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Casserly to Stay?

Nighthawk

Nighthawk

Rookie
A terrifying report from the rumor mongering ProFootballTalk--

CASSERLY WILL STAY

Although plenty of league insiders believe that Texans G.M. Charley Casserly should join coach Dom Capers in the ranks of the soon-to-be-unemployed, word is that owner Bob McNair will keep the guy who hired the coach who hasn't done jack in four years on the job.

Capers, however, is definitely gone, meaning that Casserly will get another chance to hire the right guy to lead the team.

Of course, the new coach won't be in a position to give any input as to whether the team should keep quarterback David Carr for 2006, since an $8 million option bonus is due to the No. 1 pick from the 2002 draft at the end of the regular season. We think that the team should choose not to pay Carr the money, allow him to become a free agent, and then if the new coach decides that Carr is the best fit for the new coach's offensive strategy, Carr should be re-signed.
 
Never been to that website before and now that I have seen it I'm ok with that. One of the first things I could read was "ATTENTION! WANT TO PLACE AN AD ON PFTALK?"

From the look of things I'm surprised they have room for more!

I'm also ok with Casserly staying another year. I thought it was probably inevitable anyway so it doesn't come as a shock if that rumor is in fact true.
 
Yeah, it was probably inevitable, but I still don't have to like it. Casserly gets one more chance to find the right HC. :cool:
 
HJam72 said:
Yeah, it was probably inevitable, but I still don't have to like it. Casserly gets one more chance to find the right HC. :cool:
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Me either. My gut tells me that having Casserly here is going to limit the choices in the HC hunt. I don't really believe that Casserly has failed as badly in the talent finding department as many people do though so that part doesn't upset me.

We'll just have to wait and see (and hope).
 
Scott D said:
He failed in the drafting dept. when he signed up Buchannon and released Glenn.
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That was what the coaches wanted. They didn't think they would have a problem with Glenn. Glenn got ticked off at something and I still say we will never know what it was. Glenn took DROB under his belt and had no problems tuitoring the rookie. I think it was very personal too.
 
Charlie has been working on keeping his job and pushing the blame on Capers since we were 0-4. I'm not too surprised about this however if he does stay and doesn't have some personell responsibilities taken away you can almost guarantee that Jimmy Johnson will not coach for the Texans.
 
I believe Cass will be back. He will let the Coach go, fire some of his assistants and McNair will hire a consultant to come in and shadow Cass' moves. It will be right out of corporate restructuring 101.
 
TigerV1 said:
Charlie has been working on keeping his job and pushing the blame on Capers since we were 0-4.
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I assume you have something other than "a keen analytical mind" with which to support this statement?
 
One thing to consider when deciding if you want Casserly to stay or go is how much you like our current roster. Do you cast more blame for our current situation on poor coaching or poor play? Would you like to see some of our as yet unproven players have a chance to succeed, or do you want as thorough a house cleaning as possible given contract, salary cap, and other ramifications?

The reason to consider this is that if Casserly goes we will probably have more turnover because the new GM and coach will want their own players rather than "Casserly's guys" as much as possible. Conversely, if Casserly stays we will see more of "his guys" stay on the team.

I am in the "keep Casserly and see what some of our team can do under competent coaching" camp. This might lead to a shorter period of rebuilding.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I believe Cass will be back. He will let the Coach go, fire some of his assistants and McNair will hire a consultant to come in and shadow Cass' moves. It will be right out of corporate restructuring 101.
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Think you're right, Cass will hang one for one more ride, entire coaching staff will be leaving unless the new HC wants any of them to stay.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I believe Cass will be back. He will let the Coach go, fire some of his assistants and McNair will hire a consultant to come in and shadow Cass' moves. It will be right out of corporate restructuring 101.
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Yeah , Casserly still has a few people to throw under the buss before his card is punched , Capers and Fangio to name just two .....We can hope he's gone but odds are that the "Riverboat Gambler" returns . :brickwall
 
chuckm said:
I assume you have something other than "a keen analytical mind" with which to support this statement?
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No need to be sarcastic.

I don't have the links to the interviews, but on quite a few that I have read, he has made it sound like the problems are not with the player acquisitions(general manager), but rather with development (coaching). Tell ya what, if I find the links I will put them on there.
 
Runner said:
I am in the "keep Casserly and see what some of our team can do under competent coaching" camp. This might lead to a shorter period of rebuilding.
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or make it much, much, much longer.
 
Vinny said:
or make it much, much, much longer.
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Yeah, could go either way. This is a hard decision to make. Hopefully McNair has more information than we do and he can make the right choice. I go back and forth on Casserly in my mind and just finished posting to another thread about the mistakes he's made and what I'm afraid he'll do with the first overall pick if we get it (And it wasn't just a standard "Draft Reggie Bush" rant either).

It's hard to say. What do you think? Is this going to be our most interesting off-season ever or what?
 
Hervoyel said:
What do you think? Is this going to be our most interesting off-season ever or what?
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This offseason will definately go a long way in determining whether or not the Texans rebound to a respectable team quickly or slowly. If Casserley fails to fix some of the numerous problems that face this team then chances are we'll be having a discussion next year about how we will be able to coax Ron Wolf out of retirement. In essence we would put of rebuilding another year, and we'd have to wait as our new GM slowly but surely replaced Casserley's players with his own.

I'm hoping that a new coaching staff and a good offseason will go a long way in helping ease the Texans woes. Imagine if you dare a OLine that doesn't have a spot reserved for the likes of Fred Weary, and imagine that OLine with an infusion of talented young players on the depth chart. Imagine Carr actually being able to have time to take a 5 step or, dare I dream it, a 7 step drop. How about the defense? Imagine a defense that is no longer a swinging gate with a broken latch. Imagine that latch is fixed and we see a defense that actually plays tough and smart when the 4th quarter rolls around and the game is on the line. Best of all though. Imagine looking down at the sidelines at a Texans game and seeing a Texans coaching staff that is competent and is capable of getting the best out of their players while gearing the game plan towards their strengths.


BTW Sorry for all the imagine stuff. Kind of gives a John Lennon vibe. That's what you get when you listen to music and post at the same time.
 
Whenever someone says fire the coach, the obvious reply is: who's out there to replace him? I almost never see the same question asked about Casserly. Is there really a solid GM prospect out there, looking for a job? I'm disgusted with the condition of this team's roster, but I don't know that there's a hot candidate out there. Lots of HC changes coming this offseason. What about GMs?

I hear Matt Millen might be available. :cool:
 
Vinny said:
or make it much, much, much longer.
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Yes it's hard to determine what we should do. We'll all be better able to say what the right thing to do was now in a couple of years, hindsight being what it is and all.

I'm going to use Ragone as an example of what I'm talking about here with the following caveats: He's probably not the best example, I'm not saying he should be playing now, I don't know if he is a "Casserly guy" guy or not. This is just an example. I'm assuming the coaches are gone.

Ragone's contract his up this year. The Texans could tender him a one year offer for the 4-year veteran minimum, which is I think around $450K. If Casserly is here, we might do that. If Casserly is gone, we might let him walk because there is always more turnover with a complete GM/coaches regime change. The question becomes can we replace him with equivalent talent for the same money, would we have to pay more to get less, or could we pay less to get more?

Now we have to do that for every player on the team that is in a contract year or is "cuttable" because their cap hit would be manageable, etc. In the final analysis at the end of the season, do we get more bang for the buck to keep our current players who would be on the bubble (the probable outcome of the keep Casserly option), or are we better off to do a bigger housecleaning (the probable outcome of the fire Casserly option)?
 
If he stays I just hope the Babin call was Capers begging CC for the next Kevin Greene. Same with the PB disaster if you scratch those off CC's record you can argue he's done a pretty good job. Of course those are two big ifs the answers of which we'll probably never know. ;)
 
I disagree completely. At 1-11, the team's coaching staff and front office need a total revamp.

When I look at the team's drafting, trading and free agent signings, I can't conclude Casserly has done a good job. Quite the opposite, actually. I also think he's overrated for what he did in Washington, basically taking over after Bobby Beathard had already built the team. Who were some of Casserly's #1 picks in Washington? Let's see: Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Desmond Howard, among others.

I don't want Casserly anywhere near our draft room in 2006. If he is retained, I will give serious thought to selling my PSL's for whatever I can get for them. No sense throwing good money after bad, and the emotional cost has been high.
 
I'd almost bet that Casserly could get the Giants #1 pick for Kris Brown if free agency was still active :rolleyes:
 
CowboysTexansFan said:
If he is retained, I will give serious thought to selling my PSL's for whatever I can get for them. No sense throwing good money after bad, and the emotional cost has been high.
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Keep me in mind. I might just be able to take them off your hands :)
 
I won't stomach Casserly staying. Even Bud Adams was smart enough to fire morons in his front office. Casserly is more responsible for this mess than Capers. I also don't care who's idea was who's when it came to drafting or signing certain players. Casserly had the final say in all decisions. If Capers wanted someone that didn't make sense then Casserly should have stepped in and prevented it.

Houston fans have suffered enough, from the Oilers leaving to now this mess. I sure hope this report is unfounded. This team is more than likely going to have the first pick or at least top 3 pick. Now is the time to start over again and starting over again with the same person in charge makes no sense. I will cringe if Asserly is the guy in charge making those draft decisions and HC decision. This guy has done NOTHING to prove he is a worthy NFL level GM. His track record in Washington was atrocious.
 
The Preacher said:
If he stays I just hope the Babin call was Capers begging CC for the next Kevin Greene.
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I don't have a link, but have heard that Fangio has admitted that Babin wouldn't be here if not for him - paisans stick together, right. And of course
Fangio is Capers alter ego. But the Hollings pick - the worst of all and don't
know how Casserly could wiggle out of taking the balme for that gem of an
idea.
 
It looks like Casserly still has some of the press in his corner. Here is Richard Justice's take from the Chron:

Link

BALTIMORE - Dom Capers should do something bold this morning. Like fire Vic Fangio.

Maybe it's too late for Capers to save his own job. Maybe the Texans are too far gone.

Bob McNair may already have decided to fire them all. That means you, too, Charley Casserly.

We interrupt for an unpopular opinion.

Casserly should not be fired.

Got that?
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I don't understand how Casserly retains his title as a so-called draft expert. His best work was over a decade ago with the Skins. Yet, so many in the media still think he is one of the top GMs around regardless of his actual results in recent years.
 
Who cares what Justice thinks? He apparently has a good relationship with Casserly from their days in Washington, D.C. together, and that's fine, but I'm less than impressed with Justice's acumen and judgment.

Just refer to some of the dumb articles Justice wrote about the Astros early in the last baseball season.
 
CowboysTexansFan said:
Who cares what Justice thinks? He apparently has a good relationship with Casserly from their days in Washington, D.C. together, and that's fine, but I'm less than impressed with Justice's acumen and judgment.

Just refer to some of the dumb articles Justice wrote about the Astros early in the last baseball season.
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I generally share your opinion on this topic, I have yet to see much of a legit news quip out of him.
 
ATX_Texan said:
His best work was over a decade ago with the Skins. Yet, so many in the media still think he is one of the top GMs around regardless of his actual results in recent years.
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What did he do in Washington? Someone please tell me. We already went through all of his drafts and they were worse than what he had done here. If I will say anything positive about Casserly it is that he has improved slightly in drafting since he has been here. While Carr hasn't been real good, he is a lot better than Heath Schuler. I think it is also safe to say Andre Johnson is better than Desmond Howard. HOWEVER, his personel decisions are still BAD. This team is 1-11 and that is the bottom line.

BTW ATX, your avatar rules!
 
Dude that sucks. I'd much prefer (and actually want) the opposite. Casserly goes, Capers gets 1 more year to prove himself. Casserly is definitely more responsible for Capers. JUST LOOK AT OUR DEFENSE NOW! Some "revamped" defense this year eh? Our defense is at least 2 years from back to being mediocre, when our defense was pretty decent. Casserly's decision making has royally screwed us over. HE NEEDS TO GO! Babin? Buchanon? I know you get busts, but for what we had to do to get these guys, it's just ridiculous.
 
Casserly needs to get fired. Not fixing the OL in four years is a crime.

Fire him and Capers. Hire Pat Kirwin to be GM and Chargers offensive coordinator Cam Cameron as head coach.
 
What did he do in Washington? Someone please tell me. We already went through all of his drafts and they were worse than what he had done here.
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Like I said before, I cannot understand the whole "Casserley is a great GM" tag the media and some fans have bestowed upon him. For what I can gather, there are certain people who really believe that he is responsible for the great Skins teams that Gibbs won all those Super Bowls with. They seem to forget that these teams were mainly built by Bobby Bethred (sorry about the spelling) in the pre-salary cap era. It is all ancient history with the last Skins Super Bowl checking in way back in 1991, 15 years ago.
 
jerek said:
Morlon Greenwood (for a good 7 mil more than any other team was offering him. Why were we the only ones to see the light?).
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Where did you get this salary information? Odd other teams were making offers before he even visited him--he came here first.
 
Charlie Casserly in most GM and professional circles has gone from the riverboat draft gambler to the guy that you may be able to swindle. As JJ said it you just have to convince him it "is a fair deal to both teams". That usually means one team got the better of it. Casserly is also seen as one of the great GM minds. The fact is the guy does not football, yeah he overspends, but he is from Washington he doesnt know any better. Casserly is also well respected as a man, it is just people have now come to understand that their are certain GMs and owners that can be swindled out of things and he happens to fall into the category.

I know you are going to want to know my sources. I have them wont tell you, and you can ignore it if you please to.
 
ATX_Texan said:
Like I said before, I cannot understand the whole "Casserley is a great GM" tag the media and some fans have bestowed upon him. For what I can gather, there are certain people who really believe that he is responsible for the great Skins teams that Gibbs won all those Super Bowls with. They seem to forget that these teams were mainly built by Bobby Bethred (sorry about the spelling) in the pre-salary cap era. It is all ancient history with the last Skins Super Bowl checking in way back in 1991, 15 years ago.
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Two things - First, I think most people that are not of the "Fire Casserly" club are not labeling him a great GM. Personally, I am of the opinion that he gets another year or two, but that doesn't mean I think he's great. It means I think the coaching staff has screwed up using the talent he's drafted and that's skewed the data. Second, Casserly was assistant GM for the Skins during Beathard's run and Casserly was credited with drafting several of the key contributors to the Super Bowl teams - off the top of my head, Brian Mitchell, Keith Bostic, and Joe Jacoby. He also drafted Mark Schlereth, but I cannot remember if he was around for the '91 Super Bowl. He is also credited with drafting 8 of the defensive starters for that '91 Super Bowl team. So while he hasn't done much of note here in Houston, he does have some laurels on which to hang his hat.

If our coaching staff was using the talent they've been given appropriately, we'd have a much better idea of what Casserly has actually done here. This team is far better, talent-wise, than 1-11 and Casserly is the one acquiring the talent.
 
eriadoc said:
Two things - First, I think most people that are not of the "Fire Casserly" club are not labeling him a great GM. Personally, I am of the opinion that he gets another year or two, but that doesn't mean I think he's great. It means I think the coaching staff has screwed up using the talent he's drafted and that's skewed the data.

......
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Well said. I fall into this group.
 
:texflag: You can be a good GM and not be good at making trades but you better know your limitations . I think if you have solid drafts and use free agency wisely ... you don't really have to trade much .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
:texflag: You can be a good GM and not be good at making trades but you better know your limitations . I think if you have solid drafts and use free agency wisely ... you don't really have to trade much .
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You are absolutely right. There are actually very few trades in the NFL, especially with the salary cap and the large signing bonuses that many players are seeking. Good teams are generally built through the draft and some free agency, with maybe a trade or two in there to pick up a key player (like the Patriots getting Dillon a couple years ago)
 
:texflag: I have looked up Bobby Beathards career because CC seems to get alot of credit for building the Redskins .

Bobby Beathard worked for the Chiefs as scout starting in 1963 and was with them when they won their Super Bowl . He was then hired as the Director of Player Persnonel by the Miami Dolphins . After a couple of Super Bowls with Miami , Beathard took over the GM spot for the Redskins in 1978 and three Super Bowls later left to do TV (89-90) . He then went to San Diego were they went to the SB in 94 . Its sad to say but even Bobby could'nt take Ryan Leaf and retired .

This was CCs mentor ... I hope he was'nt sleeping in class .
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
:texflag: I have looked up Bobby Beathards career because CC seems to get alot of credit for building the Redskins .

Bobby Beathard worked for the Chiefs as scout starting in 1963 and was with them when they won their Super Bowl . He was then hired as the Director of Player Persnonel by the Miami Dolphins . After a couple of Super Bowls with Miami , Beathard took over the GM spot for the Redskins in 1978 and three Super Bowls later left to do TV (89-90) . He then went to San Diego were they went to the SB in 94 . Its sad to say but even Bobby could'nt take Ryan Leaf and retired .

This was CCs mentor ... I hope he was'nt sleeping in class .
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Beathard promoted Casserly to Asst. GM in 1982, I believe it was, and it was Beathard who credited Casserly with drafting several of the players that won those Super Bowls. The Super Bowl in '91 was won without Beathard, but many of the players that Beathard drafted were there still. As I mentioned above, however, Casserly is credited with drafting 8 of the defensive starters for that team.

These posts keep coming up and though I am not necessarily defending Casserly (it wouldn't really hurt my feelings if he left or stayed), people keep throwing out this notion that Casserly has somehow ascended the NFL ranks through some ignorance on everyone else's part. These people are not stupid and Casserly's done some good things in his career. Whether he continues that run here is all I really care about.
 
These posts keep coming up and though I am not necessarily defending Casserly (it wouldn't really hurt my feelings if he left or stayed), people keep throwing out this notion that Casserly has somehow ascended the NFL ranks through some ignorance on everyone else's part. These people are not stupid and Casserly's done some good things in his career. Whether he continues that run here is all I really care about.
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It also seems that the idea that Casserly is a draft genius comes up just as often here and among the media. From what I have been able to gather, Casserly's greatest success came working for or with Beathard. In addition, it also helped that he had a Hall of Fame coach in Joe Gibbs making use of the talent. These great results also occured about 15 years ago, which is quite a long time ago in the "what have you done for me lately NFL". Since that time, he has been pretty hit and miss with the Skins and now the Texans. Mike Ditka was a great coach for the Bears in roughly the same period. However, that work years ago does not make him a great coach right now. There are several other GMs, like Bill Polian, that built more than one team that seem much more worthy of all the lavious praise that Casserly seems to get.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
:texflag: After Beathard's players and coaches left , what happened ?
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Brilliant hirings of head coaches like Richie Petitbon and Norv Turner. Great first round selections like Heath Schuler, Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, and Michael Westbrook.

Here is a quote from the NFL History Guide "The Redskins were one of the weaker teams in the league for much of the 1990s."

Here are most of Casserly's drafts in Washington. Grade'em out.

1999
1. Champ Bailey, CB, Georgia
2. Jon Jansen, T, Michigan
4. Nate Stimson, LB, Georgia Tech
5. Derek Smith, OL, Virginia Tech
6. Jeff Hall, K, Tennessee
7. Tim Alexander, WR, Oregon St.

1998
2. Stephen Alexander, TE, Oklahoma
3. Skip Hicks, RB, UCLA
4. Shawn Barber, LB, Richmond
5. Mark Fischer, C, Purdue
6. Pat Palmer, WR, Northwestern St.
7. David Terrell, CB, UTEP
7. Antwaune Ponds, LB, Syracuse

1997
1. Kenard Lang, DE, Miami
2. Greg Jones, LB, Colorado
3. Derek Smith, LB, Arizona St.
4. Albert Connell, WR, Texas A&M
5. Jamel Williams, S, Nebraska
5. Keith Thibodeaux, CB, N.W. Louisiana
5. Twan Russell, LB, Miami
5. Brad Badger, G, Stanford

1996
1. Andre Johnson, T, Penn State
4. Stephen Davis, RB, Auburn
5. Leomont Evans, S, Clemson
6. Kelvin Kinney, DE, Virginia St.
7. Jeremy Asher, LB, Oregon
7. Deandre Maxwell, WR, San Diego St.

1995
1. Michael Westbrook, WR, Colorado
2. Cory Raymer, C, Wisconson
3. Daryl Pounds, CB, Nicholls St.
4. Larry Jones, RB, Miami
5. Jamie Asher, TE, Louisville
5. Rich Owens, DE, Lehigh
6. Brian Thure, T, California
7. Scott Turner, CB, Illinois

1994
1. Heath Shuler, QB, Tennessee
2. Tre Johnson, T, Temple
3. Tydus Winans, WR, Fresno St.
3. Joe Patton, T, Alabama A&M
4. Kurt Haws, TE, Utah
6. Dexter Nottage, DE, Florida A&M
7. Gus Frerotte, QB, Tulsa

1993
1. Tom Carter, CB, Notre Dame
2. Reggie Brooks, RB, Notre Dame
3. Rick Hamilton, LB, Central Florida
3. Ed Bunn, P, UTEP
4. Sterling Palmer, DE, Florida St.
5. Greg Huntington, C, Penn St.
6. Darryl Morrison, CB, Arizona
6. Frank Wycheck, TE, Maryland
8. Lamont Hollinquest, LB, USC

1992
1. Desmond Howard, WR, Michigan
2. Shane Collins, DE, Arizona St.
3. Paul Siever, G, Penn St.
4. Chris Hakel, QB, William & Mary
6. Ray Rowe, TE, San Diego St.
7. Calvin Holmes, DB, USC
8. Darryl Moore, G, UTEP
9. Boone Powell, LB, Texas
10. Tony Barker, LB, Rice
11. Terry Smith, WR, Penn St.
12. Matt Elliott, C, Michigan

1991
1. Bobby Wilson, DT, Michigan St.
3. Ricky Ervins, RB, USC
6. Dennis Ransom, TE, Texas A&M
7. Keith Cash, WR, Texas
8. Jimmy Spencer, DB, Florida
9. Charles Bell, DB, Baylor
10. Cris Shale, P, Bowling Green
11. David Gulledge, S, Jacksonville St.
12. Keenan McCardell, WR, UNLV

1990
2. Andre Collins, LB, Penn St.
3. Moe Elewonibi, G, BYU
4. Cary Conklin, QB, Washington
5. Brian Mitchell, RB, S.W. Louisiana
6. Kent Walls, DT, Nebraska
9. Tim Moxley, G, Ohio St.
10. D’Juan Francisco, DB, North Dakota
10. Thomas Rayam, DT, Alabama
11. Jon Leverenz, LB, Minnesota
 
:texflag: If I'm not mistaken they traded up for Desmond Howard . CC traded with the Bengals for the rights to Desmond Howard . Funny thing is the Bengals took Carl Pickens in the 2nd round , who ended up a much better WR .
 
You guys are giving Beathard too much credit. Specifically, credit for being good in a cap era. Beathard bombed in the cap era, to include the Ryan Leaf pick. He also annually became the guy other teams fleeced, by giving up future #1's for selecting players he could have gotten one or two rounds later.

Casserly comes from the same mold. He and Beathard could build a team in the pre-cap era, but neither has accomplished anything since the cap was implemented. In fact, both led/are leading their teams towards permanent bottom feeders. The Chargers only began to climb out of the mess Beathard left them 5 years after he was gone.

Don't let Casserly continue to ruin the Texans. He needs to be fired.
 
Sitting here watching Cold Pizza and one of their analysts just said that he has heard from inside the Texans organazation that Casserly's job is safe and he will be here next season. He also said McNair WANTS to keep Capers here until at least next season, but probably will not because of poor ticket sales.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
:texflag: I have looked up Bobby Beathards career because CC seems to get alot of credit for building the Redskins .

Bobby Beathard worked for the Chiefs as scout starting in 1963 and was with them when they won their Super Bowl . He was then hired as the Director of Player Persnonel by the Miami Dolphins . After a couple of Super Bowls with Miami , Beathard took over the GM spot for the Redskins in 1978 and three Super Bowls later left to do TV (89-90) . He then went to San Diego were they went to the SB in 94 . Its sad to say but even Bobby could'nt take Ryan Leaf and retired .

This was CCs mentor ... I hope he was'nt sleeping in class .
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Beatherd also failed miserably in San Diego after being proclaimed a genius in Washington.

Luck and circumstance is the biggest factor in the draft. All teams trade off the same information for the most part.

When I evaluate a GM I'm more interested on how he executes during the draft, tade ups, trade downs, matching need and value to the player, etc...Self scouting is actually where I think the better GM's seperate themselves measuring what they have vs. the competition and what they need.

That's why I'd fire Casserly...it's not necessarily about who he drafted, it's about blowing several picks for Babin, the Buchanon fiasco, overevaluating the talent on his roster, etc...

Mostly, he needs to be fired cause your heading towards 1-15 in an era when you're not supposed to be rebuilding. Everyone has to be accountable for that. You don't want a losing culture like the Lions have where Ford suffers fools time and again.
 
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