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How to "slow down" the Pats offense and win this game

G

gafftop

All Pro
It seems all the talk is about how to score points.

I think we win the game by doing what we can do and that is long time consuming scoring drives.

My feeling is the way we win the game is a couple of time eating drives maybe one in each half that end in TDs and maybe even a couple that end in fgs. Then we make the Pats take time off the clock in a couple of drives and either get a TO or force them into FGs.

Our four drives 35min = 20 points
Pats 2 drives 13 min 1 TO and 1 fg = 3 points
Leaves 12 minutes left of actual game time. 20-3

We need to make the Pats work for their points. No big quick drives.
We need to control the ball run clock and score points. When offense is on that is just what they do.

What do you think is the best way to make the Pats run time off the clock while they have the ball.

I know we are obsessed with being agressive in red zone but really we need to play within our capabilities. Schaub can only do what he is capable. If he tries to do something he physically can't do, or forces the ball it will be a repeat of earlier this year or last year against the Ravens.

I remember feeling after last year's Ravens game that if TJ had just played like he did against Cincy the week before we would have won that game. Tj forced the ball and made a lot of mistakes.

I hope MS doesn't make the same mistake this year.

So my question is what is best way to get the Pats to take time off the clock ?
 
7

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Rushing 3 or 4 isn't a bad idea, but you have to be willing to watch Brady move the ball methodically downfield like Peyton did against us under Richard Smith and Frank Bush.

Avoid big plays, but their offense might be on the field for a long stretch.
Then you have to stop them in the RZ and limit them to a FG.

On the other side of the ball, we need to be able to do the same.

Make it like a half-court basketball game.

And still we need to do well on ST to have a chance.
I hope for a low scoring game.

You watch and both teams will go crazy, scoring a gazillion points each, LOL.
 
G

gafftop

All Pro
I really think is our best bet. Limit the possesions. Kind of like Princeton does in basketball. I think if NE has the ball say 20 times and we have the ball 20 they get more points than we do. But if we each get the ball 3 times I think we obviously have a better chance of scoring as many or more points.
One mistake under those circumstances means a lot more.

Long point producing drives hopefully ending in TDs is the key.
Slow down the Pats and make them go methodically down the field also.
 
F

Foxboro Steve

Waterboy
The Giants have shown how you beat us. You need 4 quality pass rushers, dropping everyone else into coverage. Rattle Brady. He'll pick you apart if you blitz.
 
G

gtexan02

Working?
Foxboro Steve said:
The Giants have shown how you beat us. You need 4 quality pass rushers, dropping everyone else into coverage. Rattle Brady. He'll pick you apart if you blitz.
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Exactly. The Pats have lost to the Giants in the superbowl because they couldn't score. Not because the Giants put up big numbers. I think the Patriots scored 14 points last superbowl. Thats way below their season average. If the game goes above 20, theres a good chance we lose
 
A

aussie_texan

Veteran
like all games its about 3rd downs, be them offensive or defensive. if we play well on 3rd down we have a good shot if not well it will be over pretty quickly
 
powda

powda

The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
No turnovers
no big plays
no special teams td's
no defensive td's

Get:

Turnovers
Big plays
special teams td's
defensive td's

Playing field position shouldn't happen till the 4th quarter. Anything past the 50 yard line is 4 down territory.Understand that on 3rd down. Zero penalties. Let them stall their own drives by being the more disciplined team. USE CASEY as a receiver out of the back field. Daniels better have a good game as well. Defensively we play conservative on the 1st drive or 2nd and let them show their hand. They can take 3-4 yard gains...on the first couple of drives. I dont wanna get down early. 3rd-4th defensive drives should be kill brady with a lotto bounty.. and I don't care what the score is on those drives. Hurt brady and make them run. Dont be scared to mix zone and man coverage, and stop calling the same damn coverage all game long. Dont show your blitz till the ball is snapped.

On offense i want a tempo between hury up and standard. Thats when we play best. Get schaub in the game early on rhythm with say 6-8 quick short completions. Use the pass to set up the run. Take a shot deep if it's there with Aj. He needs to be in this game. Gimme some misdirection early and alter the snap count. Their game plan is going to be like ours...rattle the qb.
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
gafftop said:
So my question is what is best way to get the Pats to take time off the clock ?
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I think it's best if we don't play games. Keep doing what we do, get after Brady & get him off the field.

Yeah, yeah.... I've heard all the "Brady will eat up the blitz & carve up your secondary" talk. But, we had a pretty good stretch in that game where we held Brady to 1 score over basically a 2 quarter period.

Holding Brady to 14-21 points, I like our chances.

Trying to do the same thing, playing a style we have never played before just doesn't make sense to me.

If we stopped their opening drive, had the ref not called that ticky tack PI & Schaub not thrown that INT, we lead 7-0 & it's a totally different game.

We need to play Houston Texans Football & not look back. If our best isn't good enough it's not good enough, but it's who we are.
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
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Contributor's Club
aussie_texan said:
like all games its about 3rd downs, be them offensive or defensive. if we play well on 3rd down we have a good shot if not well it will be over pretty quickly
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What if we play well on 3rd down & they play well on 3rd down?
 
R

Rey

Guest
It's been so hard avoiding these threads. I have made a commitment to avoiding all negative talk.

With that said, I'm glad there has been so much disrespect coming from NE. Maybe that will get those people fired up to play.
 
C

coltfan123

Waterboy
I beleive this is more on the coaches then the players..nobody is better agaisnt the blitz yet last matchup wade blitzed alot. And worse of all didnt make any adjustments. There is no way the texans can beat the patriots if they cant adjust. Man on man coverage will give brady a field day. I really hope kubiak and co learned during regular season.
 
Marcus

Marcus

Windmill cancer survivor
Contributor's Club
The only way we have any chance of making this even a close ball game . . .

. . . is to win the coin toss, get the ball first, and take it down the field and score. Not a FG, but a TD. Because if we don't do that, and Brady takes it downfield and scores, then that will put tremendous pressure to score on Schaub, and I don't think he's capable of handling that type of pressure. And if they fail to score again . . . it will already be over. TV is turned off.
 
Norg

Norg

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
we tried the Giants and Pittburg formula on beating the pats ( pittsburg did it last year) of just rushing 4 and dropping everyone else man to man coverge i didnt work Brady scored 5 TD well when we did it it didnt work

Since i think we wont get no pressure on Brady anywayz with 3 rushers or hell 5 rushers

we just play our true 3-4 D meaning only rushing 3 and dropping everyone else in a zone/walk around confuse pre snap coverege

i say we dont respect the pats run game and hope JJwatt COdy and Ninja can stop there run game with just 3 down linemen
 
W

Wolf6151

All Pro
JMO:

1. Our O-line has to control the LOS thus allowing us to have an effective running game to control the clock and keep Brady on his sideline. Foster will also have the opportunity to bust a few big plays. These extended drives will eat up the clock and must end with a TD in over half the possessions.

2. Our D-line must be able to pressure Brady up the middle without blitzes and knock Brady around even if we don't get the sack, and we have to do this early in the game. Brady doesn't like pressure in his face or getting knocked around, it rattles him. Everyone else must drop into coverage and jam his receivers at the LOS.

3. We have to play mistake free, no false start penalties, no holding penalties, no pass interference penalties, no offsides penalties. We must play disciplined and smart. No dropped passes or missed blocks, every down is critical because it may be your last. No mistakes by Kubiak on clock management or challenges.

4. Special teams have to play well, don't give up a TD, and win the field position battle.

5. We must start out playing hot and get on top of NE early, we can't try to play catch up with them, Brady is to good for that.
 
Grams

Grams

Veteran
The key to winning this game is on the coaching staff -

Will our coaches have our team as prepared to play as Belicheck will have the Pats prepared to play?

Will our guys be as mentally prepared to play a full 60 minutes of play-off football as the Pats.

Untill we learn how to play with the big boys and win the big games, we will always be the little red-headed step child.
 
F

Foxboro Steve

Waterboy
Dread-Head said:
:thinking: Bring guns unto the field? We're from Texas...they wouldn't be too surprised.
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LMAO

The game's in Mass. You'd have to forfeit because everyone would be doing a mandatory 18mos. for possession of a handgun.

Disclosure: Before everyone mounts me for being a liberal Massachusetts Yankee... I am not in Mass., and I believe in the second amendment.
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
coltfan123 said:
I beleive this is more on the coaches then the players..nobody is better agaisnt the blitz yet last matchup wade blitzed alot. And worse of all didnt make any adjustments. There is no way the texans can beat the patriots if they cant adjust. Man on man coverage will give brady a field day. I really hope kubiak and co learned during regular season.
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Responses like this makes me believe some people listen too much to the media & not enough to the actual game.

For whatever reasons, they scored 21 points in the first 19 minutes of the game. We made some mistakes, they made some plays, they took advantage of us being unprepared, there were some bad calls (really, you'll never hear a holding call against a guy defending a 5 yard route on 3rd & 6 in any other game)... whatever.

The Pats were shut down, gained 30 yards or so, on 5 of their next 6 possessions. 3 of those possessions were 3 & outs.

How can you say Wade didn't adjust?

I'm sorry, but the Patriots offense is the last thing we need to worry about. I know that sounds left field & everything, but our defense has showed they can play with these guys. Our offense is the biggest issue. We're not going to shut out the Patriots.

San Fran couldn't do it, no one should expect us to. Our offense needs to put up points & run out time. Defensively, we'll get a couple of stops, we'll give up a few points.... keeping them under 30 should be considered good. Under 24 should be considered great, under 20 amazing, they are who they are. They averaged 26 points in their losses.
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Marcus said:
The only way we have any chance of making this even a close ball game . . .

. . . is to win the coin toss, get the ball first, and take it down the field and score. Not a FG, but a TD. Because if we don't do that, and Brady takes it downfield and scores, then that will put tremendous pressure to score on Schaub, and I don't think he's capable of handling that type of pressure. And if they fail to score again . . . it will already be over. TV is turned off.
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I'll take it further. To have a realistic chance, not only do we need to score on the first possession of the game, But our defense needs to get the ball back, not allow the Pats to answer with a field goal, much less a TD. Then our offense needs to score another TD.

We've got to go up by 14 early & never let up.

If we don't manage to open a 14 point lead at anytime in the game, I don't see us beating Brady in a playoff game that comes down to the wire.
 
7

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I would still be cheering the Texans on even if they trail by a bunch (I don't think they will though).

How quickly peoe forgot the Jags game, and especially the Lions game.

The Lions are an explosive offensive team, too.
And we didn't have JJo.

How about last year against the Skins, the Chiefs, the Jets, and the Ravens.

The Jets and the Ravens were 6th and 3rd in scoring defense (I don't remember which is which).

Brady may score a few points but the Texans also showed that they can stop them in stretches.

We made a lot of unforced errors in the last game, and if we do that again, we will lose. But this is the play-offs, we should expect that the players keep those mental errors down to a minimum.

We have a fighting chance, but the guys need to step up their game.

Catch the damn ball, don't drop the rock on offense.
Don't let a fumble recovery slip out, and hopefully somebody wil step up and make a big play.

Go Texans. :aggressive:
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
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76Texan said:
I would still be cheering the Texans on even if they trail by a bunch (I don't think they will though).

How quickly peoe forgot the Jags game, and especially the Lions game.

The Lions are an explosive offensive team, too.
And we didn't have JJo.

How about last year against the Skins, the Chiefs, the Jets, and the Ravens.
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If I had a different read on Schaub's confidence, I'd agree with you. But this game, really does lie in his confidence.

I understand your research leads you to believe Schaub has not dropped off in anyway whatsoever, I'm just not believing it & no amount of numbers is going to change my mind.

He didn't look comfortable to me. He didn't look to have adjusted to the excellent protection he was getting last week. & though he made some throws that kept us on the field, I think he was only a small factor in that victory.

I've still got faith that he can snap out of his funk, but if we don't see it early, I don't think we'll see it during the game.
 
7

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Fiddler said:
If I had a different read on Schaub's confidence, I'd agree with you. But this game, really does lie in his confidence.

I understand your research leads you to believe Schaub has not dropped off in anyway whatsoever, I'm just not believing it & no amount of numbers is going to change my mind.

He didn't look comfortable to me. He didn't look to have adjusted to the excellent protection he was getting last week. & though he made some throws that kept us on the field, I think he was only a small factor in that victory.

I've still got faith that he can snap out of his funk, but if we don't see it early, I don't think we'll see it during the game.
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As long as you don't expect him to be perfect, he will be fine.

Don't forget that the Bengals had the 6th ranked defense in yardage and 8th in scoring.

Not only that, they might be the number one defense in the second half of the season.
They allowed just 13.75 points per game in the last 8 games.

They had a better secondary than the Pats.
Neither Jason Allen nor Taylor Mays can find any or much playing time.

When they put Nate in there, they are still good to go with all the experience back there and everywhere, really.

O.D. dropped a sure catch on third down that would have extended the second drive.
There were also a couple of PIs, one on either side (Burfict and Posey) that otherwise would have made Schaub's numbers even better than 29-38 and 262 yards.
 
7

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Fiddler said:
The Pats are 9th in scoring.
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You mean defensively?

Well, they play against a lot of bottom scoring offenses in the league (may more than us):

Chiefts, Jets (twice), Dolphins (twice), Rams.

And they didn't play against as many teams that scored a lot of points as us , either.
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

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76Texan said:
You mean defensively?

Well, they play against a lot of bottom scoring offenses in the league (may more than us):

Chiefts, Jets (twice), Dolphins (twice), Rams.

And they didn't play against as many teams that scored a lot of points as us , either.
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I'd appreciate it if you could let me know which rankings hold meaning for which teams before I counter one of your arguments with the very same ranking.

I mean something like,

We only scored 19 points against the Bengals, but they are the 8th ranked scoring defense. I know the Patriots are 9th in that same ranking, but it doesn't mean the same thing since 19 points won't beat the Patriots.

The Texans are also 9th in points allowed, so expect our defense to hold the Patriots to less than 19 points.
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T

Texan_Touchdown

Noob
I would love to see Kubiak start off running the ball. and eating clock. Get a touchdown. force the patriots to pass so the PA won't be affective. And keep New England out of the endzone. It's going to come down to our Redzone defense which IMO is one of the best in the League. I don't know stats. Also Watt needs to have another great game along with Shaun Cody and Smith. Get pressure up the middle. OLB are going to have a long day..
 
T

Texan_Touchdown

Noob
I pray that Matt Schuab has the game of his life. Andre needs to start catching the ball in important situations. defense red zone is key. Force the Pats to FG we win. big plays will be made down the field. can't stop the Pats in that.
 
F

Fico

Noob
klockWork said:
Only if those pressure comes from a 4 man rush. You can hit Brady all you want when sending 6. All that only means is he's watching his receivers scoring from his back.
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Except when we held them scoreless for nearly 2 quarters we did pressure him. They racked up points when we sat back.

Do what you do best. Thats how great teams play. We are very good at getting after the QB. We should be getting after him again.
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

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Texan_Touchdown said:
I pray that Matt Schuab has the game of his life. Andre needs to start catching the ball in important situations. defense red zone is key. Force the Pats to FG we win. big plays will be made down the field. can't stop the Pats in that.
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He's only dropped two touchdowns in the last two weeks.
 
T

Texan_Touchdown

Noob
Fico said:
Except when we held them scoreless for nearly 2 quarters we did pressure him. They racked up points when we sat back.

Do what you do best. Thats how great teams play. We are very good at getting after the QB. We should be getting after him again.
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Watt hit him countless times, after he threw the ball. Pressure on Brady isn't anything less than a sac, or tipped pass. Pressure doesn't phase that guy until you start taking him to the ground.
 
G

gafftop

All Pro
Matt needs to play the game of his life meaning he makes the proper decisions and play within himself. I am very concerned his thought process/decision making skills might be short circuited due to this being such a big game. If he starts thinking he needs to carry the team and do things that don't suit his skills like trying to force a ball into a tight spot vs seeing the complete field and making the pass to a wide open person then we will have a repeat of last year's Raven game only a lot worse.

Kubiak says it is his job to put Matt in the proper situation to succeed and that is completely true, but Matt's job will be to make the correct decision when put in that situation.

Kubiak and Matt both need to have a great game.

On D I think I want to see more Mercilus than Barwin. I think M has a better chance of providing a big play than Barwin. Barwin gets engaged and from that point on does nothing or rushes wide right out of the play. Now I did not watch him last game? Did he do a better job of freeing himself?

I think it could be a close game if the Texans prevent the big play, play smart, and don't turn the ball over.

If they come out flat again then I am not sure what to say...
 
7

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Fiddler said:
I'd appreciate it if you could let me know which rankings hold meaning for which teams before I counter one of your arguments with the very same ranking.

I mean something like,

​
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Okie, sorry, let make it a little more clear then.

The Bengals had faced 10 QBs that a lot of people on this board said they would take over Schaub; the Patriots faced half that number.

While the Pats secondary had improved lately with the addition of Talib, the Bengals defense also brought it up a notch in the second half.

Scoring 19 points against the Bengals isn't great considering our D had a good day, but it's not bad either.

If the D can play the same against the Pats, then I expect the Texans to score 24 points or more against the Pats.

But Brady likely won't allow that, so I won't be surprised if we only scored 14-17 points. (Obviously bad luck may even prevent that much scoring).

If things even out for both teams in every aspect, I expect the Texans to score between 17-24 points and the Pats to score between 21-28 points.

That also takes into account ST play where we also need to at least stay even and not to give them better field position overall.

The Jets won in 2010, in part due to the fact that they won the field position battle, and because the Pats' Patrick Chung botched a direct snap and fumbled the ball on a faked punt attempt.
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

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if we're going to score more than 21 points or so, we're going to need some turnovers go our way. what are the odds in Foxboro ?
 
7

76Texan

Hall of Fame
thunderkyss said:
if we're going to score more than 21 points or so, we're going to need some turnovers go our way. what are the odds in Foxboro ?
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I just posted in the Eli vs Schaub thread that Schaub is undefeated with the opponents scoring fewer than 20.

I don't know how the Texans are going to manage that, but we've spent a ton of money on FA and high draft picks on the D side.

They just have to get it done.
 
F

Fico

Noob
Texan_Touchdown said:
Watt hit him countless times, after he threw the ball. Pressure on Brady isn't anything less than a sac, or tipped pass. Pressure doesn't phase that guy until you start taking him to the ground.
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Except it did. Watt was hitting him when our defense was getting off the field. Nobody was touching him when they blew the game open in the first half.
 
P

patsfan13

Practice Squad
76Texan said:
The Jets won in 2010, in part due to the fact that they won the field position battle, and because the Pats' Patrick Chung botched a direct snap and fumbled the ball on a faked punt attempt.
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The Chung TO didn't help but Rex came up with a very good gameplan (BB said he was out coached that game) using 7-8 DB and the Pats were unable to exploit that 'gimmick' by running the ball.

They drafted Ridley and Vareen 4 months later to prevent other teams from doing this successfully.

I will be interested to see what Phillips comes up with.

His D's have had trouble with the Pats (thinking his time at Dallas and Buffalo), Brady matches well against the D he likes to run. If I were a Texan fan I want to see how he adapts to slow down the Pats.

Gronk was not effective in the Dolphins game he seemed to be favoring and trying to protect his arm, keep an eye on this.

I also think that Joseph was just coming off an injury and expect he will be tougher in this game.

B Reed's being in this game will also help the Texans out, but I understand that a couple of players from the first game are now out.

How do you guys feel about the health of the team?

For the Pats this is the healthiest they have been in the Playoffs for a couple of years, it doesn't look like the weather will be a factor.
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

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patsfan13 said:
For the Pats this is the healthiest they have been in the Playoffs for a couple of years, it doesn't look like the weather will be a factor.
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This is as healthy as we get.

We're not getting Cushing back, but this will be the first time our starting ILBs will be the same two guys in back to back games since week 6.

Newton, our right tackle, "feels" like he's 100%, he looked good, but I don't know. He didn't play in our Dec game & I believe the reason we struggled running the ball.

Jjo was just getting back from injury when we last played, but I didn't think he was 100% I hadn't thought he played anywhere near 100% all year. Well, except last week. He looked really good, allowing our other DBs to play more aggressive. I know it looks like we play a lot of man, & we do... on the outside. Inside, it's usually a combination of stuff.

Graham has been cleared to play. You may not know his name, but he's really important to what we want to do. We're a three TE offense & we've only got three TEs.

We're healthier than we've been since week 9. Your boys are in big trouble.
 
P

patsfan13

Practice Squad
thunderkyss said:
Graham has been cleared to play. You may not know his name, but he's really important to what we want to do. We're a three TE offense & we've only got three TEs.

We're healthier than we've been since week 9. Your boys are in big trouble.
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I heard about Graham. This could be a factor, the Texans sound like us last year when we were a 2 TE O for our base with only 2TE's on the roster, when Gronk was hurt it was a killer. Will be interested to see how this affects the running game.

IMO BB wants to take away Foster and Johnson, so the TE's could hurt us. Daniels will need to have a BIG day if the Texans want to win IMO.

As you saw the Pats from 7 is good against the run they work hard to set the edge and funnel things back inside to V Wilfork and Spikes. When in the base Spikes who is great against the run can be exploited by a TE with ball skills like Daniels.

I am anxious to see if Dennard and Talib are healthy, if so it makes things a lot better for the Pats D.

Generally opposing fans have been underestimating the Pats D (don't know that this applies to the fans here) IIRC they were 4th in the NFL for pts allowed, they gave up 1 more point than the Bengals over the course of the season.
 
P

Pats

Noob
Fiddler said:
I'm sorry, but the Patriots offense is the last thing we need to worry about. I know that sounds left field & everything, but our defense has showed they can play with these guys. Our offense is the biggest issue.
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oh boy

are you aware that NE has the #1 scoring offense in the nfl and that Gronkowski is coming back? He scored 17 TDs last year. 10 this year before he broke his arm missing weeks.
 
Textan

Textan

Waterboy
Texans will never win in a shootout with the Pats, just won't happen. Texans, if they want success, will eat away that clock on long scoring drives.
Where's that article? I liked the guys analogy of NE being a quick striking Cobra and the Texans being a Constrictor, just slowly squeezing the life out of you.
Best way to shut down a high scoring offense is to keep them on the sidelines.
I'm sure Kubiak has some plans, I hope.
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

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Pats said:
oh boy

are you aware that NE has the #1 scoring offense in the nfl and that Gronkowski is coming back? He scored 17 TDs last year. 10 this year before he broke his arm missing weeks.
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You quoted the whole post.... but didn't read the whole thing.


Not a lot I can do for you.
 
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