. He wouldn't wait until late in the 4th to target Hopkins I can assure you. He knows how to spread the ball around and use all of his weapons. While Manning is slower than hell too, the rest of his game and especially the mental part, is so sharp that it really doesn't matter with him.

I bring up Manning because he wanted to come here. Instead, this regime tied it's stock to MS. A rising tide lifts all boats. A sinking MS sinks everyone including this regime.

It's time for a change. I might keep Rick Smith, but I would remove all coaches and try to get the new one to retain Wade Smith as DC if possible and draft or sign a different QB. And BTW, I would not elevate WS. He needs to be the DC. He sucks as a HC.
 
Hervoyel said:
When Wilson was flushed out of the pocket he made us pay. I've seen Locker do it, Rivers do it, and now Wilson ripped us a new one doing it. Even Flacco had enough pocket awareness to sidestep and buy some time.
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Wilson didn't do crap today. He had one drive that resulted in 7 points in the 4th Quarter. Other than that he didn't do anything worth mentioning all day. Tate's fumble cost us 3 points, Matt Schaub's pick-6 cost us 7. Joseph's penalty on Seattle's opening drive resulted in another 3 (that was the only positive play that drive for Seattle). Kareem Jackson's boneheaded play in OT cost Houston another 3. Wilson didn't do anything to win this game for Seattle.
 
Texanmike02 said:
The leader needs to be the HC. Honestly if you change the QB I don't think you change the situation. The problem is the culture of the locker room. I don't think you sit Schaub because he's "Not the answer", you sit him because "unacceptable play has consequences".

Schaub isn't the least disciplined player on the team, the entire team is undisciplined.

Mike
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Schaub has thrown pick six's in 3 consecutive games.. And it should be 4.

SchaubApologist
 
JCTexan said:
Wilson didn't do crap today. He had one drive that resulted in 7 points in the 4th Quarter. Other than that he didn't do anything worth mentioning all day. Tate's fumble cost us 3 points, Matt Schaub's pick-6 cost us 7. Joseph's penalty on Seattle's opening drive resulted in another 3 (that was the only positive play that drive for Seattle). Kareem Jackson's boneheaded play in OT cost Houston another 3. Wilson didn't do anything to win this game for Seattle.
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He didn't throw a pick 6
 
JCTexan said:
Wilson didn't do anything to win this game for Seattle.
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I saw him get yards out of pressure several times and each time I thought, "it must be nice to have a QB that can tuck it in and get yards under pressure." Hell, who can do ANYTHING under pressure better than Schaub, where best-case is usually an incomplete pass (when he has the presence of mind to throw it away instead of take a sack or throw a floater into coverage).

And here's what Wilson *did* do: Nothing that would cost them the game. Not like a certain QB with 10 INTs in his last 7 games, 6 INTs in 4 games this year and three straight games with a pick-six.

Most QBs can do something -- either feel the rush and sidestep it, throw on the run or beat you with their legs. Schaub fails at all three of those. Add to that too many ill-advised passes in the face of a rush and he's simply one of the worst in the league when pressured.
 
I have no problem with KJ's penalty. If he'd let Tate go and Tate ran for a touchdown, I'd have a problem with that. Tate was continuing to try to get away and KJ body slammed him.

Sharptons horse collar tackle was unfortunate. He's just trying to make a play and grabs the wrong part of the uniform.

BTW, how can either one of those be considered a dead ball play? Both were making tackles. I don't know if the whistle blew on KJ or not but Sharpton's was live. Either way, it's not like they committed stupid personal fouls by getting in a fight or taunting...ala JJo last week.

Schaub is and has been the Achilles Heel for this team. There were at least 4 plays today that almost any other QB in the league could've made something out of. Schaub either assumed the fetal position or threw the ball away. He has no pocket presence or awareness. He took a sack when all he had to do was step up in the pocket. The defender grabbed Schaub's jersey and Schaub just fell over. The man is the same size as Big Ben and the mere hint of pressure causes him to panic and do dumb stuff. The INT's speak for themselves.

I have a hard time laying much blame on a defense that was worn out because the offense couldn't mount a drive and give them a breather. They were flat gassed in the 4th but gave some dang good effort.
 
JCTexan said:
Wilson didn't do crap today. He had one drive that resulted in 7 points in the 4th Quarter. Other than that he didn't do anything worth mentioning all day. Tate's fumble cost us 3 points, Matt Schaub's pick-6 cost us 7. Joseph's penalty on Seattle's opening drive resulted in another 3 (that was the only positive play that drive for Seattle). Kareem Jackson's boneheaded play in OT cost Houston another 3. Wilson didn't do anything to win this game for Seattle.
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Wilson got important fist downs when he needed them. "Didn't do crap" was his first half capsule...but not the story of the game.
 
JCTexan said:
Wilson didn't do crap today. He had one drive that resulted in 7 points in the 4th Quarter. Other than that he didn't do anything worth mentioning all day. Tate's fumble cost us 3 points, Matt Schaub's pick-6 cost us 7. Joseph's penalty on Seattle's opening drive resulted in another 3 (that was the only positive play that drive for Seattle). Kareem Jackson's boneheaded play in OT cost Houston another 3. Wilson didn't do anything to win this game for Seattle.
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What brand of beer goggles were you wearing during the 4th quarter? Wilson practically willed them to victory by using his legs to either gain yardage or extend plays. He didn't do much in the 1st 3 quarters but he adjusted and made some very good plays. He also didn't do anything to make Seattle lose the game. When the game was tight and on the line, one QB shined and one wilted (as usual).
 
DocBar said:
I have a hard time laying much blame on a defense that was worn out because the offense couldn't mount a drive and give them a breather. They were flat gassed in the 4th but gave some dang good effort.
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The Texans defense is legit (at least with Cushing). It's hard to win games when your offense is handing the other team points (10 today).
 
the pass rush was effective today but the seahawks were missing 3 starting linemen.. the defense can be really good at times but theyre arent going to be shutdown good. the type of shutdown good you need to hide matt schaubs weaknesses.. we can go up and down all day and place blame on guys on this roster but no positions holds as much weight as the qb. thats why i think he is the weakest link. yea our line could be better, pass rush needs to be better, secondary too. our qb is a liability, were pretenders with matt schaub.. this season was wasted coming into it..
 
DocBar said:
What brand of beer goggles were you wearing during the 4th quarter? Wilson practically willed them to victory by using his legs to either gain yardage or extend plays. He didn't do much in the 1st 3 quarters but he adjusted and made some very good plays. He also didn't do anything to make Seattle lose the game. When the game was tight and on the line, one QB shined and one wilted (as usual).
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I mentioned that one drive in the 4th Quarter. Wilson didn't "will" his team to victory IMO. He wasn't even given the option to thanks to Schaub's pick-6. The Texans offense handed Seattle ten points and 6 others came because of Houston penalties (Joseph's in the 1st, Jackson's in OT).
 
JCTexan said:
I mentioned that one drive in the 4th Quarter. Wilson didn't "will" his team to victory IMO. He wasn't even given the option to thanks to Schaub's pick-6. The Texans offense handed Seattle ten points and 6 others came because of Houston penalties (Joseph's in the 1st, Jackson's in OT).
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You had the extra thick beer goggles on. Wilson's scrambling made the difference in keeping drives alive in the 4th. You do realize that the pick 6 wasn't the only TD Seattle scored, right? Wilson led them on a 98 yd TD drive.
 
DocBar said:
You had the extra thick beer goggles on. Wilson's scrambling made the difference in keeping drives alive in the 4th. You do realize that the pick 6 wasn't the only TD Seattle scored, right? Wilson led them on a 98 yd TD drive.
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Maybe I do, but outside of that one drive Wilson didn't do anything worth mentioning. The Texans offense handing Seattle ten points in the 2nd half wasn't Wilson "willing" his team to victory to me. Houston lost this game in the 2nd half. Wilson did not do enough for me to say he made Houston's defense "pay" today.
 
bayoudreamn said:
The problem with your argument is that you take Matt Schaub's mistakes and compare them with the total team mistakes. Show me ONE player who made more crucial mistakes than Matt Schaub today. Everyone makes mistakes, but Schaub makes multiple mistakes, crucial mistakes, bone headed mistakes, repetitive mistakes....
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Schaub had the ball in his hands on 54 plays and was the focus of the play. I didn't list team failures either Ilisted individual plays. If kareem gets one personal foul for every ten passes thrown his way what's worse? That or Schaubthrowing an into once every 33 plays?

Schaub is graded on every play he makes, the camera is on him. The other players aren't subject to that scrutiny. The sum total is that our team is undisciplined. It doesn'tmatter what you do. Everyone is focusing on Schaub, fine enjoy your sophomoric analysis of the oobvious, but the entire team is undisciplined. Schaubs play, like KJ and Sharpton and jjo llast week... are symptoms of a systemic problem not a problem that will be fixed by replacing any one player.

Mike
 
Texanmike02 said:
Schaub had the ball in his hands on 54 plays and was the focus of the play. I didn't list team failures either Ilisted individual plays. If kareem gets one personal foul for every ten passes thrown his way what's worse? That or Schaubthrowing an into once every 33 plays?

Schaub is graded on every play he makes, the camera is on him. The other players aren't subject to that scrutiny. The sum total is that our team is undisciplined. It doesn'tmatter what you do. Everyone is focusing on Schaub, fine enjoy your sophomoric analysis of the oobvious, but the entire team is undisciplined. Schaubs play, like KJ and Sharpton and jjo llast week... are symptoms of a systemic problem not a problem that will be fixed by replacing any one player.

Mike
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Pretty sure without the pick 6 we dont go into OT where Sharpton gets a horse coller penalty and KJ get a WWE Personal foul.
 
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