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Schaub #10, NFL starting QB rankings 1-10
- Thread starter PapaL
- Start date
Texian
Hall of Fame
That's about right. Only disagreement IMHO Elite QBs are making $20 million, so $15 million for #10 is where it should be. Also Schaub has shown in the past that he doesn't fare all that well against the $20 million a year QBs.
If Schaub belongs in the group, we got a great deal. All them guys just got paid in the last two years.... well, maybe not Ben & Eli, but they're still making more than Matt.
speedfreek
All Pro
#10 is about right. He's good, but not a game changer..
(won't be until he elevates the team with wins over
brady, brees, and rogers at least 50% of the time)
TJ
(won't be until he elevates the team with wins over
brady, brees, and rogers at least 50% of the time)
TJ
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Ron Jaworski also rated Schaub #9 about a month ago. Most of my non-Texans-fan friends like Schaub. I seriously think it's mostly Texans fans that thinks he's overrated.
michaelm
vox nihili
I don't really care for Flacco as a QB, but he did what Schaub has never done. He played big when all the chips were in the middle of the table. That alone puts him above Schaub in my mind. Other than that, though, aren't they statistical twins?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I've never been a fan of Flacco. Up until last year's playoff run, he always folded under pressure. And that's how we beat them last year, we hit him a couple of times and he played scared from that point on.
But he didn't do that in the post-season. So maybe he's turned a corner.
But from a statistical standpoint, Schaub is a step up from Flacco.
Flacco has never thrown for over 3900 yards in a season. Schaub? 3 out of the last 4 seasons, he's thrown for over 4000 yards and every season Schaub has played a whole season for the Texans, he's thrown over 4000 yards.
In 5 years, Flacco has broken a 90 QB rating 1 time and that was a 93.6 back in 2010. Last year, he had an 87.7. Schaub? With the Texans, he's been below 90 1 time (an 87.2 in 2007). His best was a 98.6 back in 2009 and last year he had a 90.7... one of his worst QB rating years with the Texans. Over his career, Flacco gets about 7.1 yards per attempt and Schaub over his career with the Texans gets about 7.8 yards per attempt.
houstonspartan
All Pro
The reason non-Texans fans love Schaub is because they don't watch the team on a regular basis. It's easy to swoop in, look at raw statistics, and say, "Wow, this guy is good!" Or to see a legendary Schaub-to-Andre pass highlight on ESPN and be impressed.
My non-Texans fan friends feel the same way yours do. They think we have a great qb. They don't see the nitty gritty, play-by-play things we pay attention to. All they see are high numbers and statistics.
Schaub has the stats, but not the performance. It's that simple.
I just think it's funny seeing Flacco, Romo, & Ryan getting paid like Rodgers.
We got a steal on Schaub (in comparison) & our fans are still upset. smh.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
This is my official stance as well. We don't have an elite QB, he's not going to single handedly win us games, but we do have great value at that position!!!
dream_team
Hall of Fame
The flip-side to that is possibly Texans fans' standards are way too high. If we don't win a SB, we need a scapegoat, and for some reason mostly everyone has picked Schaub.
I think that's part of it. A big part of it. Right now, we look back & we say how poor the talent was on the pre-Kubiak team. But in 2005 we thought we had a play-off team.
Another reason is that we have a great many people who seems to focus only on the negative.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Schaub's only been in the playoffs once.
eriadoc
Texan-American
I don't know too many Texans fans that think he's overrated, but I know many who bristle at the harping that used to go on about Schaub being underrated, particularly after his 4700 yard season.
Flacco has one stat over Schaub that we all want Schaub to have, and that's playoff wins. He has a bunch. I'm not a Flacco fan, and I actually hate when people ascribe wins and losses to the QB, but you have to admit that Flacco steps it up in the playoffs. If we can't have a team with an elite QB, then I want a complete team that at least has a QB that steps it up when it really counts. How many chances did the Texans have to win home field advantage last season? Three? More? They controlled their destiny throughout the last half of the season, and Schaub buckled under the pressure. Much of the rest of the team did as well, but we're talking QB here.
Winner! Move the ball between the 20s and settle for FGs way too often, especially against good teams. The stats don't impress me any longer. I honestly believe Kubiak could take several of the QBs rated below Schaub in this list and have them putting up similar stats in a year or two.
People forget that Flacco has had four previous years of playoff experience. AND was surrounded by pretty good talent - especially at RB - and backed up by a pretty good defense.
Let's look at Flacco's playoff history....
2008/09 - 2-1
@ Miami (W, 27-9) - 9-23 for 135 yds, 0 TDs, 0 Ints
@ Titans (W, 13-10) - 11-22 for 161 yds, 1 TD, 0 Ints
@ Steelers (L, 14-23) - 13-30 for 141, 0 TDs, 3 Ints
2009/10 - 1-1
@ Pats (W 33-14) - 4-10 for 34 yds, 0 TDs, 1 Int (they ran over the Pats for 220+ yds and 3 TDs)
@ Colts (L 3-20) - 20-35 for 189 yds, 0 TDs, 2 Ints
2010/11 - 1-1
@ Chiefs (W 30-7) - 25-34 for 265 yds, 2 TDs, 0 Ints (Flacco finally carries his weight)
@ Steelers (L 24-31) - 16-30 for 125 yds, 1 TD, 1 Int
2011/12 - 1-1
Vs Texans (W 20-17) - 14-27 for 176 yds, 2 TDs, 0 Ints (Yates throws 3 Ints and wastes a 150+ game from Foster and a 100 rcvg game from A.J.)
@ Pats (L 20-23) - 20-36 for 306 yds, 2 TDs, 1 Int (Finally has a decent playoff game and loses to Belichick)
2012/13 - 4-0 this is the only year I would say Flacco actually carried his team thru the playoffs - his fifth shot for a SB ring.
vs. Colts (W 24-9) - 12-23 for 282 yds, 2 TDs, 0 Ints
@ Broncos (W 38-35) - 18-34 for 334 yds, 3 TDs, 0 Ints
@ Pats (W 28-13) - 29-54 for 320 yds, 1 TD, 2 Ints
@ SF (W 34-31) - 22-33 for 287 yds, 3 TDs, 0 Ints
Let's see how he does this year with the heart and brains of that defense gone.
I completely agree with this statement. However, he did see enough in Matt to burn two 2nd round picks on him. So yes, a lot of Schaub's success is because of Gary Kubiak... but Matt's not chopped liver.
We're running out of time Chavez!!
I think it should be clear to anyone who watched that game last night, the Flacco is no better than Matt Schaub, but the fact remains we need to see Matt nutt up in the play-offs & play as well as Flacco did. Great defense, great running game, but that QB has to step up.... your stats show us that much.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I'm not going to say it's the sole reason for redzone mediocrity, but we hardly ever throw the corner fade. Teams run it multiple times and one game. We run it a couple few times a year.
The play is almost unstoppable if thrown correctly.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Someone else put the stats up but Flacco never stepped it up in the playoffs until last year. His team carried him to a lot of victories. Last night, he started to get that Deer Caught In Headlights look that I thought he'd overcome at the end of last season.
Schaub has had 1 opportunity to get into the playoffs and he didn't look great. Now... he's had the experience. Hopefully he's learned and grown from that and he can do better the next time.
That's why I've been saying that I don't believe Schaub has stopped improving. I don't think we've seen him at his ceiling and with the type of QB he is (more about accuracy and intelligence than arm-strength), he could continue to improve and play at a high level for several more years... like a Rich Gannon who had his best seasons when he was older than Schaub is now.
houstonspartan
All Pro
Our standards are too high? We've had the same head coach for, what, seven years now? And it's too much to expect a Super Bowl in seven years, when it really only takes about 5 to re-build a team?
Seven years and we shouldn't expect a Super Bowl?
Are you kidding?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
No, you are being unrealistic. Even a SB appearance every 7 years is a ridiculous standard.
Only Pittsburgh, Dallas and New England have averaged less than 7 years per appearance.
Ummm... if a team is very lucky and hits on major picks and finds some solid F/As (good vets or diamond-in-the-rough UDFAs) it can turn around it's fortunes in a relatively short term.
How long have Miami, Oakland, Cleveland, Detroit, Jacksonville, Buffalo, and St. Louis been struggling to get back to mediocrity, let alone playoff-land? The Cardinal franchise has been around since 1920 and have only had ONE Super Bowl appearance.
Every fanbase wants a Super Bowl every season and every team's goal is to win it. No doubt about that.
But "expect"....??
With the talent on this Texans team I expect them to get into the playoffs. After that its a crapshoot. Recent history has shown it's a matter of who gets hot and healthy in January that decides who gets to the Super Bowl.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
Schaub at ten isnt good enough. He needs to elevate his game
MEGA SWATT
All Pro
Agree
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
I'd take romo. Naked bootleg he has wheels for a first down. Also has a better arm. Would take flacco also.
There are 13 other teams that never won a SB, with several of them running a drought of over forty years.
It took the Cardinals 65 years just to get to the SB.
Since 1985, they only had 3 seasons with a winning record.
Fifteen of those seasons ended with 5 or fewer wins.
They had two "Perfect" 0-10 seasons, and five with just one (1) win to show for.
Their franchise record is 209 under the .500 mark.
They have never won the big prize since 1920.
How would you like to be one of their fans? LOL.
It took the Cardinals 65 years just to get to the SB.
Since 1985, they only had 3 seasons with a winning record.
Fifteen of those seasons ended with 5 or fewer wins.
They had two "Perfect" 0-10 seasons, and five with just one (1) win to show for.
Their franchise record is 209 under the .500 mark.
They have never won the big prize since 1920.
How would you like to be one of their fans? LOL.
I understand what houstonspartan is saying, 5 years & you should expect your team to be a Super Bowl contender. Just because the worse organizations in the league can't do it doesn't make it an unreasonable expectation. If the Cowboys, 49ers, Patriots, & Steelers are averaging less than 7 years per Super Bowl appearance... that should be the goal.
I don't agree it's time to blow things up if we don't get it (it may not have been his intention, but that's what I inferred). We've been thinking we should have been in the Super Bowl since 2011, we've been "expecting" a Super Bowl since Gary's 6th season. He rebuilt this failed expansion in 5 years.
Now, Gary has a Super Bowl contender, there's a window 3 maybe 5 years. This is year 3.... shouldn't we "expect" at least an appearance in the big game? I said I don't agree with it, but if Kubiak can't do it in 3 years with the team he built, would it make sense to bring someone in while the window is still open?
Think about the Bucs, the Colts, & maybe the Saints (if we stretch it).
For all intents & purposes, Romo & Schaub are the same guy. Romo is more exciting to watch, but he needs a really good team to make anything happen. They had a defense & a running game a while back & they turned that into 1 play off win. With Romo being the "reason" they didn't win that divisional game.
That Dallas team was every bit as good & talented as the team we had last year & the year before. Swapping Schaub for Romo is trading half a dozen for six. It sounds better, but it's really the same thing.
I know what MS/GK team will give us. I don't know what TR/GK will give us. I would make the trade. At least Romo has the ability to improvise which I think you must have to win the SB or even get to the SB. I think you have a better chance of controlling/managing Romo than asking MS to create/improvise. Just my opinion.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
All you listed have one season in the league. ONE.
Stafford? Stafford is like 1-23 vs teams with a winning record.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...w-stafford-super-bowl-comes-before-top-dollar
kingtexan
All Pro
Ok then just for you take Stafford off the list and add Dalton, Newton, Cutler, and Tannehill.
There ya go sparky.
List is still a joke.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Daltons stats are underwhelming
Newton is a pouter and throws a lot of interceptions
Cutler is inconsistent and has a piss poor attitude
Tannehill...one season again
Hey I jumped on the Schaub hate train last year but he is NOT hot garbage like some claim. Hes proven dependable (health), has good stats and can manage a game. I am just amazed how people put one year wonders at the top of the QB list. The only one of the QB's from the last couple seasons I see with any real future is Luck.
RG3, Kap and Wilson: lets see how they fare now that defenders know they can hit them and not worry about the rules to protect QB's.
kingtexan
All Pro
We will see if Matt can stay healthy another year, and not turn the ball over at an amazing pace. But even if he can, I cant put him higher than middle of the pack. As for the one year guys, I think we will find out this year they are for real.
Until then, they're right where they need to be.
I seem to recall a quote in one of TC's blogs where she said Kubiak stated there has never been a season since he's been head coach that winning the Super Bowl wasn't his goal going into the season.
I'm in complete agreement. I'm still scarred by the memory of Bud blowing up a 12-4 Oilers team (1993) because they failed to get to the Super Bowl. Took the better part of a decade (1999) to recover from that. I trust that Uncle Bob isn't that stupid. And from recent events, McNair is the kind of owner that makes careful, calculated moves. Our defense sucked, he went and got Wade. We got torched by Brady (even with Wade and Watt in place) he went and got Ed Reed. It remains to be seen if that will pay off as much as the Wade move did.
First I don't believe the "window" has to be limited to a certain time frame. Dungy/Manning kept the Colts a contender for a decade. The Ravens have been perennial contenders since 2000. The Pats have been in the playoff picture nearly every year since 2001 (with the odd 7-9 season) The Steelers have too.
With solid offensive and defensive systems in place and a GM and scouting staff that replaces aging talent with young talent that excel in those systems, your team can stay playoff relevant for a long time. The examples are out there. It can be done.
BUT... if it becomes painfully apparent that Schaub - or GK - has "max'ed out" then Uncle Bob WILL cut them loose. But not until Uncle Bob has identified the guy(s) he perceives to be significant upgrade(s). Uncle Bob's first move will be to whisper in Gary's ear that "the Schaub era has run it's course, go find me a stud or I'll bring in a coach who will." Remember, careful, calculated moves; that's Uncle Bob's M.O.
Not sure what your point is here.
I agree 100 %. Anybody watching games today. It is obvious that a mobile QB is a big advantage. Watching Oak vs Colts. You don't need a ColinK but you do need something beside the absolute worst MS. I think it was painfully clear at the end of last year and the playoffs. Our D is not good enough to carry us. The offense is much more important now than what is was 10-15 years ago.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Is that why two defensive-minded teams were in the Superbowl last season?
Schaub will have a Flacco like chip on his shoulder this season and win the MVP!
I SURE HOPE SO!!!
BUT:
BUT... Sure Schaub looks a little slow when one looks at his eyes, but I know there's more there. How else could he be in the NFL? ( fill in your favorite flakeout here) I think he may have attended a public speaking class in the off season - his poise and presence are much improved so good for him! That reflects better upon the entire team. GOOD!
Two seasons ago before we lost him, I remembered hearing on the radio that we were AFc's #1 ranked team ( I forget who we played, but it was a win) And that same day found out about the lisfranc injury. ugh.
Fast forward a year, we're off to a bad a$$ start 11- ? and what happens? No matter how he plays early season, I know I'll have those late season doubts creep into my head come November. How do you keep him motivated and focused? He says what he needs to in press conferences, but when it's him and the team in the huddle, or in the locker room at half time and we're not getting ti done, what is he saying? We always come back SO weak in the 3rd its predictable! Only certain personalities and individuals can fit a true leader on a football field (or hell, in life for that matter) and he has a long way to go before the league recognizes him as a leader (IMO). Personally, I think he oughta have a weekly contest between Yates n Keenum just to keep up. Would it be too much work? Would it be senseless? I dunno, I'll call my blonde woman lady card, but I love my Texans and as much as I've tried to stand by Schaub it seems I'm NEVER the one getting the last laugh and I"M TIRED OF IT! AND SO IS AJ i'm sure.
kingtexan
All Pro
Good post. The issue with Matt isn't that he is the worst QB in history, but that he tends to flake at the worst times. I agree that there is something in a QB's eyes that tells you something about what he has inside. Look at Matt then look at Case and tell me who wants it worse. Same with Manning, Favre, Elway, etc. Not comparing Case to them yet, he hasnt earned it, but he gets that look that I like to see in a QB.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
Im with you Sway but I hope he has seen EVERYONE basically calling his manhood into question this offseason. Even Rick Smiths comments about QB's being measured by championships has to have sent some sort of ripple into Schuabs ego and upset him. It is human nature.
Unless my other fear is true and he is just a Kubiak robot that lacks emotion.
Unless my other fear is true and he is just a Kubiak robot that lacks emotion.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I don't understand how Romo haters don't see that he would kill it in our offense. He has to run for his life on 90% of the snaps, AND he has to throw 50 times a game with no running game to speak of, AND with all that he's still a pretty good QB.
Because along with all that, he makes more mistakes than Matt. It's possible that Romo wouldn't make as many mistakes in our offense, because it is so QB friendly... but we don't know that.
He makes some bad decisions, I'd say more bad decisions than Matt.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
I agree that he makes more bad decisions, but I think that's because he's put in situations where he HAS to make something happen. To be fair, I think last season was Romo's worst by far, highlighted by several bad multiple int games.
Obviously we'll never know, but it's just my opinion that he'd be at least as good as Matt in our offense.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
How many mistakes would schaub make as cowboy qb? Being everything revolves around him over and over again.
I don't know, but I'd assume he'll make less mistakes than Romo.
I like Romo, but we can't say he's never had a good offensive line. There's been a time when he had the best OL. He's had 2 talented receivers, he had 2 talented RBs & he had one of the top defenses in the league... he got 1 play off victory.
Matt isn't as mobile as Romo & I personally prefer the more mobile, athletic "gunslinger" but maybe Matt is better at reading defenses & getting the ball out on time. Matt's got to have something that evens everything out, because he's done just about everything Romo has. When we didn't have a good offensive line, Matt was still throwing for 4,000 yards, without a run game, Matt still won 9 games.
The last two years we saw that Romo can't carry a team. It wouldn't matter if he what team he isn't carrying.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
He also went 13-3 and 11-5 with those lines. Didn't do anything in the playoffs, but neither has Matt.