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Training Camp: Offensive Line

B

BCRich

Waterboy
Just looking through the excellent pictures provided by bullpenPhotos, it looks like they're trying out a few different combinations.

I'm seeing Newton a lot at RT.

For you guys who have actually been there, what does it look like to you? Is Butler entrenched as the starter, or is Newton giving him a run for his money?
 
BCRich said:
Just looking through the excellent pictures provided by bullpenPhotos, it looks like they're trying out a few different combinations.

I'm seeing Newton a lot at RT.

For you guys who have actually been there, what does it look like to you? Is Butler entrenched as the starter, or is Newton giving him a run for his money?
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You need to remember that Brown has been out lately which means both Butler and Newton are getting first team snaps at the same time. From the pictures, they were getting switched around between LT and RT. Seems to me like Kubiak intends it to be in a competition and we'll have to wait til the pre-season games to see who wins.

Also, Caldwell was exchanging with Brooks on 1st team RG but with Brooks having heat issues Caldwell might win the spot by default.
 
talking about the oline is about has nerdy has u can get i love it ... anyway anything is a upgrade over eric winston so i could care less who the starter is on RT

and even tho it shows mad toughness that Mike brisle played most of the time with a bum leg i think u gotta know that fine line of what can help ur team or hurt u team like playing injured
 
Brown is out with injury so Butler and Newton will both get alot of time with the straters at the same time at LT and RT respectively. As good as the reports have been about Brooks, I don't think there's any way he starts at RG over Caldwell. Kubiak just doesn't trust rookies enough. I think it's a very good thing that we seem to have some very good depth in Newton and Brooks, and would be looking for both of these guys to be starters in 2013. Hopefully they gain some playing experience during the season. The starting O-line will be:

LT-Brown
LG-W. Smith
C-Meyers
RG-Caldwell
RT-Butler
 
Wolf6151 said:
As good as the reports have been about Brooks, I don't think there's any way he starts at RG over Caldwell. Kubiak just doesn't trust rookies enough.
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You mean other than Brown, Winston, & Spencer... Kubiak just doesn't trust rookies.
 
Norg said:
talking about the oline is about has nerdy has u can get i love it ... anyway anything is a upgrade over eric winston so i could care less who the starter is on RT

and even tho it shows mad toughness that Mike brisle played most of the time with a bum leg i think u gotta know that fine line of what can help ur team or hurt u team like playing injured
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You're crazy, there's a reason Winston got picked up right away for 5 million a year.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
Anything on Ben Jones
Click to expand...

He is getting plenty of work as Myers back-up.

DSC_0247.JPG
 
Wolf6151 said:
As good as the reports have been about Brooks, I don't think there's any way he starts at RG over Caldwell.
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I agree that Brooks won't likely start on opening day. But, Caldwell has had injury issues and rotated with Brisiel in the past. I would be surprised if Brooks didn't get a fair number of snaps over the course of the season.

The Texans official site's depth chart has not been updated (what's new?). Can anyone provide a depth chart based upon what they've seen at practice?
 
I wouldn't be surprised if Brooks earns a starting job in pre season when the games begin.

His greatest attribute is his physicality and ability to move/punish people.

You can't fully display that in any form of practice.

I think if he has a basic understanding of the plays he'll be able to showcase himself.

If he gets out there and is visibly out physical-ing the guys on defense it's going to be hard to keep that out of the line up.
 
On the fb spot;

I think the decision is going to be tougher than some might imagine.

I think this is another spot that will need to be decided in actual games. Might be a little difficult to let go of a good, athletic young fb with pop.

Kubiak said they are only keeping one fb so I'm also wondering if they go with only 4 total fb/te's. OD, Casey, Grahm, and a fb. I've advocated for this as I think it's efficient and productive barring the group stays relatively healthy.

I think it would open up the door for us to keep an extra wr and/or rb.

I'm a Jonathan grimes fan so I wouldn't mind him making the team. And I also like trindon a lot.
 
Lucky said:
I agree that Brooks won't likely start on opening day. But, Caldwell has had injury issues and rotated with Brisiel in the past. I would be surprised if Brooks didn't get a fair number of snaps over the course of the season.

The Texans official site's depth chart has not been updated (what's new?). Can anyone provide a depth chart based upon what they've seen at practice?
Click to expand...

Ourlads depth charts seem to consistently keep the most updated site for such info (last updated 08/04/12).
 
Lucky said:
The Texans official site's depth chart has not been updated (what's new?). Can anyone provide a depth chart based upon what they've seen at practice?
Click to expand...

Based on TexansBullpen photos, this is what I have for first and second string:

LT: D. Brown / A. Gardner
LG: W. Smith / S. Smith
OC: C. Myers / B. Jones
RG: A. Caldwell / B. Brooks
RT: R. Butler / D. Newton
WR: A. Johnson/ K. Walter / K. Martin / L. Jean / D. Posey (the last three are getting rotated all over the place. Put Martin first because he looks to be the most likely to get slot WR duty)
TE : O. Daniels / J. Casey / G. Graham
FB : D. Smith / M. Norris (have to imagine Casey is the true frist string but has seen little time at FB so far)
RB : A. Foster / B. Tate / J. Forsett
QB: M. Schaub / T.Yates

LDE: J. Watt / T. Jamison
NT: S. Cody / E. Mitchell
RDE: A. Smith / J. Crick
SOLB: B. Reed / B. Braman
SILB: B. James / T. Dobbins
WILB: B. Cushing / M. Alexander
WOLB: C. Barwin / W. Mercilus
CB: J. Joseph / K. Jackson / B. McCain / A. Ball / S. McManis /B. Harris (Hard to evaluate off of pictures. Note that since Kareem was out McCain was being used outside. I believe McManis did 1st string nickle while Harris was 2nd string nickle. Much to my dismay, Ball was working consistently with the 2nd string.)
LS: D. Manning / T. Nolan
RS: G. Quin / Q. Demps (For the safeties, they seemed to be on a specific side no matter the offensive formation.)
 
Rey said:
On the fb spot;

I think the decision is going to be tougher than some might imagine.

I think this is another spot that will need to be decided in actual games. Might be a little difficult to let go of a good, athletic young fb with pop.

Kubiak said they are only keeping one fb so I'm also wondering if they go with only 4 total fb/te's. OD, Casey, Grahm, and a fb. I've advocated for this as I think it's efficient and productive barring the group stays relatively healthy.

I think it would open up the door for us to keep an extra wr and/or rb.

I'm a Jonathan grimes fan so I wouldn't mind him making the team. And I also like trindon a lot.
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I'd bet a wooden nickel Smith ain't making this team. Norris was clearly the better blocker (Smith had nice soft hands but he was on the ground quite a few plays the other day).
 
NastyNate said:
I'd bet a wooden nickel Smith ain't making this team. Norris was clearly the better blocker (Smith had nice soft hands but he was on the ground quite a few plays the other day).
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If I'm not mistaken Smith has been running with the ones quite a bit if not almost exclusively.

You don't spend that much time with the first team with no shot at making the roster.

When the games start if smith is making his blocks and still showing that good burst and athleticism from that fb spot I think you might have to find that wooden nickle.
 
Rey said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Brooks earns a starting job in pre season when the games begin.

His greatest attribute is his physicality and ability to move/punish people.

You can't fully display that in any form of practice.

I think if he has a basic understanding of the plays he'll be able to showcase himself.

If he gets out there and is visibly out physical-ing the guys on defense it's going to be hard to keep that out of the line up.
Click to expand...

Preach it.

I wanna see Brooks steamrolling defenders. I think the only O-lineman we drafted this year, who doesn't make the 53, is Mondek. And he'll go to the PS.
 
Rey said:
If I'm not mistaken Smith has been running with the ones quite a bit if not almost exclusively.

You don't spend that much time with the first team with no shot at making the roster.

When the games start if smith is making his blocks and still showing that good burst and athleticism from that fb spot I think you might have to find that wooden nickle.
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You are mistaken, Norris was taking first team reps the other day.
 
NastyNate said:
You are mistaken, Norris was taking first team reps the other day.
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That's why I said quite a bit and almost exclusively.

I have not been out there at all but everything I've heard and read has said he's been getting a bunch of first team reps.

Matter of fact there is a poster in this thread that has him as a starter on their depth chart based on something they saw.

All I'm saying is that guys who take reps with the first team offense have a good shot at making the roster.
 
Rey said:
I wouldn't be surprised if Brooks earns a starting job in pre season when the games begin.

His greatest attribute is his physicality and ability to move/punish people.

You can't fully display that in any form of practice.

I think if he has a basic understanding of the plays he'll be able to showcase himself.

If he gets out there and is visibly out physical-ing the guys on defense it's going to be hard to keep that out of the line up.
Click to expand...

I agree. I'm not sure how quickly it will take place, but Brooks will be the RG. Honestly, I think the only thing holding him back is the knowledge and experience of the playbook. IMO, he's already surpassed Caldwell from the limited amount I've seen of him.

I know I seem to be doggin Caldwell quite a bit. I actually think he's a good dude. It just takes that certain mean streak to play in the trenches. I don't think he has it.
 
Rey said:
His greatest attribute is his physicality and ability to move/punish people.
Click to expand...
Honestly, what do you base that on ? Did you see him play in college, or have you seen him extensivily in the TC this summer ?
He's big, we know that, but just size alone doesn't = physicality and an ability to move/punish people.
Please elaborate ?
 
IDEXAN said:
Honestly, what do you base that on ? Did you see him play in college, or have you seen him extensivily in the TC this summer ?
He's big, we know that, but just size alone doesn't = physicality and an ability to move/punish people.
Please elaborate ?
Click to expand...

Yes I've seen a few clips/games of him in college. But you can also read scouting reports and when all of them are unanimous on one aspect, it's likely true.

It's pretty much common knowledge that Brooks is a people mover.
 
IDEXAN said:
Did you see him play in college, or have you seen him extensivily in the TC this summer ?
He's big, we know that, but just size alone doesn't = physicality and an ability to move/punish people.
Please elaborate ?
Click to expand...

I've seen plenty of Brooks in college.
He's big, strong. He can move laterally, he's really quick for a guy that size.
He has 34" arms. He uses his hands well to block or redirect (Many of these factors no doubt played into Kubiak's thinking that Brooks might be able to handle the OT position in the future - He had said that much during camp.)

In Brooks' thread, I think I had mentioned that he can even hold off a DT easilly (in the Shrine game) with one outstreched hand while waiting for the second O-lineman to take over so he can get to the second level.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91698&page=5

Start with post #81

...

If he can maintain a good playing weight and progresses "normally", I think he has a really bright future.
 
Our Offensive Line is not offensive. Thank god. I remember the days when it was.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Must be why I always say O-line, the other just sounds wrong.
 
When asked about the combination of Butler and Caldwell after the morning practice, coach Gary Kubiak said, “They’re doing a good job. They’re being pushed really hard. Brooks and Smith are pushing Caldwell. Newton’s pushing the heck out of Butler. It’s going to be a tough call. I couldn’t make that call today.”
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...-intensifies-at-right-tackle-and-right-guard/
*********************************************
The HC says it's too close for him to call at RT ? So is there really a 50/50 chance Newt starts in Reliant vs the 'Phins next month ?
 
IDEXAN said:
When asked about the combination of Butler and Caldwell after the morning practice, coach Gary Kubiak said, “They’re doing a good job. They’re being pushed really hard. Brooks and Smith are pushing Caldwell. Newton’s pushing the heck out of Butler. It’s going to be a tough call. I couldn’t make that call today.”
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...-intensifies-at-right-tackle-and-right-guard/
*********************************************
The HC says it's too close for him to call at RT ? So is there really a 50/50 chance Newt starts in Reliant vs the 'Phins next month ?
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Yeah, this is something I was saying before TC. I think Newt's development is what helped to push Winston out the door. I think they see Newton as The Guy on the right side and Butler as the swing guy.

And I'm really happy to see that Smith is still in the running at RG. I had high hopes for him when he was drafted. Of course, I had high hopes for Caldwell when he was drafted and I've got high hopes for Brooks now.

Hopefully, we're set at G for a long time.
 
IDEXAN said:
When asked about the combination of Butler and Caldwell after the morning practice, coach Gary Kubiak said, “They’re doing a good job. They’re being pushed really hard. Brooks and Smith are pushing Caldwell. Newton’s pushing the heck out of Butler. It’s going to be a tough call. I couldn’t make that call today.”
http://blog.chron.com/ultimatetexan...-intensifies-at-right-tackle-and-right-guard/
*********************************************
The HC says it's too close for him to call at RT ? So is there really a 50/50 chance Newt starts in Reliant vs the 'Phins next month ?
Click to expand...


Here's today's Texans depth chart (8/8/12):


WR1 Andre Johnson--Keshawn Martin--Lestar Jean--Juaquin Iglesias--Jerrell Jackson

LT Duane Brown--Andrew Gardner--Nathan Menkin

LG Wade Smith--Kasey Studdard--Cody White

C Chris Myers--Ben Jones--Cody Wallace--Thomas Austin

RG Antoine Caldwell--Brandon Brooks--Shelley Smith

RT--Rashad Butler--Derek Newton--Nick Mondek

TE--Owen Daniels--Garrett Graham--Logan Brock--Phillip Supernaw

WR2 Kevin Walter--Bryant Johnson--DeVier Posey--Jeff Maehl--Trindon Holliday--Mario Louis

QB Matt Schaub--T.J. Yates--John Beck--Case Keenum

RB Arian Foster--Ben Tate--Justin Forsett--Jonathan Grimes--Davin Meggett

FB James Casey--Derrell Smith--Moran Norris
Click to expand...

The left side of the line looks very thin after we get past Duane Brown (LT) and Wade Smith (RG).

The right side of the line looks stout in both the 1st and the 2nd string positions.

Will Kubiak let the 2nd string LT and 2nd string LG take over if Duane Brown or Wade Smith gets hurt in a game...or will he plug in either Brandon Brooks or Newton over to the left side instead???
 
GP said:
Will Kubiak let the 2nd string LT and 2nd string LG take over if Duane Brown or Wade Smith gets hurt in a game...or will he plug in either Brandon Brooks or Newton over to the left side instead???
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If Brown is hurt, I think Butler slides over to LT and Newton comes in at RT. If Wade Smith gets hurt...I'm not sure. Could be Brooks, or it could even be Ben Jones. Don't see Studdard making the team.
 
Lucky said:
If Brown is hurt, I think Butler slides over to LT and Newton comes in at RT. If Wade Smith gets hurt...I'm not sure. Could be Brooks, or it could even be Ben Jones. Don't see Studdard making the team.
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If Wade Smith gets hurt I hope they move Shelley Smith in there. I think he'd be better than Studdard. He was on IR all last year so I hope he gets a chance this season. Like PN said "I had high hopes for him when he was drafted."
 
Lucky said:
If Brown is hurt, I think Butler slides over to LT and Newton comes in at RT. If Wade Smith gets hurt...I'm not sure. Could be Brooks, or it could even be Ben Jones. Don't see Studdard making the team.
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At the end of the day it comes down to getting your best guys on the field.

If Brooks, smith and Caldwell are the three best guards on the team then two of them will be on the field together.
 
Insideop said:
If Wade Smith gets hurt I hope they move Shelley Smith in there. I think he'd be better than Studdard. He was on IR all last year so I hope he gets a chance this season. Like PN said "I had high hopes for him when he was drafted."
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First, I think a blocking sled would be better than Studdard. But, I don't know where any hopes for Shelley Smith stem from. He's never played in a regular season game, and he's only played against scrubs in the preseason. I think Smith is preseason roster filler at this point, with the Texans moving on with guys like Brooks, Jones, and Mondek.
 
Lucky said:
First, I think a blocking sled would be better than Studdard. But, I don't know where any hopes for Shelley Smith stem from. He's never played in a regular season game, and he's only played against scrubs in the preseason. I think Smith is preseason roster filler at this point, with the Texans moving on with guys like Brooks, Jones, and Mondek.
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The hope for Shelley Smith comes from the fact that he's been in a zone-blocking system for a long time and he's the sort of athletic, agile sort of player that this system is built for.

From prior to his senior year:
http://cfn.scout.com/2/855288.html
He could flourish with the right team and the right system. He might not be a bulldozer for a power-running team, but with his great quickness and athleticism he’d be perfect for a West Coast offense. He didn’t allow a sack last season and has the feet and movement to handle interior pass rushers at the next level. Most importantly, he’ll be great for teams looking make things happen on the outside with the ability to move fluidly when he’s on the move. Going into the season, he’s projected to be a fifth rounder in the 2010 NFL Draft.
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Sometimes it takes offensive linemen time to mature and develop. But when we drafted him, I had hopes that he'd be a backup for a few years and then develop into a starter. I'm still hoping that he shows some improvement and starts to pressure for a starting job.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
The hope for Shelley Smith comes from the fact that he's been in a zone-blocking system for a long time and he's the sort of athletic, agile sort of player that this system is built for.
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I guess what I'm saying is that I haven't seen anything from Smith on a NFL field to get excited about. He's in his 3rd year, and he's not competing for a starting job. Smith is competing for his NFL life. If he has the athleticism and agility he's purported to have, now is the time for Smith to show it. I'm not holding my breath.
 
Lucky said:
I guess what I'm saying is that I haven't seen anything from Smith on a NFL field to get excited about. He's in his 3rd year, and he's not competing for a starting job. Smith is competing for his NFL life. If he has the athleticism and agility he's purported to have, now is the time for Smith to show it. I'm not holding my breath.
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I don't think that's so much different than what I'm saying. I had hopes for him when he was coming in and now it's time for him to show it. If he doesn't, he's gone.
 
Lucky said:
at this point, with the Texans moving on with guys like Brooks, Jones, and Mondek.
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From what I've seen of Jones, he's an even more unlikely ZB prospect than Brooks, but he does have multiple-years starting experience in triple A competition (SEC). Now Mondek does look the part of a zone-guy and I'm hoping we get a good look-see during the preseason ?
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I don't think that's so much different than what I'm saying. I had hopes for him when he was coming in and now it's time for him to show it. If he doesn't, he's gone.
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I think we've even cut him a time or two, iirc.

*edit* Nevermind. We just waived him to sign to PS

08/30/2011
Placed on the reserve/injured list: WR Devard Darling, WR Lestar Jean, G Shelley Smith, G Kasey Studdard.

10/05/2010
Signed G Shelley Smith to the practice squad. Release WR Bobby Williams from the practice squad.

10/02/2010
Waived G Shelley Smith. Signed LB Isaiah Greenhouse to the active roster.
Click to expand...
 
Lucky said:
I guess what I'm saying is that I haven't seen anything from Smith on a NFL field to get excited about. He's in his 3rd year, and he's not competing for a starting job. Smith is competing for his NFL life. If he has the athleticism and agility he's purported to have, now is the time for Smith to show it. I'm not holding my breath.
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Smith keeps his head on a swivel and clocks the defender.

http://youtu.be/bLtxMzOxuYE

Smith gets to the front side shoulder and seals his guy inside.

http://youtu.be/pbgQ0ezDIyA

Smith gets to the second level and seals the 'backer.

http://youtu.be/-T1uTSklLK4
 
From what I've observed, other than his rookie year, the Texans have kept him on the right side. Has anyone seen him working on the left side since? Admittedly, I have been the most anti-Duddard person since he's been on this team, but I cannot figure out why Smith hasn't moved in behind W. Smith at LG.

Shelly Smith is the biggest mystery to me on this team and has been since his rookie year.
 
I thought Shelly Smith really looked good Saturday night at LG, which is his natural position given his impressive athleticism. He was very quick getting into the second-level and going after 'backers.
The big rookie guard didn't do too badly for his first NFL game. I think he's still clearly more of a power than a zone type OLineman, and not just because of his size.
Now I think we got concerns at RT because both Butler and Newt got embarrassed in pass-blocking. Of course it's early and nobody should panic just yet, but I'm hoping to see some improvement in next weeks game. On the positive side, their run-blocking was solid.
 
HOU-TEX said:
I agree. I'm not sure how quickly it will take place, but Brooks will be the RG. Honestly, I think the only thing holding him back is the knowledge and experience of the playbook. IMO, he's already surpassed Caldwell from the limited amount I've seen of him.

I know I seem to be doggin Caldwell quite a bit. I actually think he's a good dude. It just takes that certain mean streak to play in the trenches. I don't think he has it.
Click to expand...

Conservative Gary is already replacing 2/5ths of his offensive line. The pressure to win now is as gr8 as it's ever been.

If his left guard struggles the way he did last year, my money is on him waiting on the vet to turn it around before introducing a new face to the OLine.
 
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