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OL - color me concerned

eriadoc

eriadoc

Texan-American
I never thought Butler was an adequate replacement for Winston, and nothing he's done has swayed that opinion. For all the times I complained about Winston getting eaten by a speed rusher, I knew he was better than Butler. And Antoine Caldwell has disappointed from the beginning. It took me a while to recognize, but he's never going to develop into a solid starting OL.

I think Schaub can make them look decent in the passing game, because he generally gets the ball out pretty quick these days, but the cut back lanes for Foster are going to be iffy.
 
eriadoc said:
I never thought Butler was an adequate replacement for Winston, and nothing he's done has swayed that opinion. For all the times I complained about Winston getting eaten by a speed rusher, I knew he was better than Butler. And Antoine Caldwell has disappointed from the beginning. It took me a while to recognize, but he's never going to develop into a solid starting OL.

I think Schaub can make them look decent in the passing game, because he generally gets the ball out pretty quick these days, but the cut back lanes for Foster are going to be iffy.
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Our run game will suffer this year.
 
I said this last year, but Tate actually does better in a few select situations, because he tends to keep the run playside, whereas Foster is always looking to cut it back. This is one of those situations. Tate will just follow the blocking and hit the hole hard.

Before anyone has reading comprehension issues, I am NOT saying Tate is better than Foster or should start.
 
I said that the O-line concerned me after the first preseason game and I feel worse about it now. That right side better get their $hit together quick.
 
eriadoc said:
I said this last year, but Tate actually does better in a few select situations, because he tends to keep the run playside, whereas Foster is always looking to cut it back. This is one of those situations. Tate will just follow the blocking and hit the hole hard.

Before anyone has reading comprehension issues, I am NOT saying Tate is better than Foster or should start.
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Tate may be a better runner - more explosive, quicker, better long-speed. He's
just not the pass receiver that Foster is.
 
The 2nd team Oline was a "virtual Oline".........invisible to the D. But beyond that. Yates seemed to cease to demonstrate any awareness to his surroundings when things broke down.
 
JimBaker488 said:
Tate may be a better runner - more explosive, quicker, better long-speed. He's
just not the pass receiver that Foster is.
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Oh, I don't think he's a better runner. Foster's lateral acceleration is just out of this world sick. Pair that with his incredible vision and shifty way of shedding tackles, and you have the best back in the league. Unfortunately, I think he'd be better off with a man blocking scheme with this caliber of OL. When the ZBS is working, lots of average RBs can do well, and guys like Foster can be All-World. But when Caldwell, Butler, Wade Smith, Derek Newton, and whoever else is missing their assignments and the line as a whole is not passing off to each other and working well as a unit, the cut back lanes are screwed.

I'd just like to see Foster stay playside more often, I think - which he did on the TD run.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The 2nd team Oline was a "virtual Oline".........invisible to the D. But beyond that. Yates seemed to cease to demonstrate any awareness to his surroundings when things broke down.
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I've said this on multiple occasions, I like TJ, but he's hit his ceiling. He isn't the future of this organization, not even close.
 
I think Butler just got demoted .... and Newton stole his spot.

Butler looked horrible all night , even when going against the second teamers.

Gardner got abused by the second teamers too , Yates was under pressure almost every play.


Brandon Brooks didnt have a penalty tonight ..... :kitten:
 
Corrosion said:
I think Butler just got demoted .... and Newton stole his spot.

Butler looked horrible all night , even when going against the second teamers.

Gardner got abused by the second teamers too , Yates was under pressure almost every play.


Brandon Brooks didnt have a penalty tonight ..... :kitten:
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This +1

Butler has been a big let down to me and Newton will start. Gardner is not any good at all.
 
I can't wait until this line gels.

I mean, it's hard to complain when they put up 240 yards and 24 points in a half.
 
We should all hope Newton wins the job. He's dirt cheap and tied up for a few years. If Butler wins the spot, we have to worry about paying him again.
 
Allstar said:
We should all hope Newton wins the job. He's dirt cheap and tied up for a few years. If Butler wins the spot, we have to worry about paying him again.
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Here's how I see it playing out. I think Butler wins the starting RT position but Newton is hot on his heals. I think Newton gets some playing time throughout the season and may even take the spot from Butler mid-season sometime. I think it's a pretty safe bet that Butler is gone at the end of this season and that Newton starts next year and that we draft an OT to be his backup in the 3rd or 4th round next year. If Butler wins the spot this year, it does not mean that we have to pay him again next year. He's a text book salary cap cut at the end of the season.

I really had high hopes for Butler this year and thought he'd be great at RT because he was finally getting his chance to start after being in the NFL for so long and due to it being a contract year for him, he's auditioning for every team in the league this year. I'm very disappointed in Butler at this point.
 
Corrosion said:
I think Butler just got demoted .... and Newton stole his spot.

Butler looked horrible all night , even when going against the second teamers.

Gardner got abused by the second teamers too , Yates was under pressure almost every play.


Brandon Brooks didnt have a penalty tonight ..... :kitten:
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Newton actually started tonight, and the announcers indicated at the beginning of the game that Kubiak had said Newton was currently leading the contest at RT. It appears that Butler did nothing in this game to change the coaches minds about that.
 
Corrosion said:
Butler looked horrible all night , even when going against the second teamers.

Gardner got abused by the second teamers too , Yates was under pressure almost every play.
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To be fair the Saints were blitzing in the 2nd half and Yates didn't do a very good job of recognizing the packages and the RB's made some HORRIBLE decisions also. Sacks are not necessarily the fault of the OL solely.

I'm more concerned with the run defense than the run offense.
 
MojoMan said:
Newton actually started tonight, and the announcers indicated at the beginning of the game that Kubiak had said Newton was currently leading the contest at RT. It appears that Butler did nothing in this game to change the coaches minds about that.
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And on top of all of that, it seemed that Butler was playing more late in the game with the rest of the scrubs while Newt was resting up more on the sidelines, being saved for a more important engagement later on - Sept 9 in Reliant. At the start of TC they said the job was Butlers to lose, and apparently that's just what's happened.
 
If Butler wins the starting job, it might be a short season for Schaub. Every time I see Schaub go to the ground, my heart stops.
 
Butler was getting beat last night, and it suprised me so much at how bad that I was suprised to see his number on the jersey. Newton did a better job, and I think the smart thing is to play him, let him get the reps, and gel with the line in the same way the Brown did. He's going to look bad on some plays, but the potential is there to do well, given time.
 
Miami's strongside DE Cameron Wake gave Winston fits last year and I think he got 2 sacks against him ? So anyway he might start drooling when he gets his first look-see at the Texans' RT play in this preseason.
 
nytexan said:
To be fair the Saints were blitzing in the 2nd half and Yates didn't do a very good job of recognizing the packages and the RB's made some HORRIBLE decisions also. Sacks are not necessarily the fault of the OL solely.

I'm more concerned with the run defense than the run offense.
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I'm the opposite. I'm not concerned with Run Defense-No Watt, No Cushing and No Cody. Once they get back or two of the three we'll be fine in Run Defense.

I'm very worried about the O-Line. I hope after a couple of "real" games they'll gel together and figure out how to make it work.
 
I would go with Newton and try Brooks at RT . Butler ... IDK ... he seems to reach a buch . Newton and Brooks seem to be much stronger than Butler .
 
In spite of the oline issues we moved the ball and scored 24pts in a half. That was inspite of the fumbles by the young guys. If they clean that up and I know no team is perfect and those things happen, but we will be fine in the passing game. I am hoping the run blocking gets better as the oline jells as a unit.

Run defense will be fine once Cush, Watt, and hopefully Cody get back in there.

We have to also remember Wade was keeping things very vanilla so our opponents don't see anything we didn't want them to see.
 
wolf123 said:
I've watched his play in all the preseason games and in practice. He doesn't move well and lacks strength in his hands. Gets beat all the time around the edge..
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I did not see any practices and have missed the last four minutes of each 4th quarter, but I have not seen many mistakes and believe he moves very well. I would like to see him at RT on Thursday in order to solidify his spot as the swing tackle.
 
texanhead08 said:
In spite of the oline issues we moved the ball and scored 24pts in a half. That was inspite of the fumbles by the young guys. If they clean that up and I know no team is perfect and those things happen, but we will be fine in the passing game. I am hoping the run blocking gets better as the oline jells as a unit.

Run defense will be fine once Cush, Watt, and hopefully Cody get back in there.

We have to also remember Wade was keeping things very vanilla so our opponents don't see anything we didn't want them to see.
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I honestly don't see an issue with the first group (whether with Newton or Butler was in there).

We shred the Saints for 240 yards in a half for God sake.

Outside of that sack he gave up, Butler was fine.
We actually had more subpar run plays to the left than to the right, and on the one to the right, it wasn't even Butler's fault.

In the second half, both Newton and Butler also did fine.

Of the sacks that we gave up:
- 2 were due to the call protection where nobody pick up the blitzer.
- One each was dut to Shelley Smith and Gardner.
- And one with the D-lineman responsible for by B. Jones.
He pull a stunt all the way around the edge. That's a long time. Yates needed to get that ball out sooner.
 
Was it me or did they not run any boots with Yates in? Seems like that would have allowed him to make more throws.
 
76Texan said:
I honestly don't see an issue with the first group (whether with Newton or Butler was in there).

We shred the Saints for 240 yards in a half for God sake.

Outside of that sack he gave up, Butler was fine.
We actually had more subpar run plays to the left than to the right, and on the one to the right, it wasn't even Butler's fault.

In the second half, both Newton and Butler also did fine.

Of the sacks that we gave up:
- 2 were due to the call protection where nobody pick up the blitzer.
- One each was dut to Shelley Smith and Gardner.
- And one with the D-lineman responsible for by B. Jones.
He pull a stunt all the way around the edge. That's a long time. Yates needed to get that ball out sooner.
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The one sack was on Smith. The one folks are putting on Gardner, should look at the play again.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
The one sack was on Smith. The one folks are putting on Gardner, should look at the play again.
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I'm not sure I followed you KT.

The one Gardner gave up, the defender #90 put on an edge rush and straight out beat him on the outside.

Yates fumbled the ball when the defender pulled on his arm.
Smith came back to recover the ball.

This was on 2nd and 10 with 3:34 to go.
 
Kaiser Toro said:
I did not see any practices and have missed the last four minutes of each 4th quarter, but I have not seen many mistakes and believe he moves very well. I would like to see him at RT on Thursday in order to solidify his spot as the swing tackle.
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That was the worst 4 minutes of football for the Texans offense .... both Butlet and Gardner allowed blow by's ... it reminded me of that comercial with HHWNBM lining up with no OL at all.

I was ready to cut the whole lot of them.


I thought Newton played pretty solid thruout the game. I wasnt very high on him coming into the season but he looks to be the better option.

Butler doesnt look like the same guy who filled in for Brown during his suspension.
 
Corrosion said:
That was the worst 4 minutes of football for the Texans offense .... both Butlet and Gardner allowed blow by's ... it reminded me of that comercial with HHWNBM lining up with no OL at all.

I was ready to cut the whole lot of them.


I thought Newton played pretty solid thruout the game. I wasnt very high on him coming into the season but he looks to be the better option.

Butler doesnt look like the same guy who filled in for Brown during his suspension.
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Isn't LT more of a finesse position and RT more physical . I think that's the issue .
 
76Texan said:
I'm not sure I followed you KT.

The one Gardner gave up, the defender #90 put on an edge rush and straight out beat him on the outside.

Yates fumbled the ball when the defender pulled on his arm.
Smith came back to recover the ball.

This was on 2nd and 10 with 3:34 to go.
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Makes sense, did not see the final four minutes. Thanks y'all, I am on the same page.
 
Houston Texans at 3:38

1-10-HST 20 (3:38) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass incomplete short right to L.Brock (K.Anderson).

Both OTs did enough for Yates to get off the pass.
Yates was a hair late and behind the TE.
If he led the receiver, that would have been a catch

2-10-HST 20 (3:34) (Shotgun) T.Yates sacked at HST 11 for -9 yards (T.McBride). FUMBLES (T.McBride), recovered by HST-S.Smith at HST 11. S.Smith to HST 11 for no gain (M.Wilson).

This is where Gardner whiffed.

3-19-HST 11 (2:55) (Shotgun) T.Yates sacked at HST 9 for -2 yards (T.Walker).
This is where the 43 DT stunted around the edge.
Yates should have stepped up the pocket.
Both OTs were fine.
4-21-HST 9 (2:23) D.Jones punts 37 yards to HST 46, Center-J.Weeks. G.Camarillo ran ob at HST 38 for 8 yards (E.Pleasant).
……..

Houston Texans at 1:55

1-10-HST 43 (1:55) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass short middle to J.Grimes to HST 49 for 6 yards (A.Daniels) [E.Mack]. Pass 2, YAC 4
Quick pass, nobody picked up the blitzer who put a hit on Yates just after he released the ball.
Both OTs did fine.

2-4-HST 49 (1:32) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass short middle to J.Grimes to NO 39 for 12 yards (B.Broughton). Pass 3, YAC 9 P20
Quick pass, no problem here.

1-10-NO 39 (1:12) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass incomplete short left to J.Grimes.
Both OTs were a bit weak, but they gave Yates just enough time (Garder needed help from Smith)..
Yates was a little late on the pass.

2-10-NO 39 (1:09) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass incomplete short left to J.Iglesias (N.Hixson).
No problem on protection here.
There was nobody open.

3-10-NO 39 (1:00) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass short left to J.Iglesias to NO 31 for 8 yards (C.Parks). Pass 5, YAC 3
No problem on protection here.

4-2-NO 31 (:37) (Shotgun) T.Yates pass incomplete short left to B.Johnson (E.Mack).
No problem on protection here.
 
Ben Jones looked good at center filling in for Myers. Can you try him out RT or is that too much of a stretch?
 
I think a RT should be our number 1 pick next year but an ILB should not be very far away...the position just look awful too...a first round rookie along with Cushing should fix that.

Hopefully by then Newton got his dookies together.
 
TexanCR said:
I think a RT should be our number 1 pick next year ...
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I'm not on board with a 1st round pick, but if you're going to spend a pick and develop from the draft, you have to come up with a better retention plan than just cut and pray. The Texans knew what Winston's contract was, but they didn't draft a replacement and they just cut him. Biggest mistake of the offseason, IMO. If you're going to build through the draft, you have to keep the guys you hit with or plan for their replacement.

Sorry, Butler was not a sound plan.
 
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