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"You take the 3 points and move on"

Yankee_In_TX

Dance Lindsay!
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
 

rmartin65

Phil Kessel: Nice Guy. Tries Hard.
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
It absolutely worries me. Sure, you dont throw into double coverage, but you shouldn't do that anyway. Throw a safe pass to the corner of the end zone, either our guy gets it, or its an incomplete. However, I dont think Schaub is good enough to make that throw consistently. That may be why we dont ever see that throw.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It absolutely worries me. Sure, you dont throw into double coverage, but you shouldn't do that anyway. Throw a safe pass to the corner of the end zone, either our guy gets it, or its an incomplete. However, I dont think Schaub is good enough to make that throw consistently. That may be why we dont ever see that throw.
I agree. The draw play from there gives you the worst odds of scoring a TD or even making a positive play. Put the ball in the QB's hands. Maybe he can hit someone on a slant that scores. Maybe he sees nothing & he throws it away.

However, I think Kubiak saw 2 plays get blown up, another mistake just waiting to happen. So he went with the safest play. I guarantee no one would be giving Gary a pass, if he called a fade to Andre that's picked off & changes the momentum of the game.

This team (as we saw against New England) is still capable of giving games away.

I don't agree with that approach. They'll never grow if you keep protecting them. I like what Harbaugh is doing with his green QB. That guy made some bone headed decisions, but the rest of the team stepped up & minimized their effects. We tend to snowball. He needs to figure out why that's the case & fix it. I think it's because we have such a hodge-podge of players on offense, only two first round picks. Two guys who are used to winning, expect to win.

Defensively we've got the pedigree, of guys who expect to win.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?

No, it doesn't. It's correct if unappealing on the surface. Sometimes I wish they'd get their gamble on a little more but it's not like this doesn't work. It's obviously working just fine and has been since, well probably since 2007 to be honest.

Gary fixed the offense (fixed by his definition I think) in 2007 when he brought Schaub in and our offensive stats started climbing. What he didn't fix was the defense and that is why we were looking at 8-8, 8-8, 9-7, and 6-10. A defense of any ability on those teams probably turns that into at least a few 10+ win seasons with a little luck against the injury bug mixed in.

We're good. Remains to be seen if we're good enough but you know, after watching the 49'ers in the first half of their game last night make the Patriots look like us when we played the Patriots, and then nearly collapse and give it all away I'm forced to conclude that NFL football is a game of preparedness and controlled emotion. We're as good as any team in the league. Getting better isn't going to happen because there is no "better" in terms of collected talent out there. It's about coaching and consistency and finding a spark ("it" factor, whatever). Teams get hot and cold through the course of the year and we talk about peaking too soon or too late. Harbaugh changed out Smith for Kapernick (sp?) and at the time I thought he was making a mistake but Kap gives them a spark and the rest is already in place. Coaching is solid, talent level is consistent with a contender, and they have enough experience to handle adversity. Add a spark and things happen.

The Texans are young, don't all know how to handle adversity too well, and at least on the offensive side we don't have anyone giving us that spark consistently. Sometimes AJ can do it, Foster can get rolling and make it happen. Every once in a while Schaub has a magic day where he can do it. No one there consistently does it though. Not like Watt does on the defensive side. That's the difference between Schaub and the Bradys and Rogers of the world. Mostly Schaub runs the machine and sometimes he provides the energy with his play. Those other guys that get the elite title get it because they make it happen most of the time and when they don't get it done that's the exception to the rule.

What we've been seeing for most of the last 6-7 games has been a good team with no spark on offense. We're just good enough to beat most teams and we got lucky a little too. AJ stepped up and put the team on his shoulders for a few weeks.

Somebody on the offense needs to throw this thing on his shoulders and lead on the field, hold everyone else accountable, and provide the spark that makes the offense run like it is capable of running during the playoffs. Doesn't matter who but someone needs to bring the energy. That's what I think anyway.

I don't hold this over Kubiak anymore. He built the kind of offense that he knows how to build and he's seen it work in the past. It's up to the guys on the field to make plays now.
 
Last edited:

Exascor

Veteran
Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
Not really. It's just smart football. It's not always pretty but it works. We scream at the TV when we see it but the end result is the same. 12 times Kubiak & Schaub have won this season using that strategy. We could add more from last year as well. The system works most of the time. Actually Kubiak's system has worked more times this season than Belichick's system. No reason to be worried.
 

TheRealJoker

Hall of Fame
We typically don't beat teams that Kubiak believes we can't "settle for FG's" against. EX: Peyton's Colts, Rodgers, Brady, Brees. When Kubiak feels like he has to be aggressive in his playcalling we make bad decisions.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Arm strength has 0 to do with why we don't throw in the red zone. It's b/c the field is shorter, defenders are in closer proximity than they normally are, which makes them a little more agressive driving on short crossing routes & curls, def coordinators are less afraid of being burned if they choose to blitz...it's just too risky for an offense. Matt's right, against good teams you have to take the points when you can get them...don't even see why this is a debate.

Fans keep calling for that fade/jump ball throw to AJ like it's a surefire TD if we throw it to him just b/c on paper the match up favors us 9 out of 10 times. Those kind of throws are at best 50/50 balls b/c many times the db doesn't have to turn his back & run with the WR..he can just back up & get a hand on the ball....possibly tip it to himself or another nearby defender.

Last year this is all Stafford & Calvin Johnson did in the end zone & they were extremely successful...This year, not so much. & we all saw what happened to the Ravens right before the half yesterday trying to do this exact same thing; pick 6 the other way.


Maybe you mix up your playcalling a bit and run a few trick pass plays but for the most part i agree with schaub here & don't really have a problem with them taking the points.

Running the ball is a strength of ours, we've got 1 of the best rb's in the game that has a nose for the end zone.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Somebody on the offense needs to throw this thing on his shoulders and lead on the field, hold everyone else accountable, and provide the spark that makes the offense run like it is capable of running during the playoffs. Doesn't matter who but someone needs to bring the energy. That's what I think anyway.
Solid post Hervoyel. I agree with everything you said, except, I believe that person has to be Matt Schaub. No two ways about it.

He's the QB, he runs the offense. I don't mean that he needs to be Tom Brady. I don't think he needs to run up the stats. He needs to be the leader.

I know, you'll have some guys coming in here & saying to a T the guys in the locker room point towards Matt Schaub being the leader of the offense, but he needs to take it to another level.

When we need a play, Matt should be able to demand it from his guys & they should deliver. If that's not happening, he's not the guy we need.

He's not elite, we know that. He's not clutch, we know that. He's not athletic, we know that. He doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, we know that. For him to be the guy to keep us in Super Bowl contention year in & year out, Matt has to be the kind of leader we see in the great QBs.

It's obvious when you look at Young, Montana, Aikman, Brady, Manning. He doesn't have to yell at the players on the field, those guys may have done that, but that's not what made them great leaders.

Is Schaub the leader of offense? Sure. Is he a great leader?

I think we're about to find out.
 

Yankee_In_TX

Dance Lindsay!
I'll rep and read the responses later, some very well thought out replies.

Something relevant that should have been in the OP - they were apparently very worried about the edge rushers the entire game. He did not reference that when speaking to the field goals, but seems like Schaub and Kubiak we worried about the D's ability to get to Schaub.

That may have factored into the conservative play/attitude.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
We typically don't beat teams that Kubiak believes we can't "settle for FG's" against. EX: Peyton's Colts, Rodgers, Brady, Brees. When Kubiak feels like he has to be aggressive in his playcalling we make bad decisions.
Kubiak is 1-1 against Rodgers and Brees.
He's 1-2 against Brady, but the team he took over was in rebuilding mode.
We lost a bunch to Manning for the same reason (several games were close).

This system has been proven with the Broncos for a long time, and now here.

With a top 10 defense it brings competitive (play-off contending) years in and years out.

Percentage football, that's what I always call it.

P.S. - Nice post, Herv.
 
Also, I'm not sure it's accurate to put it on Schaub. He's a very politically correct guy and he's going to echo the coach regardless.
 

eriadoc

Texan-American
As a rule, it doesn't bother me. Like any rule, however, it should always be breakable. There are times, like the first FG of the game yesterday, when you take the FG and don't look back. I get the frustration on that series, because it's been building in fans for years. But it's absolutely correct to take the FG. What bothers me about the mindset is that it seems to have removed any thought of even TRYING at times. If it's 3rd and long, there are plays you can run that are reasonable in their risk vs. reward that actually give a chance to accomplish something. A 3rd and long draw play is simply giving up. That's the right move sometimes, but not to the point that Kubiak and Schaub do it.

At the end of it all, I get the feeling that Kubiak is so much a control freak that he won't entrust his QB and offense to take a shot. Whether he can trust them or not, this is the team that he put together. So if he thinks he can't trust them to take a shot at the end zone without turning it over, then why the hell did he choose players he can't trust?
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Solid post Hervoyel. I agree with everything you said, except, I believe that person has to be Matt Schaub. No two ways about it.

He's the QB, he runs the offense. I don't mean that he needs to be Tom Brady. I don't think he needs to run up the stats. He needs to be the leader.

I know, you'll have some guys coming in here & saying to a T the guys in the locker room point towards Matt Schaub being the leader of the offense, but he needs to take it to another level.

When we need a play, Matt should be able to demand it from his guys & they should deliver. If that's not happening, he's not the guy we need.

He's not elite, we know that. He's not clutch, we know that. He's not athletic, we know that. He doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, we know that. For him to be the guy to keep us in Super Bowl contention year in & year out, Matt has to be the kind of leader we see in the great QBs.

It's obvious when you look at Young, Montana, Aikman, Brady, Manning. He doesn't have to yell at the players on the field, those guys may have done that, but that's not what made them great leaders.

Is Schaub the leader of offense? Sure. Is he a great leader?

I think we're about to find out.
This passage right here is funny. In 1 breath you acknowledge that he isn't elite which all of us in here agree with im sure. But virtually everything you list after that is exactly what makes the elite qbs in the league......well......elite.

You can't have it both ways..he's either elite or he isn't & im sure you're not going to argue that he is elite.........................are you?
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
People would be freaking out today if they tried to throw and it got picked. They'd be screaming what an idiot Kubiak is for not playing the percentages and taking the easy points of a gimme FG.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
People would be freaking out today if they tried to throw and it got picked. They'd be screaming what an idiot Kubiak is for not playing the percentages and taking the easy points of a gimme FG.
To be honest, I used to question his play call, too.

But when I had a chance to really study everything, I found myself an idiot for the most part.

I still question some of his calls, but I don't jump too quickly to a conclusion hardly anymore.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
As a rule, it doesn't bother me. Like any rule, however, it should always be breakable. There are times, like the first FG of the game yesterday, when you take the FG and don't look back. I get the frustration on that series, because it's been building in fans for years. But it's absolutely correct to take the FG. What bothers me about the mindset is that it seems to have removed any thought of even TRYING at times. If it's 3rd and long, there are plays you can run that are reasonable in their risk vs. reward that actually give a chance to accomplish something. A 3rd and long draw play is simply giving up. That's the right move sometimes, but not to the point that Kubiak and Schaub do it.

At the end of it all, I get the feeling that Kubiak is so much a control freak that he won't entrust his QB and offense to take a shot. Whether he can trust them or not, this is the team that he put together. So if he thinks he can't trust them to take a shot at the end zone without turning it over, then why the hell did he choose players he can't trust?
Except there was plenty times in yesterday's game where we were third & long and not only did we take a chance, we converted.

And I don't think he doesn't trust them. I think he understands the pulse of the team. I need to see that series again, but I'm sure the two plays that pushed us back to 3rd & goal from the 15 were pretty bad. When the offense has too many bad plays close together, he will turtle up & I don't know if that's a bad thing.
 

Yankee_In_TX

Dance Lindsay!
Except there was plenty times in yesterday's game where we were third & long and not only did we take a chance, we converted.

And I don't think he doesn't trust them. I think he understands the pulse of the team. I need to see that series again, but I'm sure the two plays that pushed us back to 3rd & goal from the 15 were pretty bad. When the offense has too many bad plays close together, he will turtle up & I don't know if that's a bad thing.
For the OP, I am ONLY referring to the endzone. Schaub said it very matter of factly - kind of 'you're Les Miles' or 'Pete Carroll' if you do anything other than hand off and kick for 3.

My questions is not necesarrily on that one play, but for the entire season is that kind of coaching/attitude part of our redzone problems? Is there reason for concern if we plan to take that to the playoffs?
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
When is the last time this team lost a game it led in the second half? It's been a very long time. These are good decisions.

By the way, they do take chances when needed. For instance, at 23-17, the Texans converted a 3rd and 15 to AJ for 17 yards yesterday.

Late in the Denver game, we were up 6 pts with about 2 minutes to go... On 3rd and 4 (or so), we converted the first on a pass to AJ- instead of running the ball to keep the clock moving.
 
I wouldn't mind this with a rookie QB but I wish we'd take a shot in these spots with Schaub, he can always just chuck it out the back of the endzone.
 

Yankee_In_TX

Dance Lindsay!
When is the last time this team lost a game it led in the second half? It's been a very long time. These are good decisions.

By the way, they do take chances when needed. For instance, at 23-17, the Texans converted a 3rd and 15 to AJ for 17 yards yesterday.

Late in the Denver game, we were up 6 pts with about 2 minutes to go... On 3rd and 4 (or so), we converted the first on a pass to AJ- instead of running the ball to keep the clock moving.
Again, endzone only. Schaub said this specifically about the shortened field when you're on/at the goal line.
 

ChampionTexan

Hall of Fame
People would be freaking out today if they tried to throw and it got picked. They'd be screaming what an idiot Kubiak is for not playing the percentages and taking the easy points of a gimme FG.
Yeah, Kubiak has a pretty good record of coaching with the lead and in close games. I'm not saying there's never been a large lead that was surrendered, but there haven't been many, and in the last two years we're 9-2 in games decided by one score (8 points) or less. I don't know this for a fact, but I'm guessing that's the best percentage in the NFL over that period. Yeah, part of that is because of what has been described as "turtling", but in the last two seasons (32 games counting playoff games), there's been one time where we had a double-digit lead and didn't end up winning the game - that was when we took a 10-0 lead on the Saints last season and ended up losing 40-33. During this period, we've never lost a game where we led by 11 or more points.

Yeah, maybe we have weaknesses and areas that need improvement, and maybe the play calling seems conservative and risk averse. And maybe - just maybe - those two things are not unrelated.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
To be honest, I used to question his play call, too.

But when I had a chance to really study everything, I found myself an idiot for the most part.

I still question some of his calls, but I don't jump too quickly to a conclusion hardly anymore.
I'm not going to lie. I wanted him to go for a TD on that play, as well.

However, I did not get pissed off when they settled for 3. I understand percentages and the attitude of depending on your defense, even when they have shown some signs of not being too dependable lately.

Yeah, Kubiak has a pretty good record of coaching with the lead and in close games. I'm not saying there's never been a large lead that was surrendered, but there haven't been many, and in the last two years we're 9-2 in games decided by one score (8 points) or less. Yeah, part of that is because of what has been described as "turtling", but in the last two seasons (32 games counting playoff games), there's been one time where we had a double-digit lead and didn't end up winning the game - that was when we took a 10-0 lead on the Saints last season and ended up losing 40-33. During this period, we've never lost a game where we led by 11 or more points.

Yeah, maybe we have weaknesses and areas that need improvement, and maybe the play calling seems conservative and risk averse. And maybe - just maybe - those two things are not unrelated.
I heard something awhile back on local radio that indicated Kubiak had learned this conservative style from Bill Walsh. Kubiak is certainly not the first HC to play percentages and try to protect a lead, and he won't be the last.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
For the OP, I am ONLY referring to the endzone. Schaub said it very matter of factly - kind of 'you're Les Miles' or 'Pete Carroll' if you do anything other than hand off and kick for 3.

My questions is not necesarrily on that one play, but for the entire season is that kind of coaching/attitude part of our redzone problems? Is there reason for concern if we plan to take that to the playoffs?
Nope, there has been plenty of time when Kubiak said we need to go get that one yard no matter that the Defense stacks it up.

We've converted plenty of them.

Like a professional gambler, you go with the odds, with an occasional twist here and there.

Stay in the game, it gives you the best percentage to win the tournament.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
This passage right here is funny. In 1 breath you acknowledge that he isn't elite which all of us in here agree with im sure. But virtually everything you list after that is exactly what makes the elite qbs in the league......well......elite.

You can't have it both ways..he's either elite or he isn't & im sure you're not going to argue that he is elite.........................are you?
I'm saying he doesn't have the physical attributes that made those players great/elite. But he's going to have to have their leadership.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I'm not going to lie. I wanted him to go for a TD on that play, as well.

However, I did not get pissed off when they settled for 3. I understand percentages and the attitude of depending on your defense, even when they have shown some signs of not being too dependable lately.



I heard something awhile back on local radio that indicated Kubiak had learned this conservative style from Bill Walsh. Kubiak is certainly not the first HC to play percentages and try to protect a lead, and he won't be the last.
Neither Walsh nor Shannahan are the gambling style.

Heck, Walsh didn't even allow Montana much freedom in his first five years.

DB, MSR, as usual.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Solid post Hervoyel. I agree with everything you said, except, I believe that person has to be Matt Schaub. No two ways about it.

He's the QB, he runs the offense. I don't mean that he needs to be Tom Brady. I don't think he needs to run up the stats. He needs to be the leader.

I know, you'll have some guys coming in here & saying to a T the guys in the locker room point towards Matt Schaub being the leader of the offense, but he needs to take it to another level.

When we need a play, Matt should be able to demand it from his guys & they should deliver. If that's not happening, he's not the guy we need.

He's not elite, we know that. He's not clutch, we know that. He's not athletic, we know that. He doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, we know that. For him to be the guy to keep us in Super Bowl contention year in & year out, Matt has to be the kind of leader we see in the great QBs.

It's obvious when you look at Young, Montana, Aikman, Brady, Manning. He doesn't have to yell at the players on the field, those guys may have done that, but that's not what made them great leaders.

Is Schaub the leader of offense? Sure. Is he a great leader?

I think we're about to find out.
I wonder how many teams would try to seek out and draft their franchise QB
based on those qualifications........has to make you think.......and now has got to leave you praying that we go into the playoffs with that last characteristic not only present, but strong enough to overcome all the other admitted "deficiencies."
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I wonder how many teams would try to seek out and draft their franchise QB
based on those qualifications........has to make you think.......and now has got to leave you praying that we go into the playoffs with that last characteristic not only present, but strong enough to overcome all the other admitted "deficiencies."
If this offense was clicking like it was last year before Schaub got hurt, would you?

Then how many teams have started the season 12-2 & been in a position to get that franchise QB?

As far as the draft goes, I think we should continue to collect picks for the next couple of years until we have enough capital to move up & get our guy without hurting our future.

Yates doesn't run this offense as well as Schaub & I have no idea how Case would do, but I think we'd hold our head above water with them, if our Young OL starts to dominate next year like we did last year. Not that I want either guy to replace Schaub. Just saying if he doesn't complete next season, we'll be all right.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Ok, just watched the series that ended with the draw on 3rd & goal from the 15.

It was our first drive of the 2nd half, started at 13:53 in the 3rd. Very nice drives, heavy on the run game. Saw a little Tate, a little Posey (run blocking). Foster gets the ball to the 8 yard line.
1st & goal, Myers is blown up, backed into Foster in the backfield. LeStar Jean, worthless block on the backside. Foster stopped for a 1 yard loss.
2nd & goal from the 9. Play action, Schaub getting ready to throw. Freeny blows past Brown, Redding splits Newton & Jones, meet at the QB loss of 6
3rd & goal from the 15. We run the draw, Foster weaves through traffic, is stopped at the 8​

So there is three plays back to back to back where someone or a few someones screwed the pooch. Instead of taking a chance on a 4th mistake, he goes with the safe play. The draw.

I'm convinced if we go back to look at every situation where we run the draw on 3rd & forever, it is because we have a string of mistakes leading up to it.

I just don't think we're as talented on offense as we need to be to commit mistake after mistake & be able to overcome it. I'm sure that is why Kubiak calls the game the way he does.

In 2008 & 2009, even 2010 we've seen him take chances & these same situations turn real ugly, real fast.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
Nothing but speculation on my part: Kubiak has a long-term QB project in the works all the time. He never stops looking for the next Houston Texans starting QB. I think when he finds a (late round/UDFA) guy he wants to take a long look at it he brings them in and starts working with them. When that guy stops absorbing information or demonstrates that he's not able to do what he needs to then Kubiak moves on to the next one. Schaub's eventual successor will most likely be somebody we pick up like this and who sticks. Could be Yates or Keenum if he can learn it and do it, could be someone else I think that for Kubiak this is as much his hobby as it is his job.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
I'm saying he doesn't have the physical attributes that made those players great/elite. But he's going to have to have their leadership.
How good you are as a leader is often enhanced by what you have accomplished.

Last night Tom Brady's antics were characterized by Collinsworth & company as him being "fiery" and "competitive". Why? b/c he has 3 SB rings & a couple of MVP's.

Now, Jay Cutler/ Phillip Rivers do many of the same things that Brady did last night but both are seen by many as petulant whiny little children...why? the only logical answer is b/c they haven't won anything of significance.

So my question to you is what makes you think that Schaub's coaches & teammates don't think that he has that elite leadership you're speaking of? B/c you could argue his even-kiel attitude is the very definition of what an elite leader is supposed to be. It was the defining characteristic of tons of qb leaders over the years, namely Joe Montana of course.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Nothing but speculation on my part: Kubiak has a long-term QB project in the works all the time. He never stops looking for the next Houston Texans starting QB. I think when he finds a (late round/UDFA) guy he wants to take a long look at it he brings them in and starts working with them. When that guy stops absorbing information or demonstrates that he's not able to do what he needs to then Kubiak moves on to the next one. Schaub's eventual successor will most likely be somebody we pick up like this and who sticks. Could be Yates or Keenum if he can learn it and do it, could be someone else I think that for Kubiak this is as much his hobby as it is his job.
I tend to agree with you. Like having a hobby such as radio controlled planes..........if one crashes, you can try to repair it.......or just throw it away and get yourself another.
 

Rey

Guest
Arm strength has 0 to do with why we don't throw in the red zone. It's b/c the field is shorter, defenders are in closer proximity than they normally are, which makes them a little more agressive driving on short crossing routes & curls, def coordinators are less afraid of being burned if they choose to blitz..
People don't blitz on passing plays all that often in the redzone. It makes much more sense to sit back in a zone and force the QB to throw into a tight window. If he tries to run it, you have people looking at him.

QB's that can move well and put pressure on the defense with their legs and/or arm tend to have a lot of RED ZONE success.

And I disagree that arm strength doesn't have anything to do with it. IMO it has A LOT to do with it. You said it yourself...The windows are smaller. Arm strength becomes more apparent in shorter spaces. Guys with guns can zip balls into tight spaces on a regular basis. Having some mobility also helps because it makes defenders abandon their zones to stop the QB from running.

Schaub doesn't have either one of those attributes going for him and that's why he's never been a really good Red Zone QB.
 

Rey

Guest
People would be freaking out today if they tried to throw and it got picked. They'd be screaming what an idiot Kubiak is for not playing the percentages and taking the easy points of a gimme FG.
You are probably right...

People would also freak out if Kubiak kept settling for field goals and the ST didn't bail us out with scoring a TD...


Chester Pitts was just on the radio and he said that he did not like when Kubiak would get into the Red Zone and call plays like that. He said that they had done all the work to get down there and then all of a sudden they start calling plays differently.

He didn't say Kubiak was too conservative...he kind of danced around it. But he did say that he didn't like the way the plays were called in the Red Zone.
 

Rey

Guest
So Schaub was discussing the game this morning. He was very comfortable with the field goals given the down and distances. For instance, on the 3rd and 15 (goal) he said (paraphrasing) pretty much every team will just run the ball and kick the field goal, you don't want to risk a turnover.

Does this attitude of our QB and HC worry anyone?
Yes it worries be a little. I'd rather have a coach and QB that are pissed that they didn't drop a 7 spot on their opponents noggin. I wish Kubiak would call some things differently...But whatever...They have more information than I do so they may see something that we don't...

I just don't like the "meh" attitude they have about it. It's almost like they are content with field goals and don't want to risk going for a TD when things get a little dicey.

I don't think Kubiak trusts his offense in those situations. Whatever. He thinks he needs to shelter them...And he would know best...
 

Ryan

THIS YEAR
The redzone stuff doesn't always bother me, but the third and long playcalling we have in other parts of the field does bother me. Sure if it's 3rd and 18 at the 3, by all means just call a draw and create more punting room. But half the time they design playcalls that don't get enough yards or whatever. Sometimes i'm all in favor of the ****** it attitude on 3rd and long, and just throw it deep. If it gets picked, it's about the same thing as a punt anyway.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
I remember. So that makes the record 1-2, not 1-1. Was just pointing out the loss you overlooked is all.
You are probably right...

People would also freak out if Kubiak kept settling for field goals and the ST didn't bail us out with scoring a TD...


Chester Pitts was just on the radio and he said that he did not like when Kubiak would get into the Red Zone and call plays like that. He said that they had done all the work to get down there and then all of a sudden they start calling plays differently.

He didn't say Kubiak was too conservative...he kind of danced around it. But he did say that he didn't like the way the plays were called in the Red Zone.
To be honest with you, Rey.

I've listened to Chester quite a bit; he doesn't have a real clue what the Texans are all about.

There are plenty of things he doesn't know.
He simply doesn't have enough time to watch the Texans; Some of the things he said. He's definitely NOT in the INs.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
So my question to you is what makes you think that Schaub's coaches & teammates don't think that he has that elite leadership you're speaking of? B/c you could argue his even-kiel attitude is the very definition of what an elite leader is supposed to be. It was the defining characteristic of tons of qb leaders over the years, namely Joe Montana of course.
They might. He may have it already. I don't know. If we go on to win the Super Bowl I'd have no choice but to believe he does.

Unless our defense becomes the Baltimore or Tampa Bay Super Bowl winning defenses, there's no way we'll win a Super Bowl if Matt isn't that kind of leader.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
People don't blitz on passing plays all that often in the redzone. It makes much more sense to sit back in a zone and force the QB to throw into a tight window. If he tries to run it, you have people looking at him.

QB's that can move well and put pressure on the defense with their legs and/or arm tend to have a lot of RED ZONE success.

And I disagree that arm strength doesn't have anything to do with it. IMO it has A LOT to do with it. You said it yourself...The windows are smaller. Arm strength becomes more apparent in shorter spaces. Guys with guns can zip balls into tight spaces on a regular basis. Having some mobility also helps because it makes defenders abandon their zones to stop the QB from running.

Schaub doesn't have either one of those attributes going for him and that's why he's never been a really good Red Zone QB.
It's a matter of philosophy & situation & tendencies imo. a d-coordinator might choose to blitz if he's trying to force the qb to throw it quickly allowing the db's to sit & drive on those short routes that they know the WR's are going to be running b/c the fear of getting beat deep is pretty much non-existent.

& ok, maybe zero percent was a bit of an exageration...maybe it has about 10% to do with it simply b/c even at the egde of the redzone a 20 yd. throw is nothing for any NFL qb to make & put on a rope...even for guys like schaub....As long as he can step into his throw. His arm strength issues really only rears it's head when he's throwing deep.
 

Rey

Guest
To be honest with you, Rey.

I've listened to Chester quite a bit; he doesn't have a real clue what the Texans are all about.

There are plenty of things he doesn't know.
He simply doesn't have enough time to watch the Texans; Some of the things he said. He's definitely NOT in the INs.
Which has nothing to do with his statements because he was talking about when he played for Kubiak.

He specifically said that when he played Kubiak would go to a different set of play calls for the Red Zone and he didn't like that. He was not commenting on anything they do now. He was recalling his own experiences.

Not sure what that has to do with his analysis.

And BTW, I listen to him a bunch and he is pretty good. He backs the team and their decisions a bunch, so I find it strange that you'd find his takes as ignorant.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
To be honest with you

I've listened to Chester quite a bit; he doesn't have a real clue what the Texans are all about.

There are plenty of things he doesn't know.
He simply doesn't have enough time to watch the Texans; Some of the things he said. He's definitely NOT in the INs.
'76 c'mon. He played for Kubiak, he's talking about his experience, especially on the situation Rey mentioned.

I think there is another issue here. Pitts doesn't like Kubiak. I don't remember all of the specifics, but I'm pretty sure he wanted to play LT. Kubiak tried him there, didn't like it & put him at LG.

I also don't think he was crazy about the ZBS. He was one of the strongest players on the team & before his leg injury, would have been able to start on any power O team in the league.

I personally think he holds back his opinion a lot. I think he likes the Texans, don't want to say anything negative (I mean he's got a job to keep) but he doesn't like Kubiak. If you were to push him, I bet he'd be able to tell us some stories.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Which has nothing to do with his statements because he was talking about when he played for Kubiak.

He specifically said that when he played Kubiak would go to a different set of play calls for the Red Zone and he didn't like that. He was not commenting on anything they do now. He was recalling his own experiences.

Not sure what that has to do with his analysis.

And BTW, I listen to him a bunch and he is pretty good. He backs the team and their decisions a bunch, so I find it strange that you'd find his takes as ignorant.
I can't say I remember the exact words, but last night he said something that I can say for sure, he's not IN.

I've always like Pitts as a person, and he wasn't a bad player either.
He just wasn't much into the cut blocking scheme.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
'76 c'mon. He played for Kubiak, he's talking about his experience, especially on the situation Rey mentioned.

I think there is another issue here. Pitts doesn't like Kubiak. I don't remember all of the specifics, but I'm pretty sure he wanted to play LT. Kubiak tried him there, didn't like it & put him at LG.

I also don't think he was crazy about the ZBS. He was one of the strongest players on the team & before his leg injury, would have been able to start on any power O team in the league.

I personally think he holds back his opinion a lot. I think he likes the Texans, don't want to say anything negative (I mean he's got a job to keep) but he doesn't like Kubiak. If you were to push him, I bet he'd be able to tell us some stories.
I wasn't talking about what he said today, because I didn't listen to it.
 
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