Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

Trade with Miami?

badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
Reggie Bush often injured is a free agent for Miami and will probably expect large increase. Would Dolphins be interested in a younger RB who plays 2013 for $575,000? I think so. Tate did not look good against Colts but he was on the field. If he closes out with a good kick through the playoffs, he could be worth a trade.

Prior to his hamstring injury he was 59 for 255 yds @ 4.3. He is on pace for 72/312 5.3. Let's say he is healthy and avg 5+.

Would Dolphins and you make the following deal?

Texans first round + Tate + our 4th for Miami's second round (#43 & #54) and Miami's third round ( #77 and # 82)?

To add substance and something to look at players that are rated by CBSsports near these picks:

#43= DT Kawaan SHort #39 & OT Oday Oboushi #40, CB Jordan Poyer #41, CB Desmond Trufant # 43, WR Justin Hunter #44, RB Giovani Bernard #45

#54 = Wr Robert Woods #49, OT DJ Fluker #52, WR Cordarrelle Patterson #54, FS Phillip Thomas #55

#77= OT Kyle Long # 75, FS Tony Jefferson #77, ILB Alexander Ogletree # 78, Da'Rick Rogers # 79,
# 82= OLB Brandon Jenkins #80, WR Kenny Stills #82, CB David Amerson # 83, Qb Landry Jones #84

I think I'd say hell yeah:

Second round: CB Trufant & WR Patterson then our own for NT Sylvester Williams #69

Third round: QB Landry Jones and our own 3 for OT Brennan Williams & comp ILB Andrew Jackson

I would use the third from Miami and our 5th to trade into late second as we did with Brandon Harris for RB Eddie Lacy #60.

IMO too good to be true so probably is.
 
No way that happens, teams in rebuild mode want more picks not less. Tate plus our third for one of their 2nds would make more sense.
 
I would not do that if I were the Texans, much less Miami. That would be creating a weakness @ RB depth for extra draft picks which the Texans have too many (est 10) for 2013 already.
 
It could make sense for the Dolphins if they can somehow work out a gentleman agreement with Tate's agent to extend his contract during the off-season.

With their two number 2, and one of their 3, they won't be assured of a good RB and what the Texans #1 can bring.

So I can see why they also need to swap another 3 with the Texans 4 to make the deal more equitable.

At the same time, the Texans need to be able to resign Forsett to make sure they have a backup RB.

But even if somebody wants to pay Forsett more, it's OK too.

We have money from Tate and Forsett to find another RB and/or bring back Grimes.

With a bunch of draft picks we can make all kinda of deals to move back up at the "right time" to select a position of our choices at those moments.

Basically, we will be moving Tate to shore up other positions.

I would strongly consider this trade.
 
Fiddler said:
Tate & a third for Wimbley..... what do you think?
Click to expand...

You mean Kamerion Wimbley of the Titans?



76, Grimes is under contract next year for cheap. After leaving the Jets, he signed a 2 year deal with us, and iirc he costs 550k next year. Could take Forsett's spot or possibly Tate's.
 
Dutchrudder said:
You mean Kamerion Wimbley of the Titans?



76, Grimes is under contract next year for cheap. After leaving the Jets, he signed a 2 year deal with us, and iirc he costs 550k next year. Could take Forsett's spot or possibly Tate's.
Click to expand...

What happens now that we just cut him?

Don't we have to resign him to a future contract or something like that?

How does it work?
 
76Texan said:
What happens now that we just cut him?

Don't we have to resign him to a future contract or something like that?

How does it work?
Click to expand...

Oh sorry, I missed that. Well, I would imagine he will be back on the p-squad and stay there for a while. I'm not sure how many games he was on active rosters this year, but I suspect he is still eligible for psquad.

You can't sign players to future/reserve contracts until after the season has ended, so I don't think that's the case.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I would not do that if I were the Texans, much less Miami. That would be creating a weakness @ RB depth for extra draft picks which the Texans have too many (est 10) for 2013 already.
Click to expand...
AT, as stated in my thread I would trade my own 3 & 5 for a second to draft Lacy. I would be willing to go Foster/Lacy/Grimes or another UDFA if Grimes does not return.
 
Dutchrudder said:
No way that happens, teams in rebuild mode want more picks not less. Tate plus our third for one of their 2nds would make more sense.
Click to expand...
You would not trade two middle of second and two middle of third for a starting RB comparable to Bush yet younger and cheaper? Plus getting a first round and a 4th?

Miami first round #13 and 32 + their 4th and ours. Plus Tate. I think they jump all over that.

I would not trade Tate and a third for their second round # 43. I would trade Tate straight up for their #54. You don't focus on his value to us but his value to them. I believe in 2013 he matches Bush's 2012 estimated 1,000 yds.

Miami would want Ben to agree to long term deal.
 
badboy said:
You would not trade two middle of second and two middle of third for a starting RB comparable to Bush yet younger and cheaper? Plus getting a first round and a 4th?

Miami first round #13 and 32 + their 4th and ours. Plus Tate. I think they jump all over that.

I would not trade Tate and a third for their second round # 43. I would trade Tate straight up for their #54. You don't focus on his value to us but his value to them. I believe in 2013 he matches Bush's 2012 estimated 1,000 yds.

Miami would want Ben to agree to long term deal.
Click to expand...

Why would Miami want to make a long term deal with a RB that's been hurt as much as Tate? Why would they want a guy who might just be a system RB with good ypc stats? Why would they pay a premium for that when they don't even have an o-line good enoguh to block for him? They aren't in position to do it, and I think you are greatly overvaluing Tate. He's worth a 4th alone at this point.

I think you need to package Tate and a pick for a single pick. That's it. You just don't see many trades involving multiple picks.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Why would Miami want to make a long term deal with a RB that's been hurt as much as Tate? Why would they want a guy who might just be a system RB with good ypc stats? Why would they pay a premium for that when they don't even have an o-line good enoguh to block for him? They aren't in position to do it, and I think you are greatly overvaluing Tate. He's worth a 4th alone at this point.

I think you need to package Tate and a pick for a single pick. That's it. You just don't see many trades involving multiple picks.
Click to expand...

It's not a premium, at least I don't think so.

It's more like a bird in hand, unless the Dolphins believe that Tate is nothing but an injury waiting to happen.

We don't have that kind of insider information.

We work on the premises that Tate has been showing well without any lingering effect from his injury.

Perhaps his value only worth the most to the Texans; they have the best knowledge about his well-being.

It might be difficult to sell when people don't trust one another.
But coaches and GMs have a certain circle (same as us) where they can see the mutual benefit.

It happens quite often, you know.
 
I don't want Bush. Still.

IF, and I don't wish it one anyone, but if the Redskins find themselves needing an RB due to injury ... then I'd consider trading Tate for one of theirs.
 
Dutchrudder said:
You mean Kamerion Wimbley of the Titans?



76, Grimes is under contract next year for cheap. After leaving the Jets, he signed a 2 year deal with us, and iirc he costs 550k next year. Could take Forsett's spot or possibly Tate's.
Click to expand...

My bad, I meant Cameron Wake... I think.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Why would Miami want to make a long term deal with a RB that's been hurt as much as Tate? Why would they want a guy who might just be a system RB with good ypc stats? Why would they pay a premium for that when they don't even have an o-line good enoguh to block for him? They aren't in position to do it, and I think you are greatly overvaluing Tate. He's worth a 4th alone at this point.

I think you need to package Tate and a pick for a single pick. That's it. You just don't see many trades involving multiple picks.
Click to expand...
They signed Reggie Bush didn't they? Tate's injury was a hamstring which is significant but not a knee for example or ACL. In 2011 he had 942 yds at 5.4 avg. That is about what Bush will do this year but at lesser avg. The "system" will be similar to Houston's ZBS as Mike Sherman runs a derivitive. Wasn't Bush called a system back when he came out?


In Sherman’s scheme, runners must display a decisive, quick burst through the hole, and possess reliable hands for the passing game. Pristine route-running, short-area quickness, and the ability to get tough yards after the catch are valued traits for a WR in Sherman’s scheme; size and straight-line speed are just gravy. The offensive linemen must be intelligent and stout at the point of attack, yet athletic enough to get out and block at the second level. http://nflsfuture.com/2012/12/20/miami-dolphins-2013-offseason-primer/

OT: Jake Long should stay in Miami and he is only 27. If neccesary, an OT could be taken at #32 in my scenario or a Cb which is another priority need. WR and OT in draft and Tate?


I think you are undervalung Tate, I rank him as a third but if he pluses out like I suggested in OP, his value to a team like Miami losing it's current RB is much higher. Give Tannehill a WR like Keenan Allen @ 13 + a younger version of Bush and solidify the OT with Barrett Jones or Lane Johnson? And if Long returns, a CB @ 32 strengthens the defense.

Coaches gamble with QBs, WRs, CBs and RBs. I think Tate would love to be the feature back in a city like Miami.

The more I think of this deal better I like it.
 
Playoffs said:
I don't want Bush. Still.

IF, and I don't wish it one anyone, but if the Redskins find themselves needing an RB due to injury ... then I'd consider trading Tate for one of theirs.
Click to expand...
Where did you get idea Bush was coming to Houston? Maybe you should reread my thread? Unless another poster suggested and I missed that.
 
Fiddler said:
Sounds good for Miami, but we're taking the shaft.
Click to expand...
Shaft? I'll take it and ten more.

2nd round: #43 CB Desmond Trufant, # 54 WR Cordarrelle Patterson, # 55 (Miami #77 & our 5) RB Ed Lacy and # 64 (ours) NT Sylvester Williams

3rd round: (Miami # 82) Qb Landry Jones, (ours) RT Brennan Williams, ILB Andrew Jackson (mario)

5th round: A (Dreesen) OLB Trevardo Williams 11.5 sacks B (Briesel) TE Michael Williams

6th round: DE Kapron Lewis- Moore

7th round: A. CB/S Darrius Slay, B (Jason Allen) OLB Quanterus Smith 12.5 sacks BEFORE injury which should be healed by TC. Even if not carry him IR one year. Worth risk.
 
Fiddler said:
Sounds good for Miami, but we're taking the shaft.
Click to expand...

You obviously under estimate the value of draft picks. Especially second and third round ones. Which is why Miami would never do it. Well that and the fact that Tate's injury history makes him too much of a risk.
 
badboy said:
They signed Reggie Bush didn't they? Tate's injury was a hamstring which is significant but not a knee for example or ACL. In 2011 he had 942 yds at 5.4 avg. That is about what Bush will do this year but at lesser avg. The "system" will be similar to Houston's ZBS as Mike Sherman runs a derivitive. Wasn't Bush called a system back when he came out?
Click to expand...

Do you even know what they traded to get Bush? A guy nobody cares about and they swapped 6th round picks with the Saints. Then they got Bush to sign a 2 year extension as part of the deal. That's hardly a commitment in terms of trade assets. Now you think they will just let Bush walk, and spend a bunch of high round picks on a guy who has had a worse career and injury history than Bush when they traded for him? No way Jose. No chance of this happening. If anything they might give up a 4th alone for him, but that's about it. They aren't that needy of a team, and RBs tend to be low value commodities around the league.

Also, you know they spent a 2nd round pick on Daniel Thomas in 2011 and a 4th on Lamar Miller in 2012, right?
 
badboy said:
Texans first round + Tate + our 4th for Miami's second round (#43 & #54) and Miami's third round ( #77 and # 82)?
Click to expand...

Basically we're giving our first to Miami for their 2 mid-round 2nds & a 4th.

We'll be giving up Ben Tate for two thirds.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Do you even know what they traded to get Bush? A guy nobody cares about and they swapped 6th round picks with the Saints. Then they got Bush to sign a 2 year extension as part of the deal. That's hardly a commitment in terms of trade assets. Now you think they will just let Bush walk, and spend a bunch of high round picks on a guy who has had a worse career and injury history than Bush when they traded for him? No way Jose. No chance of this happening. If anything they might give up a 4th alone for him, but that's about it. They aren't that needy of a team, and RBs tend to be low value commodities around the league.

Also, you know they spent a 2nd round pick on Daniel Thomas in 2011 and a 4th on Lamar Miller in 2012, right?
Click to expand...

^^^^
This

BB, when did you become ridiculous trad scenario guy?

Tate is worth a 3-4th rd pick due to his lengthy injury history. As of right now Bush is the better RB. Tate is worth more to the Texans than his trade low trade value is worth at this moment.
 
To be fair, bb said after a strong showing from Tate in the play-offs.

Something Bush has not done despite the opportunity.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Do you even know what they traded to get Bush? A guy nobody cares about and they swapped 6th round picks with the Saints. Then they got Bush to sign a 2 year extension as part of the deal. That's hardly a commitment in terms of trade assets. Now you think they will just let Bush walk, and spend a bunch of high round picks on a guy who has had a worse career and injury history than Bush when they traded for him? No way Jose. No chance of this happening. If anything they might give up a 4th alone for him, but that's about it. They aren't that needy of a team, and RBs tend to be low value commodities around the league.

Also, you know they spent a 2nd round pick on Daniel Thomas in 2011 and a 4th on Lamar Miller in 2012, right?
Click to expand...
I think fans and teams remember picks only when the can say wow, we got Myers for a 6? or grumble when they give a high pick that fails. Part of the reason I think Miami would want Tate is he is 6'0 205 & 27 & should want that big payoff on a final deal. Tate is 5'11 215 & 24 YOA. Very comparable & Tate comes from a ZBS & could hit field day one. Dolphins GM thinks "hey we hit pay dirt with Bush why not a younger guy"?

Since 2006, Bush has ran for more than 600 yds only last two seasons.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3600/reggie-bush

Tate has had to play behind Foster & showed what he could do in 2011. Surely you guys remember the hope on this MB that Tate would be able to take some of the reps off Arian preseason and prehammy? If a healthy Tate can return to his 2011 stats as a starter for Miami he would be a better back than Bush.

Do you even know what Bush's first two season stats were? 2006: 565 yds 3.6
& 2007: 581 3.7. He dropped the next three years.

I think Miami would make a deal for much less with Tate who would love to be a starter & would work a deal in this off season.

Daniel Thomas? The guy that was injured his rookie year (like Tate) and has been less than mediocre this season? Daniel Thomas? Who just went to IR
with a knee injury?

Miller? The 21 yoa should have remained in school but went for the cash. He can replace Thomas but not Bush.

RBs may be a low commodity but Miami needs to make a push now and give Tannehill some protection. Get him a WR like Keenan with first pick & put Bush's money towards Jake Long (if healthy) or use Texans first for his replacement.

Your argument did not persuade me. :slapfight: lol
 
steelbtexan said:
^^^^
This

BB, when did you become ridiculous trad scenario guy?

Tate is worth a 3-4th rd pick due to his lengthy injury history. As of right now Bush is the better RB. Tate is worth more to the Texans than his trade low trade value is worth at this moment.
Click to expand...
ST when did you become the don't read the entire thread dude? As Fiddler pointed out, I said the trade would happen only if Tate is healthy and does well from now to end of season. To be fair, Tate missed entire rookie year but came back next season with 15 games 942 @5.4.
He has played in 9 of 14 games & should play tomorrow. I doubt that scares many coaches. especially if he breaks 5.4 rest of year, healthy.

As of right now Bush is better back but not necessarily the better choice for Miami next season as he should demand big $ for final contract. That has to be considered also.
 
badboy said:
I think fans and teams remember picks only when the can say wow, we got Myers for a 6? or grumble when they give a high pick that fails. Part of the reason I think Miami would want Tate is he is 6'0 205 & 27 & should want that big payoff on a final deal. Tate is 5'11 215 & 24 YOA. Very comparable & Tate comes from a ZBS & could hit field day one. Dolphins GM thinks "hey we hit pay dirt with Bush why not a younger guy"?

Since 2006, Bush has ran for more than 600 yds only last two seasons.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3600/reggie-bush

Tate has had to play behind Foster & showed what he could do in 2011. Surely you guys remember the hope on this MB that Tate would be able to take some of the reps off Arian preseason and prehammy? If a healthy Tate can return to his 2011 stats as a starter for Miami he would be a better back than Bush.

Do you even know what Bush's first two season stats were? 2006: 565 yds 3.6
& 2007: 581 3.7. He dropped the next three years.

I think Miami would make a deal for much less with Tate who would love to be a starter & would work a deal in this off season.

Daniel Thomas? The guy that was injured his rookie year (like Tate) and has been less than mediocre this season? Daniel Thomas? Who just went to IR
with a knee injury?

Miller? The 21 yoa should have remained in school but went for the cash. He can replace Thomas but not Bush.

RBs may be a low commodity but Miami needs to make a push now and give Tannehill some protection. Get him a WR like Keenan with first pick & put Bush's money towards Jake Long (if healthy) or use Texans first for his replacement.

Your argument did not persuade me. :slapfight: lol
Click to expand...

Why on earth are you looking at Bush's 2006/07 stats for comparison? Why are you leaving out the 1150 yards of receiving he had in a pass happy offense? Why are you ignoring his production IN Miami the past two years? Are you really that entrenched on this idea that you're willing to ignore the relevant info? Bush has been good for Miami, and I expect them to re-sign him for a decent amount.

Bush was an oft injured guy with a lot of talent who was never a feature back in New Orleans. Tate could be a similar story, but the fact is nobody is giving up a buttload of picks for him. Bush basically cost them nothing and came at a reasonable salary, it was a low-risk move. The trade you are throwing out there is a high-risk for Miami, but it's awesome for Houston. Try taking this idea over to a Dolphins forum and posting it, see what they say. Link it back here and we can all see what happens. :spin:
 
badboy said:
AT, as stated in my thread I would trade my own 3 & 5 for a second to draft Lacy. I would be willing to go Foster/Lacy/Grimes or another UDFA if Grimes does not return.
Click to expand...

Sorry it has taken me a while to get back to this. IMO, as a team that in 2013 will still consider itself a Superbowl contender trading a low-cost veteran who if healthy has proven to work in the Texans system makes no practical sense. The move would be to have Foster, tate, and a mid-round rookie to replace Tate when he does cost too much after 2013 season. Lacy is good solid prospect, but I personally would not try to rely on a rookie who projects nice player, when the team already has a solid player in salary cap football.
 
Dutchrudder said:
Why on earth are you looking at Bush's 2006/07 stats for comparison? Why are you leaving out the 1150 yards of receiving he had in a pass happy offense? Why are you ignoring his production IN Miami the past two years? Are you really that entrenched on this idea that you're willing to ignore the relevant info? Bush has been good for Miami, and I expect them to re-sign him for a decent amount.

Bush was an oft injured guy with a lot of talent who was never a feature back in New Orleans. Tate could be a similar story, but the fact is nobody is giving up a buttload of picks for him. Bush basically cost them nothing and came at a reasonable salary, it was a low-risk move. The trade you are throwing out there is a high-risk for Miami, but it's awesome for Houston. Try taking this idea over to a Dolphins forum and posting it, see what they say. Link it back here and we can all see what happens. :spin:
Click to expand...
My thought is that we should keep in mind comparable years in two players careers. I take same approach when folks knock Newton. When you compare him with D Brown early, Derek looks very good. I also think if Long is healthy, he will command a huge salary especially if franchised (over $15m I think). Will Miami pay both? Tate's healthy year in 2011 compares with Bush's 2012. Why should Bush settle for "decent"? Foster is on a SB type team, Bush isn't and it is his last prime deal. If Tate pluses out this season, I would rather have him than Bush (younger and cheaper and raring to be "the guy"). Anyone have stats on Tate this game. Did not look like he got many.

You keep saying "butt load of picks for Tate" which is not actually accurate. Don't leave out the first and fourth round they get. As someone (76?) pointed out upstream, it is like Tate and a 4th for two thirds. I think that would be fairly close IF Tate ends strong.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Sorry it has taken me a while to get back to this. IMO, as a team that in 2013 will still consider itself a Superbowl contender trading a low-cost veteran who if healthy has proven to work in the Texans system makes no practical sense. The move would be to have Foster, tate, and a mid-round rookie to replace Tate when he does cost too much after 2013 season. Lacy is good solid prospect, but I personally would not try to rely on a rookie who projects nice player, when the team already has a solid player in salary cap football.
Click to expand...
Understood and I pondered that. We have Tate signed only for 2013. I'm thinking he wants Foster $ as he said that right after Arian got his new deal. Unfortunately for Tate, his hamstring might be costing him. At least he has one more season. In your scenario and I don't necessarily disagree it will go down that way, Texans use Tate cheap 2013 $575,000 then kick him loose unless he signs a bargain deal.

A healthy Tate with a good end to this season has more value to a team like Miami as a cheap starter (with an extended deal) than to Houston as a backup IF Tate accepts that role. I think he is gone in FA.
 
badboy said:
Understood and I pondered that. We have Tate signed only for 2013. I'm thinking he wants Foster $ as he said that right after Arian got his new deal. Unfortunately for Tate, his hamstring might be costing him. At least he has one more season. In your scenario and I don't necessarily disagree it will go down that way, Texans use Tate cheap 2013 $575,000 then kick him loose unless he signs a bargain deal.

A healthy Tate with a good end to this season has more value to a team like Miami as a cheap starter (with an extended deal) than to Houston as a backup IF Tate accepts that role. I think he is gone in FA.
Click to expand...

As you pointed out, Tate has no bargaining power to command "Foster $". One good year (and a piece of another) out of three won't get him a Foster-type contract.

I could see trading Tate to Atlanta because they should be looking for a Michael Turner replacement. Maybe Arizona or Detroit since they could definitely use a boost to their running games.

I'm curious as to why you singled out Miami...??
 
ObsiWan said:
As you pointed out, Tate has no bargaining power to command "Foster $". One good year (and a piece of another) out of three won't get him a Foster-type contract.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind he prefaced this with a strong play off performance from Tate.
 
Fiddler said:
Keep in mind he prefaced this with a strong play off performance from Tate.
Click to expand...

Okay, let's say that happens. My other question still stands unanswered; why Miami? Seems like there are other teams with a more dire need at RB. We might get more out of them than Miami. They still seem good with Reggie Bush. Like I said, Arizona and Detroit pop immediately to mind when I think of teams who could stand a running game boost. And we could probably get more out of Arizona (see Kevin Kolb deal :D )
 
ObsiWan said:
As you pointed out, Tate has no bargaining power to command "Foster $". One good year (and a piece of another) out of three won't get him a Foster-type contract.

I could see trading Tate to Atlanta because they should be looking for a Michael Turner replacement. Maybe Arizona or Detroit since they could definitely use a boost to their running games.

I'm curious as to why you singled out Miami...??
Click to expand...
Dolphins have 2 seconds and 2 thirds and need to make a bang in off season imo. Bush is a FA with probably one last contract to set him up. Tate is a similar back with OC that runs a similar style to Texans. Miami looks at how Bush was successful after injuries & Tate could be the same. Miami has a young QB that needs some options like a WR @ #14, keeping an RB like Bush that not only runs but can catch. A free agent tackle who if healthy will command big bucks soaking up cap space. Tate's cheap final year in '13 gives Miami a good bit of leeway over a re-signed Bush. If Jake Long cannot come back, having Houston's first would be sweet for them. Reggie is in his last year now.

Atlanta a SB contender will not have the same urgency to make a good deal with us.
 
Miami is not trading for Ben Tate. No one is.

Not unless he tears it up in the play offs which isn't likely.
 
Rey said:
Miami is not trading for Ben Tate. No one is.

Not unless he tears it up in the play offs which isn't likely.
Click to expand...
Tate has the opportunity to tear it up. It is on him. As I said in original post, dealing Tate depends on his productivity. It may not be likely but he was playing well before the hamstring so it is not impossible.
 
Fiddler said:
To be fair, bb said after a strong showing from Tate in the play-offs.

Something Bush has not done despite the opportunity.
Click to expand...

What?

Bush has done quite well in the play-offs...

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/9588/seasontype/3/reggie-bush

Go look at Bush's rushing, receiving and punt return stats in the 2009 play-offs. Hint: He scored a receiving TD, Rushing TD and return TD in that post season. And he had good averages in all phases. Converted quite a few first downs, and pretty much made the most out of his opportunities.

If Tate does that we'd be crowning him around here. :king:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top