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Reggie bush?

uhcougar08

SHSUKATS08
Whats wrong with selecting Bush in the first round, select a tackle in second to play RT, because Pitts is the future LT, and selecting a OC and OG with our 3rd rounders, and go for the BPA at CB, TE, OLB, DT the rest of the draft?
 

Coach C.

Veteran
There is nothing wrong with it if it is going to be best for the team. It will be interesting to see if that is how it actually works out.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Just don't see it. What position is Bush going to play? Is he magically going to become an every down back in the NFL after not doing it in college? He may be the best KR/PR and slot WR ever, but is that worth #1 or #2? Fantastic athlete--just don't see where he fits for that kind of projected cap money.
 

tulexan

Hall of Fame
We have more than enough running backs. We have a terrible offensive line. Offensive line is clearly our biggest need and when you can get a LT who is in the same conversation as Walter Jones or Orlando Pace, you don't pass him up. All great running backs and quarterbacks need to have a good offensive line. Right now we have a pathetic offensive line.
 

tulexan

Hall of Fame
infantrycak said:
Just don't see it. What position is Bush going to play? Is he magically going to become an every down back in the NFL after not doing it in college? He may be the best KR/PR and slot WR ever, but is that worth #1 or #2? Fantastic athlete--just don't see where he fits for that kind of projected cap money.

Maurice Drew is a better PR.
 

uhcougar08

SHSUKATS08
Do yall honestly believe DD is a true running back or is he a system back?
We have one playmaker on our team and he has been hurt for a few games, why cant we have another?
DD is not a playmaker and Bush is, I think that is what we need.
Is DD is so dog gone special, why did we draft a RB in the third round, and isnt DD injury prone just a little bit?
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
uhcougar08 said:
Do yall honestly believe DD is a true running back or is he a system back?
You are joking right?--what system is that--we will let you get hit in the back field every other time and let you scratch out a 3.9 yd average up the middle. Great system--and by the way one Bush has never sniffed a carry in.

We have one playmaker on our team and he has been hurt for a few games, why cant we have another?
I don't mind a playmaker or another starting RB. I would love to have had Steven Jackson for instance, but I don't see where Bush fits. He doesn't replace DD because he can't run inside the tackles, even if he is more durable, more explosive, yada yada. You have to have a RB who can consistantly run up the gut for 3 yds. Has Bush every even tried that?
 

BuffSoldier

Veteran
uhcougar08 said:
Do yall honestly believe DD is a true running back or is he a system back?
We have one playmaker on our team and he has been hurt for a few games, why cant we have another?
DD is not a playmaker and Bush is, I think that is what we need.
Is DD is so dog gone special, why did we draft a RB in the third round, and isnt DD injury prone just a little bit?
Just because you want Bush, you dont have to talk about DD. I personally dont believe that its a smart pick. First of all a 3rd round offensive lineman wont start his first year, and maybe never, look at Wand. Plus, why would you place a OG at OT just to get an extra RB. Pitts is better at OG, and what people dont understand is that while Bush may be the most exciting player in the draft, Ferguson just may be the best player overall. You can always find skill position players, hey in a few years, Mike Hart, Peterson, and some other backs will come out, but an OT the caliber of Ferguson wont come out again for a while.
 

uhcougar08

SHSUKATS08
You didnt answer my main question, If DD is so good, why did we draft Morency with our 2nd pick in last years draft?
 

Coach C.

Veteran
DD is a special back in the mold of Tiki Barber with maybe less speed and more power. In a system on a different team he would likely put up better numbers where he was not the focus all the time. So honestly yes I think DD is a true running back. We have a couple of playmakers, but we do not have near the same number as the upper echelon teams.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
uhcougar08 said:
You didnt answer my main question, If DD is so good, why did we draft Morency with our 2nd pick in last years draft?
Ummm, because DD gets dinged when run too often, because we wanted consistant (same style) depth, because Morency was BPA, because Casserly has anal cranial insertion, etc....do I need more?
 

uhcougar08

SHSUKATS08
Coach C. said:
DD is a special back in the mold of Tiki Barber with maybe less speed and more power. In a system on a different team he would likely put up better numbers where he was not the focus all the time. So honestly yes I think DD is a true running back. We have a couple of playmakers, but we do not have near the same number as the upper echelon teams.
Thank You, I just wanted an opionion, not start a war. Im not saying DD is terrible, but with our zone blocking, is he a system back in that scenario. I am refering the Denver Broncos and the numerous high yardage backs they have produced from zone blocking.

What is wrong with Bush as like an LT type, the man has serious break away speed, something none of our RB's have.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
uhcougar08 said:
Thank You, I just wanted an opionion, not start a war. Im not saying DD is terrible, but with our zone blocking, is he a system back in that scenario. I am refering the Denver Broncos and the numerous high yardage backs they have produced from zone blocking.

What is wrong with Bush as like an LT type, the man has serious break away speed, something none of our RB's have.
If we had anything in common with the Broncos other than the basic scheme you would have a valid point. We do not however. The line is a very eratic zone blocking line--some huge holes for us and some huge holes for the D to get the RB behind the LOS. DD has made a lot out of a little.

If I saw Bush as LT or Sanders I would have no problem taking him in the top 5, but it just isn't there IMO. He simply doesn't get the tough, close-in yards a true RB needs to get through either speed, power, vision, something--they all have a way of getting through the tight traffic. Bush hasn't demonstrated that--elite open field runner, but give me 3 when I need 2 he isn't.
 

Coach C.

Veteran
I understood where you were going that is why I did not attack you. I dont think Bush is an LT type. He is quite a bit smaller than LT and he is not a 30 carry back. He can handle the ball 20 times a game and will likely be something around Warrick Dunn. Which is a terrific back and a gamebreaker, but I doubt he will get the ball 30+ times.
 

BuffSoldier

Veteran
uhcougar08 said:
Thank You, I just wanted an opionion, not start a war. Im not saying DD is terrible, but with our zone blocking, is he a system back in that scenario. I am refering the Denver Broncos and the numerous high yardage backs they have produced from zone blocking.

What is wrong with Bush as like an LT type, the man has serious break away speed, something none of our RB's have.
You can never compare the zone blocking scheme of denver to the scheme that the Texans run. If DD ran behind that o-line then he would be one of the top rushers IMO.
 

uhcougar08

SHSUKATS08
I threw Bush in here for discussion, but I personally want D'Brickashaw Ferguson to be our RT next season, and I will be completely satisfied. CC ruined my dream of having Derrick Johnson as our OLB last year, and I personally hate the Longhorns. I just dont ever see passing up on a playmaker, but yes I would be tickled pink to have a OT as our first pick.
 

Coach C.

Veteran
My question to you is do you honestly think that D'Brick will do well at RT. He is not a strong run blocker and he has a lack of size. At the RT spot he would be matched up against the larger DEs in the league. I like Ferguson, but I like Winston better just because he has more versatility and pretty much the same skill. Some say Ferguson is like Walter Jones and Winston is like Jordan Gross. I dont feel that Ferguson is like Walter Jones but similar in athleticism, but he is alot like a good Alex Barron but slower straight line speed which does not matter.
 

tulexan

Hall of Fame
Bush is not LT. Everyone has to get that out of their heads. He is nowhere near the blocker that LT is. Remember, LT played 1 or 2 years as a FB at TCU. Like Coach C. said, Bush will be like a Warrick Dunn or Brian Westbrook type of player. Both are great players, but not worth a #1 overall pick. If we were going to add another back to our team I'd like a big back like a TJ Duckett or Steven Jackson who can just run over people

Our offense will be so much better with a good offensive line. We would finally be able to open up our offense and not have to always have a max protect scheme in place.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Reggie Bush reminds me of Reggie Bush :rofl:

break away speed unmatched.

ideal size 205 & 6 ft. tall.

clean bill of health.

makes plays in critical situations.

plays & wins championships.

So then, why would the Texans take him with the 1st pick :confused: don't need him do we? over-rated, over-hyped & over-exposed? I believe somewhere there is a logical explanation :goodnight
 

MorKnolle

All Pro
BuffSoldier said:
Just because you want Bush, you dont have to talk about DD. I personally dont believe that its a smart pick. First of all a 3rd round offensive lineman wont start his first year, and maybe never, look at Wand. Plus, why would you place a OG at OT just to get an extra RB. Pitts is better at OG, and what people dont understand is that while Bush may be the most exciting player in the draft, Ferguson just may be the best player overall. You can always find skill position players, hey in a few years, Mike Hart, Peterson, and some other backs will come out, but an OT the caliber of Ferguson wont come out again for a while.
First of all I'd like to agree that DD is a solid RB and if we did draft Bush I would put him at WR not RB. I personally would like to see us get either Winston or Ferguson (preferably Winston) with around the 5-8 pick (trade down if we have a higher pick). These two look like they will be elite OL in the NFL, and as you said many times 3rd rounders don't start, but at the same time 6th rounders sometimes start and play very well. Sometimes drafting OL is a toss up whether they turn into something special or not, but I think a lot of that depends on coaching development and the system they run. I would also like to point out that Chester Pitts is not better at OG than OT. If we would leave him at OT I think he could easily be one of the better OT in the league. He has some quickness and good feet and hands but is not a huge, mauling-type OG and he needs to be on the outside where he uses his quickness more. He basically shut Dwight Freeney down twice this year, especially the second game last week where he was alone on Freeney most of the game.
 

Coach C.

Veteran
Now that is the meat. Buffsoldier you might want to post some type of rebuttal to this cause right now your whole argument just got blown out of the water.
 

College Texan

Waterboy
Bush is nothing more than a great slot WR. I don't see him lined up all the way out and I don't see him being a tough RB to tackle up the middle. Make it clear that not everyone in college football is not NFL calibre and USC has alot of NFL calibre players, so you can see why Reggie looks so good on TV and making COLLEGE defenses miss. The NFL is a different story. I agree that a skill position player is easy to find and a lineman is about the hardest thing to find. When you see talent that will revolutionize the game then that is hard to pass up, look at the best back in the league and where he went to college, TCU. SO just because he gets the publicity from being on a great team doesn't mean he is the hard to miss talent.
 

BuffSoldier

Veteran
Coach C. said:
Now that is the meat. Buffsoldier you might want to post some type of rebuttal to this cause right now your whole argument just got blown out of the water.
Dont need a rebuttal to him, if he thinks that Pitts is a better LT than LG, then let him think that, and if he thinks that Winston is a more solid pick than Ferguson, oh well. But as for me, you know where I stand, Pitts at OG, and Ferguson at LT. Go get DF thats what I say.
 
R

real

Guest
why does everyone think bush will just play reciever, he's not tiny...he's just as big and bigger than some runnigbacks in the leauge right now....
 
R

real

Guest
xtruroyaltyx said:
why does everyone think bush will just play reciever, he's not tiny...he's just as big and bigger than some runnigbacks in the leauge right now....
and another thing everyone is saying DD is such a solid running back....this guy is injured every year...
 

texplayer2

Waterboy
infantrycak said:
I don't see where Bush fits. He doesn't replace DD because he can't run inside the tackles, even if he is more durable, more explosive, yada yada. You have to have a RB who can consistantly run up the gut for 3 yds. Has Bush every even tried that?
I hope the philosphy of our new coach does not involve 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Put Bush in motion, and take some pressure off DD and Carr, and maybe it could be more like 5-6 yards a carry for DD. We could use more speed and weapons.
 

tulexan

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
why does everyone think bush will just play reciever, he's not tiny...he's just as big and bigger than some runnigbacks in the leauge right now....
Heightwise he may be as big as most everydown back in the league, but he is much lighter for his size. There are everydown backs who are as heavy, but they are shorter and more compact. Someone his height should be around 220 or 225. He is listed at 200, which means he is probably 190.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
why does everyone think bush will just play reciever, he's not tiny...he's just as big and bigger than some runnigbacks in the leauge right now....
It isn't so much his size IMO as it is how he runs. He is a fantastic open field guy, but I just don't believe it is smart to have a RB who can't run between the tackles and having a $9 mil a year player to take pressure off AJ and DD doesn't seem like good cap management IMO.

While size is not so much the major issue, Bush's build is not prototypical. While there are 6' RB's and RB's who are 200 lbs or not far from it, there aren't many who are both. DD has a classic build now for RB's shared with guys such as LT and Holmes--5' 9" (so significantly shorter--lower center of gravity, shorter legged) and 220 lbs (so signficanly heavier in a shorter package). To have the same proportionate build as those guys, Bush would need to be 6' and 230 ish.
 

TheOgre

All Pro
I see Bush in the same mold as Brian Westbrook. Do you notice the issues that Philly has right now establishing the run with Westbrook as it primary back? Do we want to use a top 3 pick on someone that is a 10-15 carry guy and a special teamer?

I get the feeling that people don't like the idea of a LT with the 1st pick. It is the single most difficult position to fill on a team. If you look around the league, approximately half of the starting LT's are 1st rounders. Many of those guys were in fact top 10 selections. There are very few non-1st rounders that are any more than adequate at the position. It isn't a flashy position, but it is the single biggest need for this team long-term.

Oh Pitts is doing well? You want to pass on a LT because of Pitts? I personally don't think Pitts is anything more than an adequate LT. I think he could excel as a RT though. So why have a mediocre LT and RT when you can have two stud OT's?
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
TheOgre said:
I get the feeling that people don't like the idea of a LT with the 1st pick. It is the single most difficult position to fill on a team. If you look around the league, approximately half of the starting LT's are 1st rounders. Many of those guys were in fact top 10 selections. There are very few non-1st rounders that are any more than adequate at the position. It isn't a flashy position, but it is the single biggest need for this team long-term.
I certainly have no problem with the Texans using a 1st round pick on a LT. I do have a problem every year with the attitude that the #1 need must be filled with the #1 player at that position. IF, the Texans have concerns about D'Brick or like Winston or someone else's style better for the system they are going to run or view the talent drop off as not significant then I would expect them to do the smart thing and try to get value for moving from #1 to #7 or #3 to #10 to get their guy or a guy they feel has equal value, manage the cap and add a pick or picks to help fill other holes.
 

Vinny

shiny happy fan
The Bengals were raked over the coals for "blowing" their top 10 pick on Levi Jones a few years back but it was one of the key moves they made to solidify their line and they haven't looked back since then and have not regressed what so ever. He anchors a line that is ready to compete in the playoffs for years to come now. If a LT grades high enough, I'm all for it in the top 5. If not, I'd rather see us take a player that grades higher and take a second round Tackle or trade down to around pick 10 and take a Tackle. Bottom line is I want value for the pick and not a need pick that is forced. Guys like Leonard Davis and Mike Williams were need picks that I bet the Cardinals and Bills wish they had to do over.

I have my reservations on Bush as well...mostly for the reason's Infantrycak has posted. He is within 16 carries and 100 yards of LenDale White and White runs between the tackles. Open field running is a fantastic skill but you just don't see near as many long runs in the NFL since the players are faster at every single position. Breaking tackles is a much more valued skill set in the Pros.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
Reggie Bush does not = Brian Westbrook, if you mean stylisticlty then there are similarities but Bush does everything better. I'm not sure if he's been nursing a hamstring injury or USC is just saving him for UT, but if Pete Carrol turns him loose & he is healthy he can take over a game ala Vince Young.

I agree with taking the LT with the 1st pick however it just makes me nervous which one Casserly thinks is the better prospect :rolleyes:

With Pitts we know what we have- a serviceable LT, thats a start. why did it take 4 years to figure this out? We also recently re-signed Chester so this gives us some stablity there, plus for the LT position excellent value and some cap room to sign a top LT via the draft. I would prefeer leaving him for the time being @ LT and starting the #1 pick (Winston:confused: ) at RT. Then drafting Davin Joseph the best guard in the draft to take Pitts position at LG.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
As one last comment on having the flexibility I think Vinny and I are talking about, consider Khalif Barnes from last year. He was mentioned some as a 1st round prospect, but went with the 20th pick of the 2nd round last year. In 5 starts at LT this year he has had 2 penalties and .5 sacks. Especially in a draft that is supposed to be incredible at LT, the Texans should at least consider their options on LT's other than the top 1.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
infantrycak said:
As one last comment on having the flexibility I think Vinny and I are talking about, consider Khalif Barnes from last year. He was mentioned some as a 1st round prospect, but went with the 20th pick of the 2nd round last year. In 5 starts at LT this year he has had 2 penalties and .5 sacks. Especially in a draft that is supposed to be incredible at LT, the Texans should at least consider their options on LT's other than the top 1.
I agree. if the Texans had not traded away their 2nd pick they could have drafted Khalif Barnes:brickwall look at the difference in protection for Leftwich this year, last year he was getting killed this year he has time to stand in the pocket and hit his rookie WR Matt Jones.
 

Blake

MMQB
infantrycak said:
As one last comment on having the flexibility I think Vinny and I are talking about, consider Khalif Barnes from last year. He was mentioned some as a 1st round prospect, but went with the 20th pick of the 2nd round last year. In 5 starts at LT this year he has had 2 penalties and .5 sacks. Especially in a draft that is supposed to be incredible at LT, the Texans should at least consider their options on LT's other than the top 1.
Do you have any players in mind for the first rounder, if we choose to wait till the 2nd to try and get Scott, or another LT prospect?

For some reason I dont like the Idea of Matt or Bush from USC. Maybe a trade down and pick up a defender?
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
THE NFL DRAFT said:
Do you have any players in mind for the first rounder, if we choose to wait till the 2nd to try and get Scott, or another LT prospect?

For some reason I dont like the Idea of Matt or Bush from USC. Maybe a trade down and pick up a defender?
Well it would all be rank speculation at this point depending on the final draft order, coach and D system next year, Pennington's prognosis, Culpepper's prognosis, what calls the GM receives (a 3rd to move down 2 spots vs. a 1st and 2nd to move down 5 spots), etc. Guys who seem like they could be value depending on where the Texans land and could help the team include--D'Brick, Winston, Hawk, Jimmy Williams, Kiwanuka, Marcedes Lewis, Ngata. Basically I try not to get caught up in a particular need order for things and want to see flexibility to maximize upgrading talent.
 
R

real

Guest
None of you who are saying take D'brick or winston with the first pick could have seen them play. These guys arent worthy of the first overall pick. The reason I say we take reggie bush is because playmakers of his caliber dont come around everyday...the only thing that is acceptable other than picking Bush with the first overall pick is trading down and picking up two first rounders...It the texans arent doing one of the two then they have made a mistake
 
I know Winston was getting abused by FSU...on the flip side..who wasn't getting abused on that Miami o-line by those Seminoles?

About El Presidente...I would like to have him...reason...because of Dominick. If DD gets banged up and can't go a few games, we can put Bush at RB....and ya'll know Reggie going to be HELLBENT on proving people wrong. Personally, I think he CAN carry the ball 20+ times...reason he doesnt do it @ USC, is really because he doesn't have to, thanks to one LenDale White. Whoever drafts Bush will get a guy who plays in the slot AND who gets about 10-15 maybe 20 carries a week.

It really depends on that team's RBs and their offense.
 
R

real

Guest
ThaShark316 said:
I know Winston was getting abused by FSU...on the flip side..who wasn't getting abused on that Miami o-line by those Seminoles?

About El Presidente...I would like to have him...reason...because of Dominick. If DD gets banged up and can't go a few games, we can put Bush at RB....and ya'll know Reggie going to be HELLBENT on proving people wrong. Personally, I think he CAN carry the ball 20+ times...reason he doesnt do it @ USC, is really because he doesn't have to, thanks to one LenDale White. Whoever drafts Bush will get a guy who plays in the slot AND who gets about 10-15 maybe 20 carries a week.

It really depends on that team's RBs and their offense.
Thank you finnally someone who sees the light............and it's not if but when DD gets banged up...hes been banged up every year
 

MorKnolle

All Pro
The only reason Davis got hurt this year is because the coaches were apparently trying to give him 30-35 touches a game and wore him down. Almost every RB in the league who got the ball that much has had some kind of nagging injuries from it, look what happened to Cadillac after their fourth game. I would have thought the whole point of drafting Morency and having Wells would be to give Davis a break every 3-5 plays so this kind of thing wouldn't happen.
 

TheOgre

All Pro
I wouldn't have a problem with the Texans trading down and grabbing the 2nd or 3rd OT and getting another high pick to use on a pass-rusher or whatever. I would like them to get the best value they can too. I don't want us to take Ferguson if he grades out much lower than the alternatives.

However, I do think we have to take an OT very early (in all likelihood sometime in the 1st) in THIS draft. It is the only key position on the team that we haven't tried to address through the draft, but more importantly, it is considered to be one of the better 1st round crops in a while.

I'd love to see us trade down and get a couple of 1st round selections. Then we can grab one of those top few OT's and still add value somewhere else.
 
R

real

Guest
The problem with Davis is..he isnt explosive enough to be a starting running back...he would be a good second stringer...but he doesn't have the ability to score from anywhere on the field, and there aren't too many teams that don't have a starting running back that can do that.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
The problem with Davis is..he isnt explosive enough to be a starting running back...he would be a good second stringer...but he doesn't have the ability to score from anywhere on the field, and there aren't too many teams that don't have a starting running back that can do that.
And the problem with Bush is he isn't a true RB he is a broken field runner. Combine his instincts and speed with DD's body and you have Tomlinson--a true elite RB.
 
R

real

Guest
infantrycak said:
And the problem with Bush is he isn't a true RB he is a broken field runner. Combine his instincts and speed with DD's body and you have Tomlinson--a true elite RB.
I never said replace DD with Bush, I just think we could use that extra weapon...Id like to see bush used all over the field...backfield, slot, reciever...
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
xtruroyaltyx said:
I never said replace DD with Bush, I just think we could use that extra weapon...Id like to see bush used all over the field...backfield, slot, reciever...
Maybe so, and I will readilly admit if I am wrong a couple years down the road. I just don't see having the highest paid guy on your team, around $9.1 mil per year, be a jack of all trades.

Folks can call me insane but I would rather spend a #10 (I know that wasn't his spot but for argument's sake) salary on Steven Jackson than a #1 salary for Bush to help the team out next year.
 
R

real

Guest
You're right, and the only other scenario that would be logical is to trade down for two first rounders or a first and a second...I just think picking a LT with the 1st overall is silly when theres no definitive Superior pick...
 

edo783

Hall of Fame
Assuming we have the 1st pick, to trade down and get two 1st rounders, particularly in the same draft, would require us to trade with someone picking in the mid teens IMO. A 1st this year and a 1st next year MIGHT allow us to stay in the top 10 this year. A 1st this year and a 2nd this year MIGHT allow us to stay close to the top 5, but all of that depends on where WE are sitting and what player is available. IF we can stay in the top 5 (assuming we don't have the 1st pick) and gain an extra first day pick this year and a first day next year, that is something I could vote for.
 

rmartin65

Phil Kessel: Nice Guy. Tries Hard.
infantrycak said:
Maybe so, and I will readilly admit if I am wrong a couple years down the road. I just don't see having the highest paid guy on your team, around $9.1 mil per year, be a jack of all trades.
Hines Ward was a jack of all trades and it worked for the Steelers right?
 
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