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Holliday's chances at making the team

Texn4life

All Pro
I understand he'll only be a pure return man, but in my opinion this guy has to be on the team. There are very few players that make u want to watch them every time they touch the ball and he's on that list. I also think it'll make Keshawn a better player being able to focus solely on the receiver position.
 

rmartin65

Phil Kessel: Nice Guy. Tries Hard.
I say he is a bubble player, but he gets the green light in my opinion. The pre-season will be important for him, but he is a huge threat with the ball in his hands.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
I see his chances are good, as Jacoby Jones' position on the team has
always been crucial, as a returner.

I think Kubiak will keep a pure returner if he proves to be special. He'd better
keep hustlin,' though.
 

Rey

Guest
I've had trindon making the roster every year since he's been here and I don't see any reason to change that now.
 

Texn4life

All Pro
If we release him he is guaranteed to be on a roster the very next day. I've never seen Kubiak smile to big on the sideline like he was after his big return.
 

Wolf6151

All Pro
It would really be nice to keep Holliday as purely a PR/KR guy but with only 53 roster spots it's hard to justify keeping a guy that can't do anything else. We'll see over the next few weeks if he can catch the ball and MAYBE we keep him as WR#6, if we carry that many. Hopefully he'll improve at WR. I agree it would be nice to allow Keshawn to concentrate on WR only. We'll see, but I'm not sure that Holliday as purely a PR/KR guy, is a luxury we can afford. I also fear the first time a 2nd or 3rd string LB opponent fighting for a roster spot on his team and trying to impress the coaches lays a massive hit on Trindon. I wonder if he'll get up.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
I understand he'll only be a pure return man, but in my opinion this guy has to be on the team. There are very few players that make u want to watch them every time they touch the ball and he's on that list. I also think it'll make Keshawn a better player being able to focus solely on the receiver position.
1 return in 1 pre season game HARDLY has me on the edge of my seat every time he touches the ball. BUT with as much depth as we have i "think" he has a good chance to make the team (IF AND ONLY IF he can contantly get us good field position)
 

Texn4life

All Pro
1 return in 1 pre season game HARDLY has me on the edge of my seat every time he touches the ball. BUT with as much depth as we have i "think" he has a good chance to make the team (IF AND ONLY IF he can contantly get us good field position)
Then you haven't watched him in college. This guy has rare speed for an NFL player. Any time he touches the ball there's an opportunity for a big play.
 

BullBlitz

Section 331
It would really be nice to keep Holliday as purely a PR/KR guy but with only 53 roster spots it's hard to justify keeping a guy that can't do anything else.
I don't think so.

A good PR/KR is worth a lot, especially since it's been years since we've had a competent one, and we supposed to make a playoff run year.

I don't care if he only does one thing. He's more valuable than a who's a backup linebacker and special teams player.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
Then you haven't watched him in college. This guy has rare speed for an NFL player. Any time he touches the ball there's an opportunity for a big play.
u must not of seen J.J when he came out of college. IF he can translate college success to the NFL and be a good returner on a consistent basis than hell yeah, but you have to earn a roster sopt. 1 Pre season game and one KR dont do that. If we can use that spot for another good prospect at WR then the decesion isnt so easy.
 

Joeycharp89

Waterboy
I don't think so.

A good PR/KR is worth a lot, especially since it's been years since we've had a competent one, and we supposed to make a playoff run year.

I don't care if he only does one thing. He's more valuable than a who's a backup linebacker and special teams player.

Agreed. He can potentially make our special teams a weapon, instead of just "ok." Look at the Cardinals, Patrick Peterson was like 50% of their offense :P
 

Texn4life

All Pro
u must not of seen J.J when he came out of college. IF he can translate college success to the NFL and be a good returner on a consistent basis than hell yeah, but you have to earn a roster sopt. 1 Pre season game and one KR dont do that. If we can use that spot for another good prospect at WR then the decesion isnt so easy.
It wasn't just one return though. He looked good in the return game all night. Just because he only had 1 TD doesn't mean he didn't have other good returns. I agree he'll need to show he can do it consistently but his ability to change a game is a reason Kubiak is giving him a shot.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
It wasn't just one return though. He looked good in the return game all night. Just because he only had 1 TD doesn't mean he didn't have other good returns. I agree he'll need to show he can do it consistently but his ability to change a game is a reason Kubiak is giving him a shot.
I said if in pre season he can give us constant good field position than great.

ALSO keep in ming the panthers had the 31st ranked Kick return coverage in the NFL. This team has been horrible at covering kicks and punts for years.
 

Texn4life

All Pro
I said if in pre season he can give us constant good field position than great.

ALSO keep in ming the panthers had the 31st ranked Kick return coverage in the NFL. This team has been horrible at covering kicks and punts for years.
I don't care if he did it against a high school team. He came very close to taking another return to the house.

The biggest question is if we keep him who gets left off the 53 man?
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
I don't care if he did it against a high school team. He came very close to taking another return to the house.

The biggest question is if we keep him who gets left off the 53 man?
My point is with so many questions at WR. I think it will be tough to keep a pure KR/PR who will not contribute on offense.

And yes it does matter who he does it against, because we have a tough schedule and u dont keep 1 guy on the team so he can do good against one team and suck against the other 15.
 

Texn4life

All Pro
My point is with so many questions at WR. I think it will be tough to keep a pure KR/PR who will not contribute on offense.

And yes it does matter who he does it against, because we have a tough schedule and u dont keep 1 guy on the team so he can do good against one team and suck against the other 15.
Kubiak has addressed this. He said he'll have to be special in order to keep him on the team. But its not like there aren't return guys in the league who don't play regularly. Look at Banks in Washington. He has a similar stature to Holliday.

And I disagree with u on who he does it against. We're looking at 2 different things it seems like. I look more for explosive ability and less about the results. The kickoff return he almost took back to the house when he was brought down by the back of his jersey impressed me more than his TD.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
Kubiak has addressed this. He said he'll have to be special in order to keep him on the team. But its not like there aren't return guys in the league who don't play regularly. Look at Banks in Washington. He has a similar stature to Holliday.

And I disagree with u on who he does it against. We're looking at 2 different things it seems like. I look more for explosive ability and less about the results. The kickoff return he almost took back to the house when he was brought down by the back of his jersey impressed me more than his TD.
It matters who u do it against. Noone was impressed when the texans secondary dominated Rusty Smith the season they were ranked 31st, now why is that ?

My point is lets see what happens next week with the 49ers who have had a good KR coverage unit compared to the 31st ranked Panthers team.
 

utahmark

markbeth
Marciano does'nt sound convinced.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/08/texans-holliday-knows-highlight-reel-td-will-not-be-enough/

That was noted by special teams coach Joe Marciano on Saturday, but with reservations.

“Let’s not anoint him just yet,” he said of Holliday. “He’s a big talent with a lot of room to grow. The touchdown was great, but …”

Then Marciano started a point-by-point dissection of some things Holliday could have done better on his other returns, ending with, “I’ll know better when I see the video.”

As Holliday said, it’s a big year for him to get attention. And, for better or worse, it’s starting early.

“It’s an intense job,” he said. “You just have to concentrate and do the best you can,”

Keith Cannon is a freelance writer.
 

Texn4life

All Pro
It matters who u do it against. Noone was impressed when the texans secondary dominated Rusty Smith the season they were ranked 31st, now why is that ?

My point is lets see what happens next week with the 49ers who have had a good KR coverage unit compared to the 31st ranked Panthers team.
Weak argument in my opinion. What you want to see is someone make plays no matter who they're going up against. Again, you're focusing on something different than me. His ability impressed me more than the actual results.
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
Weak argument in my opinion. What you want to see is someone make plays no matter who they're going up against. Again, you're focusing on something different than me. His ability impressed me more than the actual results.
i dont see how thats not a good agrument. This is the NFL, we have seen A LOT of players with tons of "college" potential not succeed in the NFL. I'm not saying he wont be a big success, but you cant crown him king of KR/PR after 1 game against a poor coverage team.

And yes you want to see a player succeed against ALL competition, not just weak opponents. What good is a QB who can only make the throws needed if it is against the worst of the worst secondaries.
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
It would really be nice to keep Holliday as purely a PR/KR guy but with only 53 roster spots it's hard to justify keeping a guy that can't do anything else. We'll see over the next few weeks if he can catch the ball and MAYBE we keep him as WR#6, if we carry that many. Hopefully he'll improve at WR. I agree it would be nice to allow Keshawn to concentrate on WR only. We'll see, but I'm not sure that Holliday as purely a PR/KR guy, is a luxury we can afford. I also fear the first time a 2nd or 3rd string LB opponent fighting for a roster spot on his team and trying to impress the coaches lays a massive hit on Trindon. I wonder if he'll get up.
This! ^^^

It will be very difficult, IMO, to keep Holliday as purely a KR/PR. Has anyone seen him take any reps at WR, and how has he looked? With our concerns at WR, I'd expect the Texans to keep 6 on the roster. AJ & Walter are for sure. Hard to see them not keep Jean, Martin, and Posey. That leaves Maehl, Johnson, and Holliday for that last 6th spot. Maehl is probably the best special teams player of the group, Johnson gives us experience we desperately need, and then there's Holliday. It'll be a tough battle.

With the moving up of the kickoff line, KRs are less important. IMO, in a regular season game, Holliday won't be taking alot of those kickoffs out of the end zone.

Personally, I'd like to see Martin get some reps as the returner. If Holliday is that much better, then I'm for keeping him... but that means cutting Johnson and Maehl, which I'm ok with.
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Marciano does'nt sound convinced.

http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexans/2012/08/texans-holliday-knows-highlight-reel-td-will-not-be-enough/

That was noted by special teams coach Joe Marciano on Saturday, but with reservations.

“Let’s not anoint him just yet,” he said of Holliday. “He’s a big talent with a lot of room to grow. The touchdown was great, but …”

Then Marciano started a point-by-point dissection of some things Holliday could have done better on his other returns, ending with, “I’ll know better when I see the video.”

As Holliday said, it’s a big year for him to get attention. And, for better or worse, it’s starting early.

“It’s an intense job,” he said. “You just have to concentrate and do the best you can,”

Keith Cannon is a freelance writer.
Funny, he wouldn't have mentioned that the blocking for Holliday wasn't there all night and that Holliday made most of what he got. The only positive thing I could say about the return blocking.........there weren't any signature Marciano special teams blocks in the back last night.:kitten:
 

hookinreds

Veteran
We kept Jacoby Jones on the roster for years, and he couldn't catch passes and couldn't return punts or kickoffs.
Not sure you can quote your self...but I was high on Jacoby when he first started returning...as soon as he got the ball, he was upfield. I think it was 2007 Week 3 against the Colts when he got blasted running up the sideline after a 74yd punt return in the middle of the 3rd quarter. He left the game for x rays and I believe he missed a game with an injured shoulder and then was nursing it over the next few games too. Something in my head always points back to that hit as the down turn in his return career. He was balls to the wall before that decleater, and then after that, he seemed to dance and go 75% on nearly every return. But then again, if I'm a starting WR, maybe he sand bagged a little so he wouldn't lose his WR job...or just continued shell shock from that hit. It could be the same thing for Holiday...JJ set our expectations in the 2007 preseason. I believe that after that blast against the Colts, his approach changed. Granted, he did have some nice returns, but nothing like what I think he could have been. Same could be said about Holiday, he's got all the potential, and we saw it in college, and then saw the muffs "possibly" from the hand injury last year and he didn't make the squad. Hopefully he can keep it up.
 

powda

The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I want to see consistently good returns and good decisions for the next two games. Ultimately, if the Texans keep 6 wideouts and their confident in the other 5 guys he has a shot to make the roster.

It sucks but I think his chances to be here hinge on how much they trust posey, martin, and jean.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
It would really be nice to keep Holliday as purely a PR/KR guy but with only 53 roster spots it's hard to justify keeping a guy that can't do anything else.
Not really. You're keeping a starting kick returner over a 3rd string WR, CB, or LB. Who is going to have more of an impact?

If we keep Holliday we lose a young WR. Need to see more before making that choice.
More likely losing a vet WR (Bryant Johnson). You could cut a Bryant Johnson now, and find another just like him (if not Johnson, himself) any week of the season. No biggie.

Can Holliday consistently field punts without muffing? Can he hold on to the ball after taking a big hit? Can he stay healthy? If the answer to these questions are "yes", Holliday can make the team. Roster space has little to do with the decision.
 

drs23

Veteran
:goodpost:

Pretty much exactly the way it is.

Kubiak said himself he wants to use Holliday as a returner. Seems like he's made up his mind as long as #16 can hold up his end. I like what I watched on punts and KOs.

Three more PS games to go. Guess we'll all see about the same time.
 

Joe Texan

Inducted 04
u must not of seen J.J when he came out of college. IF he can translate college success to the NFL and be a good returner on a consistent basis than hell yeah, but you have to earn a roster sopt. 1 Pre season game and one KR dont do that. If we can use that spot for another good prospect at WR then the decesion isnt so easy.
The only thing I saw jacoby jones do was fumble and run to mama
 

Allstar

Bona fide
Kubiak loves his projects. I say he's got a pretty good shot because we likely can't stash him on the PS anymore.
 

Rey

Guest
Not really. You're keeping a starting kick returner over a 3rd string WR, CB, or LB. Who is going to have more of an impact?


More likely losing a vet WR (Bryant Johnson). You could cut a Bryant Johnson now, and find another just like him (if not Johnson, himself) any week of the season. No biggie.

Can Holliday consistently field punts without muffing? Can he hold on to the ball after taking a big hit? Can he stay healthy? If the answer to these questions are "yes", Holliday can make the team. Roster space has little to do with the decision.
Best post in this thread.
 

Texn4life

All Pro
I also think it's telling that a guy like Joseph would go out of his way to go celebrate with him in the end zone. Don't doubt one bit that the players on the team aren't excited about how electric he is.
 
Kubiak loves his projects. I say he's got a pretty good shot because we likely can't stash him on the PS anymore.
I would not call this one Kubiak's project, to me it's more of a Coach Joe's project. Coach Joe was the one that got on the table to draft the kid.
 

GP

Go Texans!
Everyone loves an underdog.

Trindon scoring the kickoff TD was like Rudy getting into the game for Notre Dame. Everybody roots for the underdog.

Honestly, I'd like a full season off from hyped-up special teams returners. It takes one dumbass muff to ruin everyone's year.

Honestly there's been ONE return guy in this team's history who had reliable hands. He never took one to the house, but in two years here he returned 117 kickoffs, returned 72 punts, and fumbled one time out of those 189 touches on returns.

His name was JJ and it didn't stand for Jacoby Jones...it was JJ Moses.

Trindon has a helluva job ahead of himself if he wants to impress GP. To me, JJ Moses is the role model...you didn't have to worry about him hosing us with muffed or careless punts/kickoffs.

Trindon is like 1 inch into a mile long journey...people need to slow down.
 

NitroGSXR

Super Sic #58
Not really. You're keeping a starting kick returner over a 3rd string WR, CB, or LB. Who is going to have more of an impact?


More likely losing a vet WR (Bryant Johnson). You could cut a Bryant Johnson now, and find another just like him (if not Johnson, himself) any week of the season. No biggie.

Can Holliday consistently field punts without muffing? Can he hold on to the ball after taking a big hit? Can he stay healthy? If the answer to these questions are "yes", Holliday can make the team. Roster space has little to do with the decision.
You're mostly right but roster space has a little more to do with the decision in this case because we do have a viable returner on the team in Manning if all goes to heck. We are as balanced of a team as we ever have been. Versatility has been a big Kubiak theme. Holliday's going to have to catch some passes or do some successful end rounds. I can't see him sticking if he can't do something else good.

Just a FWIW, I like Holliday a whole bunch. I hope he makes the team. I think he's a playmaker.
 

Malloy

Hall of Fame
As mentioned in another thread, I'm hoping to see Holliday lining up as a WR next weekend. If he does, and does not make an ass of himself, he's got a real good shot at making the team.
 

281

Veteran
My question is, why haven't we put Forsett out there at returner? If Holliday doesn't make the squad, I think we should give Forsett a shot... that is, if HE makes the team.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
My question is, why haven't we put Forsett out there at returner? If Holliday doesn't make the squad, I think we should give Forsett a shot... that is, if HE makes the team.
And this is going to be the defining issue. Can Holliday stand so far out as a Kick/Punt returner that we are going to use a roster spot on him for just that one duty? Or, do we have someone that can return punts and kickoffs (probably not quite as good though) but that can also legitimately play another position?

Holliday is not going to legitimately play another position. He's to damn small. He makes the team because he's so damn good at returns he's worth a spot on the roster. Or not. This is the same deal as it's always been, it's just this year Holiday is showing us something.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
His chances to make the team ? Still slim .... but better than past years.

May come down to how many they keep at other positions. QB , RB , WR and OL are all area's that are in question. Keeping an extra at any of those spots would be a luxury that may affect his chances.
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
Funny, he wouldn't have mentioned that the blocking for Holliday wasn't there all night and that Holliday made most of what he got. The only positive thing I could say about the return blocking.........there weren't any signature Marciano special teams blocks in the back last night.:kitten:
Casey grabbing and pulling his man out of the way for Holliday's TD return wasn't a signature block? Ha. Casey got lucky
 

cland

Waterboy
I think Holliday not only has to continue to show special talent in the return game, he has to beat out the other potential return guys who can play an offensive position. If Keshawn Martin comes in and impresses at KR/PR then that's the end of the road for Holliday.
 
How about Holliday or a 2nd string FB like Moran Norris? Casey makes it possible...to go with no FBs that is.

This is all assuming Holliday can continue his success when the competition amps up.

And 3 years later....I'm STILL wondering why not give him a look as a RB. So small, so fast...he would be like lightning coming through or around a line.
 

GP

Go Texans!
Just go with four RBs, have Grimes be the returner. Roster problems solved.

I don't want a return-only guy on the roster. I want the roster maximized, and holding a spot in the 53 for a return man is not prudent...whether Holliday is legit or not.

He untested. And now is not the time to test it out.

The same with Bullock. There isn't room for us to test out a rookie FG kicker. If Graham makes his kicks this preseason, give me the veteran who has been there done that. There's no room to experiment anymore.

But if Holliday makes the 53, I'll support the decision and rally 'round him. I just think we need every person the roster to be a guy who is contributing via his talents (Foster, AJ, the stars)...or via their versatility (Casey at TE and FB, Grimes at RB and KR, Brooks at multiple OL positions).
 

281

Veteran
And 3 years later....I'm STILL wondering why not give him a look as a RB. So small, so fast...he would be like lightning coming through or around a line.
It might be because he could very well be the first NFL player to ever die on the field if that were to happen in a regular season situation.
 

The Medic01

Waterboy
It might be because he could very well be the first NFL player to ever die on the field if that were to happen in a regular season situation.
God could you imagine vs Ravens Ben Tate and Foster are restin Holiday is out there run down the middle Ngata or Ray Lewis gets him. That's it for him.
 
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Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
Just go with four RBs, have Grimes be the returner. Roster problems solved.
Its going to be either Trycycle or Martin for returns .... those guy's have special speed. Grimes might be a solid player but I cant see him getting return duties. Just doesnt have the elite speed he seems to me to be a Foster size back without the elusiveness and speed.
 
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