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Carr Facts...

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DRAMA

DRAMA

Rookie
Let's look at the facts -

Carr missed Dre for the first down - period. Watch the replays....he was there - no LB, no safety, no nada....

That's called a BAD decision.

The bad decision came at the most crucial time - period! Although it was a good throw, big deal. It was the WRONG throw. Wrong moves are mistakes. Mistakes cost you football games. The throw was riskier thus making it a harder catch thus making it too risky on a fourth down when the game is on the line. You don't make those mistakes and win. Again, mistakes cost you games.

Carr makes too many mistakes - period. So does Bradford, the ENTIRE OL, Coleman, Buchanon, and Babin. Pendry was getting on Carr because of the bad read.

Pbuc was benched
Babin was benched
OL guys were moved and benched
Bradford has been cut AND benched.
Carr? Anyone??? Bueller? Bueller?

Cannon arms are sweet. Mistakes are terrible because why class? They cost you games! Bradford dropping it was irrelevant because:

Bradford should not be playing anyway (Coach mistake)
Bradford should'nt be a Texan (Casserly mistake)
Bradford should not have been a legit option on a crucial play (Coach mistake)
Bradford should not have been looked at (Carr mistake)
Johnson should have ran that route with Gaffney underneath (Coach mistake)
Carr panics (OL mistake)
Carr doesn't read the D correctly (OL and CARR mistake)
Bradford drops it (Bradford mistake)

Mistake after mistake is why we're 1-16...err....1-7. Mistakes are controlled by coaching! Players are controlled by mistakes and players can be cut! Therefore mistakes can be eliminated!

It's seriously frustrating to hear we played well this week. MY GOD! No! We did NOT play well. We had one of our 21 out-pattern pass plays broken for TD. That's 1 all season. That does not constitute playing well. Coach Capers talking about heart and passion but lack of execution does not mean we played well. We didn't and DON'T play well. For whatever reason, we are not a good football team. I personally believe it's mistakes. I don't feel the talent level is that different on any team. It's the smart guys who are talented and DON'T make mistakes are the ones who win. They just happen to be coached by men who DO NOT allow mistakes to be made. Then again...maybe it's justy me and I'm a frustrated fan!

Aka - Doc Rocket
 
DRAMA said:
Let's look at the facts -

Carr missed Dre for the first down - period. Watch the replays....he was there - no LB, no safety, no nada....

That's called a BAD decision.
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Andre stopped on the route. FACT! :brickwall
 
DRAMA said:
Let's look at the facts -

Carr missed Dre for the first down - period. Watch the replays....he was there - no LB, no safety, no nada....

That's called a BAD decision.
Click to expand...

Did you see where the safety and LB were when Carr made his read on AJ?
 
AJ was open - watch the tape. Pendry was on him BECAUSE AJ was open. the play was to AJ.

And yes, AJ stopped......at 12 yards! know what that's called? First down! You know what that means? 4 more plays!

:hairpull:
 
DRAMA said:
AJ was open - watch the tape. Pendry was on him BECAUSE AJ was open. the play was to AJ.

And yes, AJ stopped......at 12 yards! know what that's called? First down! You know what that means? 4 more plays!

:hairpull:
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Try answering the question--where were the safety and the LB at the moment Carr made his read?
 
The funniest thing to me is that Carr is getting business for making a perfect pass in the hands of a WR who dropped the ball. The point of the game is score TDs not first downs.
 
DRAMA said:
AJ was open - watch the tape. Pendry was on him BECAUSE AJ was open. the play was to AJ.
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That turns out not to be the case. The reason that Pendry was on him was the previous sack.
 
Here's a better question, why isnt your #1 WR running a deep route on that play? Everyone is fixating on the "improper" read, I'm wondering why AJ wasnt running Bradfords route.
 
DRAMA said:
Not in the play....
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Ummm, wrong. The safety had his hand on AJ as they were travelling right to left approaching the LB as Carr looked to AJ. Seeing that he looked to Bradford, saw him open and threw the ball. You can see his head turn from AJ to Bradford in the tape.
 
LCROD said:
Here's a better question, why isnt your #1 WR running a deep route on that play? Everyone is fixating on the "improper" read, I'm wondering why AJ wasnt running Bradfords route.
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The way Dre was playing in the last quarter, he looked wiped. This was a big concern. He was playing (like Wand) like a guy who hasn't been in the game for a while (for Seth, about nine months). I haven't graded the tape yet, but I remember Dre either missed the route or came up way short. We may want him to be the go-to guy in this situation, but not this day. He wasn't the guy to go to.
 
I like the fact that Pendry will get on Carr's case and not just say, 'Aw shucks we'll try to do better next time.' I'm still a big fan of Carr's and believe he can be a very good QB. The days of treating him with kid gloves should certainly be over.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The funniest thing to me is that Carr is getting business for making a perfect pass in the hands of a WR who dropped the ball. The point of the game is score TDs not first downs.
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Exactly--like this team has been so consistant in its performance otherwise that the odds of a one strike TD to an open WR were lower than the odds of AJ getting the 1st down and the Texans marching 30 more yds for a TD in :35 seconds.
 
LCROD said:
Here's a better question, why isnt your #1 WR running a deep route on that play? Everyone is fixating on the "improper" read, I'm wondering why AJ wasnt running Bradfords route.
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As roles go, Bradford is classified as the "deep threat"
 
DRAMA said:
Let's look at the facts -

Carr missed Dre for the first down - period. Watch the replays....he was there - no LB, no safety, no nada....

That's called a BAD decision.
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Nice post here by Infantrycak, reviewing the game from his tape/Tivo - http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=14295

The pertinent part, snipped for your convenience -

":54 4th & 9 4 WR-3R, shotgun. :52 the ball is out, incomplete to Bradford. Pass protection good. Bradford is very open—hardly qualifies as double coverage as Deion Grant is so far away from play. Carr looks AJ 1st—at the time of the look, one Jag has hand on AJ and they are moving right to left approaching a LB. Carr then looks to Bradford and throws. AJ comes open after Carr’s head turns to Bradford. Looks like AJ comes open as the two Jags tangle on each other a little. Predominant fault Bradford."

The anti-Carr agenda wouldn't be as tired if it were lobbied with a bit more objectivity.
 
infantrycak said:
Exactly--like this team has been so consistant in its performance otherwise that the odds of a one strike TD to an open WR were lower than the odds of AJ getting the 1st down and the Texans marching 30 more yds for a TD in :35 seconds.
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Double exactly - the only place I've seen anyone question the decision/throw has been on this board. The coaches publicly acknowledge the fault was Bradford's.
 
I understand that there were people 'around him' as there were people 'around' Bradford - two of them actually but you throw the ball to the spot not the player. When AJ turns and hooks by 1 yard after running full speed, that guy's beat. Granted, it's only by a couple of steps but he's beat and is not in the play as considered by a QB making a 'read' on a pass. Otherwise, no one would ever be open because someone is always within 5 yards of the WR. But as an old QB, (Emphasis on QB not old), seeing my WR running the right route, that Safety can in no way make a play on that. IMO, he's in no shape to make a play. At the point he's riding him, the defender has no idea the little curl's coming. He's there and then he's not.

The pass to CB was a helluva pass and this post does not mean drop Carr. I want Carr to have an OL and then have judgement passed. My contention is that mistakes are the culprit and we see Bradford as the mistake on this play when I see it being Carr. Again, it's not personal against DC. I want DC to show he can 'read' - I want that but it's hard for him to do anything when a great game still contains 6 sacks.

More than anything I just want some change and a new direction. However, I still think Carr can lead that change.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The funniest thing to me is that Carr is getting business for making a perfect pass in the hands of a WR who dropped the ball. The point of the game is score TDs not first downs.
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Bottom line is that no matter how perfect that pass was, it is still a low completion percentage pass. On 4th down, your job as QB is to keep the drive alive. Why attempt a pass into double-coverage that is a 1 in 3 shot AT BEST? Throw in the fact that it was to Bradford, and it truly begs the question. Meanwhile you have some shorter options that have a much higher chance of keeping the drive alive to give the team a chance to win. Basically Carr struck out swinging when he only needed a single to keep the rally going.
 
infantrycak said:
Exactly--like this team has been so consistant in its performance otherwise that the odds of a one strike TD to an open WR were lower than the odds of AJ getting the 1st down and the Texans marching 30 more yds for a TD in :35 seconds.
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I would argue that you have to make that throw 100 out 100 times. (Even if you think that Bradford is 50-50 to catch it)
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I would argue that you have to make that throw 100 out 100 times. (Even if you think that Bradford is 50-50 to catch it)
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What stinks for me is that I completely agree with that 'mentality.' I so want us to be more agressive and stop playing to 'not lose.' Where we see things as different is simply on the down. On third, I make that throw 100 out of 100 times. For me, if I was QB or coach, I would've gone underneath...but again, that's me...
 
If Mathis was healthy, anyone else think he would have been running that route? Especially after the catch last week.
 
DRAMA said:
What stinks for me is that I completely agree with that 'mentality.' I so want us to be more agressive and stop playing to 'not lose.' Where we see things as different is simply on the down. On third, I make that throw 100 out of 100 times. For me, if I was QB or coach, I would've gone underneath...but again, that's me...
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You are not alone on this. I too question the decision on 4th and go home. QB's have to project open WR's and throw to the spot and I don't see Carr throwing to anyone unless they are wide open early in the route.
 
TheOgre said:
Bottom line is that no matter how perfect that pass was, it is still a low completion percentage pass. On 4th down, your job as QB is to keep the drive alive. Why attempt a pass into double-coverage that is a 1 in 3 shot AT BEST? Throw in the fact that it was to Bradford, and it truly begs the question. Meanwhile you have some shorter options that have a much higher chance of keeping the drive alive to give the team a chance to win. Basically Carr struck out swinging when he only needed a single to keep the rally going.
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The coaching staff had it outlined for Carr all day - if you get Bradford in single coverage against Kenny Wright, hit it. That is exactly what Carr did, and he did it perfectly. There was no double coverage, and the safety made it over to the play by the end but still didn't manage to get his hands on the ball. In fact, neither of the DBs ever touched the ball. Bradford had it in his hands, tucked it, and lost it when he hit the ground. Carr did as his coaches instructed.
 
TheOgre said:
Bottom line is that no matter how perfect that pass was, it is still a low completion percentage pass. On 4th down, your job as QB is to keep the drive alive. Why attempt a pass into double-coverage that is a 1 in 3 shot AT BEST? Throw in the fact that it was to Bradford, and it truly begs the question. Meanwhile you have some shorter options that have a much higher chance of keeping the drive alive to give the team a chance to win. Basically Carr struck out swinging when he only needed a single to keep the rally going.
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No...if the play is there you have to take it. In the NFL there no more that 5% -10% of plays where you have 33% chance of scoring a touchdown on that play. If Carr had thrown to Andre Johnson got the first down and the texans flounder out with an imcomplete pass , and dump off over the middle, and replay showed that Bradford was wide open then the some of the same people would saying Carr missed a wide open chance to score a TD. He tried to win the game and that was not a pass forced into coverage. That's a play a starting NFL QB is supposed make and he made it.

Carr finally makes a number pick in the draft decision and throw and still gets rundown because a below average WR does not do his job.
 
Vinny said:
You are not alone on this. I too question the decision on 4th and go home. QB's have to project open WR's and throw to the spot and I don't see Carr throwing to anyone unless they are wide open early in the route.
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It's been well-documented on here that this offense rarely has time to wait for a WR to come open, so yes, if they're open early in the route, he should hit them then. Waiting to see if AJ was going to come open would surely have closed the window for the Bradford throw. We can use hindsight to say that's acceptable, but when he's out there on the field, knowing it's 4th down and he has 2-3 seconds to unload the ball (how much of that time is decision-making?), he has to let fly.
 
infantrycak said:
Exactly--like this team has been so consistant in its performance otherwise that the odds of a one strike TD to an open WR were lower than the odds of AJ getting the 1st down and the Texans marching 30 more yds for a TD in :35 seconds.
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To illustrate this point. Assume that Bradford had a 50% chance of making the play and the Texans had a 90% chance of punching it in from the 5 in 35 seconds. .50 * .90 = .45 chance of succeeding.

Assume Andre has a 90% chance of making the catch and the Texans have a 30% of scoring from the 30 in 35 seconds. .90 * .30 = .27 chance of succeeding.

Given these numbers, the long pass was the less risky play. Of course anyone can juggle these numbers around - they are just assumptions I'm using as an illustration. I personally think Bradford had a better than 50% chance of making the catch. As far as the 30% chance of scoring from the 32, who knows? We are very touchdown challenged right now. That 30% may be high.

DRAMA said:
More than anything I just want some change and a new direction.
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I think the long pass was change and was happy to see it.
 
Let's assume that the bomb is indeed the play to run at that point - why not have that 6.3, 230lb, 4.3 guy who can jump out of the building running the route instead of the guy who was cut and not claimed by another NFL team?

I'm not saying that Bradford's not at fault - he is. He was at fault last week when that ball hit on the lips! I think the numbers are skewed because 50/50 chances do not include the percentage of balls caught. Bradford is arguably as bad as any player in the NFL at simply catching the football. So to say it's 50/50 is too high. I'll give Carr the 50/50 that his pass is perfect though. He throws that rope-bomb pretty well but Bradford's chance of catching it is maybe 15-18% tops, if I had to ballpark it.

We all know that Bradford can't catch. We've discussed it for years. When I ask myself would I be as upset if they took that shot with AJ running the route, my answer would've been no - I would've been more tolerant of that play call in that case.

The question still remains - why not run that rope-bomb maybe twice a game. You know you're going to throw it so protection is irrellevant. 1-mississippi, 2-mississippi, 3-mississippi - throw! Maybe just throw it for fun?
 
Fact: We really, really needed another David Carr thread. Can't have enough.

Theory: If Capers & Co. don't move Pitts back to LT against the Colts, all Tony Banks fans (and maybe Ragone lovers) will get to see their man on the field at some point this Sunday.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The funniest thing to me is that Carr is getting business for making a perfect pass in the hands of a WR who dropped the ball.
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Texan fans may simply have been stunned, no make that they went into total shock because Carr and the team actually tried to win the game. And
I'll take it a step further - had Bradford made that catch, got into the EZ
(or had they got into the EZ soon after Bradfords catch had he made it), I would have been thrilled to see the team go for a 2 pt conversion and a win instead of settling for a tie and OT. Can you imagine how people in KC (not to mention the Chiefs team) feel this week after the play that Vermeil called up there Sunday to win it ? With our record now at 1-7, I'm hoping we see more plays like the one in Sundays game. What do we have to lose ?
 
DRAMA said:
So to say it's 50/50 is too high. I'll give Carr the 50/50 that his pass is perfect though. He throws that rope-bomb pretty well but Bradford's chance of catching it is maybe 15-18% tops, if I had to ballpark it.
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Carr was throwing both balls, so I took him out of the equation. His short throws recently aren't any more or less accurate than his long ones.

15 to 18% sounds unrealisticly low to me, but bashing is in vogue.
 
nunusguy said:
I'm hoping we see more plays like the one in Sundays game. What do we have to lose ?
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I completely agree...I'd just like to see them sprinkle them throughout the game. Maybe, oh I don't know, at the end of the first half with three time outs?

I do agree, we should attack but our staff hasn't attacked in 4 years...it's more than likely not going to happen now. Heck, if you read the quotes from Capers, you'd think we're in the hunt for the playoffs if can just tweak a few minor execution flaws.
 
Runner said:
Carr was throwing both balls, so I took him out of the equation. His short throws recently aren't any more or less accurate than his long ones.

15 to 18% sounds unrealisticly low to me, but bashing is in vogue.
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Bashing who? Bradford? Seriously? This franchise has to live up to the expectations of this city. Me being a Houstonian gives me the right to expect more from a team that I help subsidize. A BBS is instilled to allow just that - the expression of my opinion based on my knowledge of the topic. I simply do not think that Bradford is better than Armstrong, Gaffney or AJ...or even Mathis from what I've seen really. I don't think Bradford catches 50% of his balls that are 10 yard curls? So to say that he MAY catch 20% of the BOMBS is unrealistic? Not so much...
 
I completely agree with Drama on virtually all of his points, sans the "we have the same talent" theory.

On 4th and 12 and a minute left, unless a guy, any guy, is WIDE open, you don't go for the home run. That's Jr. High stuff there. Anyone will tell you that. Your job there is to get the first down. Drama said it very well in his first post. Mistakes by the WR, QB, and coaching staff led to that particular play not being made at that moment. IF Bradford catches it and scores, of course I like the outcome, but I still wouldn't have liked the decision. Terrible decision by Carr. Dumb players like Carr and Bradford are bringing the entire football IQ of our city into negative numbers. It's hard to believe we are even having to debate this. This goes right into the "no brainer" catagory.
 
DRAMA said:
Bashing who? Bradford? Seriously? This franchise has to live up to the expectations of this city. Me being a Houstonian gives me the right to expect more from a team that I help subsidize. A BBS is instilled to allow just that - the expression of my opinion based on my knowledge of the topic. I simply do not think that Bradford is better than Armstrong, Gaffney or AJ...or even Mathis from what I've seen really. I don't think Bradford catches 50% of his balls that are 10 yard curls? So to say that he MAY catch 20% of the BOMBS is unrealistic? Not so much...
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I never made any claims about Bradford being better than anybody else, or said that you didn't have the right to expect more from your team. Yes, you have every right to post your opinion and be as adamant as you wish about it. I knew better than to post on a thread where so many of the original statements were followed by "period", but I posted anyway.

I'm sorry I wasted your time trying to discuss something on a discussion board.
 
DRAMA said:
I don't think Bradford catches 50% of his balls that are 10 yard curls? So to say that he MAY catch 20% of the BOMBS is unrealistic? Not so much...
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Bradford has caught 48.6% and 50% of the passes directed to him this year and last. Before you go aha, though, that includes missed balls, defended balls, etc. so for example Randy Moss has caught 45.6% this year 57.6% last year (no I am not equating Moss to Bradford, just using a commonly known example). From the QB perspective, about 30% of Carr's incompletions are poor throws, 13% are defensed--those are not out of line--once again for illustration purposes only, 35% of Manning's incompletions are poor throws and 20% are defensed. So basically, even though Bradford has infuriated fans by not making catches, the % of the time when the ball is delivered to him in catchable form that he has made the catch is much greater than you think.
 
infantrycak said:
Bradford has caught 48.6% and 50% of the passes directed to him this year and last. Before you go aha, though, that includes missed balls, defended balls, etc. so for example Randy Moss has caught 45.6% this year 57.6% last year (no I am not equating Moss to Bradford, just using a commonly known example). From the QB perspective, about 30% of Carr's incompletions are poor throws, 13% are defensed--those are not out of line--once again for illustration purposes only, 35% of Manning's incompletions are poor throws and 20% are defensed. So basically, even though Bradford has infuriated fans by not making catches, the % of the time when the ball is delivered to him in catchable form that he has made the catch is much greater than you think.
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All that analysis is nice, and I honestly am not trying to take anything away from it, but it's really a lot simpler than that. Watch the games. :brickwall
 
Porky said:
I completely agree with Drama on virtually all of his points, sans the "we have the same talent" theory.

On 4th and 12 and a minute left, unless a guy, any guy, is WIDE open, you don't go for the home run. That's Jr. High stuff there. Anyone will tell you that. Your job there is to get the first down. Drama said it very well in his first post. Mistakes by the WR, QB, and coaching staff led to that particular play not being made at that moment. IF Bradford catches it and scores, of course I like the outcome, but I still wouldn't have liked the decision. Terrible decision by Carr. Dumb players like Carr and Bradford are bringing the entire football IQ of our city into negative numbers. It's hard to believe we are even having to debate this. This goes right into the "no brainer" catagory.
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Your the same guy who bashes Carr for locking on and forcing the pass to AJ arent you? That was a good read, a great pass, and a bad drop. If you argue that CB shouldnt have a pass thrown his way he had playeda good game all day. The point is when you get a shot you take it. On 1st-4th if you are down by 7 and you have a man wide open its time to go for the jugular. PERIOD.
 
Porky said:
All that analysis is nice, and I honestly am not trying to take anything away from it, but it's really a lot simpler than that. Watch the games. :brickwall
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I have watched every game, thank you very much. Would I be happy if the Texans benched Bradford and once Mathis is healthy played 4 WR's with AJ, Mathis, Armstrong & Gaff?--yup. But until they do that, I expect Carr or any QB they trot out there to make the reads in the order directed and if the WR is open, to make the throw. That is their job, not to categorically refuse to throw to a WR because fans don't care what the odds are, because they know what they have seen. Good lord--folks have been complaining for years about predictable play calling--how about this one--every time the Texans need more than 8 yards they will throw to AJ.
 
Vinny said:
You are not alone on this. I too question the decision on 4th and go home. QB's have to project open WR's and throw to the spot and I don't see Carr throwing to anyone unless they are wide open early in the route.
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What about that big throw to Gaffney on 3rd down just the previous game? Carr threw into tight coverage downfield. Come on now, I could name many, many more. Even in the same game he threw a dart to the TE who didn't catch it. Carr threw one to Bradford too in a hitch with a man right on him and Bradford couldn't pull it down because the defender overpowered him. Do want me to go on?
 
Runner said:
I'm sorry I wasted your time trying to discuss something on a discussion board.
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I didn't mean for it to come out like that. I just thought that you were accusing me of bashing someone. I may come out against someone as a player that I think could be upgraded. I don't really think I'm bashing them. I'm not really that upset with CB because I don't expect him to make that catch really. The reason I get upset with Carr is because I expect more. Basically, everytime I get mad at Carr I'm really upset with coaches and OL for doing it to him. Kinda like getting mad a kid for acting out but you're really upset with his family, discipline, caring or lack thereof.

As for the periods following my statements, I think it's just a flair for the dramatic. I completely see where you're coming from...I just think we see some of the small things a little differently really.

The fact is, we all want to go to the same place - period! :D

:trophy:
 
DRAMA said:
I didn't mean for it to come out like that. I just thought that you were accusing me of bashing someone. I may come out against someone as a player that I think could be upgraded. I don't really think I'm bashing them. I'm not really that upset with CB because I don't expect him to make that catch really. The reason I get upset with Carr is because I expect more. Basically, everytime I get mad at Carr I'm really upset with coaches and OL for doing it to him. Kinda like getting mad a kid for acting out but you're really upset with his family, discipline, caring or lack thereof.

As for the periods following my statements, I think it's just a flair for the dramatic. I completely see where you're coming from...I just think we see some of the small things a little differently really.

The fact is, we all want to go to the same place - period! :D

:trophy:
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Well said. Even though I do expect any receiver in this league to catch most balls that hit him in both hands, opinions differ.

A few wins would go a long way to lightening things up.
 
DRAMA said:
Let's look at the facts -

Carr missed Dre for the first down - period. Watch the replays....he was there - no LB, no safety, no nada....

That's called a BAD decision.

The bad decision came at the most crucial time - period! Although it was a good throw, big deal. It was the WRONG throw. Wrong moves are mistakes. Mistakes cost you football games. The throw was riskier thus making it a harder catch thus making it too risky on a fourth down when the game is on the line. You don't make those mistakes and win. Again, mistakes cost you games.

Carr makes too many mistakes - period. So does Bradford, the ENTIRE OL, Coleman, Buchanon, and Babin. Pendry was getting on Carr because of the bad read.

Pbuc was benched
Babin was benched
OL guys were moved and benched
Bradford has been cut AND benched.
Carr? Anyone??? Bueller? Bueller?

Cannon arms are sweet. Mistakes are terrible because why class? They cost you games! Bradford dropping it was irrelevant because:

Bradford should not be playing anyway (Coach mistake)
Bradford should'nt be a Texan (Casserly mistake)
Bradford should not have been a legit option on a crucial play (Coach mistake)
Bradford should not have been looked at (Carr mistake)
Johnson should have ran that route with Gaffney underneath (Coach mistake)
Carr panics (OL mistake)
Carr doesn't read the D correctly (OL and CARR mistake)
Bradford drops it (Bradford mistake)

Mistake after mistake is why we're 1-16...err....1-7. Mistakes are controlled by coaching! Players are controlled by mistakes and players can be cut! Therefore mistakes can be eliminated!

It's seriously frustrating to hear we played well this week. MY GOD! No! We did NOT play well. We had one of our 21 out-pattern pass plays broken for TD. That's 1 all season. That does not constitute playing well. Coach Capers talking about heart and passion but lack of execution does not mean we played well. We didn't and DON'T play well. For whatever reason, we are not a good football team. I personally believe it's mistakes. I don't feel the talent level is that different on any team. It's the smart guys who are talented and DON'T make mistakes are the ones who win. They just happen to be coached by men who DO NOT allow mistakes to be made. Then again...maybe it's justy me and I'm a frustrated fan!

Aka - Doc Rocket
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PROPS TO THIS TAKE
 
infantrycak said:
Bradford has caught 48.6% and 50% of the passes directed to him this year and last. Before you go aha, though, that includes missed balls, defended balls, etc. so for example Randy Moss has caught 45.6% this year 57.6% last year (no I am not equating Moss to Bradford, just using a commonly known example). From the QB perspective, about 30% of Carr's incompletions are poor throws, 13% are defensed--those are not out of line--once again for illustration purposes only, 35% of Manning's incompletions are poor throws and 20% are defensed. So basically, even though Bradford has infuriated fans by not making catches, the % of the time when the ball is delivered to him in catchable form that he has made the catch is much greater than you think.
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i dont care what the stats say. i say bradford has poor hands. what is the percentage of catchable balls that bradford has droped compared to moss?
 
DRAMA said:
AJ was open - watch the tape. Pendry was on him BECAUSE AJ was open. the play was to AJ.

And yes, AJ stopped......at 12 yards! know what that's called? First down! You know what that means? 4 more plays!

:hairpull:
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WHO CARES, HE HIT BRADFORD WHO DROPPED THE BALL AND AJ SAID HE WAS WINDED! So you hit AJ and he drops the ball because he is tired.



TONY FREAKING DUNGY said on the NFL Network on Siruis radio that David Carr has the talent, no one really knows how good or bad he will be because of the INTENSE lack of pass protection. He then said Peyton Manning would get creamed behind our line.
 
markbeth said:
i dont care what the stats say. i say bradford has poor hands. what is the percentage of catchable balls that bradford has droped compared to moss?
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You don't care what the stats say and then ask for stats? Moss is better--the point is even Corey Bradford makes that catch 8+ times out of 10. In the context of decision making for the QB (the subject of the discussion) he should not refuse to hit an open Bradford for a potential game winning TD. If he is going to refuse to throw in that circumstance he needs to tell the coaches before the game so they can decide who to bench.
 
Goldeagle said:
WHO CARES, HE HIT BRADFORD WHO DROPPED THE BALL AND AJ SAID HE WAS WINDED! So you hit AJ and he drops the ball because he is tired.



TONY FREAKING DUNGY said on the NFL Network on Siruis radio that David Carr has the talent, no one really knows how good or bad he will be because of the INTENSE lack of pass protection. He then said Peyton Manning would get creamed behind our line.
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But doesn't that just mean Tony Dungy is a Texan homer??????????

To be clear: that was a joke.
 
infantrycak said:
You don't care what the stats say and then ask for stats? Moss is better--the point is even Corey Bradford makes that catch 8+ times out of 10. In the context of decision making for the QB (the subject of the discussion) he should not refuse to hit an open Bradford for a potential game winning TD. If he is going to refuse to throw in that circumstance he needs to tell the coaches before the game so they can decide who to bench.
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i wasnt even thinking about that pass. i agreed with the deep ball. what i dont agree with is bradford making that catch 8 of 10 times. its more like 5 of 10. but that still was better odds than johnson making the catch and us scoring from somewhere around the 30 yard line with around 30 sec left.

and im still interested in how corey compares to moss in holding on to catchable balls. if you have those numbers or know where i could find them let me know.
 
markbeth said:
i wasnt even thinking about that pass. i agreed with the deep ball. what i dont agree with is bradford making that catch 8 of 10 times. its more like 5 of 10. but that still was better odds than johnson making the catch and us scoring from somewhere around the 30 yard line with around 30 sec left.

and im still interested in how corey compares to moss in holding on to catchable balls. if you have those numbers or know where i could find them let me know.
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5 out of 10 - that's the number I used! I think it's a little conservative though. Anyway...

... I think the comparison of Moss to Bradford would result in.....no comparison at all. I think he chose Moss not because he had similar ability to Bradford, but to show that even the highly skilled receivers have their misses.
 
DRAMA said:
Let's look at the facts -

Carr missed Dre for the first down - period. Watch the replays....he was there - no LB, no safety, no nada....

That's called a BAD decision.

The bad decision came at the most crucial time - period! Although it was a good throw, big deal. It was the WRONG throw. Wrong moves are mistakes. Mistakes cost you football games. The throw was riskier thus making it a harder catch thus making it too risky on a fourth down when the game is on the line. You don't make those mistakes and win. Again, mistakes cost you games.

Carr makes too many mistakes - period. So does Bradford, the ENTIRE OL, Coleman, Buchanon, and Babin. Pendry was getting on Carr because of the bad read.

Pbuc was benched
Babin was benched
OL guys were moved and benched
Bradford has been cut AND benched.
Carr? Anyone??? Bueller? Bueller?

Cannon arms are sweet. Mistakes are terrible because why class? They cost you games! Bradford dropping it was irrelevant because:

Bradford should not be playing anyway (Coach mistake)
Bradford should'nt be a Texan (Casserly mistake)
Bradford should not have been a legit option on a crucial play (Coach mistake)
Bradford should not have been looked at (Carr mistake)
Johnson should have ran that route with Gaffney underneath (Coach mistake)
Carr panics (OL mistake)
Carr doesn't read the D correctly (OL and CARR mistake)
Bradford drops it (Bradford mistake)

Mistake after mistake is why we're 1-16...err....1-7. Mistakes are controlled by coaching! Players are controlled by mistakes and players can be cut! Therefore mistakes can be eliminated!

It's seriously frustrating to hear we played well this week. MY GOD! No! We did NOT play well. We had one of our 21 out-pattern pass plays broken for TD. That's 1 all season. That does not constitute playing well. Coach Capers talking about heart and passion but lack of execution does not mean we played well. We didn't and DON'T play well. For whatever reason, we are not a good football team. I personally believe it's mistakes. I don't feel the talent level is that different on any team. It's the smart guys who are talented and DON'T make mistakes are the ones who win. They just happen to be coached by men who DO NOT allow mistakes to be made. Then again...maybe it's justy me and I'm a frustrated fan!

Aka - Doc Rocket
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Would yoy still blame Carr if it was AJ running the deep route and he dropt it? What about if Bradford had caught the ball? If you acctually watch the replay, you will see that when Carr looks at AJ, the MLB is all over him, once Carr looks at Bradford, AJ is able to break away from coverage, but he was also 3 yds short of the marker, nothing guaranteed there. Carr made a good read and a better throw, period.
 
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