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The backup RB battle

7

76Texan

Hall of Fame
C.Sturgis kicks 65 yards from MIA 35 to end zone, Touchback.
Houston Texans at 0:43

1-10-HST 20 (:43) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass short middle to D.Hopkins to HST 33 for 13 yards (J.Wilson). P8


1-10-HST 33 (:05) D.Karim left tackle to HST 38 for 5 yards (A.Spitler)
Dolphins attacked the wrong gaps, making it easy for the Texans O-line to block.
A better block by Hopkins would have sprung Karim for yards.
Nothing special by Karim here.
Outside zone run with LT blocking in.

Second Quarter

2-5-HST 38 (15:00) D.Karim right guard to HST 44 for 6 yards (A.Spitler). R9
Good blocking by all, again, making it easy for Karim.


1-10-HST 44 (14:21) C.Keenum pass short left to K.Martin to MIA 47 for 9 yards (D.Patterson).


2-1-MIA 47 (13:42) De.Johnson right end to MIA 49 for -2 yards (K.Randall, K.McCray).
Quiz looked really bad and Newton was also losing ground.
Absolutely nowhere for DJ to go.
This could have been a five yards loss, but DJ fought hard to lose just two.

3-3-MIA 49 (13:00) C.Keenum pass incomplete short middle to K.Martin.


4-3-MIA 49 (12:53) A.Shapiro punts 37 yards to MIA 12, Center-J.Weeks, fair catch by M.Thigpen.
 
MIA 14 HST 14, 11 plays, 78 yards, 4:46 drive, 11:01 elapsed

C.Sturgis kicks 73 yards from MIA 35 to HST -8. De.Johnson, Touchback.

Houston Texans at 3:59

1-10-HST 20 (3:59) C.Keenum pass incomplete deep right.


2-10-HST 20 (3:51) D.Karim left tackle to HST 21 for 1 yard (D.Shelby).
Brooks missed the cut block and dove forward into the heel of the C White.
This caught him totally off-balance and got pushed back by the DT.
The other DT (whom Brooks was supposed to block) squeezed the gap, limiting the room Karim had to run through.

3-9-HST 21 (3:09) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass deep middle to A.Lemon to HST 41 for 20 yards (W.Davis). P12


1-10-HST 41 (2:37) (Shotgun) PENALTY on HST-A.Gardner, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at HST 41 - No Play.


1-15-HST 36 (2:21) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass incomplete short right to A.Lemon (D.Shelby).


2-15-HST 36 (2:18) (Shotgun) De.Johnson up the middle to HST 39 for 3 yards (D.Shelby).
Jones was so-so on his block (no push) while Brooks was too wide in his stance on the seal block.
This closed up the gap for the lead blocker to get through.
Graham, who lined up as the H-back, had to slow down to avoid stepping on Brook's leg.
By this time, the DT was able to disengage from Jones' block to tackle DJ.
DJ worked hard to gain an extra yard, yard and a half.

Two-Minute Warning

3-12-HST 39 (2:00) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass short left to K.Martin to HST 43 for 4 yards (J.Taylor).


Timeout #1 by MIA at 01:49.


4-8-HST 43 (1:49) A.Shapiro punts 48 yards to MIA 9, Center-J.Weeks, fair catch by C.Bumphis.
 
Houston Texans at 0:48

1-10-HST 49 (:48) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass short left to G.Graham to MIA 44 for 7 yards (J.Kaddu).


2-3-MIA 44 (:30) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass short right to De.Johnson to MIA 39 for 5 yards (N.Carroll, T.Robertson). P13
With pressure right in his face, Keenum quickly dumped off a pass to DJ, who dragged the tackler for another 4 yards.


Timeout #2 by HST at 00:22.
1-10-MIA 39 (:22) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass short right to A.Lemon pushed ob at MIA 28 for 11 yards (N.Carroll). P14


1-10-MIA 28 (:17) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass incomplete deep right to A.Lemon.


2-10-MIA 28 (:12) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass incomplete deep right to A.Lemon.


3-10-MIA 28 (:06) R.Bullock 46 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Weeks, Holder-S.Lechler

MIA 14 HST 17, 6 plays, 23 yards, 0:47 drive, 14:59 elapsed
 
Third Quarter


Houston Texans at 13:33

1-10-HST 20 (13:33) D.Karim up the middle to HST 21 for 1 yard (T.Okpalaugo).
RG White and RT Harris got no push on the double-team (that's bad).
Still, Karim needed to pick a hole and just plow through it instead of running into White's back.
He could have pick up a yard or two more.

2-9-HST 21 (12:57) C.Keenum pass short left to T.Clutts to HST 37 for 16 yards (W.Davis). P15


1-10-HST 37 (12:19) D.Karim left guard to HST 34 for -3 yards (A.Francis).
Not sure where Karim's aiming point is supposed to be on this play.
It was in 12 personnel and there were two double-teams on the back side.
One would think the runner would need to get ready for the cut back immediately,
especially since Jones was blocking his man to the front side.
Looks like Karim may have widen himself to much at the outset,
he wasn't able to cut back properly.
Perhaps Jones needed to be better at his block, too (???)
Even with the poor double-team by the two TEs on the back side,
there was a lot of room here.

2-13-HST 34 (11:39) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass incomplete short right to L.Jean (T.Robertson).


3-13-HST 34 (11:33) (Shotgun) C.Keenum pass deep right to G.Graham to MIA 48 for 18 yards (J.Kovacs, J.Kaddu).


PENALTY on HST-G.Graham, Offensive Pass Interference, 10 yards, enforced at HST 34 - No Play.

3-23-HST 24 (11:04) (Shotgun) D.Karim up the middle to HST 33 for 9 yards (T.Robertson).
It was 3rd and 23 so the Dolphins dropped back into coverage, giving the Texans and Karim plenty of room to run through.
They didn't mind a 9-yd run.
Nothing special by Karim here.

4-14-HST 33 (10:31) A.Shapiro punts 42 yards to MIA 25, Center-J.Weeks. C.Bumphis to MIA 29 for 4 yards (E.Mack).
 
Houston Texans at 8:56

1-10-HST 20 (8:56) D.Karim right tackle to HST 33 for 13 yards (J.Posey; L.Robinson). R16
Excellent job by the Texans around the POA on this wide zone run to the right.
Graham with a great seal block on the edge.
Nice job by Harris pulling to the outside to decimate one of the OLB.
Good jobs most everywhere by the blockers.
Too easy for the runner.

1-10-HST 33 (8:20) D.Karim left end to MIA 48 for 19 yards (R.Stanford). R17
Nice jump by Graham at the beginning, giving the LT Gardner and the RG Quiz
plenty of room to pull to the outside to block at the second level.
Good blocks downfield by Jean, and especially KMart.
Not a knock on Karim, but I think Foster would likely score a TD here.

1-10-MIA 48 (7:40) D.Karim up the middle to MIA 44 for 4 yards (T.Okpalaugo).
Good blocking by the Texans everywhere, but too much dancing by Karim here.
Had he hit the hole immediately, he would have gained at least 3 or 4 more yards.

2-6-MIA 44 (7:00) T.Yates pass short middle to K.Martin to MIA 33 for 11 yards (D.Jones). P18


1-10-MIA 33 (6:26) T.Yates pass short left to G.Graham for 33 yards, TOUCHDOWN. P19


R.Bullock extra point is GOOD, Center-J.Weeks, Holder-S.Lechler
 
I think this is as important as back up QB. I'd like to see Tate traded with Foster, Wood and Karim on roster.
 
badboy said:
I think this is as important as back up QB. I'd like to see Tate traded with Foster, Wood and Karim on roster.
Click to expand...

Before Karim arrived I picked DJ and Wood in the UDFA game.
My take was that those guys might either make the team or the PS.

Wood needs to improve on his blocking (from what I saw on film and from what I heard from the practices) to have a chance.

DJ has been really good at this; I think he and Karim are the two front runners in this battle.

I don't mind trading Tate, but it seems such a waste to do that.
 
Playoffs said:
I'm not sure why you posted what you posted. How does "3-10-MIA 28 (:06) R.Bullock 46 yard field goal is GOOD, Center-J.Weeks, Holder-S.Lechler" affect the backup RB battle?
Click to expand...

Oh, I just copied the whole gamebook into notepad so I can make a note of each play whenever I have a chance to watch the game, a bit at a time.

@Icak,
I have no reason to be biased against myself.
In the college and mock draft forums, I and a couple of other "draftniks" were eying Cierre Wood with a late round pick for the Texans.

And I'm leaning toward Karim now.

How does a that make me biased???
 
infantrycak said:
Your commentary goes like this:

CJ - it is anyone's fault but CJ.
Karim - it is anyone's credit but Karim.
Click to expand...

Re-read post #2 and post #4 (the first play of the second half).

I just call it as I see it.
If people see it differently on any of the plays, they are welcomed to post their viewpoint.
 
Back to discussing RBs, I watched Wood last year every chance after spot checking him before '12. I had him in rounds 5-6 but was disappointed when he was not drafted. When ND coach moved another back ahead of him, he just kept on. 7 yd per carry IIRC & I was excited when he signed with Houston. Johnson good in TC not so much Wood and then reversal in preseason. Karim is strong with killer speed & needs to run as if he does not want to go back to parking cars. Interesting link: http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=85880&draftyear=2010&genpos=rb
 
Gonna keep banging this drum, Ray graham is the best back out of the bunch and he isn't getting the looks he deserves. Karim is a one trick pony, run fast. Dennis Johnson lacks vision IMO, Wood is good. Tate is crap. Thats my IN DEPTH discussion.


:bravo:
 
amazing80 said:
Gonna keep banging this drum, Ray graham is the best back out of the bunch and he isn't getting the looks he deserves. Karim is a one trick pony, run fast. Dennis Johnson lacks vision IMO, Wood is good. Tate is crap. Thats my IN DEPTH discussion.


:bravo:
Click to expand...

How's he doing at practice? RB for us is much much more than running the ball. Can't block, won't play. I'm sure the font play him and stash him on PS argument card will be played but humor me.
 
All we know is that in the last conference call, Kubiak said that nobody has separated himself.

(on evaluating the rookie free agent running backs) “Well, I don’t think anybody has separated themselves. I think I said last night, there’s something about (RB) Deji (Karim) that’s very trusting. He’s played a little bit of football in the NFL. He does everything right. He’s helping (special teams coordinator) Joe (Marciano) on special teams. I think, if anything, he’s probably a little ahead of the other guys, probably just from experience. (RB Dennis) Johnson has shown some signs, has practiced extremely well. It hasn’t transferred to the field the way I’d like it to, but there has been some good things. He’s excellent in his pass protection. Last night, not much happened in the run game and then he turns the ball over, which obviously you can’t do. We’re going to continue to give him opportunities because it’s been an excellent camp. (RB Cierre) Wood’s got a lot of talent. He’s inconsistent in what he’s doing. He’s got to play better for Joe on special teams. Those guys have got to sort it out for us and they’re going to get a great deal of time here over the next two weeks.”

Basically, he saw it just like I do.
 
Karim is probably best in pass pro and as a vet he has experience. He's probably the most dependable of the bunch and was a viable fantasy football commodity just a year back with mjd's issues.

Johnson is the speedster of the bunch with reliable hands and more value then anyone else as a return man.

I think c wood has the highest ceiling of the bunch and have been most impressed with him.

Dont know anything about the 4th guy but this will be one of the toughest roster cuts on the team. Texans did a great job in the udfa market here.
 
I guess the question is which two do we keep. Yeah, I see one as part of the 53 and one on the P/S.

Even with his disappointing game time performance - when running - D.J. seems to be better at recognizing and picking up blitzes in pass protect. C. Wood seems to have the better vision and one-cut ability. Although Karim isn't but a hair behind him. And, as A80 said, Graham hasn't had sufficient game time carries to make a fair assessment; he must not be doing enough in practice to earn said game time carries. Need help from those who are at practice for some insight.

So which two??
 
As bad as the Steelers are banged up at RB, I could see our guys not clearing waivers for PS.
 
I have been the most impressed with Wood and Karim. My feeling is that Karim will be our #3 due to his play and his experience.

I would love for the Texans to make Wood #3 or #4, but my feeling on this is that he and the rest of them will be waived. My guess right now is that it will be Foster/Tate/Karim on the roster.

Somebody will grab Wood from the waiver wire. Not sure who, but I definitely see this happening. It has happened before.
 
PapaL said:
As bad as the Steelers are banged up at RB, I could see our guys not clearing waivers for PS.
Click to expand...
Steelers just acquired Felix Jones, but I expect we will lose an RB off the PS and I expect Kubiak/Smith will get on the telephones trying to find places for these RBs who came to camp but are not in our plans. Talented group.
 
HouTx11 said:
I have been the most impressed with Wood and Karim. My feeling is that Karim will be our #3 due to his play and his experience.

I would love for the Texans to make Wood #3 or #4, but my feeling on this is that he and the rest of them will be waived. My guess right now is that it will be Foster/Tate/Karim on the roster.

Somebody will grab Wood from the waiver wire. Not sure who, but I definitely see this happening. It has happened before.
Click to expand...

... :)

Yeah. I don't think that Kubiak likes Wood as much as the rest of us do. I'm not sure why that is. It might be that he doesn't practice very well and to get a chance with Kubiak, you've got to be a professional who gets his business done on the practice field.

Judging from when different guys have been seeing the field, I think the depth chart as of the LAST preseason game was:

1. Foster
2. Tate
3. Karim
4. Dennis Johnson
5. Cierre Wood
6. Ray Graham.

From what I've been seeing, it really looks like they prefer Dennis Johnson and I suspect he's actually been the one that's been the best on the practice field.

Unless something strange happens, I expect Foster/Tate/Karim to start the season as our RBs and I expect them to try to slip DJ and/or Wood to the PS. I think Graham is out which is sad because I think he's a pretty talented guy who just hasn't gotten enough touches.
 
I don't think Dennis Johnson has looked that speedy on the field. I also don't think he has gotten many rushing yards.

I also don't think Ben Tate has looked that good in preseason.

I would rather see Wood and Karim as the ones that make the team
 
I remember when we got Arian & Jeremiah Johnson in training camp.

This feels very similar.
 
powda said:
Karim is probably best in pass pro and as a vet he has experience. He's probably the most dependable of the bunch and was a viable fantasy football commodity just a year back with mjd's issues.
Click to expand...


We all know how much Gary values the ability to pass protect from the RB spot .... a big part of why Foster didnt get an opportunity before injuries forced it.

Johnson is the speedster of the bunch with reliable hands and more value then anyone else as a return man
Click to expand...
.

Ive seen a couple instances where DJ put the ball on the turf in practice .... Im not sold on him having the best / most reliable hands of the bunch.

I think c wood has the highest ceiling of the bunch and have been most impressed with him.
Click to expand...


Wood reminds me an awful lot of Foster in this scheme .... I agree he has the highest upside of the group. He only got 5 carries Vs the Fish .... It'll be interesting to see how much run he gets in the next two dress rehersals - I have a feeling he doesn't get many touches and they try to hide him on the PS for a year. He looked really good against the Vikes very solid front seven.


I prefer Wood myself because of the upside but I think it comes down to pass protect ability and Karim wins the initial roster spot out of camp.

Grams said:
I don't think Dennis Johnson has looked that speedy on the field. I also don't think he has gotten many rushing yards.

I also don't think Ben Tate has looked that good in preseason.

I would rather see Wood and Karim as the ones that make the team
Click to expand...


I wouldn't complain if they moved Tate for a pick now and kept both Karim & Wood.

Then again , Tates value isn't at its peak ....
 
The Pencil Neck said:
... :)

Yeah. I don't think that Kubiak likes Wood as much as the rest of us do. I'm not sure why that is. It might be that he doesn't practice very well and to get a chance with Kubiak, you've got to be a professional who gets his business done on the practice field.

Judging from when different guys have been seeing the field, I think the depth chart as of the LAST preseason game was:

1. Foster
2. Tate
3. Karim
4. Dennis Johnson
5. Cierre Wood
6. Ray Graham.

From what I've been seeing, it really looks like they prefer Dennis Johnson and I suspect he's actually been the one that's been the best on the practice field.

Unless something strange happens, I expect Foster/Tate/Karim to start the season as our RBs and I expect them to try to slip DJ and/or Wood to the PS. I think Graham is out which is sad because I think he's a pretty talented guy who just hasn't gotten enough touches.
Click to expand...

From the horse's mouth: Pass pro & not "helping Joe".

I do agree somewhat that there's a chance he could get snagged and not make it through waivers but in the same breath I don't know what other teams have to offer at the RB position that other teams may covet more.
 
thunderkyss said:
I remember when we got Arian & Jeremiah Johnson in training camp.

This feels very similar.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking the same thing. He's buried on the Broncos' depth chart. I thought he'd be better than that. Turns out J.J. must have been a "system RB". :D
 
ObsiWan said:
I was just thinking the same thing. He's buried on the Broncos' depth chart. I thought he'd be better than that. Turns out J.J. must have been a "system RB". :D
Click to expand...

Most likely never got his head straight. Imagine if Arian never dedicated himself to the game.
 
I am predicting Foster, Tate, Karim on the 53 man. Greg Jones can run the ball some in "break glass in case of emergency" situation.

woods and Johnson have had moments, but not enough. guessing either or both will be on the PS.

Tate is not even being considered to be traded. He is the only back who has had success as an every down player. if you have aspirations of a Superbowl can't run out a career journeyman and a couple of UDFAs.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I am predicting Foster, Tate, Karim on the 53 man. Greg Jones can run the ball some in "break glass in case of emergency" situation.

woods and Johnson have had moments, but not enough. guessing either or both will be on the PS.

Tate is not even being considered to be traded. He is the only back who has had success as an every down player. if you have aspirations of a Superbowl can't run out a career journeyman and a couple of UDFAs.
Click to expand...

Same mind set as in the other thread.

There have been teams that won the SB with lesser known or unknown RBs at backup.

I'm just going to bring up the Broncos as one example.
In 97, Terrell Davis was a former sixth round draft choice.
His backup Hebron, was an UDFA.

So what did the Broncos do the following year?
They brought in another UDFA, Loville, to add to the mix.
 
Last night during the Hawks/Packers game Simms made a comment that made me smile. Stated that in a couple weeks there will be some talent available from the good, deep teams that will have to cut players because they just cant keep everyone.

Weird but it feels good that we are even talking about losing players
 
76Texan said:
Same mind set as in the other thread.

There have been teams that won the SB with lesser known or unknown RBs at backup.

I'm just going to bring up the Broncos as one example.
In 97, Terrell Davis was a former sixth round draft choice.
His backup Hebron, was an UDFA.

So what did the Broncos do the following year?
They brought in another UDFA, Loville, to add to the mix.
Click to expand...

You guys crack up with the exception to the rules posting. I am not even going to bother showing the other 16 years since then that again show teams would rather go with experience than journeymen and unproven guys. My post is based on consistent facts of how teams operate, not going find the once in a blue moon that opposite worked out.
 
If pass protection is a major criteria, Ben Tate should be 3rd on the depth chart. He has been paper to non-existent to as a blocker.

Either way Karim will be the #3 IMO. I think we will PS Wood.

We have a good problem though in that we are pretty deep at this spot
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
You guys crack up with the exception to the rules posting. I am not even going to bother showing the other 16 years since then that again show teams would rather go with experience than journeymen and unproven guys. My post is based on consistent facts of how teams operate, not going find the once in a blue moon that opposite worked out.
Click to expand...

It's not an exception that the NFL teams averaged 3 former UDFAs as starters last year.

We're talking about backups, which consist of plenty journeymen and UDFAs.
Just go through the roster of each team and see for yourself how many journeymen and UDFAs at backup RB last year.

You haven't looked up any real numbers in this regard, but I have.

If anything, you crack me up. :)
 
76Texan said:
It's not an exception that the NFL teams averaged 3 former UDFAs as starters last year.

We're talking about backups, which consist of plenty journeymen and UDFAs.
Just go through the roster of each team and see for yourself how many journeymen and UDFAs at backup RB last year.

You haven't looked up any real numbers in this regard, but I have.

If anything, you crack me up. :)
Click to expand...

How many of those are QB,WR, RB other than Romo a@nd Marian?
 
Last edited:
76Texan said:
Honestly I never look up to see if any QB or WR that served as a backup RB on NFL teams, so I don't know.

What does that have anything to do with the price of tea in China?
Click to expand...

Feeling obtuse today? You were talking about teams averaging 3 starting udfas. My implied point in the question was you aren't Going to find them at the premier positions so your stat is irrelevant in a conversation about a RB or QB.
 
infantrycak said:
Feeling obtuse today? You were talking about teams averaging 3 starting udfas. My impliexld point in the question was you aren't Going to find them at the premier positions so your stat is irrelevant in a conversation about a QB.
Click to expand...

To begin with, we're not talking about QB in this thread.

Secondly, other positions on the team have their own importance.

Let's take a look at the Patriots roster last year just for fun anyway.
Let's see where the low round draft picks, journeymen, and UDFAs were.

Offense:

QB - Brady, 6th rd

#1 receiver - Welker, UDFA, journeyman

#2 receiver - Lloyd, journeyman

#3 receiver double up as backup RB -
Woodhead (40 catches, 3 TDs - just 1 fewer than AJ;
Second leading rusher on the team in attempts, yards, and TDs
76-301-4TDs; this guy has 3 more TDs than AJ did.)
You don't think he was important?

3rd leading rusher in yards after Woodhead - Bolden, rookie UDFA

Starting Center - Wendell, UDFA in 2009

Starting RG - Connolly, UDFA in 2005, cut by Jax, out of the NFL in 06 and 07

Defense:

DT - Kyle love, UDFA

RCB - Arrington

LCB - Talib, journeyman

Nickel back, also saw time at RCB - Dennard, rookie 7th rd

SS - Gregrory, UDFA journeyman.

As a group, these guys played a huge part on that team.
Together, they surpassed all the contributions made by guys drafted between the first through the fifth round by the Patriots or by acquisition.
 
76Texan said:
As a group, these guys played a huge part on that team.
Together, they surpassed all the contributions made by guys drafted between the first through the fifth round by the Patriots or by acquisition.
Click to expand...

Moving the target. Sorry the discussion was starters.

The statement above is delusional.
 
76Texan said:
To begin with, we're not talking about QB in this thread.

Secondly, other positions on the team have their own importance.

Let's take a look at the Patriots roster last year just for fun anyway.
Let's see where the low round draft picks, journeymen, and UDFAs were.

Offense:

QB - Brady, 6th rd

#1 receiver - Welker, UDFA, journeyman

#2 receiver - Lloyd, journeyman

#3 receiver double up as backup RB -
Woodhead (40 catches, 3 TDs - just 1 fewer than AJ;
Second leading rusher on the team in attempts, yards, and TDs
76-301-4TDs; this guy has 3 more TDs than AJ did.)
You don't think he was important?

3rd leading rusher in yards after Woodhead - Bolden, rookie UDFA

Starting Center - Wendell, UDFA in 2009

Starting RG - Connolly, UDFA in 2005, cut by Jax, out of the NFL in 06 and 07

Defense:

DT - Kyle love, UDFA

RCB - Arrington

LCB - Talib, journeyman

Nickel back, also saw time at RCB - Dennard, rookie 7th rd

SS - Gregrory, UDFA journeyman.

As a group, these guys played a huge part on that team.
Together, they surpassed all the contributions made by guys drafted between the first through the fifth round by the Patriots or by acquisition.
Click to expand...

:deadhorse Again, still...
 
drs23 said:
:deadhorse Again, still...
Click to expand...

Hey, I said I was doing that for fun, LOL!

But it really is a subject that quite a few many fans have yet to be debunked of the myth. Too many people think lowly of the cast-offs, low round picks and UDFA players.

Think of Belichik for a moment.
He bombed on high round picks (let say first to fourth round) just as much as other good coaches, but where he made a name for himself is with the lower draft picks and UDFAs and cast-offs.
That's where he's been having paramount success.

But let to back to the RBs.
The Shanahan/Kubiak regime has been notorious for getting production out of no-name RBs.
I actually just looked up the history since Shanahan became HC of the Broncos.
Overall, the guys they drafted in the first three rounds don't compare with the no-name RBs.

So I had to disagree strongly with Arlingtontexan who said that you can't count on journeymen and UDFAs at backup RB.
Heck, the statement I made above include ALL RBs ever ran in this system (not just backups.)

If anything, a case can be made against drafting players high at certain positions where there's a good risk of injury. The return on investment had to include the risk.

It is really an interesting discussion/research/debate if we all agree to be civilized about it.

The landscape is always changing.
What worked five years ago stands a good chance to be on the decline today.
Convention wisdom has to adapt to the time.
 
drs23 said:
:deadhorse Again, still...
Click to expand...

Hey, I said I was doing that for run, LOL!

But it really is a subject that quite a few many fans have yet to be debunked of the myth. Too many people think lowly of the cast-offs, low round picks and UDFA players.

Think of Belichik for a moment.
He bombed on high round picks (let say first to fourth round) just as much as other good coaches, but where he made a name for himself is with the lower draft picks and UDFAs and cast-offs.
That's where he's been having paramount success.

But let to back to the RBs.
The Shanahan/Kubiak regime has been notorious for getting production out of no-name RBs.
I actually just looked up the history since Shanahan became HC of the Broncos.
Overall, the guys they drafted in the first three rounds don't compare with the no-name RBs.

So I had to disagree strongly with Arlingtontexan who said that you can't count on journeymen and UDFAs at backup RB.
Heck, the statement I made above include ALL RBs ever ran in this system (not just backups.)

If anything, a case can be made against drafting players high at certain positions where there's a good risk of injury. The return on investment had to include the risk.

It is really an interesting discussion/research/debate if we all agree to be civilized about it.

On a side note, The landscape is always changing.
What worked five years ago stands a good chance to be on the decline today.
Convention wisdom has to adapt to the time.
 
infantrycak said:
Moving the target. Sorry the discussion was starters.

The statement above is delusional.
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Even this discussion about "starters" was a moved target from the discussion about moving an experienced player, cheap player like Ben Tate. I suggested that the Texans have not even entertained the notion of trading Ben Tate so that a journeyman RB, and a couple of UDFAs could be back-up to an already hobbled Foster. he saw the term UDFAs and had a "fact" that he wanted show-off even though it had nothing to do the silliness that the Texans are going to trade Ben Tate.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I am predicting Foster, Tate, Karim on the 53 man. Greg Jones can run the ball some in "break glass in case of emergency" situation.

woods and Johnson have had moments, but not enough. guessing either or both will be on the PS.

Tate is not even being considered to be traded. He is the only back who has had success as an every down player. if you have aspirations of a Superbowl can't run out a career journeyman and a couple of UDFAs.
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There are a lot of Tate haters on this board. Understandable, as he has disappointed in being able to stay on the field. At the same time, the wannabe GMs think the Texans could get a high pick for him. Huh?

I am not that impressed with Karim or the UDFAs. I don't see an Arian Foster. More like Darius Walkers and Samkon Gados. I think the Texans would love to get a vet back like Derrick Ward off waivers. I doubt that happens. Let's just hope that Foster and Tate can collectively stay healthy.
 
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