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Alex Smith vs. Colin Kaepernick
- Thread starter Fili
- Start date
drs23
Veteran
Is that a real question after seeing that game? I thought he was good coming out but was told his game would never translate to the pros. Kinda looks like he can handle it. Smith will probably work his way back into the line up but now Harbaugh knows what he has on the bench. Smith's day's could be numbered.
It would be stupid for Kubiak to change our QB at this point in the season. Tj Yates can come in for spot duty against Detroit, throw for 7 TDs & run for a couple on his own. & the smart play would still be to start Schaub against the Titans.
Now if Alex Smith is going to be out for three or four games & Kaepernick continues to put on a show as the team wins those four games, then yeah it becomes a little more tricky. Harbaugh has to really have control of his locker room regardless who he picks & puts up in front of his guys.
I remember there was a coach not too long ago who had a similar situation. He went with the wrong guy. It failed, imo, because he didn't have the locker room & they didn't buy into what he was selling.
& the QB he picked, though good, simply didn't add anything to the offense. He could make all the throws, he made good decisions, he wouldn't give the game away, but he didn't give them an advantage.
You'd think I was talking about Wade & Flutie, which fits this scenario to a T, but I'm talking about Del Rio.
Now if Alex Smith is going to be out for three or four games & Kaepernick continues to put on a show as the team wins those four games, then yeah it becomes a little more tricky. Harbaugh has to really have control of his locker room regardless who he picks & puts up in front of his guys.
I remember there was a coach not too long ago who had a similar situation. He went with the wrong guy. It failed, imo, because he didn't have the locker room & they didn't buy into what he was selling.
& the QB he picked, though good, simply didn't add anything to the offense. He could make all the throws, he made good decisions, he wouldn't give the game away, but he didn't give them an advantage.
You'd think I was talking about Wade & Flutie, which fits this scenario to a T, but I'm talking about Del Rio.
kiwitexansfan
Hall of Fame
It would be a big gamble to change his QB right now without Smith actually playing badly.
It might come down to which of the QBs has the locker rooms support. If the team want Kaepernick, you probably go with him.
It might come down to which of the QBs has the locker rooms support. If the team want Kaepernick, you probably go with him.
You would think. But, I think the coach has got to have the locker room. He's got to be the true leader, not just because he's the coach & they're paid to do what he says, but because there's going to be rough seas ahead.
If the coach isn't the leader, he's going to have dissension regardless which way he chooses. It might start as a few whispers in the locker room, or a few choice statements on the sideline.
That's why QB controversies turn into controversies, the team follows the QB & not the coach. Think Montana Young, better yet, remember how Fisher was allowed to slowly bring McNair along.
If you've got a true leader in a Head-Coah, you won't have a QB controversy. If he says Sanchez is the QB, end of story. The team buys it, doesn't matter what the media says.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You are way overstating your case. Chuck Knoll, Tom Landry and many other excellent coaches have had QB controversies. The Cowboys sent Bob Lilly to Landry to get him to start Staubach.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
We could add Gibbs, Parcells and Seifert in there as well. I would not have said that 12 years ago when I was still strung out on the star.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
As good as Alex Smith has played for the Niners, I don't think Harbaugh has that much faith in him. Remember, in the offseason, Harbaugh and the Niners were one of the teams courting Satan Manning.
But then they were like, "Oh, no Alex is our guy. We're behind him 100%."
And then they drafted Kaepernick.
But then they were like, "Oh, no Alex is our guy. We're behind him 100%."
And now Kaepernick comes in and kicks ass and Harbaugh is saying, "Wellllll... we're going to go with the guy that has the hot hand. And we've got two of them."
Yeah.
OK.
Personally, I stick with the vet but to me, it sounds like Harbaugh's wanting to have a reason to start Kaepernick.
But then they were like, "Oh, no Alex is our guy. We're behind him 100%."
And then they drafted Kaepernick.
But then they were like, "Oh, no Alex is our guy. We're behind him 100%."
And now Kaepernick comes in and kicks ass and Harbaugh is saying, "Wellllll... we're going to go with the guy that has the hot hand. And we've got two of them."
Yeah.
OK.
Personally, I stick with the vet but to me, it sounds like Harbaugh's wanting to have a reason to start Kaepernick.
Texan4Ever
All Pro
This is probably a horrible idea but, why not go with whoever hot right now? I would still keep Smith because he has had some spectacular games (playoffs for example) and also just in case Kapernick has a streak of bad games.
Fili
Rookie
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...reportedly-to-start-over-alex-smith-for-49ers
Kaepernick is starting.
Kaepernick is starting.
It sounds like no big deal for us. But it's a pretty dramatic change for any club. If there were an injury, it's ok. Everybody will understand, everybody will buy in. But for something like this, where Alex Smith is ready to play... who knows.
Something as small as an incomplete pass could snowball into a situation that will unravel the whole locker room. Imagine Kaepernick tries to correct Vernon Davis on a route. Vernon barks back that Colin should learn the play-book before he tries to correct him..... & it goes on & on & on... & they are one & done in the play-offs, if they make it.
Of course, he could be that spark that gets them all the way to the Super Bowl as well.. but I didn't think they were needing a spark.
And really, the main reason I would go with Alex if he were healthy, you can't go back.
If you sit Alex Smith, the QB that got you a play-off win last season (was it two? did they get to the NFC Championship game?) The guy that got you to 7-3, you can't go back.
If something happens to Kaepernick then you'll have Alex Smith out there "trying to prove" something he doesn't need to. He should just be allowed to play his game.
If something happens then, you can always go back to Kaepernick who is already trying to prove something.
If you sit Alex Smith, the QB that got you a play-off win last season (was it two? did they get to the NFC Championship game?) The guy that got you to 7-3, you can't go back.
If something happens to Kaepernick then you'll have Alex Smith out there "trying to prove" something he doesn't need to. He should just be allowed to play his game.
If something happens then, you can always go back to Kaepernick who is already trying to prove something.
Scooter
Funky
kaepernick again this week. i cant say i agree with this route, not during what could be a deep playoff run. kaepernick may end up being the better player, or may be better already, but why would you warm up a rookie for the playoffs (thus taking reps away from smith) when the odds of post season success are much higher with your veteran?
I agree with that. Mainly because Alex Smith was a big reason they got to the NFC Championship game last year.
I know inexperienced QBs like Rothlisbeger & Brady got it done. But Rothlisberger had more experience than Kaepernick does now.... Rothlisberger went to the AFC Championship the year before right? & Brady is a once in a lifetime thing.
Alex Smith would be the safe bet. But I don't get to see Kaepernick in practice everyday. However, most young QBs will struggle somewhere during the year & I'd hate for that to happen to my young QB during the play-offs when I have someone I think could get me there & win Like Alex Smith.
drs23
Veteran
Harbaugh QB'd for what, 15 seasons in the NFL? Seems to me he'd have an eye for what's going on during practice and all the drills that go on every day in reference to the QBs. I talked to football buds and beat the table for him when he was coming out and all I heard was the ol' "He came from a Spread O and will never translate to the Pros. I sprayed 'em because I thought he was miles and miles ahead of Locker, Goldielocks and Ryan Mallett who a bunch of folks were high on. I thought he was the best of the bunch followed by Christian Ponder.OK, but 50% at the plate ain't bad, eh?
Because Smith was never Harbaugh's guy. Harbaugh drafted Kaepernick to be his QB for the future. Once he threw Kaepernick into the fire and produced, the future is now. The Niners were never going to keep Smith in 2013, so why not give your future QB the reins? Smith has never been more than a game manager. Kaepernick has potential through the roof. Harbaugh is certainly making the right call
Scooter
Funky
i completely understand the sentiment. kaepernick is likely MUCH more talented and is who harbaugh picked, but to me it seems unnecessarily rushed. talent is one thing, but in the playoffs experience is a much more critical factor IMO. the future is not now ... NOW is now. you have a great running game, an elite defense and a veteran quarterback who's excelling in your system with very few turnovers ... and you'd trust a rookie quarterback instead?
ask wade phillips who the 49'ers should start ... i bet he'd love to face a rookie qb in the postseason.
ask wade phillips who the 49'ers should start ... i bet he'd love to face a rookie qb in the postseason.
I think people forget how close the 49ers are to a Championship. That team got much closer than the Texans did & they're using the same formula. Alex Smith isn't "Matt Schaub" but Kaepernick isn't Tom Brady either.
Alex has been playing well. The 49ers are exactly where they are supposed to be. They are on track to get to the Super Bowl.
Throw Kaepernick in there's no telling how that will alter their course. For the better..... maybe. Throwing in an extra monkey wrench.... most likely.
After the season, I'd go Kaepernick all the way. Even if they win the Super Bowl (which they won't, because we will) if Kaepernick is "Harbaugh's guy"
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Agree with this.
I think Kaepernick is a better QB, gives them more flexibility and he can change a game. My issue is that no one has really game planned for him yet. Once that happens and he gets into some hostile playoff games, how is he going to react?Your putting your SB talented team on the line with a rookie right now?Alex Smith isn't special but he has been in big games and was 2 muffed punt returns away from a SB.
Absolutely, he was lights out in the play-offs. Had it not been for his excellent play, they would not have been in the NFC Championship game.
Specnatz
Hall of Fame
Wow..... I'd rather they have tattoos than those porn-style mustaches.
I'm not a big fan of tattoos. Don't have any. But I don't have a problem with them... well, I wouldn't care for a hoe-badge on my significant other, but other than that...
What I really don't like though, are guages. Can't stand them.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
If I'm Alex Smith I say all the right things, don't make this into any more of a distraction than it has to be, and as soon as the season is over I tell the GM of the 49ers that I'm out of there and he can trade me or release me but I'm not staying. Smith can start in this league and succeed. He has been in my opinion more a victim of a revolving door of suck than anything and the last couple of years have demonstrated that he can play and play at a high level.
Don't do anything to mess up your trade value or give anyone the impression that you're not a team player but get the hell out of there as soon as the 2012 campaign is over.
Don't do anything to mess up your trade value or give anyone the impression that you're not a team player but get the hell out of there as soon as the 2012 campaign is over.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Barring a major injury to Kaepernick, something tells me Trent Baalke (San Fran GM) would be just fine with that - in fact he'll probably beat Smith to it.
The contract Smith signed in March was structured intentionally to function as a one year contract if need be. The only guarantee left is $1 Million of his 2013 salary, and there will be no unamortized bonus if he's traded or let go this off season.
Smith is scheduled to make $8.5 Million next year (including a $1 Million roster bonus due in August). That's way too much to spend on a backup QB, and if he's on the opening day 2013 roster, every dime of that will be guaranteed.
Translation: He gone!
Ok... does anyone see the parallels between what's going on in San Francisco & the QB debates we have here on TTalk?
Alex Smith is a far cry from Matt Schaub, but they are similar in that people will say, "He's not Tom Brady, but you can win a Super Bowl with him."
Kaepernick, nobody really knows who this guy is but Haurbaugh & Kaepernick. We'll see. But it's clear, that his upside appears to be higher. He's dynamic. He's flashy.
I haven't watched any San Francisco games this year with Smith, but my question is... are they running the same offense? Are they running the same plays & Kaepernick is simply making different decisions than what Alex would make in those same situations? Was Alex just playing it safe & Kaepernick making the most of his opportunities?
Alex Smith is a far cry from Matt Schaub, but they are similar in that people will say, "He's not Tom Brady, but you can win a Super Bowl with him."
Kaepernick, nobody really knows who this guy is but Haurbaugh & Kaepernick. We'll see. But it's clear, that his upside appears to be higher. He's dynamic. He's flashy.
I haven't watched any San Francisco games this year with Smith, but my question is... are they running the same offense? Are they running the same plays & Kaepernick is simply making different decisions than what Alex would make in those same situations? Was Alex just playing it safe & Kaepernick making the most of his opportunities?
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I don't know if the offense if functioning the same with Kaepernick at QB, and I do recognize certain similarities between Smith and Schaub, but absolutely nothing beyond that.
The Forty-Niners and Harbaugh traded up to draft Kaepernick early in the second round (fourth pick), and as such, he was the assumed starter of the future the second he was drafted. Yates is a 5th round pick who may or may not have a long term future with the Texans, and even at that, he's far surpassed the expectations anybody had for him on draft day. Smith was a holdover from the regime prior to Harbaugh. Schaub is a QB that Kubiak personally vetted and paid a fairly high price to obtain.
Smith and Schaub are an apples to better apples comparison. Kapernick and Yates (or Keenum, or any QB the Texans are likely to obtain in the near future) are apples to moon rocks.
SheTexan
Hall of Fame
Being a HUGE Niner fan, I have been paying a lot of attention to this mess, and I agree with you on your assessment. Hardball is making a mistake by starting Kaep. Never been a huge A. Smith fan, but, he's gotten them this far and should be allowed to keep his job. JMO! Really kinda p*ssed off at the Niners right now! I guess we'll see how the boy does. I wish them well, except when they play us!
No, no, no.no... I'm not trying to make an apples to apples comparison between Kaepernick & Yates, or Keenum. Not even between Matt & Alex. Just acknowledging parallels between the two situations.
Alex Smith is not an elite QB, but he can get that team to & win a Super Bowl. Matt can do the same here. This is largely due to the fact that both teams have strong defenses & strong running games. Not to say that Schaub is just a game manager, but Alex Smith was a bit more than just a game manager last year when he lead his team to a play-off win on the road @ the Super Dome.
Still, Harbaugh wanted more, wanted an upgrade at that position.
Kubiak obviously does not.
Now, I'm not saying this is a good decision by either Harbaugh or Kubiak. Only different. I think there are some here who believe the "upgrade the QB" crowd are delirious, that the line of thinking simply doesn't make sense. I'm just saying it made sense to Harbaugh.
I've already acknowledged the difference between Schaub & Smith. Yeah, Kubiak went after Schaub to be our starter. Alex just happened to be there. Matt's stats probably blows Alex's out of the water. But, Smith has done something Schaub hasn't & that's win two play-off games & play for a conference Championship (& played quite well).
Still Harbaugh is "ready" to move on.
I think it's a big mistake. I know Kaepernick was brought in to be the future, but Smith has that important play-off experience. I would think that would trump Kaepernick's "future-of-the-franchise" status.
I would continue to play Smith & throw Kaepernick in the way he had been. Alex got them too close to the Super Bowl, they're playing too well this year, to be changing out QBs now.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Where I believe we see things differently is that you made the comment "Still, Harbaugh wanted more, wanted an upgrade at that position". That's where I disagree - Harbaugh didn't want an upgrade to the 2012 Alex Smith, he wanted an upgrade to the 2005-2010 Alex Smith, and that Alex Smith didn't compare at all to Schaub. One statistic that while admittedly not a "tell the whole story" type of deal is that at the time Harbaugh took over in San Fran, Smith's highest QB rating was 82.1. Even including 2011 & 2012, his career QB rating is still under 80. Since being with the Texans, Schaub's had one season where his rating was under 90, and that was his first season at 87.2.
So fast forward to 2012 - Harbaugh didn't have to go out and find what he considered an upgrade, he already had it. I don't know that Kaepernick over Smith is the right choice, although admittedly I think there's a better chance of it than some folks do, but I just don't see it on the whole as similar to what we've got going on with the Texans.
There are no QB debates here. The only question prior to the season was, "Will Schaub's foot be healed?". That's been answered. Well enough to give Matt an extension, in the collective mind of McNair and Smithiak. No parallels except both teams are driving towards the playoffs.
NitroGSXR
Super Sic #58
That link also has a story on why the Texans are underappreciated. If you guessed the reason to be Schaub's receding hairline, you would be right.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/ktlincoln/the-thrilling-texans-are-underappreciated-because
ajohnson80
Waterboy
kap not playin to well only put up 17 last game and 13 this one...would be awesome if they tie again lol
Showtime100
Got JJ?
Yeah..lol. They are looking at another tie square in the face.
ajohnson80
Waterboy
so close..nice win for the Rams. Will people want Alex back now?
TD
Super Bowl Mascot
21 if you count the 8 he scored for the Rams.
Does it matter?
That was exactly the reason Harbaugh played Kaepernick. He needs to get that stuff out of his system before the season starts. Everybody screws up. Whether it was Alex Smith or Kaepernick, somewhere along the way they're going to screw up.
Kaepernick answered the question & was able to shrug it off. They didn't win the game. Most likely because of his two blunders. But, when they lose a game now, they can come back & play again next week.
Don't work that way for the play-offs & Harbaugh knows that.
Right now, we're talking about the play-offs. We don't want to play Manning one week & Brady the next. Alex Smith does not get that kind of respect. Kaepernick won't either, but I guarantee there will be a couple of teams saying, "Damn, I wish he'd play Alex." He's easier to plan for.
I didn't/don't agree with Harbaugh's decision, that's not the way I would have done it. But I think I understand why he's doing it. Alex got hurt, Kaep came in, played well. The genie is out of the bottle, can't put it back in.
I don't think so. They're going to win some, they're going to lose some. He knows that. The important thing is that Kaepernick can shake it off & continue to lead his team.
In the locker room, the team is going to be thinking about that & it might cause some friction, might cause some division. Kaepernick needs to be a leader & keep the team.
The important thing now, is that Kap has got to own it all week & reassure his team-mates that he's going to make up for it. Then he's got to back it up.
But this is probably the best thing that could happen for Harbaugh. That it happens now, & not in January.
The problem is: they were in a serious win now position with a guy that has been in that situation before and you know what he will give you.
Kaepernick seems to be the better QB - but he is also a wildcard. On one night he will be fantastic, on the next he will struggle. He is basically a rookie out there.
I guess the move was inevitable - but it came at a pretty bad time. Finish the season with Smith, then let them battle it out next preseason and do the switch there - not in the middle of the season you want to win a superbowl in while your veteran QB is having his best year yet.
Kaepernick seems to be the better QB - but he is also a wildcard. On one night he will be fantastic, on the next he will struggle. He is basically a rookie out there.
I guess the move was inevitable - but it came at a pretty bad time. Finish the season with Smith, then let them battle it out next preseason and do the switch there - not in the middle of the season you want to win a superbowl in while your veteran QB is having his best year yet.
I agree. That's exactly the way I would go about it. But like I said, we are where we are now & Harbaugh made the decision he thought was best.
What happened with Alex Smith last year, going to NO & beating Brees in shootout, then taking the game to the Giants. If you had to bet money, would you put it on Alex to do it again in 2012?
I wouldn't. If your QB has to win a game in the play-offs, what are the odds that Alex Smith can do it again? I personally think it is more likely that Kaepernick can. Based on what I saw & the decision that Harbaugh made.
I don't think there is a right decision here, or a wrong decision. I would take the safe road & go with Smith. Harbaugh is putting his money where his mouth is. We'll see how it plays out.
GP
Go Texans!
It's the Russell Wilson syndrome.
Plays like a world beater when he's under everyone's radar, then when the games get real AND teams start preparing for you...the shine comes off the star.
I knew he'd struggle once the job was his. Once it sets in, I think those types of wildcard QBs don't handle it well. There's a rush of adrenaline because the guy can sense he's about to win the job...then he wins the job, and the moment is gone. Where do you go from there? You have more to lose than to gain, at that point, because now YOU are under the microscope. I think the pressure gets to them.
In fairness to Russell Wilson, though, he's done a fairly decent job this year.
Harbaugh messed up that team's chemistry, IMO. He thought he could make a radical move like this, and I think he's lost the locker room a little. This is where Kubiak is the better coach of the two: Kubiak is so loyal, that guys know they can have a bad performance...shake it off...and they get a chance to make good on their coach's faith in them. Harbaugh pulled a bit of a punk move. So his true colors are coming out: You're only as good as I say you are, and nobody is safe. Not even the guy who got us to the NFCS game last year.
Should have went with A.S. the rest of the way, IMO.
Plays like a world beater when he's under everyone's radar, then when the games get real AND teams start preparing for you...the shine comes off the star.
I knew he'd struggle once the job was his. Once it sets in, I think those types of wildcard QBs don't handle it well. There's a rush of adrenaline because the guy can sense he's about to win the job...then he wins the job, and the moment is gone. Where do you go from there? You have more to lose than to gain, at that point, because now YOU are under the microscope. I think the pressure gets to them.
In fairness to Russell Wilson, though, he's done a fairly decent job this year.
Harbaugh messed up that team's chemistry, IMO. He thought he could make a radical move like this, and I think he's lost the locker room a little. This is where Kubiak is the better coach of the two: Kubiak is so loyal, that guys know they can have a bad performance...shake it off...and they get a chance to make good on their coach's faith in them. Harbaugh pulled a bit of a punk move. So his true colors are coming out: You're only as good as I say you are, and nobody is safe. Not even the guy who got us to the NFCS game last year.
Should have went with A.S. the rest of the way, IMO.
ajohnson80
Waterboy
Harbaugh made a big mistake here imo. You don't take a chance on a young unproven qb in the middle of a playoff race. They cost you games. On a crap team like the Eagles you bench Vick and see what the guy has. I have a feeling Kap is done for the season barring injury from Alex. I'm not sure Alex will play as well knowing his days are basically numbered now. This move might have cost the 49ers a chance at the superbowl because every other aspect of that team is elite.
He didn't have a choice. Alex Smith got a concussion. It took some time before Alex could get healthy, Kaepernick started in the mean time. This was the first time Kaepernick started when Alex was healthy.
As far as the play-off race goes, the Seahawks are their only competition. It's a close race, but it's the Seahawks.
ajohnson80
Waterboy
He was cleared to play game before last and the last game so Harbaugh definitely made a choice. Every game counts when it comes to playoff positioning so I don't get your logic there. Would you say the same if you were a 49er fan? I wouldn't overlook the Seahawks who have one of the best secondary's in the league. They still have to play @ pats @ seahawks and arizona who is no slouch defensively. Kap's due to start throwin some picks against these good secondary's, and he probably will have some more bad games if he plays out the season. I do see Kap's upside and think he has the potential to be the future there, but hes clearly got some developing left to even reach Alex Smith's level.
I wouldn't feel any sense of loyalty if I was in that locker room.
I would have stayed with Alex. But I'm not in the locker room. I don't know if Alex was the leader because he was the QB, like Carr, or if he was the leader.
But watching Kaepernick yesterday, it clicked. That's why he did it, to get that stuff out of the way. To see how he handles it this week, to see if it's going to affect him next week.
You saw Alex Smith last year, what he had to do to get that team to the NFC Championship game. What do you think are the odds that he can do that again?
Other than the Jets & the Cardinals, who is going to be rushing to sign Alex Smith? After just 3 games, I can think of three that would jump on the possibility of acquiring Colin Kaepernick.
ajohnson80
Waterboy
I agree Kaepernick is the better talent. Defenses will start scheming for him now, and I don't think his stats or performance warrant a benching of Alex. Maybe Alex can't repeat his playoff run from last year, but he earned the chance. With him at the helm I feel they are legit superbowl contenders. With Kaepernick it is unknown how he will react to pressure or defenses that scheme to stop him. Its just a huge unnecessary gamble
I feel the chances are better with Alex. That team is more built around defense and running. Alex is good for that because he takes whats there and rarely turns it over.
Do you want a wildcard that could win or lose the game for you?
That team should have been in the superbowl last year. Its not Alex's fault they fumbled.