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Texans - 2.4 Million Cap Carryover for 2013

Dutchrudder

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
It appears the Texans will have the option to carryover 2.4 million in capspace from 2012. That money can be used in 2013 and beyond, so long as it is designated to be carried over each year. I use word "option" because as you may recall, last year the Texans reportedly had 1 million in excess cap space that for whatever reason, Rick Smith and company didn't seem to think was worth the effort to retain. 2011 carryover link

I hope Rick hires an intern to fill out the paperwork this year, because skipping out on 2.4 million in capspace is inexcusable. There are no consequences for carryover space, it does not figure into the salary cap floor requirement of 89%, you are not required to spend it, and it can be carried over every single year.


[Editor's note: The 2011 labor deal allows teams to carry over unused salary-cap space. Or to not carry it over. Listed below is the cap adjustment that is available to each team. Unless otherwise noted, the entire amount comes from cap money that can be carried over. The Cowboys and Redskins have net cap reductions based on $5 million and $18 million in cap penalties, respectively, for the 2013 league year. These numbers do not reflect availavle cap space but the amount of extra (or for the Cowboys and Redskins reduced) cap space over (or below) the unadjusted cap number, which is expected to be in the vicinity of $121 million per team.]

Eagles: $23.0 million.

Jaguars: $21.1 million ($19.5 million carryover).

Browns: $14.3 million.

Broncos: $14.1 million ($11.5 million carryover).

Chiefs: $14.0 million.

Seahawks: $13.2 million.

Titans: $12.8 million.

Bengals: $10.2 million ($8.5 million carryover).

Buccaneers: $10.1 million ($8.5 million carryover).

Bills: $9.8 million.

Vikings: $9.6 million ($8 million carryover).

Packers: $7.0 million.

Patriots: $5.6 million.

Dolphins: $5.3 million.

Raiders: $4.5 million.

Panthers: $3.6 million.

Cardinals: $3.6 million.

Colts: $3.5 million.

Jets: $3.4 million.

Bears: $3.2 million.

Saints: $2.7 million.

Texans: $2.4 million.

Steelers: $1.4 million ($758,000 carryover).

Falcons: $1.3 million ($300,000 carryover).

Ravens: $1.1 million.

Giants: $1 million.

Chargers: $995,000.

49ers: $859,000.

Lions: $466,000.

Rams: $247,000.

Cowboys: minus-$2.67 million ($2.33 million carryover).

Redskins: minus-$13.8 million ($4.27 million carryover).
Click to expand...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/06/team-by-team-cap-adjustments-for-2013/
 
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Here's a follow-up article PFT did indicating all the numbers in the first article are a done deal, and have been for a while now:
Last year, teams had until February 28 to decide whether to carry over unused salary cap space. This year, the deadline came two months early.

Per a source with knowledge of the schedule, teams had until December 29 to decide whether to shift remaining cap space to 2013. Thus, the numbers we posted last night reflect not the available carryover but the actual amounts that were carried over.
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LINK

Edit: It appears the link(s) in the OP both go to last season's article - hopefully I'm not jumping to conclusions, but here's where I think the second link was supposed to go:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/06/team-by-team-cap-adjustments-for-2013/
 
PFT is reporting that the 2013 total cap will not be $121 mil.........but a whopping additional $.5 mil. I guess every little bit helps.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Here's a follow-up article PFT did indicating all the numbers in the first article are a done deal, and have been for a while now:

LINK

Edit: It appears the link(s) in the OP both go to last season's article - hopefully I'm not jumping to conclusions, but here's where I think the second link was supposed to go:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/02/06/team-by-team-cap-adjustments-for-2013/
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The Texans have decided to carry forward the extra, correct? IMO, this is year we should use all leverage to aggressively hit free agency where possible. With the funds possible that we have discussed before thru cuts and reworking current contracts, Texans could reasonably sign 3 FAs that could make a big difference.
 
Dutchrudder said:
It appears the Texans will have the option to carryover 2.4 million in capspace from 2012. That money can be used in 2013 and beyond, so long as it is designated to be carried over each year. I use word "option" because as you may recall, last year the Texans reportedly had 1 million in excess cap space that for whatever reason, Rick Smith and company didn't seem to think was worth the effort to retain. 2011 carryover link

I hope Rick hires an intern to fill out the paperwork this year, because skipping out on 2.4 million in capspace is inexcusable. There are no consequences for carryover space, it does not figure into the salary cap floor requirement of 89%, you are not required to spend it, and it can be carried over every single year.
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Maybe because if he carries it over, people/fans will assume he has to spend it or he's perceived as being cheap?

Caught between a rock and a hard place: Profits vs. expenses. If he has extra $2.something million to "use" then he has to potentially SPEND it. And if you spend it, you're deducting it from profitability.

And look, nobody needs to get their panties in a twist and start flaming me on here about how I'm a "Bob McNair is cheap" guy. All I'm saying is that usually when something that's FREE to utilize isn't utilized...there's underlying reasons. This could be one reason: Savings.

Another reason could be that we don't know all the implications involved. Just as we don't have anybody, not even the critically acclaimed All-Knowing, All-Sensing media talking heads who get paid to know this stuff--They don't even know all the ins and outs of the NFL salary cap structure. It's possible that there are future ramifications looming if you use that extra portion of cap space. Who knows, it's possible we don't know everything associated with it.

WARNING: The following is an obligatory Schaub Hater statement, viewer discretion is advised:

This team should cut bait with Schaub and spend the savings on other positions. Matt's not going to get us over the hump. He gets you TO the hump, but doesn't get you over it. Then, you GET humped...by teams like Packers and Patriots who don't give a **** that Matt Schaub has nice stats every year in the NFL.

Using the exception, plus (IIRC from other posts recently) the $4 million in savings by cutting Matt Schaub, would be around $7 million in cap space. I don't know what players are out there that we can sign with that money AND make it feasible for the offense & defense systems we run here, but it gives us some spending cash. Or, if it locks up a carefully select few of VERY valuable Texans who proved in 2011 and 2012 that they are providing great value..so be it.

I'm borderline disinterested, though, in anything moving forward with player movement and acquisition for us because frankly I think we're still screwed no matter what. I don't think this team is managed to the level of Super Bowl caliber teams. Yet. We're not adaptive enough, we're too loyal to players and coaches, and the head guy is stubborn to a fault.
 
badboy said:
The Texans have decided to carry forward the extra, correct? IMO, this is year we should use all leverage to aggressively hit free agency where possible. With the funds possible that we have discussed before thru cuts and reworking current contracts, Texans could reasonably sign 3 FAs that could make a big difference.
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Let's say for the sake of discussion we could attract three free agents...

What player POSITIONS do you think we need most?

I've got my gaze set upon the following:

1. DT or NT -- We badly need another hell-raiser in the trenches alongside Watt

2. LB -- No surprises here, a savvy veteran like Brady James is not going to get the job done. You MUST have better LBs in a 34 defense. Or else.

3. WR -- We don't have time to develop or gamble upon a rookie WR out of the 2013 draft class. We need a difference maker NOW. Great WRs are like great DBs...they are better than their opponent and they get the job done, making life easier on everyone. Sure, Walter has reliable hands. But he's not a constant threat to create space and get open fast enough for Schaub. And right now, if we're stuck with Schaub, we need a better WR2 to pair with AJ. I don't think we find that WR2 in the draft unless we get JJ Watt type-of-lucky in the draft.

I am obviously playing Fantasy GM here, for the sake of discussion since we have nothing else to talk about except whether or not Flacco is elite and whether or not Flacco knows the rules on tackling a 49ers return man if he were to bust off a potential TD on the punt return at the end of the SB game.
 
GP said:
Maybe because if he carries it over, people/fans will assume he has to spend it or he's perceived as being cheap?
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Yeah, Bob McNair cares soooooooooooo much about the fans opinion of him, that he told Rick not to carry over 1 million last year so he wouldn't look cheap this year... :rolleyes:

Anyone claiming that not spending all our capspace each year is cheap, is dumb. Not giving the team extra caproom to work with by declining carryover is absolutely cheap and hurts the team.

Caught between a rock and a hard place: Profits vs. expenses. If he has extra $2.something million to "use" then he has to potentially SPEND it. And if you spend it, you're deducting it from profitability.

And look, nobody needs to get their panties in a twist and start flaming me on here about how I'm a "Bob McNair is cheap" guy. All I'm saying is that usually when something that's FREE to utilize isn't utilized...there's underlying reasons. This could be one reason: Savings.
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Well, I know the "Bob McNair is Cheap" argument gets old, but this could certainly be the case. Here is a list of teams last year that declined to carryover funds in excess of 300k:

Cardinals $2 million ($7 million).
Bengals: $15 million ($17.5 million).
Broncos: $26 million ($27.8 million).
Texans: $0.00 ($1 million).
Jags: $31 million ($31.6 million).
Chargers: $0.00 ($2.1 million).
Bucs: $23.5 million ($25.0 million).

That's not exactly good company to be in if you're trying not to appear cheap...

Another reason could be that we don't know all the implications involved. Just as we don't have anybody, not even the critically acclaimed All-Knowing, All-Sensing media talking heads who get paid to know this stuff--They don't even know all the ins and outs of the NFL salary cap structure. It's possible that there are future ramifications looming if you use that extra portion of cap space. Who knows, it's possible we don't know everything associated with it.

...
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Yeah well, 30 other teams saw fit to carry over at least some of the money, so the idea that there is some unknown penalty out there for carryover is just dumb. I read the NFL CBA, I'm well aware of the stipulations for carryover, and there are no penalties to my knowledge, or any of the cap experts I have read. It's simply leaving money on the table, money that we know we needed because of our cap situation.

What if that 1 million had been the difference between keeping Eric Winston or not? What if that money is the difference between resigning Glover Quin this year? It's absolutely asinine to not carryover capspace in salary cap football. If they do it again this year, then fans should riot and the writers should severely question management.
 
Is there a limit to the amount that can be carried over and is there a limit to the number of times one can carry over money?

If not, would it make sense to try to be the Florida Marlins of the NFL? You bomb for a couple of years, go cheap, and build up a bunch of extra cap room while acquiring high round picks. Let's say you underspend by $26 million a year(the amount the Broncos pushed forward) for 3 years and keep pushing the money forward. In year 4, you would have an extra $78 million (on top of the $121.5 mill) that is allowed. With a budget of almost $200 million, you could get multiple high level players to super short contracts(say 3 years, but give them a ton of money) to fill in the spaces where your good draft class didn't produce. You could even save around $35 million and push that forward to the year after if you wanted. By doing this you would give yourself a very good chance to win a superbowl in a two year window. Then after the second year ends, you cut/trade your good players for picks/cap relief. You may have to go through salary cap hell for a couple of years, but after, you begin to reload again. Doing this cycle you could probably put together high caliber teams for 2 year stretches every 6 years or so.

Would this be a bad strategy?
 
Doppelganger said:
Is there a limit to the amount that can be carried over and is there a limit to the number of times one can carry over money?

If not, would it make sense to try to be the Florida Marlins of the NFL? You bomb for a couple of years, go cheap, and build up a bunch of extra cap room while acquiring high round picks. Let's say you underspend by $26 million a year(the amount the Broncos pushed forward) for 3 years and keep pushing the money forward. In year 4, you would have an extra $78 million (on top of the $121.5 mill) that is allowed. With a budget of almost $200 million, you could get multiple high level players to super short contracts(say 3 years, but give them a ton of money) to fill in the spaces where your good draft class didn't produce. You could even save around $35 million and push that forward to the year after if you wanted. By doing this you would give yourself a very good chance to win a superbowl in a two year window. Then after the second year ends, you cut/trade your good players for picks/cap relief. You may have to go through salary cap hell for a couple of years, but after, you begin to reload again. Doing this cycle you could probably put together high caliber teams for 2 year stretches every 6 years or so.

Would this be a bad strategy?
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Your overall strategy can work, however next year the Salary Cap Floor goes into effect, so 26 million a year in savings is not feasible. Every team must spend at least 89% of the salary cap for that year going forward. Suppose the 2013 cap will be 121 million (should be close to that), that would mean every team must spend at least 107.69 million on players next year. So at most, a team could save up 13.31 million a year for future use. This is why I have been saying free agency this year will be a circus, teams will be striving to spend money to meet the 107 minimum.

There is no cap ceiling however, if a team saved up all that money, they could potentially spend all of it in one year and have a cap spending total of 200 million as you said. Whether or not that is an advantage is to be determined (see 2010 Cowboys and Redskins payroll).

As you can see from the links in the OP, teams that have been rolling over cap the last few years are going to have an advantage in free agency. Teams that do not roll over cap space will be at a disadvantage by not having as much money to work with. I think everyone can agree that the more money you have to spend, the better the chances your team will do well, which is why every dollar is important. The Steelers put in the effort to roll over 500k last year, why didn't the Texans?
 
GP said:
Let's say for the sake of discussion we could attract three free agents...

What player POSITIONS do you think we need most?

I've got my gaze set upon the following:

1. DT or NT -- We badly need another hell-raiser in the trenches alongside Watt

2. LB -- No surprises here, a savvy veteran like Brady James is not going to get the job done. You MUST have better LBs in a 34 defense. Or else.

3. WR -- We don't have time to develop or gamble upon a rookie WR out of the 2013 draft class. We need a difference maker NOW. Great WRs are like great DBs...they are better than their opponent and they get the job done, making life easier on everyone. Sure, Walter has reliable hands. But he's not a constant threat to create space and get open fast enough for Schaub. And right now, if we're stuck with Schaub, we need a better WR2 to pair with AJ. I don't think we find that WR2 in the draft unless we get JJ Watt type-of-lucky in the draft.

I am obviously playing Fantasy GM here, for the sake of discussion since we have nothing else to talk about except whether or not Flacco is elite and whether or not Flacco knows the rules on tackling a 49ers return man if he were to bust off a potential TD on the punt return at the end of the SB game.
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GP, those three are dire need imo and if we could lock up veteran starters for those positions, it could set us us for long time. A vet WR2 would allow time for Posey and Martin to make it or break it. A vet ILB would allow a lower round ILB to be selected and trained up.


NT: Here the choice is not so clear.

Almost like offensive tackle, defensive tackle can be split into two parts: Pass rushers and run-plugging space eaters. The best free-agent interior pass rushers are Bryant, Henry Melton, 26, Randy Starks, 29, Jason Jones, 26, Seymour, 33, Chris Canty, 30, Glenn Dorsey, 27, and Corey Williams, 32.

The top free-agent space eaters include "Pot Roast" Terrance Knighton, 26, Isaac Sopoaga, 31, Vance Walker, 25, Casey Hampton, 35, Roy Miller, 25, Sammie Lee Hill, 26, and Pat Sims, 27.
http://www.rotoworld.com/articles/nfl/42496/309/free-agency-update?pg=2

In draft:
1. Best OLB available Okafur or Montgomery or?
2. Brandon Williams NT allows a possible starter or the ability to sign an older NT FA to start 1-2 years on the cheap until Williams ready. If a young NT FA, then select another position.
3. Darrius Slay immediate starter at safety or Manning's eventual replacement if Quin is signed. Adds depth to CB if necessary.
3b Alvin Bailey OG
4 First risky move Brennan Williams OT could be ready by game one for back up but as I think Newton is 2013 starter that allows Williams more time to heal with minimal playing time. Rather like we did with Ryan Harris.

5,6 & 7 our picks use to trade up if necessary to accomplish early picks. Other comps to add bench depth.

I think UDFA will allow looks at QB, RB, WR and LB
 
Dutchrudder said:
Your overall strategy can work, however next year the Salary Cap Floor goes into effect, so 26 million a year in savings is not feasible. Every team must spend at least 89% of the salary cap for that year going forward. Suppose the 2013 cap will be 121 million (should be close to that), that would mean every team must spend at least 107.69 million on players next year. So at most, a team could save up 13.31 million a year for future use. This is why I have been saying free agency this year will be a circus, teams will be striving to spend money to meet the 107 minimum.
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I agree with everything you said, with the exception of the 89% making the 26 Million unfeasible. That minimum is measured cumulatively over a 4 year period, and isn't actually required to be met until the end of the 4 year period. The first four year period is 2013 - 2016. Therefore, a team can go as low as they'd like for the years 2013 - 2015 as long at they make up any cumulative shortfall in 2016. That may not be a smart way to handle the 89%, but it is a way that complies with the CBA.

In my eyes, there are some other problems with the strategy.

First, you're banking on the right players being both available and willing to sign in the year you're spending. Football seems to have less movement of it's top talent among teams than the NBA, and MLB. Part of this is the franchise tag, and part of it is the now almost non-existent ability to restrict free agents, but I think part of it is part of the culture of the league, and may be difficult to change.

Second, you would have to make massive cuts the year after you're "all out" year, and not only would that create the obvious problems, it would probably hinder you're ability to sign the players you want for the one year push. Who's going to want to sign a four year contract with a team knowing that after the upcoming season, they're going to have to dump 78 Million in contracts just to get to the cap (and the described strategy would require getting significantly under the cap). This ignores the fact that guaranteed money would severly limit your ability to reduce the cap amount, even with massive roster cuts (at least given the philosophical contract strategy indicated).
 
Dutchrudder said:
I use word "option" because as you may recall, last year the Texans reportedly had 1 million in excess cap space that for whatever reason, Rick Smith and company didn't seem to think was worth the effort to retain.

I hope Rick hires an intern to fill out the paperwork this year, because skipping out on 2.4 million in capspace is inexcusable.
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Wasn't that $1M used to sign our back up QB & I forgot who, but another FA.

They have to declare what they are going to do with that money sometime in December right? If they say they are going to roll it over to the following year, they cannot use it, right?

So last year, if they rolled it over, Owen Daniels would have been our back up QB & I doubt they would have let him play as a TE Wild Card weekend.
 
badboy said:
GP, those three are dire need imo and if we could lock up veteran starters for those positions, it could set us us for long time. A vet WR2 would allow time for Posey and Martin to make it or break it. A vet ILB would allow a lower round ILB to be selected and trained up.
Click to expand...

I think we should go after a veteran WR that can be a dynamic #2, regardless of what we think about Posey or Martin. They are what they are & shouldn't "plan" as if they are going to get better.

Bring me Dwayne Bowe & if Posey and/or Martin never progress, we'll be good with Andre, Bowe, & Walter as our three main receivers. If Posey and/or Martin earn playing time ahead of Walter, then we have Andre, Bowe, Posey/Martin.

If Martin never develops & Posey is better than Bowe, we'll have Andre, Posey, & Bowe as our three main receivers.

Posey & Martin are cheap. If they turn into players, great. Them not progressing should not be an excuse to keep us out of the Super Bowl.
 
Posey better than Bowe? lol Bowe will be way too expensive in any case. He's a straight up stud with a good QB throwing to him. He's gonna see big money if he's out on the FA market.
 
thunderkyss said:
Wasn't that $1M used to sign our back up QB & I forgot who, but another FA.

They have to declare what they are going to do with that money sometime in December right? If they say they are going to roll it over to the following year, they cannot use it, right?

So last year, if they rolled it over, Owen Daniels would have been our back up QB & I doubt they would have let him play as a TE Wild Card weekend.
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I'm not aware of any way for a team to spend money on a new contract between January and March and have it count for the previous league year. Future/reserve contracts signed during that time are made for the next season, which starts in March. Their cap hits will be added to the next year.

badboy said:
If we did not use $1million from 2011 why cannot it be added to $2.4 m in 2013?
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Cap carryover must be declared before the deadline, which is usually the end of February. If nothing is declared, then the money is not carried over for future use. The PFT report said the Texans and Chargers were the only teams in 2011 that did not carry over any money. If the Texans want to carryover this 2.4 million into 2013, they need to submit the paperwork before the end of this month. It will be interesting to see what they do, because we were cap strapped last year, and apparently 1 million wasn't worth the effort, so let's see if 2.4 million is.
 
Dutchrudder said:
I'm not aware of any way for a team to spend money on a new contract between January and March and have it count for the previous league year. Future/reserve contracts signed during that time are made for the next season, which starts in March. Their cap hits will be added to the next year.



Cap carryover must be declared before the deadline, which is usually the end of February. If nothing is declared, then the money is not carried over for future use. The PFT report said the Texans and Chargers were the only teams in 2011 that did not carry over any money. If the Texans want to carryover this 2.4 million into 2013, they need to submit the paperwork before the end of this month. It will be interesting to see what they do, because we were cap strapped last year, and apparently 1 million wasn't worth the effort, so let's see if 2.4 million is.
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CT in post #2 linked that this season teams had to notify league by December 2012 if going to roll over. I guess that means they did? IIRC, in the first two seasons (2011 & '12) a team could use a few million (more in 11, about $1.5m '12)to use towards a vet FA on their team per new CBA. Texan did not use, I think. Not sure why we have not seen any of our own FAs being addressed. Thought they'd at least be in negotiations with Quin and Casey.
 
This NOT good news. The expected 2015 significant increase in the NFL Cap limit because of expected windfall TV contracts in 2014 may very well NOT occur.
Salary cap spike not expected this year, or any year

That belief [spike in Cap limit] seems to be mistaken.

Per a source with extensive knowledge of the design and implementation of the cap, the formula will experience a “smoothing” in the coming years, with no one year resulting in a dramatic leap. The thinking is that, if the cap shoots up dramatically from one year to the next, it won’t be fair to the players who signed a big contract in the year in which the cap was lower.

The smoothing phenomenon is more likely to unfold even in 2015 because, in 2012, money from future cap years was shifted to a year in which the cap was poised to drop, due to the revenue decreases from 2011, the year of the lockout. (Even though only one game was missed during to the lockout, months of uncertainty affected fan and sponsor spending during the offseason shutdown.)

This robbing of Peter to pay Paul means that the expected growth will peter out when otherwise expected to spike.

As a result, teams that deal with current cap problems by pushing money into the future under the assumption that there will be extra space at some point could be positioning themselves for a perpetual cap purgatory.
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link

The Texans are one of those teams that may very well be headed to absolute Cap Hell.

We need to tie up Cushing by next year. We don't want to take a chance and wait for 2015 to tie up Watt, therefore also signing him up for 2014.

And for those that keep on saying don't worry.........if we release Schaub after this year, there is negligible effect on the cap, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

His contract consists of $29.15 mil guaranteed, broken down to his 2012 and 2013 base salary with the remainder in signing bonus ($18.250 mil) spread over the entire 5 year contract. If Schaub is released after 2013, he still has remaining $10.5 mil in signing bonus (scheduled for 2014, 2015 and 2016) which must be paid..........and paid accelerated ALL into the year 2014.

Year Base Salary / S. Bonus
2012 4,400,000 / 4,250,000
2013 7,250,000 / 3,500,000
2014 10,000,000 / 3,500,000
2015 12,500,000 / 3,500,000
2016 14,500,000 / 3,500,000
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
This NOT good news. The expected 2015 significant increase in the NFL Cap limit because of expected windfall TV contracts in 2014 may very well NOT occur.
link
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This sounds like the players took a royal screwing in the last CBA. Forcing teams to spend 85% (or whatever) of the cap will help more players get paid, but overall, this is going to hurt the number of big contracts a team can pay out & still field a complete team.
 
Dutch, based on what CnD posted on Schaub's salary numbers....what's your take?

The glaring issue I saw (and an wondering if it stands out to you) is that Schaub's base salary jumps from 7 to 10, from 2013 to 2014 respectively.

Are we basically on a "one more year and we'll see" with Schaub with that jump? How do the two columns of salary numbers interact in terms of cap ramifications?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
This NOT good news. The expected 2015 significant increase in the NFL Cap limit because of expected windfall TV contracts in 2014 may very well NOT occur.
link
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I don't have a source, but I remember reading after the lockout ended that the cap went significantly down in 2011 compared to previous years. The players agreed to borrow cap money from the future years to get the 2011-2012 cap numbers even remotely close to what they were in years leading up to the lockout. That's why there will be no huge cap increase in the foreseeable future.
 
GP said:
Dutch, based on what CnD posted on Schaub's salary numbers....what's your take?

The glaring issue I saw (and an wondering if it stands out to you) is that Schaub's base salary jumps from 7 to 10, from 2013 to 2014 respectively.

Are we basically on a "one more year and we'll see" with Schaub with that jump? How do the two columns of salary numbers interact in terms of cap ramifications?
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ArlingtonTexan posted a link to this site the other day: http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2013
From what I know and looking at their numbers, they are pretty accurate. They suffer from the same issue as Sporttrac though, where they don't account for the vet minimum deal contracts. Their caphit numbers are slightly higher for some of those smaller contracts, but that's not a big deal. They are spot on with the top 20 contracts, so let's have a look at Schaub.

Here's the info on Schaub, which I believe is accurate:

TexansSchaubContract_zpse929cb29.jpg


This is how I was trying to present the info in the thread I started, but I was looking guys going into their last year. Schaub has several more years and there is zero chance he will be gone before the end of the 2013 season. If you look at the dead money column, you can see that cutting or trading Schaub now or before the end of the 2013 season would cost the team about 10.5 million in capspace, because he has his 2013 salary guaranteed and 4 years of signing bonus left. That's a huge chunk of change to spend on a guy not playing for you.

However, if you look at 2014, cutting him before the season starts would actually save 4 million in cap space because his dead money is only 10.5 million compared to his 14.5 million cost. And you can see it gets much more reasonable to move him as the contract progresses.

So in short, yes, we have one more year of Schaub, even if we sign the elite Joe Flacco in free agency. It's just not feasible to move him for anything in 2013.
 
paycheck71 said:
I don't have a source, but I remember reading after the lockout ended that the cap went significantly down in 2011 compared to previous years. The players agreed to borrow cap money from the future years to get the 2011-2012 cap numbers even remotely close to what they were in years leading up to the lockout. That's why there will be no huge cap increase in the foreseeable future.
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I guess I should have read the whole article before replying. :)
 
Here's the year by year increase of the NFL's salary cap, with percentage changes. It's obvious that the capspace has slowed down, yet NFL profits continually increase. Hmmmm.... :thinking:

2013 is projected:

NFLCapbyYear_zps803fc277.jpg
 
Dutchrudder said:
ArlingtonTexan posted a link to this site the other day: http://www.overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Texans&Year=2013
From what I know and looking at their numbers, they are pretty accurate. They suffer from the same issue as Sporttrac though, where they don't account for the vet minimum deal contracts. Their caphit numbers are slightly higher for some of those smaller contracts, but that's not a big deal. They are spot on with the top 20 contracts, so let's have a look at Schaub.

Here's the info on Schaub, which I believe is accurate:

TexansSchaubContract_zpse929cb29.jpg


This is how I was trying to present the info in the thread I started, but I was looking guys going into their last year. Schaub has several more years and there is zero chance he will be gone before the end of the 2013 season. If you look at the dead money column, you can see that cutting or trading Schaub now or before the end of the 2013 season would cost the team about 10.5 million in capspace, because he has his 2013 salary guaranteed and 4 years of signing bonus left. That's a huge chunk of change to spend on a guy not playing for you.

However, if you look at 2014, cutting him before the season starts would actually save 4 million in cap space because his dead money is only 10.5 million compared to his 14.5 million cost. And you can see it gets much more reasonable to move him as the contract progresses.

So in short, yes, we have one more year of Schaub, even if we sign the elite Joe Flacco in free agency. It's just not feasible to move him for anything in 2013.
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Thanks for your great input! Rep for your help.

Just to be clear, if Schaub is released after the 2013 season is over, even though we would save paying him the $11 mil in base salary and roster bonus for 2014, the remaining $10.5 mil accelerated dead money for the remaining unpaid guaranteed 2014, 2015, and 2016 payments for the original signing bonus, would be applied as a single "hit" to the 2014 Texans cap?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Thanks for your great input! Rep for your help.

Just to be clear, if Schaub is released after the 2013 season is over, even though we would save paying him the $11 mil in base salary and roster bonus for 2014, the remaining $10.5 mil accelerated dead money for the remaining unpaid guaranteed 2014, 2015, and 2016 payments for the original signing bonus, would be applied as a single "hit" to the 2014 Texans cap?
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Yep, that's correct. If cut in 2014, his caphit would go from 14.5m to 10.5m, and then 0 for 2015 and beyond. It's like the Demeco trade, where the team makes the move to take the dead money hit one year, but have zero liability in future years. It hurts, but it can be necessary at times.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Yep, that's correct. If cut in 2014, his caphit would go from 14.5m to 10.5m, and then 0 for 2015 and beyond. It's like the Demeco trade, where the team makes the move to take the dead money hit one year, but have zero liability in future years. It hurts, but it can be necessary at times.
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What's a little $10.5 mil when you're likely to be already half way drowning.:D
 
So, I'm listening to 610, they just said after the money they set aside for the rookies, the Texans have $1.7M

How are we going to sign Glover, Connor, & James with only $1.7M?

March 12th is only 3 weeks away. Shouldn't we be hearing about contract restructures & player cuts by now? We're seeing other teams, the Jets specifically, making moves to free up money. Are we sitting on our thumbs or do you think Rick Smith is putting in overtime?
 
thunderkyss said:
So, I'm listening to 610, they just said after the money they set aside for the rookies, the Texans have $1.7M

How are we going to sign Glover, Connor, & James with only $1.7M?

March 12th is only 3 weeks away. Shouldn't we be hearing about contract restructures & player cuts by now? We're seeing other teams, the Jets specifically, making moves to free up money. Are we sitting on our thumbs or do you think Rick Smith is putting in overtime?
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I would imagine there's negotiations going on behind the scenes - or will be shortly. Other than street free agents (guys who weren't under contract at the end of the 2012 season, or have been released since then), negotiations can't begin with free agents until March 9th, and no signings can take place before March 12th. The 12th is also the date by which teams have to be at or under the cap, so there's time. Last year, Winston was released on March 13 (Just before the cap had to be complied with), and they waited until May 1 to let Jacoby go.

Regarding the restructures, (contract modifications reducing the current year salary cap hit, but having no negative financial impact to the player) you typically don't want to do these unless you have to. These type of restructures help out the current year, but come at a cost in future years, so generally you put the groundwork in place, but don't actually pull the trigger unless/until there's a specific reason to. Also (and this is only going from memory), the Texans have never really announced restructures, but it seems like the info regarding who restructured trickles out at some point down the road.

As far as releases and reductions in salary, there's no reason not to go ahead and do those, but unless you're over the cap (which it doesn't appear the Texans are), there's no reason to do them now other than to give the player the benefit of an early start on free agency. Also, there may be a strategic advantage to waiting until the last minute (perhaps even the final cut of the 2013 preseason) to tell the player to take a pay cut or be waived. The fewer options they have, the more likely they may be to accept a cut.
 
thunderkyss said:
So, I'm listening to 610, they just said after the money they set aside for the rookies, the Texans have $1.7M

How are we going to sign Glover, Connor, & James with only $1.7M?

March 12th is only 3 weeks away. Shouldn't we be hearing about contract restructures & player cuts by now? We're seeing other teams, the Jets specifically, making moves to free up money. Are we sitting on our thumbs or do you think Rick Smith is putting in overtime?
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A suggestion, go to Spotrak and add up all the 2013 FAs 2012 salary; that gives you an estimate of savings. Most of them will not be back.*Note that many contracts will have escalators. Or use the info Dutchrudder gave in his sticky thread.

Keep in mind the $2.4m carry over; did the 610 guys include that? Numbers are all over the board because we don't know what each source is counting. IMO, Quin is the only one I expect to re-sign.

Also, we can restructure contracts as we did to sign D Brown, Matt Schaub and Foster.
 
ChampionTexan said:
I would imagine there's negotiations going on behind the scenes - or will be shortly. Other than street free agents (guys who weren't under contract at the end of the 2012 season, or have been released since then), negotiations can't begin with free agents until March 9th, and no signings can take place before March 12th. The 12th is also the date by which teams have to be at or under the cap, so there's time. Last year, Winston was released on March 13 (Just before the cap had to be complied with), and they waited until May 1 to let Jacoby go.

Regarding the restructures, (contract modifications reducing the current year salary cap hit, but having no negative financial impact to the player) you typically don't want to do these unless you have to. These type of restructures help out the current year, but come at a cost in future years, so generally you put the groundwork in place, but don't actually pull the trigger unless/until there's a specific reason to. Also (and this is only going from memory), the Texans have never really announced restructures, but it seems like the info regarding who restructured trickles out at some point down the road.

As far as releases and reductions in salary, there's no reason not to go ahead and do those, but unless you're over the cap (which it doesn't appear the Texans are), there's no reason to do them now other than to give the player the benefit of an early start on free agency. Also, there may be a strategic advantage to waiting until the last minute (perhaps even the final cut of the 2013 preseason) to tell the player to take a pay cut or be waived. The fewer options they have, the more likely they may be to accept a cut.
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http://bleacherreport.com/tb/d9L53?...medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=houston-texans

“Not necessarily started the negotiations,” Texans general manager Rick Smith said Saturday, before he was honored at the Charlie Ward Tribute to Excellence event. “Obviously we’re in touch with all the agents and those guys know our intent is that we want to keep the players that are free agents. Those conversations will continue in Indianapolis and will continue after the combine as well.”

To clear up some cap space, you could see extensions to players like defensive end Antonio Smith or inside linebacker Brian Cushing, both of whom have contracts that expire after the 2013 season.

With the pushed back league year, these negotiations often start at the NFL Scouting Combine, a place where agents and general managers convene for a few days and can easily meet face-to-face.

per the article
 
I didn't want to start a separate thread on this subject. I am by no means a master accountant, and some aspects of the cap have been difficult for me to comprehend. This article makes a concise and very simple to understand presentation of some fairly confusing points relating to salary, various types of bonuses, "guaranteed" money, "dead money," etc.

A Guide to the NFL Salary Cap
 
badboy said:
A suggestion, go to Spotrak and add up all the 2013 FAs 2012 salary; that gives you an estimate of savings. Most of them will not be back.*Note that many contracts will have escalators. Or use the info Dutchrudder gave in his sticky thread.

Keep in mind the $2.4m carry over; did the 610 guys include that? Numbers are all over the board because we don't know what each source is counting. IMO, Quin is the only one I expect to re-sign.

Also, we can restructure contracts as we did to sign D Brown, Matt Schaub and Foster.
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Using the Over the Cap numbers here are the players, who if cut, would yield extra cap room:

1. Antonio Smith: $6.0 million
2. Andre Johnson: $3.3 million
3. Brian Cushing: $3.1 million
4. Wade Smith: $3.0 Million
5. Kevin Walter: $2.5 Million
6. Daniel Manning: $2.5 million
7. Owen Daniels: $2.25 million

Everyone else is 600,00 or is a bigger cap hit than savings. Based on this, I think Smith and Walter are near locks to get cut. That's $5.5 Million the team could use.

Antonio Smith is 6.0 million, but the Texans don't have a replacement for him. I would keep him for now. Andre Johnson is a must keep. Interestingly enough, after 2014, Andre Johnson if cut, actually saves $10.4 mill. If you cut him, that may be the time to do it. Cush is young and only nets 3.1 if cut: gotta keep and resign. Manning is only $2.5. However, if one of the younger safeties can step up next year his cap savings would be $4.5 million...that may be a good time to cut him. Owen Daniels cap savings would only yield $2.5. However, if they cut him next year, it jumps to 4.5. I think he's gone next year.

So in summary, I think Wade Smith and Walters are gone. If the Texans are desperate, they may cut Daniels too.
 
Doppelganger said:
Using the Over the Cap numbers here are the players, who if cut, would yield extra cap room:

1. Antonio Smith: $6.0 million
2. Andre Johnson: $3.3 million
3. Brian Cushing: $3.1 million
4. Wade Smith: $3.0 Million
5. Kevin Walter: $2.5 Million
6. Daniel Manning: $2.5 million
7. Owen Daniels: $2.25 million

Everyone else is 600,00 or is a bigger cap hit than savings. Based on this, I think Smith and Walter are near locks to get cut. That's $5.5 Million the team could use.

Antonio Smith is 6.0 million, but the Texans don't have a replacement for him. I would keep him for now. Andre Johnson is a must keep. Interestingly enough, after 2014, Andre Johnson if cut, actually saves $10.4 mill. If you cut him, that may be the time to do it. Cush is young and only nets 3.1 if cut: gotta keep and resign. Manning is only $2.5. However, if one of the younger safeties can step up next year his cap savings would be $4.5 million...that may be a good time to cut him. Owen Daniels cap savings would only yield $2.5. However, if they cut him next year, it jumps to 4.5. I think he's gone next year.

So in summary, I think Wade Smith and Walters are gone. If the Texans are desperate, they may cut Daniels too.
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Good info. As discussed, I see A Smith getting reworked to lower hit. Posey out, who replaces Walter? Any comments about releases AJ will lead to MB exploding but should be looked at IF we can get a replacement. That is the problem. I was hoping that was going to be Jean but...
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
FINAL OFFICIAL NFL Cap for 2013 has been reported by both Ian Rapoport and Albert Breer of NFL Network: $123 million
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The NFL has set the 2013 salary cap at $123.9 million, up from $120.6 million in 2012.
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport initially reported the cap would be $123 million flat, but ESPN's Chris Mortensen says after accounting for league revenues, it gets a $900,000 bump. It's not a major spike, but it gives teams a little more breathing room than we were expecting. It could be the difference in keeping a veteran or signing a free agent.
Source: Chris Mortensen on Twitter Feb 28 - 7:12 PM

Actually it seems to be $123.9M. Every penny counts.
 
tru80texan said:
The NFL has set the 2013 salary cap at $123.9 million, up from $120.6 million in 2012.
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport initially reported the cap would be $123 million flat, but ESPN's Chris Mortensen says after accounting for league revenues, it gets a $900,000 bump. It's not a major spike, but it gives teams a little more breathing room than we were expecting. It could be the difference in keeping a veteran or signing a free agent.
Source: Chris Mortensen on Twitter Feb 28 - 7:12 PM

Actually it seems to be $123.9M. Every penny counts.
Click to expand...


Saw that........but things still remain confusing.

Florio of PFT reported this after initially reporting the Rapoport and Breer numbers:

UPDATE 6:55 p.m. ET: Chris Mortensen of ESPN puts the number at $123.9 million. Which we like, since it meshes with our recent report that the number is expected to be more than $123 million. It translates to a 2.7-percent increase over last year.
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Then later Florio retracts:

Salary cap sits at $123 million precisely
Posted by Mike Florio on February 28, 2013, 9:26 PM EST
gty_money_jef_120106_wg Getty Images

There has been some confusion regarding the actual salary cap for 2013. We’ve confirmed via two sources that the team-by-team spending limit is and will be $123 million.
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In the "comments," when someone questions Florio's "back track," Florio explains:


roadbiscuit says: Mar 1, 2013 5:05 AM

Chris Mortensen says after accounting for league revenues, it gets a $900,000 bump to $123.9M. So much for precision.



Mike Florio says: Mar 1, 2013 6:57 AM

The extra $900,000 does not apply to the spending limit.
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Doppelganger said:
Based on this, I think Smith and Walter are near locks to get cut. That's $5.5 Million the team could use.

So in summary, I think Wade Smith and Walters are gone. If the Texans are desperate, they may cut Daniels too.
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Antonio Smith, Walter, and Wade Smith could get cut, but are just as or more likely to have their contracts extended or renegotiated. Wade Smith does not have a certain replacement. Neither does Antonio. Walter should see a replacement in free agency or the draft. But, he could accept another pay cut and remain. Daniels contract could easily be adjusted to free cap room. I don't see the cuts and free agent losses that were prevalent in the 2012 offseason.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Another site with 2013 Texans Cap figures as of 3/1/13.
Click to expand...

I wonder how many of those guys are going to be on the team.... like Dwight Jones. Didn't he say he was out? Didn't want to play football?


That site shows us with 51 players at $117M with a $123M cap. So right now, since Rick & Greg have been on siesta since Jan 13, we have $6M and 2 roster spots to sign Quin & Barwin.


We don't even have enough to franchise Quin & the deadline is tomorrow.
 
infantrycak said:
Not sure which sites are reliable. For example on top player AJ overthecap.com has a base salary of $9.5 mil while rotoworld has a base salary of $6.2 mil. That's a pretty big discrepancy.
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You're correct. These figures are difficult to evaluate for reliability. However, I've found that when all things shake out, Spotrac.com seems to have the best handle on these numbers.......and they also quote AJ's base 2013 salary at $9.5 mil. Furthermore, Rotoworld seems to have also stepped in line with this figure.

ROTOWORLD

Andre Johnson triggered an escalator in his contract, raising his 2013 salary from $6.2 million to $9.5 million.
Click to expand...
 
thunderkyss said:
That site shows us with 51 players at $117M with a $123M cap. So right now, since Rick & Greg have been on siesta since Jan 13, we have $6M and 2 roster spots to sign Quin & Barwin.


We don't even have enough to franchise Quin & the deadline is tomorrow.
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Spotrac has the Texans with a $114,713,930 cap number (counting the $2.4 million rollover). That would allow enough to franchise Quin (at $6.9 million). But, they shouldn't. Quin is not worth that kind of money and wouldn't approach it on the open market. They should offer him Manning money ($5 mil/season) and if he refuses, let him test the waters. Quin doesn't create enough turnovers to make a big splash in free agency. He has more value to the Texans than another team.
 
Lucky said:
Spotrac has the Texans with a $114,713,930 cap number (counting the $2.4 million rollover). That would allow enough to franchise Quin (at $6.9 million). But, they shouldn't. Quin is not worth that kind of money and wouldn't approach it on the open market. They should offer him Manning money ($5 mil/season) and if he refuses, let him test the waters. Quin doesn't create enough turnovers to make a big splash in free agency. He has more value to the Texans than another team.
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I don't think its a matter of whether or not he's worth the money. I think its ultimately buying the Texans more time to work out a deal w/ out losing him for nothing. It seems other teams are interested in Quin so ensuring that the Texans will be compensated if someone chooses to pursue him sounds like a no-brained imo. If they do apply the tag it seems it is a worst case scenario if he ends up playing under it for the whole season. Quin needs to be re-signed, imo, because he is a quality player who offers versatility having been a former cb. Dunta wasn't a turnover machine & he struck it big in FA, so creating turnovers isn't necessarily a measuring stick on what a player will be offered in free agency imo. It only takes 1 team to act like a fool & overpay a player very similar to the Falcons w/ Dunta.
 
Lucky said:
Spotrac has the Texans with a $114,713,930 cap number (counting the $2.4 million rollover). That would allow enough to franchise Quin (at $6.9 million). But, they shouldn't. Quin is not worth that kind of money and wouldn't approach it on the open market. They should offer him Manning money ($5 mil/season) and if he refuses, let him test the waters. Quin doesn't create enough turnovers to make a big splash in free agency. He has more value to the Texans than another team.
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I don't think its a matter of whether or not he's worth the money. I think its ultimately buying the Texans more time to work out a deal w/ out losing him for nothing. It seems other teams are interested in Quin so ensuring that the Texans will be compensated if someone chooses to pursue him sounds like a no-brainer imo. If they do apply the tag it seems it is a worst case scenario if he ends up playing under it for the whole season. Quin needs to be re-signed, imo, because he is a quality player who offers versatility having been a former cb. Dunta wasn't a turnover machine & he struck it big in FA, so creating turnovers isn't necessarily a measuring stick on what a player will be offered in free agency imo. It only takes 1 team to act like a fool & overpay a player very similar to the Falcons w/ Dunta.
 
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans

A link to another talking heads solution to our salary cap woes. It seems simple enough & I agree w/ most of it. Especially cutting Walter & allowing Cody to walk. Im sure there is more to it then what this writeup suggests, but the restructuring is something that is being reported by multiple teams daily to free up salary cap space. Teams that have salary cap issues, similar to the Texans, seem to be active & yes I realize we don't know what they are doing behind closed doors, but if they were serious about keeping Quin, Casey, or Barwin then you would think the Texans would be working quickly to create space before they hit the open market. I'm not for overpaying a player, but I wouldn't mind some activity being reported that they are freeing up money that gives us hope that attempts are being made to keep a key player or 2.
 
tru80texan said:
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/47872/my-plan-for-the-houston-texans

A link to another talking heads solution to our salary cap woes. It seems simple enough & I agree w/ most of it. Especially cutting Walter & allowing Cody to walk. Im sure there is more to it then what this writeup suggests, but the restructuring is something that is being reported by multiple teams daily to free up salary cap space. Teams that have salary cap issues, similar to the Texans, seem to be active & yes I realize we don't know what they are doing behind closed doors, but if they were serious about keeping Quin, Casey, or Barwin then you would think the Texans would be working quickly to create space before they hit the open market. I'm not for overpaying a player, but I wouldn't mind some activity being reported that they are freeing up money that gives us hope that attempts are being made to keep a key player or 2.
Click to expand...

I'm not a fan of restructuring every contract you can and pushing the cap hit into the future years. It's like getting out of college and maxing out your credit cards... Getting screwed for years. Restructuring one contract if it was built with that intent in the first place is one thing, but doing that with every contract you can is not good GM'ing...
 
paycheck71 said:
I'm not a fan of restructuring every contract you can and pushing the cap hit into the future years. It's like getting out of college and maxing out your credit cards... Getting screwed for years. Restructuring one contract if it was built with that intent in the first place is one thing, but doing that with every contract you can is not good GM'ing...
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in the nfl, sure it is. Keep pushing Ajs deal and Smiths deal so you never have to pay them that big sum against the cap. Smith could be cut in a few years and AJ will retire in a few years. As for JJo, that one will be tricky.

And I like the idea of locking up Cushing, but I feel he may want to play a year before getting a deal, hed be worth a lot less if signed now
 
paycheck71 said:
I'm not a fan of restructuring every contract you can and pushing the cap hit into the future years. It's like getting out of college and maxing out your credit cards... Getting screwed for years. Restructuring one contract if it was built with that intent in the first place is one thing, but doing that with every contract you can is not good GM'ing...
Click to expand...

I'm not a salary cap expert nor will I ever care enough to get in depth w/ it, but what I've picked up over time is that if a restructure happens it normally converts a base salary that counts against the salary cap into a bonus of some sort. The bonus is guaranteed money now & normally it's spread over the remaining length of the contract. The issue w/ this is if the player is cut before the contract expires then that remaining bonus that has been spread out becomes "dead money" against the cap. So ultimately the team gets hit hard by that bonus in a short period of time against the cap space that becomes useless for a year or 2. This seems to be an issue if their is potential to cut the player in the future because no one can see the future. There is very rarely a player whom is off limits to being cut, but you would believe someone such as Andre may qualify. This is my limited knowledge concerning restructures, but it does seem to be helpful tool if utilized properly & it seems many teams utilize it to their advantage to create space & remain competitive by retaining or obtaining key players. I'm just not sure why the Texans seem reluctant to do the same as it seems we could lose multiple starters this offseason.

I'm sure there is quite a bit more to restructuring & how it effects the cap so if anyone can enlighten us I know I would appreciate it.
 
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