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Eric Winston released by Chiefs

P

pissknocker

Waterboy
Ill be the first to say it bring him in for a looksee. Lets get arian back to form . We all like the caveman

If hes injured nevermind though

Sidenote-poor Luke joeckel gonna waste his talents in kc what a shame
 
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We have cap problems of our own so unless he is willing to play for not much more than Newton makes no way do I want him here.


Nevermind, they actually saved cap space. But only 700K and they are down a starting O-Line starter so unless they fill that with a guy making 700K or less they will have less cap space. Still don't want him.
 
Well, they now have $700K to find his replacement.

Just wonder what his new price tag is going to be now that he has some pocket money already.
 
76Texan said:
Well, they now have $700K to find his replacement.

Just wonder what his new price tag is going to be now that he has some pocket money already.
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His agent is Drew Rosenhaus, so I wouldn't count on anything beyond going to the highest bidder.
 
Overrated

But still better than Newton/Harris.

Setting up himself for a career in the media seems to be more important to Winston than improving his craft.
 
Looks like Smith & Kubiak knew what they were doing last year, makes them look a lot smarter now with the move to cut Winston a year ago.
 
Conflicted on this one.

His run blocking was better than anything we had on the right side in 2012.

But one has to wonder if he's thrown in the towel and is ready to pick up the microphone for a new career pursuit.

Then there's that whole messy "You cut me last year, Rick and Gary..." thing going on. With a splash of Drew HoseYourAss who is commanding the highest dollar on anything he represents. So....yeah, not much to see here. IMO.
 
steelbtexan said:
Overrated

But still better than Newton/Harris.

Setting up himself for a career in the media seems to be more important to Winston than improving his craft.
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Overrated? Well, overpaid (is that the same thing?). Still better than what the Texans currently have a RT. And I don't see Winston's aspirations getting in the way of his on field performance. He's just what he is - an average RT that's a better run than pass blocker.

JimBaker488 said:
Looks like Smith & Kubiak knew what they were doing last year, makes them look a lot smarter now with the move to cut Winston a year ago.
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I don't think cutting Winston was about being smart. They had to make cuts somewhere and thought Butler & Newton could handle the job. They were wrong. But, they had little choice but to cut him loose.
 
1 year with the chiefs and he got cut, his market value just hit the floor. unless we're planning on spending a first or second on offensive tackle (which i'd prefer), i'd most certainly try to bring him back. winston is what he is - a below average pass blocker but a heck of a run blocker who fits very will into our system. his pass pro is better than anyone else we could currently start at RT however, and somehow is solid in comparison to most RT's.

being unable to run consistently to the right side, the supposed strong side, was a huge hindrance late in the season. winston instantly improves that without any time needed to "gel". if we can get him at a hometown discount, rick smith should jump on it - again unless we plan on drafting the position.
 
Lucky said:
Overrated? Well, overpaid (is that the same thing?). Still better than what the Texans currently have a RT. And I don't see Winston's aspirations getting in the way of his on field performance. He's just what he is - an average RT that's a better run than pass blocker.


I don't think cutting Winston was about being smart. They had to make cuts somewhere and thought Butler & Newton could handle the job. They were wrong. But, they had little choice but to cut him loose.
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You mean two Wongs don't make one Wight? :hides:
 
Scooter said:
1 year with the chiefs and he got cut, his market value just hit the floor. unless we're planning on spending a first or second on offensive tackle (which i'd prefer), i'd most certainly try to bring him back. winston is what he is - a below average pass blocker but a heck of a run blocker who fits very will into our system. his pass pro is better than anyone else we could currently start at RT however, and somehow is solid in comparison to most RT's.

being unable to run consistently to the right side, the supposed strong side, was a huge hindrance late in the season. winston instantly improves that without any time needed to "gel". if we can get him at a hometown discount, rick smith should jump on it - again unless we plan on drafting the position.
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I don't know how much pressure Winston gave up, but the combo of Harris and Newton combined to allow the same number of sacks as Winston (but with one fewer penalty.) That with Newton playing hurt or less than 100% for awhile and Winston was averaging 7.5 sacks allowed the previous two years.

The only thing we can say for sure is that Winston was the better run blocker; but Newton and Harris didn't have much time to gel with the rest of the O-line, which never had continuity to start with - having 3 different guys playing at RG.

We don't know if Newton will improve enough next year, but we can't rule that out either.

I don't think the Texans can afford more than a couple of mils for a FA; but who knows, maybe they will surprise us ?!?
 
GP said:
Conflicted on this one.

His run blocking was better than anything we had on the right side in 2012.

But one has to wonder if he's thrown in the towel and is ready to pick up the microphone for a new career pursuit.

Then there's that whole messy "You cut me last year, Rick and Gary..." thing going on. With a splash of Drew HoseYourAss who is commanding the highest dollar on anything he represents. So....yeah, not much to see here. IMO.
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I'm with you. I think he's worth a look but not if Drew whatshisname wants top dollar.
Wonder what sort of inquires he'll get from other teams...
 
76Texan said:
I don't know how much pressure Winston gave up, but the combo of Harris and Newton combined to allow the same number of sacks as Winston (but with one fewer penalty.) That with Newton playing hurt or less than 100% for awhile and Winston was averaging 7.5 sacks allowed the previous two years.
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It's not just the sack numbers. Schaub's QB rating and yards per attempt were down in 2012 from 2011. He became uncomfortable in the pocket and was less willing to look downfield. Not suggesting the Texans go after Winston. Just that Newton/Harris were a downgrade.
 
Lucky said:
It's not just the sack numbers. Schaub's QB rating and yards per attempt were down in 2012 from 2011. He became uncomfortable in the pocket and was less willing to look downfield. Not suggesting the Texans go after Winston. Just that Newton/Harris were a downgrade.
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Playing better defenses than the previous year (IMO) makes it worse.
 
Brisco_County said:
I don't see how any of the parties involved could compromise enough to make it work.
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I have a strong feeling money will keep him from ever having a chance to talk to the Texans. There's enough teams with a need at RT, and cap room that I think he'll find a new home quickly - probably before the UFA signing period begins.

Miami and St. Louis are two potential landing spots that come to mind quickly. I'm not sure exactly where St. Louis is cap-wise, but they have a need and were interested in Winston last year.
 
76Texan said:
I don't know how much pressure Winston gave up, but the combo of Harris and Newton combined to allow the same number of sacks as Winston (but with one fewer penalty.) That with Newton playing hurt or less than 100% for awhile and Winston was averaging 7.5 sacks allowed the previous two years.

The only thing we can say for sure is that Winston was the better run blocker; but Newton and Harris didn't have much time to gel with the rest of the O-line, which never had continuity to start with - having 3 different guys playing at RG.

We don't know if Newton will improve enough next year, but we can't rule that out either.

I don't think the Texans can afford more than a couple of mils for a FA; but who knows, maybe they will surprise us ?!?
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my eye tells me they arent directly comparable. winston was more of an anchor where as newton was a piece. i cant claim to know the responsibilities of either, but it seemed to me that we gave winston twice the duty that newton saw. newton certainly had a few moments in the sun, and flashed a bit of pass pro, but the consistency was non existent and their run blocking isnt in the same league.

going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
 
i say does not hurt to put our name in the hat

i see more positive then neg if we make that move even bring in winston has a backup just in case knock on wood one of our tackles goes down
 
Scooter said:
my eye tells me they arent directly comparable. winston was more of an anchor where as newton was a piece. i cant claim to know the responsibilities of either, but it seemed to me that we gave winston twice the duty that newton saw. newton certainly had a few moments in the sun, and flashed a bit of pass pro, but the consistency was non existent and their run blocking isnt in the same league.

going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
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From 2008 to the rest of his time as a Texan, Winston had Mike Brisiel to his left. In zone runs the Guard has a ton more to do than a tackle. The bottom fell out of the o-line when MB broke his leg in 2011 and Winston was still in there. I think the Texans believed they would be able to keep MB so cut Winston.

Our shell shocked QB needs pass pro more than our all pro RB needs run blocking. How much of our non existent cap room do you want to put on the line? We have Cody, Barwin, and Quin (all starters) who are unrestricted. We are paper thin at ILB. No one has hard numbers on the cap but it is very likely any money you add will require a cap saving cut. Not just a cut but a cut that saves you cap space.
 
Scooter said:
my eye tells me they arent directly comparable. winston was more of an anchor where as newton was a piece. i cant claim to know the responsibilities of either, but it seemed to me that we gave winston twice the duty that newton saw. newton certainly had a few moments in the sun, and flashed a bit of pass pro, but the consistency was non existent and their run blocking isnt in the same league.

going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
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https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/11/28/sig-stat-snapshot-pass-blocking-efficiency/

I don't trust PFF completely, but at any rate, those numbers were up to Nov 28; neither Winston nor Newton made the good list or the bad list.
 
76Texan said:
SIX!

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=7815&team=12

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=25001&team=34

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=8324&team=34

Stats LLC and Elias Sports Bureau belongs to the same group of companies.
They are the official stats keeper for the NFL.
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Interesting. PFF had him with 3. Don't know where they get their info.

@Ravensinsider Eric Winston gave up just three sacks last season, according to Pro Football Focus. Not too shabby
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I'd take Eric Winston back if he came cheap, but lets remember his faults for a bit here. He has short arms and slow feet, he doesn't do well against speed rushers, thus giving up way to many sacks. I'd leave Newton at RT where I think he'll improve with experience, and move Winston to RG where I think his size, strength, and experience would benifit the Texans and Newton. His toughness and attitude would benifit the youngsters as well.
 
Scooter said:
my eye tells me they arent directly comparable. winston was more of an anchor where as newton was a piece. i cant claim to know the responsibilities of either, but it seemed to me that we gave winston twice the duty that newton saw. newton certainly had a few moments in the sun, and flashed a bit of pass pro, but the consistency was non existent and their run blocking isnt in the same league.

going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
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Scooter, also, I just reread all of the ReFocus pieces from PFF, and Newton was only mentioned negatively in 3 early games (Dolphins, Broncos, Packers) and in one loss to the Pats. All these teams have very good to great edge players. The good thing is that Newton seems to improve.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/category/teams/afc-south/texans/
 
NVM im pretty sure the texans will stick with there young draft pick in newton
 
paycheck71 said:
Interesting. PFF had him with 3. Don't know where they get their info.
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That's why I said I don't trust PFF completely.
Once, I had mentioned a Giants blogger who questioned how PFF record QB Pressure. The player involved was a Giant, Tucker, I believe.
The blogger loves Tucker, but he showed a clip where PFF credited Tucker with a QB Pressure when Tucker was a couple of miles away from the QB, LOL!
 
76Texan said:
Scooter, also, I just reread all of the ReFocus pieces from PFF, and Newton was only mentioned negatively in 3 early games (Dolphins, Broncos, Packers) and in one loss to the Pats. All these teams have very good to great edge players. The good thing is that Newton seems to improve.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/category/teams/afc-south/texans/
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a little vague bud, not being mentioned as a negative isnt a positive. as for improving, he certainly did. my unprofessional opinion says his improvement showed us where his ceiling is, and it's a swing tackle. i understand defending a texan or deriding what could be a bad idea, but newton was bad last year. his poor play and inconsistency very much contributed to our problems late in the year offensively.

one player is being supported as "he's not THAT bad", while the other is a probowler and graded among the tops at his position being ridden down as "not THAT good".
 
JamesBill said:
From 2008 to the rest of his time as a Texan, Winston had Mike Brisiel to his left. In zone runs the Guard has a ton more to do than a tackle. The bottom fell out of the o-line when MB broke his leg in 2011 and Winston was still in there. I think the Texans believed they would be able to keep MB so cut Winston.

Our shell shocked QB needs pass pro more than our all pro RB needs run blocking. How much of our non existent cap room do you want to put on the line? We have Cody, Barwin, and Quin (all starters) who are unrestricted. We are paper thin at ILB. No one has hard numbers on the cap but it is very likely any money you add will require a cap saving cut. Not just a cut but a cut that saves you cap space.
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whoever our right tackle is will have jones and/or brooks beside them, both an upgrade over brisiel IMO. as for the pass pro, you know that's not how it works. we're not built to drop back repeatedly. we have 3 legit runningbacks, a versatile fullback, and a purpose built offensive line ... we need to be able to run the ball in any and all situations, and work the pass off of those runs. that died at the end of the year because we were near crippled on the right side and teams were able to dictate our run game and force us to drop back.

if i had my way, i'd forget about winston and trade up heavily to take a wide receiver and offensive tackle in the first round. the monster in the NFL right now is the 49'ers, who basically made 2 quarterbacks all-pro's this year ... no wonder since they have 3 first rounders on the line, another at backup RG, 1st rounders at tightend and wide receiver and a former quarterback coaching them. i would LOOOOOVE to see kubiak with that kind of ammo. winston has proven himself has a really good run blocker and merely adequate pass blocker, he also has chemistry with our line and coaches ... that is very much a difference maker in january.

i realize we're bumping the cap, but as i understand it, we have a bit more flexibility this year. barwin's out and his replacement is already on the roster. mitchell is likely starting next year. walter is probably going to be cut or renegotiated. smith is up in the air. the only real concern regarding the cap is quin, and if it came to a safety or offensive lineman ... i for one believe the game is won and lost in the trenches.
 
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paycheck71 said:
Interesting. PFF had him with 3. Don't know where they get their info.
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PFF assigns some sacks to the QB.

For example, if the LDE engages the RT, the QB rolls out into the flat and the LDE chases him down for a sack, PFF assigns it to the QB and Stats LLC assigns it to the RT.
 
Kinda strange,but I heard some chatter last night and sent my buddy a text at 830 about winston getting. Winston has trouble with speed rushers,but he's pretty good in the combat zone. They could play him at rg and he would be just fine. Btw,Joekell is gonna struggle with speed rushers also at lt.
 
I hate to say I told you so & toot my own horn, but I know damn well, no one else is going to do it.

thunderkyss said:
If I remember right, we were paying Winston $5M/yr. I didn't think he was worth it. I don't think he is worth it.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Chiefs manage to acquire Joekel, & replace Winston.


Winston was what? A 6th year player & most likely led the team in false starts. He's a fine pass protector when going against your powerful strongside DEs (like a Mario Williams) but against a quicker, Freeny type, or a quick/explosive guy like Clay Matthews, he's like a wet paper sack. On the playside of a run..... I don't know there's a better tackle save maybe DBrown76. On the backside, lots of room for improvement. He didn't flat out suck.. but nowhere near where he should be.
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It makes absolutely zero sense for the Texans to bring Winston back. Everyone is acting like he was an All-Pro from day one, when he never was at any point in his time here. He's a one trick pony & we need to get better at that position, not go backwards.

Derek Newton may not be the answer, but in my humble opinion he was much better in his rookie season than Eric Winston was in his first three seasons.
 
Scooter said:
going to PFF, newton was blasted for his inconsistent play and poor overall game ... "matching every solid performance with two poor ones. Struggling as a run blocker in particular, Newton also allowed 32 total pressures and was just inconsistent in general." winston was the cheif's #4 undervalued players and as a texan ranked no worse than #7 among right tackles in the nfl.
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Don't know what to tell you, they're wrong.

I doubt Winston will sign another $5M/yr deal. I'm sure he'll get picked up, but I doubt he'll be starting where ever he goes at the end of 2013, unless there's a major attitude adjustment & he actually gets better at his job. I've always had the feeling he thought he was "good enough"
 
Wolf6151 said:
I'd take Eric Winston back if he came cheap, but lets remember his faults for a bit here. He has short arms and slow feet, he doesn't do well against speed rushers, thus giving up way to many sacks. I'd leave Newton at RT where I think he'll improve with experience, and move Winston to RG where I think his size, strength, and experience would benifit the Texans and Newton. His toughness and attitude would benifit the youngsters as well.
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You're right.... I'll recant a little.

He won't be starting at tackle at the end of 2013.
 
Scooter said:
i understand defending a texan or deriding what could be a bad idea, but newton was bad last year. his poor play and inconsistency very much contributed to our problems late in the year offensively.

one player is being supported as "he's not THAT bad", while the other is a probowler and graded among the tops at his position being ridden down as "not THAT good".
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Don't forget, Newton didn't play much at all his rookie season, this is pretty much the first extended action he got. Down the stretch, he was not 100% & we really don't know how bad the knee was.

Inconsistency is something we should expect from all our young players. With time, we hope that works out.

Again, I'm not tooting the Texans' horn, I'm not defending the Texans' decisions. I don't know that Newton is the long term answer, but RT has been the weakest spot (imo & I've said so many times before 2012) on our OL for years.
 
Even if they wanted to bring back Winston, the Texans still have the same issue as last offseason. Lack of cap room.
 
The Chiefs thought last year they were contenders for the AFC West title and a playoff berth before the season began and needed just a couple more pieces to make their team complete, including an upgrade at RT so they reached when Winston became available. Anyway, as we know their season turned out to be a disaster (they got the first overall pick next month, right?), and now they've got a new regime which wants to pass alot more than the previous one that signed Winston primarily for his rush-blocking abilities, and consequently Winston is on the street this morning. But he's 9 M richer (before expenses) after just one year with the Chiefs and he already got one sweet contract with the Texans so maybe he'll just retire ? On the other hand I'm pretty sure he still lives in Houston and if he'd take the minimum to be a reserve and/or perhaps compete for a starting guard position which would allow him to stay at home with wife and child, maybe he and Rick Smith could work something out ?
 
paycheck71 said:
Interesting. PFF had him with 3. Don't know where they get their info.
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As someone else stated, PFF doesn't just take numbers and go with that. That is what those official NFL stats provides. PFF is about a deeper evaluation about the plays and gives credit as should be assigned to the player. It's why some actual GM's utilize PFF and gathers information/reports from them. And if actual GM's roll with it then I'm cool with it too, heh.

As for Winston he is still too one dimensional. He is better than Newton at run blocking but he still has too many issues pass blocking for the type of salary he commands. He would have to take a heck of a paycut to come back here and chances are that won't be necessary since someone will give him a salary closer to what he is use to then we can.

As for Newton...we really need to stop making him more than he was as well. He was not good last year. Simple as that. All we can do is hope that he improves. There is no guarantee he will and there is no guarantee he won't. So we need to sign someone who can at least challenge him at an affordable price.

Newton was up and down all season. Only contender he played halfway decent had a lousy defense (Packers). Just like the Pats playoff game. Couldn't run to the right side til he was taken out and Ryan Harris put in (who isn't all that great himself). That should not have to happen and Kubiak stated early before the season he had no intentions of players sharing the position. But play on the field proved otherwise and it had to happen. We're trying to contend for the Bowl, not just AFC South titles so yes, we need more out of the spot. Hopefully Newton is ready to step it up a notch and develop.

So if we wish to bring up the continuity of the offensive line we can only blame the players/coaches themselves. It was their shaky play that made Kubes and Dennison go that direction. Not just injuries which are part of the game in any case.
 
Scooter said:
whoever our right tackle is will have jones and/or brooks beside them, both an upgrade over brisiel IMO.
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What are you basing this opinion on? When mike brisiel played, the right side of the line was fine. When he was out, not so much. Plus guard>tackle in run blocking.
 
Seems the Texans have possibly already contacted Winston on a reunion. I think he will have to play for less then his $5M per yr, but he may be willing to comeback w/ hopes of winning. I think Newton has room to grow & could get better, but the Texans are built to win now & it would be one less excuse for Schaub if he can't get the job done.

Eric Winston - T - Free Agent
According to the Philadelphia Daily News, the Eagles and Texans were the first two teams to reach out to free agent RT Eric Winston.
Winston certainly won't hurt for work after grading out as the league's No. 9 right tackle last season. In Philadelphia, he could slide right in as a starter and allow Todd Herremans to solidify the problematic right guard spot. He's also very familiar with the Texans' zone-blocking scheme after spending the first six years of his career there.
Related: Texans, Eagles
Source: Philadelphia Daily News Mar 7 - 11:13 AM
 
JamesBill said:
What are you basing this opinion on? When mike brisiel played, the right side of the line was fine. When he was out, not so much. Plus guard>tackle in run blocking.
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They were more then "fine". The o-line w/ Briesel & Winston were considered one of the best in the NFL. Those 2 leave & o-line takes a step back in both pass protection & run blocking & yet we have some who foolishly insist that somehow one of the best o-lines improved despite the production saying otherwise. Just another classic example of "bash the ex-Texan because they moved on" silliness. The current o-line has potential, but havent proven much just yet. The former o-line proved they were one of the best to many.
 
First of all, I haven't heard a single person who ever said that the line has improved this year.

This is my evaluation, which I had mentioned before:

Duane Brown was good for the first two third of the season, but tailed off down the stretch. Overall, he's about the same as the previous year or marginally better.

Wade Smith really had a down year; the difference in play here was quite big in both aspects of the offense, run and pass.

Myers also had a down year. In 2011, he had a great year; last year, it was at best average.

Briesiel was always underated. Caldwell, Jones, and Brooks were all wildly inconsistent. The diminishing in play might be the most pronounced at this spot.

There was also a drop-off at RT as well, but the difference here was not as pronounced as at the two guard spots.
It might be less of a problem than the Center spot as well (if we're talking about the difference between the two years.)
In 2011, Myers' play was great; last year, it was below average.

In 2011, the RT's play was just above average; last year, it was slightly below average or average.

I rewatched 4 games (Titans second game, Vikings - two games in which Foster went nowhere) and the two play-off games using the condensed format from NFL Game Rewind (plays start when the two teams are ready to go, no commercial, no time-out, no huddle) and Newton's play was quite encouraging.
(I also look at the end zone view from one of the All-22 cameras to check out all the runs for fewer than 3 yards and the incompletions + interceptions.)

Winston would have been at best a stalemate in these games as compared to the combo of Newton and Harris.

Harris was an unsung hero of sort. IMO, his overall play for the whole season was slightly better than Winston in 2011; however, we simply don't know if he can hold up if asked to play full-time.
 
Get it done! This could be the positive story of the off season. Everyone expects we will either flat-line or get worse with the players lost in FA. This could give our offense the "hype" again.

Out of 80 tackles, Newton was the 76th best run blocker. These grades are on a cumulative basis meaning the more playing time a guy gets the more opportunities he has to rank higher. He was outperformed by a number of low snap fillers.

Netwon was 47 / 80 on pass blocking. That is acceptable for a young player, but Eric was in the top 25 in both categories.
 
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