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The OLBs

Tailgate

Tailgate

Fall of Hame
Its still early, but our OLBs seem to be our glaring weakness on D moving forward.

With Cush back, the signing of Mays, Sharpton healthy, Joseph 100%, Ed Reed, Swearinger, flashes of upgrade from Mitchell... We have the makings of a nasty D health considered. But we really need an outside pass rush to become truly dominant imo. Who is going to step it up at OLB this year?

Candidates:

Reed - I have little faith in him as more than a high motor back up special teams player at the moment. Looked average again on Friday.

Mercilus - The dude had some sacks in his rookie campaign. But they seemed to all be effort sacks much in the mold of Reed.

T Williams - I really liked this pick but I cant find a single positive review thus far.

Montgomery - Some loved this pick, but I didnt get it. Hoping I was wrong. Dude needs to get over the injury/conditioning cloud that seems to be hovering over him early on. This guy my have the most upside.

Braman - Love the guy, but if he doesnt surface soon not sure if he ever will.

Jefferson - Another Brayman in the making? Chicken legs concern me, but love his explosiveness.

I think we are all going to be keeping a close eye on this crew. Right now, I see a whole lot of average at best. The most important thing to me is for Whitney to prove himself a first round pick. I need at least flashes, like yesterday.
 
I'm with ya, Tailgate. I'm just as worried about run defense as I am pass rush, though.
It's gonna be Reed and Merci starting but I'm thinking we'll be seeing more of Jefferson as the season goes on and he gets his bulk and strength up.

Braman hasn't had a great camp, from what I understand. Just a career ST star, from what I can tell. He doesn't appear to have a very high football IQ.

I really liked the Montgomery pick. I'm really hoping the leaders on the D and the coaching staff can give him an attitudinal adjustment and keep him from going all Travis Johnson on us. Has some very good upside, but is off to a disasterous start.

T. Williams should be good depth in the future. He'll probably contribute before Montgomery and I've heard/read decent reports on him in TC.
 
i really liked what i saw from braman. he did a good job of using leverage and didnt allow the linemen to get their hands on him, using his very long arms to make separation. he definitely seems to be paying attention in class. i dont know that he'll develop into anything more, but i would certainly keep him around as a backup and special teamer - that's a guy you want on your team.

everyone else? well i hope watt and ninja have big years getting to the passer, because our linebackers outside of cushing are pretty bad.
 
I've heard nothing but negative reports on Williams. I want to see more of Braman with the 1st unit. Some guys are just not really good practice players, but find an extra gear when the lights come on. I thought Reed looked quick the other night, and I think Merci will be ok. Between Sam, Willie, and Braman we'll be fine. Williams looks like he might be the odd man out right now. Wouldn't be surprised if we picked someone up who gets waived after TC as well.
 
Scooter said:
i really liked what i saw from braman. he did a good job of using leverage and didnt allow the linemen to get their hands on him, using his very long arms to make separation. he definitely seems to be paying attention in class. i dont know that he'll develop into anything more, but i would certainly keep him around as a backup and special teamer - that's a guy you want on your team.

everyone else? well i hope watt and ninja have big years getting to the passer, because our linebackers outside of cushing are pretty bad.
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I think Joe Mays will be a good player for us. I'm not as worried about the ILB's as I am the OLB's.
 
DocBar said:
I think Joe Mays will be a good player for us. I'm not as worried about the ILB's as I am the OLB's.
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Yeah, that's kinda freaking me out.

Before TC, I was really, really worried about the ILBs. Now? That's not worrying me as much.

I'm not too worried about Brooks Reed. But I need Mercilus to make a big leap from year 1 to year 2 and I need some of these rookies to step up, otherwise we're looking at picking up a street FA to stick into the rotation. I'm not expecting Braman to be anything other that ST and maybe situational pass rush.

Jefferson and Trevardo Williams ended up in coverage a lot more than I expected.

:wadepalm:

We've got a long way to go with our OLBs.
 
Scooter said:
i really liked what i saw from braman. he did a good job of using leverage and didnt allow the linemen to get their hands on him, using his very long arms to make separation. he definitely seems to be paying attention in class. i dont know that he'll develop into anything more, but i would certainly keep him around as a backup and special teamer - that's a guy you want on your team.

everyone else? well i hope watt and ninja have big years getting to the passer, because our linebackers outside of cushing are pretty bad.
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I think some people are too negative on Mercilus. He didn`t get that much playing time last season, still got lots of sacks (for a rookie) and a couple of forced fumbles. Reed is more of a LB to stop the run and being relentless, but that`s ok for one side of the field. He can and he will get some sacks, just not double digit sacks.

Yeah, OLB is a question mark, but we need to give those young guys some time... With some more help from the inside they should take the next step.
 
It's too early to tell, but I'm starting to get a little worried about these guys. The lack of a pass rush from these guys is what will sink this team! JJ (S)Watt can't do it all by himself........again!:wadepalm:
 
I stated before TC started this was my biggest area for concern. Im hoping someone decent gets cut or just released in the next couple weeks. I don't have ANY confidence in anyone currently on the roster at this position.
 
Im not overly concerned about our starters, but depth is a concern. We will know what its like in 2 weeks vs the Saints. If we continue to get pressure up the gut, we will eventually open up the lanes outside.
 
amazing80 said:
Im not overly concerned about our starters, but depth is a concern. We will know what its like in 2 weeks vs the Saints. If we continue to get pressure up the gut, we will eventually open up the lanes outside.
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Actually, getting Cushing, Watt, & Antonio on the field is probably going to make these scrubs look like Pro Bowlers.
 
to me, our outside linebackers have been unremarkable for a while now. The Viking game didn't help. The best OLB we've had lately is Mario Williams. Too early to panic though. I'm hoping they continue to grow into their roles.
 
thunderkyss said:
Actually, getting Cushing, Watt, & Antonio on the field is probably going to make these scrubs look like Pro Bowlers.
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Exactly. I have no worries at all about the LB's, Not a single one. It's gonna be fine once the big dogs get on the field with them. Then they'll find the going a lot easier as the offense tries to control Watt, Cushing, and Smith (and Mitchell from the looks of things)

We'll be fine.... unless the injury bug shows up. Nobody can entirely overcome that.
 
maybe I was drunk but it seemed to me that Reed was collapsing the pocket the plays he was in there leading to some sacks by interior defensive linemen. I don't think you can judge an OLB solely by sacks. Who else will have the experience to drop back when asked? I think Reed starts opposite Mercilus with the youngsters rotating in or playing situational roles. As some of you have said, funny what will happen when Sgt Slaughter and the Ninja get back to work.
 
Hervoyel said:
Exactly. I have no worries at all about the LB's, Not a single one. It's gonna be fine once the big dogs get on the field with them. Then they'll find the going a lot easier as the offense tries to control Watt, Cushing, and Smith (and Mitchell from the looks of things)

We'll be fine.... unless the injury bug shows up. Nobody can entirely overcome that.
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The :koolaid: is :cjeremy635: with this one. :hothboy:

:kitten:
 
Reed looked good to me. He looked like he lost a little weight, but he still looks strong. He looks good rushing and playing on the edge. I'm not worried about him.

And tuggle actually looked good to me. He looks stronger than the other guys that played out there. Willie has some talent. But he stands up too high at times and is easily pushed around. I thi k he's good enough to be a back up this year and pass rush guy.

Trevardo is fast but that's it.

I thought Braman looked really good. I think he is ready to take meaningful snaps. Hopefully merciless has improved. If he has I thi k our LB corps as a whole is going to be pretty good. I think we are going to be fine there.
 
The Texans showed a ton of 4-man fronts last year;
I think Jamison might see some snaps here, the way he played last night.
 
I've been disappointed that Braman has had such a poor camp; and my expectations for the dude has taken a bit of a nosedive. But he was the only OLB to get to the QB against the Vikings. Three more preseason games; we'll see who's the "sack leader" by the end of camp.
 
Rey said:
I thought Braman looked really good. I think he is ready to take meaningful snaps. Hopefully merciless has improved. If he has I thi k our LB corps as a whole is going to be pretty good. I think we are going to be fine there.
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In addition to changing my critique of Pleasant (in another thread) I'm changing my position of Braman. I think he'll look really strong when we get 99, 94, & 56 in the game.
 
Rey said:
I know sharpton plays inside, but I though he looked good as well.
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I thought he did well, too; however, there were too few snaps between him and Mays to evaluate either one of them.

Knowing that, what was your impression of the two?
 
76Texan said:
I thought he did well, too; however, there were too few snaps between him and Mays to evaluate either one of them.

Knowing that, what was your impression of the two?
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I thought they both looked good. Both looked like they were ready to play. Of course like you said, not enough snaps though. Couldn't really see how they'd hold up in pass coverage for multiple snaps, but I saw mays make a nice stop on a run up the middle and sharpton impressed me most with his blitzing. Seemed to have a good feel for that. I think if they'd have been here last year they'd have been better than the guys we had.

And I think either guy would look fine next to Cushing. However, I'm leaning more towards sharpton. He looked fast and decisive on the field.
 
Rey said:
I thought they both looked good. Both looked like they were ready to play. Of course like you said, not enough snaps though. Couldn't really see how they'd hold up in pass coverage for multiple snaps, but I saw mays make a nice stop on a run up the middle and sharpton impressed me most with his blitzing. Seemed to have a good feel for that. I think if they'd have been here last year they'd have been better than the guys we had.

And I think either guy would look fine next to Cushing. However, I'm leaning more towards sharpton. He looked fast and decisive on the field.
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I just went back and looked at them carefully, and I agree with you.
I tend to lean toward Sharpton as well.
He was solid to very strong in all the snaps.

The only thing I'd have liked to see from Mays is to take on the OL a little stronger on one play (that or work to get off the guy a little better.)
On another run play, I'm not sure of the assignment, so I can't really complain.
But if it was a one-gap assignment, I would have like for him to attack that gap sooner. There's a possibility for for a TFL or little to no gain there (with help from others.)

Overall, I think they both did well in the limited number of snaps.
 
Tailgate said:
Anyone feeling any better about this unit after Saturday?
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I've still got question marks.

I'm hoping Mercilus is the guy we drafted him to be because that's going to make a lot of our issues on the outside disappear. But we haven't seen it, yet.

What I've been kinda surprised about is that after all the talk, we're starting Tuggle at Sam and Reed at Will. I would have expected Reed at Sam.

Willie Jefferson and Braman have flashes on passing downs but they scare me against the run. Willie seems to have the edge and I think, with a little experience, he's going to develop into something special. Unfortunately, we need that "something special" now.

If it was up to me given what I've seen so far, I'd go with:
1. Mercilus
2. Reed
3. Tuggle
4. Jefferson
5. Braman

And that leaves Trevardo Williams and Sam Montgomery either IR'd or on the PS. Those two have really got to make a lot of progress the next two weeks or it's going to make some decisions really, really hard.
 
Tailgate said:
Anyone feeling any better about this unit after Saturday?
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Nope! I don't think we'll see Trevardo and Montgomery contributing much on anything but STs this season. So that leaves us with:

Jefferson
Tuggle
Mercilus
Reed
Braman

Unspectacular if you ask me. Plus, other than Reed, weaker against the run.
 
We should brace ourselves for a real surprise, maybe even a shocker at this position when it comes to selection of the final 53-man roster because it is absolutely critical to have effective outside backers in the 3-4 defense and we are seeing much more production from undrafted players than the Draft pics.
The starters, Mercilus & Reed, are the givens but after that all bets are off with either OLB Draft pics here, Williams & Montgomery, even with a very consevative HC like Kubiak. He's got to get production here to have a really successful defense and also don't forget that Wade Phillips might have even more input about who makes the final roster on the defense than Kubiak.
 
It's too early to start counting chicken.
These draft picks all had seen injury that has been keeping them behind schedule.
They didn't put them on IR, so it looks to me that they are leaning toward keeping them.
But who knows, we might see one or two guys mysteriously suffer an injury in the next two games and getting IRed.
 
ProFootballFocus is rating preseason games this year -- cumulatively for OLBs taking >25% of defensive snaps...

Willie Jefferson, then Brian Braman have "plus" grades so far. Wille is 3rd/79; Brian 7th/79.

None have negative overall grades, but Tuggle & Reed have "minus" pass rush grades and Trevardo has a "minus" run grade.

These are super small samples that, even though "normalized", still lend weight to players with more snaps. The small sample size overweights a single play. And this is all against varied, typically poor, competition.

My eyes haven't seen the issue with Reed on pass rush; but I have seen Willie get stoned when the lineman gets his hands on him. I have seen Tuggle struggle in pass rush and Trevardo struggle against the run.

So what I envision is a bunch of strategic substituting.
laugh-1.gif
 
HOU-TEX said:
Nope! I don't think we'll see Trevardo and Montgomery contributing much on anything but STs this season. So that leaves us with:

Jefferson
Tuggle
Mercilus
Reed
Braman

Unspectacular if you ask me. Plus, other than Reed, weaker against the run.
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I was telling my wife how impressed I was at Tuggle's ability to set the edge... I thought he did a good job. I was also impressed with how deep he got on some of his drops... a lot of those timed I wondered why he got so deep, but that's another story.

I think Tuggle will be fine against the run. It's possible he can help our pass defense. The only thing I don't like about him is I see no value as a pass rusher.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2
 
DX-TEX said:
Saints just cut Chase Thomas. Anyone know anything about him? His pre draft info looked pretty damn good actually:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1631925/chase-thomas

WOW! BRB wanted us to draft him in the 2nd round:

http://www.battleredblog.com/2013/1/18/3892440/scouting-report-chase-thomas
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Thomas was a nice college football who maxed out his ability with smart and effort. The NFL game is just a little too fast for him; that was my opinion of him during draft time. If he can somehow works to get better in his flexibility and quickness/speed, he could get another shot somewhere.
 
76Texan said:
Thomas was a nice college football who maxed out his ability with smart and effort. The NFL game is just a little too fast for him; that was my opinion of him during draft time. If he can somehow works to get better in his flexibility and quickness/speed, he could get another shot somewhere.
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Cant be any worse than what we have.
 
Outside linebacker Whitney Mercilus has missed the first two preseason games with a hamstring injury. The coaches were hoping to get him back for Monday’s light practice, but it won’t happen, according to coach Gary Kubiak.

Mercilus, last year’s first-round pick who registered six sacks as a rookie, was promoted to the starting lineup in place of Connor Barwin. With Mercilus on the sideline, Justin Tuggle, an undrafted rookie, has started the first two games.

Willie Jefferson, another undrafted rookie, comes off the bench on the weak side. Jefferson recorded his first sack against the Dolphins. He had two tackles for a loss.

Rookie Trevardo Williams played in the second half and produced two sacks. He missed time after a cyst was removed from his foot.

Veteran Bryan Braman had a sack against the Dolphins, giving him 1 1/2. The Texans have 10 sacks in two games.

The performances of Braman, Williams, Jefferson and Tuggle gives the coaches confidence in the backup outside positions.
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http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...injury-paves-way-for-other-young-linebackers/
 
If Tuggle, Jefferson and Braman make the roster ill feel good about our LB corps. If we go into the season with merci, brooks, trevardo and mont as rotation guys I'm going to probably need some hard liquor for Sundays this fall.
 
Oh...and I'm not worried about the inside guys. Those guys are going to make some plays this season. Cush, mays and sharpton is a solid trio of inside guys. Dobbins is gravy.

I'm much more worried about the pass rush and Joseph. Jjo starting to look a little suspect. Not playing like a top tier corner. Season 1 was his highest point. Kareem has been better for over a year now.

Danieal hasn't been all that hot either.
 
OLB's gonna be fine. Least of our problems. In fact the entire defense is going to be rolling this year barring injuries.

What kills the 2013 season if anything can kill it will be OL play.

(again, other than injuries. Injuries change everything)
 
Hervoyel said:
OLB's gonna be fine. Least of our problems. In fact the entire defense is going to be rolling this year barring injuries.

What kills the 2013 season if anything can kill it will be OL play.

(again, other than injuries. Injuries change everything)
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What have you seen from Reed and Mercilous to make you feel that way? I feel this is the worst unit on the entire team
 
Rey said:
Oh...and I'm not worried about the inside guys. Those guys are going to make some plays this season. Cush, mays and sharpton is a solid trio of inside guys. Dobbins is gravy.

I'm much more worried about the pass rush and Joseph. Jjo starting to look a little suspect. Not playing like a top tier corner. Season 1 was his highest point. Kareem has been better for over a year now.

Danieal hasn't been all that hot either.
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When both Watt and Cushing get on the field together, the back end should look better.

At least, I hope so.
 
drs23 said:
Maybe when Cush gets his 'game legs' back. He looked pretty rusty to me.
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He may have been 'football' rusty, but he had his quicks back. The 1st play had to knock a lot of that rust off, because he was pancaked.

I like he and Mays together working the inside. Another game or two together and they should be fine. The OLBs? Pffft! Haven't seen anything to make me feel any better than last season.
 
HOU-TEX said:
He may have been 'football' rusty, but he had his quicks back. The 1st play had to knock a lot of that rust off, because he was pancaked.

I like he and Mays together working the inside. Another game or two together and they should be fine. The OLBs? Pffft! Haven't seen anything to make me feel any better than last season.
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Yeah, somebody really knocked the rust off of him.
Cush needs to send the guy a thank you note. :lol:
 
DX-TEX said:
What have you seen from Reed and Mercilous to make you feel that way? I feel this is the worst unit on the entire team
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To me, Reed looks more lean this year. He looks quicker to me. But he still plays plenty strong.

I think he's getting ready to have a really good year. Reed is so good against runs to his side. To me it looks like he's going to be better pass rush wise this year as well.

I wish I could see merciless though.
 
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