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Why aren't we trying to find a kicker?

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
So Kubiak is going to roll with this same guy who almost cost us the game last week? Clearly Kubiak is showing that he refuses to learn form previous mistakes in other seasons. He ignored all of the problems Brown was having that one year that cost the Texans games, and wouldn't work out other kickers then. Here we go again. This kicker being on our roster will end up causing us to lose a game or maybe two if we don't find someone else. This kid is green and has only proven that he can't be consistent thus far. We should have lost to the Titans last week, and wouldn't have even been in that position if it wasn't for all those missed kicks.
 

BullBlitz

Section 331
He's a rookie, (Technically) He'll be fine
That sums up Kubiak's position pretty well.

He's basically just betting that Bullock will come out of the slump, without knowing whether he will or not. It would be interesting to see how he would react if missed FGs start resulting in losses.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
He's a rookie, (Technically) He'll be fine
You just start watching football a month ago? Because if your statement suggests that any kicker entering the NFL will be fine once they get out of their "rookie stage" is extremely ignorant from a historical perspective. There is "nothing" that suggests he'll be fine once he isn't a rookie. And even if that were true, you are advocating that his struggles hurting the team "this season" would be perfectly fine because once he isn't a rookie that he'll be okay. We have already had a struggling kicker help to ruin one season on this franchise, and a struggling kicker can easily change who wins the SB.
 

Showtime100

Got JJ?
That sums up Kubiak's position pretty well.

He's basically just betting that Bullock will come out of the slump, without knowing whether he will or not. It would be interesting to see how he would react if missed FGs start resulting in losses.
Simple, he'll be gone. In the mean time he still is the best they have right now and the Texans are not willing, and I agree, to kneejerk him out of here already. I also believe he's best there is compared to what's available. Too much upside.

If Houston got rid of him he would have a job before the day is out. He's got a great leg.

If this continues in Baltimore and certainly beyond the Baltimore game I'll be ready to cut our losses and bring in George Blanda, but as of right now I think it's too early.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
That sums up Kubiak's position pretty well.

He's basically just betting that Bullock will come out of the slump, without knowing whether he will or not. It would be interesting to see how he would react if missed FGs start resulting in losses.
Obviously he doesn't, because when Brown struggled all season and did cause us to lose two games, Kubiak still never tried out other kickers. If one wants to search hard enough, we could probably find the old threads where this was debated like 4 years ago. It would be interesting to see all of the people that were defending Kubiak's lack of action then and to see if it ends up happening again.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Simple, he'll be gone. In the mean time he still is the best they have right now and the Texans are not willing, and I agree, to kneejerk him out of here already. I also believe he's best there is compared to what's available. Too much upside.

If Houston got rid of him he would have a job before the day is out. He's got a great leg.

If this continues in Baltimore and certainly beyond the Baltimore game I'll be ready to cut our losses and bring in George Blanda, but as of right now I think it's too early.
If we lost to Baltimore though because of some kick that was missed at the end of the game, that could potentially have us out of the playoffs if we were tied up with a few other teams or fighting for some wild card position. It isn't something you can just blow off. That dude missed a lot of kicks last week. It wasn't just one or two.
 

Nawzer

Alienz
Are you kidding me?! This is Gary Kubiak we're talking about. This man is so oblivious/loyal that even if one of his player's was the son of Satan he wouldn't cut him. It takes things to get really bad for him to realize something is wrong. And by something wrong I mean like a catastrophic playoff loss.
 
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Showtime100

Got JJ?
If we lost to Baltimore though because of some kick that was missed at the end of the game, that could potentially have us out of the playoffs if we were tied up with a few other teams or fighting for some wild card position. It isn't something you can just blow off. That dude missed a lot of kicks last week. It wasn't just one or two.
I'm with ya brother *fingers crossed*

I just don't know who we would get to replace him. I also wonder if the shorter kicks are giving him the heebies too.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
I'm with ya brother *fingers crossed*

I just don't know who we would get to replace him. I also wonder if the shorter kicks are giving him the heebies too.
I'd like to be wrong, but that kicker didn't just have a bad day. He had an atrocious day. He had the worst day of all time in Texans history for a kicker. And he hasn't ever proven that he "can" be consistent like Brown had at least in the past before he withered.
 

mattieuk

All Pro
I'd like to be wrong, but that kicker didn't just have a bad day. He had an atrocious day. He had the worst day of all time in Texans history for a kicker. And he hasn't ever proven that he "can" be consistent like Brown had at least in the past before he withered.
I think Bullock will get to stick around until he at least causes a lost game (probably more likely 2 or 3). I'm willing to give him slack like Kubiak is doing, as I wouldn't be comfortable on cutting him on the limited evidence that we have available. He's obviously done enough to have the job in practice, and he did deal with the pressure of a game winning field goal in week 1, and (as should most NFL kickers) has made 85-90% of his kickoffs touchbacks.

Kubiak has stood by struggling kickers before, and I don't have a huge problem with that. I think it is a hard position to change mid-season (perhaps the most difficult). Even trying out other kickers could prove to unsettle the incumbent even more, due to the sporadic, mentally demanding, high pressure nature of a kicker's game involvement. Unfortunately as a kicker a streak of missed field goals will see you out of a job at the pro level pretty quickly.

The final thing to consider is, does Kubiak want to cut another highly touted special teams player, and risk another Trindon Holliday embarrassment? Every time be bring back a return, the announcers mention for the country to listen how the Texans didn't stand behind their guy after a few weeks of the season, and how the Broncos have benefited. There is ever chance that Bullock comes out of his rookie jitter session - and due to the draft pick and time that the Texans have obviously invested in Bullock, I don't think that he'll be getting any knee-jerk release papers.

Potentially comforting fact of the day: Sebastian Janikowski missed 3 of his first 4 NFL field goal attempts, and in his entire rookie year was only asked to make 4 50+ yarders, making only 1 of them.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm with ya brother *fingers crossed*

I just don't know who we would get to replace him. I also wonder if the shorter kicks are giving him the heebies too.
Fingers crossed for me too.

Graham/Rackers/Kickalicious are available.
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
Havard Rugland is a free agent?

I'm shocked he didn't make the Lions or Packers roster.

The kid was nails in the pre-season. 3-for-3, including a 50-yarder he drilled with ease. The same distance Randy Bullock apparently can't make.
 

HouTx11

Rookie
Ok, so in a perfect world Bullock makes all 3 of his field goals, and Rob Bironas makes all of his field goal kicks. End result: Texans win the game by 6 points in regulation instead of by 6 points in OT.

To me, the real problem is: Why are the Texans only winning these games by 3 and 6 points? That is where the real problem lies.
 

AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
Probably what ever the strange reason why an unproven kicker did not have to beat out a boring veteran option during the pre-season.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Ok, so in a perfect world Bullock makes all 3 of his field goals, and Rob Bironas makes all of his field goal kicks. End result: Texans win the game by 6 points in regulation instead of by 6 points in OT.

To me, the real problem is: Why are the Texans only winning these games by 3 and 6 points? That is where the real problem lies.
NFL games are won and lost by kickers all of the time. Every week and by multiple teams. Multiple games every season are won and lost by a kicker. SB's are won and lost by a kicker a lot. No, it is a BIG DEAL. Whether you're killing teams now or not, if you have a very shaky inconsistent kicker that has never proven anything, then yes it's a concern.
 

HouTx11

Rookie
NFL games are won and lost by kickers all of the time. Every week and by multiple teams. Multiple games every season are won and lost by a kicker. SB's are won and lost by a kicker a lot. No, it is a BIG DEAL. Whether you're killing teams now or not, if you have a very shaky inconsistent kicker that has never proven anything, then yes it's a concern.
NFL games are also won and lost by more than just one score. What I am saying is that there are other BIG DEAL concerns on this team other than the kicker, which yes is a concern but I'm not giving up on Bullock yet. It is too early to say that he won't be able to turn it around.

Again, the fact that we are having to rely on the kicker (whoever he is) to win every game so far is also a very BIG DEAL!

/thread
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
NFL games are also won and lost by more than just one score. What I am saying is that there are other BIG DEAL concerns on this team other than the kicker, which yes is a concern but I'm not giving up on Bullock yet. It is too early to say that he won't be able to turn it around.

Again, the fact that we are having to rely on the kicker (whoever he is) to win every game so far is also a very BIG DEAL!

/thread
That is only a big deal because those games were against the Titans and the Chargers who weren't thought of as good teams before we played them.

Our kicker is currently one of the biggest problems on this team from what I have seen thus far. He cost the team like 9 points last game, and missed the last kick like 3 out of 4 times. That was not just a choke. That was an epic "Ian Howfield" choke. When our kicker was struggling for us last season Kubiak cost us the game against the Jags on Thanksgiving by not going for the first down to get a TD or a really close easy kick and just ran the ball making it a very difficult kick. Our kicker missed the FG and sent the game into OT where the Jags just gave us the game, but Kubiak's decision making cost us that game and we should have lost. Brown struggled all season a few years ago and then missed two game winning FG's the year we went 9-7 and missed the post season. The fact that Kubiak ignored the idea of finding a kicker to try out in mid season cost us a playoff spot. You guys really do like to forget things like this when you like a HC. This is history that shouldn't be forgotten especially when you are already seeing similar problems taking place this early in the season.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
What are the odds that we'll land the only FA kicker off the street that will not miss a 50+ yard field goal?

Why would we believe Rick Smith can find a better kicker than the one he saved a roster spot for?
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
What are the odds that we'll land the only FA kicker off the street that will not miss a 50+ yard field goal?

Why would we believe Rick Smith can find a better kicker than the one he saved a roster spot for?
Then fine, just accept the fact that it's impossible to improve the position where an unproven guy is there. No reason in trying at all to see what is there right? We already have the best option in the guy that cost the team 9 points last game and missed 3 out of 4 kicks. :kubepalm:
 

Tailgate

Fall of Hame
Wasnt Bullock like 29 of 33 his senior year? They see him everyday in practice. It was ONE bad game. He has all the talent.

Most likely we cut him like you want and he goes and has a great career for somebody else.

Sounds like another Kubiak is stubborn thread.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Wasnt Bullock like 29 of 33 his senior year? They see him everyday in practice. It was ONE bad game. He has all the talent.

Most likely we cut him like you want and he goes and has a great career for somebody else.

Sounds like another Kubiak is stubborn thread.
So because he is struggling horribly it is most likely that he goes on and has a great career for somebody else?? I can't even fathom how you came up with that logic as a conclusion based on what has lead up to this thread.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Duane Brown was horrible early in his career; he should have been cut.
Kareem Jackson should have been cut.
Mercilus should have been cut.
Kubiak is a stubborn biatch. :kitten:
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
The final thing to consider is, does Kubiak want to cut another highly touted special teams player, and risk another Trindon Holliday embarrassment? Every time be bring back a return, the announcers mention for the country to listen how the Texans didn't stand behind their guy after a few weeks of the season, and how the Broncos have benefited. There is ever chance that Bullock comes out of his rookie jitter session - and due to the draft pick and time that the Texans have obviously invested in Bullock, I don't think that he'll be getting any knee-jerk release papers.
The Holliday situation IMO was very different. His debacle was mostly on the blocking fiasco known as his supporting STs. Bullock's position is very much more a one-on-one responsibility position.

For success, with a Holliday, "it takes a village." With a Bullock, the village usually can only watch.
 

Say Watt

Hall of Fame
Duane Brown was horrible early in his career; he should have been cut.
Kareem Jackson should have been cut.
Mercilus should have been cut.
Kubiak is a stubborn biatch. :kitten:
Well said.

I'd also add that there have been plenty of kickers that have started their careers off with some poor showings only to end up turning it around and becoming excellent kickers. This is not a Randy Bullock problem so much as it is a problem with many kickers that enter the NFL. It is a pressure packed situation. Let's not forget Bullock just kicked a 41 yd game winning field goal in week 1. Methinks Texecutioner's Longhorn love is playing into his quick temper tantrum in regards to Bullock.
 

Tailgate

Fall of Hame
So because he is struggling horribly it is most likely that he goes on and has a great career for somebody else?? I can't even fathom how you came up with that logic as a conclusion based on what has lead up to this thread.
So you are basing everything off of one game?
 

Tailgate

Fall of Hame
Well said.

I'd also add that there have been plenty of kickers that have started their careers off with some poor showings only to end up turning it around and becoming excellent kickers. This is not a Randy Bullock problem so much as it is a problem with many kickers that enter the NFL. It is a pressure packed situation. Let's not forget Bullock just kicked a 41 yd game winning field goal in week 1. Methinks Texecutioner's Longhorn love is playing into his quick temper tantrum in regards to Bullock.
Its not in regards to Bullock. Its in regards to Kubiak.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
So you are basing everything off of one game?
One game for a guy that has proven nothing and is a rookie or 2nd year player that cost the team 9 points and missed 3 out of 4 FG's at the end of a game. Yes, that is what I am basing this on. That game was the equivalent to 3 or 4 bad games as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not saying we have to replace him, but we should be at least working with other guys and trying them out. YOu don't think that competition could help this guy at least if we ended up keeping him out of everyone that competed? It would at least send the message that Kubiak isn't messing around and will replace guys if they aren't up to task. If Kubiak held some tryouts and still wanted our current guy, then I'd be alright with it for this season at least since he at least tried to see what else was out there to. If you look for better options, and end up having to use the best out of all the options and he was that guy then so be it. But simply blowing it off and and acting like this problem can't potentially cost us a playoff spot or something like that with a loss from a kick or two would be ignoring history that could repeat itself.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
He lost out to a very established Akers.
I don't think he "lost" out. They just went with experience over a guy who had never played a football game ever. Akers missed 13 FGs last season and is already 2-4 this season. Rugland hit every kick he had, only 3 but still. 33, 49 and 50 were his FGs.

Rugland's problem might have been his kickoffs. Only 2 of his 6 KOs were touchbacks.
 

BullBlitz

Section 331
I think Bullock will get to stick around until he at least causes a lost game (probably more likely 2 or 3).

The final thing to consider is, does Kubiak want to cut another highly touted special teams player, and risk another Trindon Holliday embarrassment.
Keep someone who he knows isn't doing well until he really begins to cost the team. And keep someone because he doesn't want to risk being publicly wrong.

Definitely. That's how to build a winner.
 

Tailgate

Fall of Hame
One game for a guy that has proven nothing and is a rookie or 2nd year player that cost the team 9 points and missed 3 out of 4 FG's at the end of a game. Yes, that is what I am basing this on. That game was the equivalent to 3 or 4 bad games as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not saying we have to replace him, but we should be at least working with other guys and trying them out. YOu don't think that competition could help this guy at least if we ended up keeping him out of everyone that competed? It would at least send the message that Kubiak isn't messing around and will replace guys if they aren't up to task. If Kubiak held some tryouts and still wanted our current guy, then I'd be alright with it for this season at least since he at least tried to see what else was out there to. If you look for better options, and end up having to use the best out of all the options and he was that guy then so be it. But simply blowing it off and and acting like this problem can't potentially cost us a playoff spot or something like that with a loss from a kick or two would be ignoring history that could repeat itself.
Yes, you can definitely put me in the blow it off camp right now. Not even on my radar of concern, because one game does not make an ENTIRE CAREER for me.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Well said.

I'd also add that there have been plenty of kickers that have started their careers off with some poor showings only to end up turning it around and becoming excellent kickers. This is not a Randy Bullock problem so much as it is a problem with many kickers that enter the NFL. It is a pressure packed situation. Let's not forget Bullock just kicked a 41 yd game winning field goal in week 1. Methinks Texecutioner's Longhorn love is playing into his quick temper tantrum in regards to Bullock.
What the hell do the Longhorns have to do with this?

You're sticking up for a kicker that hasn't proven squat other then the fact that he's capable of costing a team games. Holler at me when he shows some consistency before acting like I'm "freaking out." Again, a lot of you like to forget history where Kubiak's loyalty to not one, but two "Browns" in one season single handily cost the Texans a playoff spot. But, we should just ignore that and act like it couldn't possibly happen again, because that is what SB winning HC's do.
 

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
Kubiak is a stubborn biatch. :kitten:
Yeah, it's just too bad that more knee-jerk fans don't consider that to be an admirable trait for a head coach. :kitten:

Me thinks you want to pull the trigger on Bullock just a little bit too quickly, Tex. Especially in the middle of the season where all the good ones are already taken.

Be careful what you're asking for.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Yeah, it's just too bad that more knee-jerk fans don't consider that to be an admirable trait for a head coach. :kitten:

Me thinks you want to pull the trigger on Bullock just a little bit too quickly, Tex. Especially in the middle of the season where all the good ones are already taken.

Be careful what you're asking for.
I haven't stated one time throughout this thread that this guy should be cut. I'm advocating for the same thing I advocated for several years ago when Brown killed us in several games which is to try out some new kickers and see what is out there. If Bullock can out play all of these guys after we kick some tires around, then so be it. What on earth is wrong with trying out other guys after the display that took place last week?
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Well said.

I'd also add that there have been plenty of kickers that have started their careers off with some poor showings only to end up turning it around and becoming excellent kickers. This is not a Randy Bullock problem so much as it is a problem with many kickers that enter the NFL. It is a pressure packed situation. Let's not forget Bullock just kicked a 41 yd game winning field goal in week 1. Methinks Texecutioner's Longhorn love is playing into his quick temper tantrum in regards to Bullock.
This kick today is essentially at least a high percentage (>85%) conversion. He is expected to make it, not be gloated over for it.

Advanced NFL Stats show the increasing distance conversion percentages through 2011. No reason to believe this stat has not continued its upward trend. The article underscores the importance of having a good kicker.


Kickers Are Getting Better and Better





 

Tailgate

Fall of Hame
I haven't stated one time throughout this thread that this guy should be cut. I'm advocating for the same thing I advocated for several years ago when Brown killed us in several games which is to try out some new kickers and see what is out there. If Bullock can out play all of these guys after we kick some tires around, then so be it. What on earth is wrong with trying out other guys after the display that took place last week?
Trying them out? As in give them playing time? Because how do you know how Bullock is kicking in practice? Maybe he is drilling everything? Then what is the point except taking up another roster space.

Lets face it, you wanted to title this "why arent we looking for another head coach".
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I'm not for letting Bullock go right now. But if this continues for 2-3 more games then the tale will be told in my mind. (Not Gary's)

Aggies are thick as thieves on this MB. There's always some kind of excuse. I mean y'all are showing Bullock more love than y'all did K.Brown.

I've got my doubts about how bad Bullock was injured last yr. Gary was going to keep Bullock some way despite Bullock being out performed by the utterly forgetable Graham.
 

Tailgate

Fall of Hame
This kick today is essentially at least a high percentage (>85%) conversion. He is expected to make it, not be gloated over for it.

Advanced NFL Stats show the increasing distance conversion percentages through 2011. No reason to believe this stat has not continued its upward trend. The article underscores the importance of having a good kicker.


Kickers Are Getting Better and Better
Which is why we used a draft pick on the kid. Using a draft pick on a kicker is an investment, expecting this guy to be your fg kicker for many years. And one bad game does not immediately thwart the whole damn plan.
 

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
What on earth is wrong with trying out other guys after the display that took place last week?
Because, as a head coach, that would indicate that you're panicking after one game. Something you should consider if you don't want your kicker to think you've already lost confidence in him. Not after just one game.

Edit: And just to be clear, I ain't no stinking Aggie.
 

AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
Which is why we used a draft pick on the kid. Using a draft pick on a kicker is an investment, expecting this guy to be your fg kicker for many years. And one bad game does not immediately thwart the whole damn plan.
the plan is to have a player who performs the task that is assigned. If the 5th round pick isn't good enough, "investment" be damned. On Sunday Randy B. did not perform. Is one week enough to blindly cut him? Probably not. but then again, I would have had a generic veteran kicker on the roster this off-season for competition.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Fingers crossed for me too.

Graham/Rackers/Kickalicious are available.

You are talking about signing guys that will ensure a loss of 10 yards of field position per kickoff and will struggle to make 50 yard field goals. Realize that Bullock is striking the ball very well... He had the 51 yard on the first timeout... Eventually, missing the 46 yarder off the upright. Earlier in the game, he nailed that 50 yard kick- hitting it so pure that the draw didn't work back into the goal until 5 yards past when it smacked into the net. Literally, that 50 yard miss would have been good from 65 yards.

I am worried as well. But, assuming the worst case scenario is not the way to lead a football team. My guess is that if his struggles continue, they will find a roster spot for a second kicker... similar to what New Orleans did a few years ago with Hartley when he was young and inconsistent.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
You're sticking up for a kicker that hasn't proven squat other then the fact that he's capable of costing a team games...
He won one game... almost cost us another. We don't have any extra roster spots. I don't think anyone wants to waste their time with a charade of a kicker competition.

Kickers get replaced all the time. It's not like they have to learn the play book. If we get to the point where they feel it's time to move on, we'll move on. Right now they feel like it's time to show their support for him, to nurture him.

I can imagine Bullock using that game as motivation for the rest of the season & using it to kick the game winning kick in the Super Bowl.
 

Showtime100

Got JJ?
The result would be the same... Bullock would've won the job and the Texans would be in the exact position they are in.
Dale, I just clicked your sig (Texans Bull Blog) and after looking around at three different places all I saw were things from 11 months ago.

What gives? I can come here and find out things faster than most news organizations have it.

I mean no harm or disrespect at all, just wondering why I would want to go there.

(sorry for the hijacking folks! :))
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
You are talking about signing guys that will ensure a loss of 10 yards of field position per kickoff and will struggle to make 50 yard field goals. Realize that Bullock is striking the ball very well... He had the 51 yard on the first timeout... Eventually, missing the 46 yarder off the upright. Earlier in the game, he nailed that 50 yard kick- hitting it so pure that the draw didn't work back into the goal until 5 yards past when it smacked into the net. Literally, that 50 yard miss would have been good from 65 yards.

I am worried as well. But, assuming the worst case scenario is not the way to lead a football team. My guess is that if his struggles continue, they will find a roster spot for a second kicker... similar to what New Orleans did a few years ago with Hartley when he was young and inconsistent.
This is what I want the Texans to do. Sign a reliable K and let Bullock kick off. This is only if he doesn't improve over the next couple of games. I mean would gaining on kickoffs/ST's be worth cutting Andrew Gardner for example.
 
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