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Badboy's 2012 final mock

badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
I expect this one to cause as much discussion and "OH NO! What are you thinking!" as others. I hope you read the entire thread before lashing out as I will lay out my thinking before & possibly after the rounds.

First I want to state that most of my picks from earlier mocks will not be available now such as Kendall Wright. Many are saying he drops to 2nd but I say lol. I am drafting heavy on receivers as most needy position. JJ needs to go and LeStar and Maehl while interesting have little for us to contemplate. If either succeeds, lucky us but not willing to gamble there. OLB is not on my mock and that probably will send many of you to ER. Prior to draft, we have exactly same OLBs we played most of the season with & that depth held up well. I am not drafting OLB before third due to other needs and no OLB 4th and later would beat out what we have.

1. Donta Hightower ILB/OLB Alabama 6'2" 265 4.62 vert: 32" arms 32 5/8
Demeco who? Dont'a starts day one ILB and takes some pressure off Cush who should be even better. This guy strengthens the nose in helping to shut down run. 2011 was first year back from season ending knee surgery & will be even better '12. I mock him mid-season and many thought I was crazy. Some of you now agree.
In '11 he showed increased speed and lateral quickness (knee). 2011 stats:
85 T, 11 TFLs, 4 sacks, 1 INT, 3 passed batted. If Reed or Barwin goes down, he can move to OLB. This actually adds a player to OLB depth. His physique makes AJ look like Clark Kent.

2. Marvin McNutt WR Iowa 6'3" 216 4.54 I started focusing in mid '11 and was impressed. Stats prob better if he was in a high octane O. Solid WR2 with good hands, routes, vert 37" (caramba!)arms 31 5/8" 82/1315 12 TDs

3. Mike Martin Michigan NT 6' 1 3/8" 36" vert 225 bench 36x extremely strong upper/lower with great anchor, tremendous motor, effective bull rush, sheds double teams & collapses pocket. Allows Mitchell to move back to DE.

4a. Tommy Streeter WR Miami, Fla. 6'4" 215 4.40 vert 33" 46/811 8 TDs. Some will say I'm reaching and I say next AJ in two years. Red Zone that all want.

4b. Ryan Broyles slot/PR OKLA 5'10" 192 4.46 (projected) drops to here only due to injury. Stats in shortened '11 83/1157 Perfect slot and PR career 108/1194 11.1

5. Winston Guy SS/FS/CB Kentucky 6'1"218 who was moved last season to hybrid LB to take advantage of his tackling. He is the utlimate safety for Wade's defense. I've watched for 2 years & mocked him last draft but he returned school. '11: 120T, 14 TFL, 2 passes batted, 2INTs, 1 fumble Career tackling machine who might be gone as high as 3rd. I think move to LB may have cost him. 2010 he ran unofficial 4.46 but I lost link.

6. Randy Bullock K Texas A&M 5'9" 212 29/33 FG 55/57 extra pts. Draft or lose. No good UDFA kickers

7. Lonnie Edwards LG Texas Tech 6'4" 322 3 year starter LG. Move Wade Smith to RG to solidify right side and assist Butler. More action to that side now. Edwards to start between Brown and Myers. TT's high powered offense allows Edwards more experience and he fits perfectly zone blocking.

UDFAs: Chad Diehl FB CLemson 6'2" 257 one trick pony but exactly what's needed.
UDFAs: TBob Hebert (yeah that guy's son) LSU C/OG 6'3" 300 started 11 center 2010 and 5 OG 2011. Myer's replacement 2-3 yrs.
UDFA: at least one QB & a TE

:aggressive:
 
1. Hightower, I really like the player and think that he fits the Texans system perfectly, but I don't think the Texans are valuing ILB that highly in this draft and don't think he makes it past Pittsburgh. I don't see a need for a guy who will step into Demeco's shoes and rotate out of the game about half of all defensive snaps.
2. McNutt, I like this pick, lots of good WR's in the 2nd round and he's got size.
3. Martin, I think this is a round early and I'm just not a fan of Martin, can't really explain it , just a feeling.
4a. Streeter, this is a great pick if available. He might not play much the first year but he's got great potential.
4b. Broyles, I'm not a fan especially with the injury, there are to many healthy WR's available to be picking one that might start the year on IR.
5. Guy, as long as he has cover skills this is a good pick, Safety depth is a need. I think the signing of Demps today means you can change this pick.
6. Bullock, this might be your best pick on the board, should solidify K for the next 10-15 yrs.
7. Edwards, depth on the O-line is always a good thing.

You finally have Diehl where he belongs. Good job.
 
Last edited:
badboy said:
1. Donta Hightower ILB/OLB Alabama 6'2" 265 4.62 vert: 32" arms 32 5/8


2. Marvin McNutt WR Iowa 6'3" 216 4.54

3. Mike Martin Michigan NT 6' 1 3/8" 36" vert 225 bench 36x

4a. Tommy Streeter WR Miami, Fla. 6'4" 215 4.40 vert 33"

4b. Ryan Broyles slot/PR OKLA 5'10" 192 4.46 (projected)

5. Winston Guy SS/FS/CB Kentucky 6'1"218

6. Randy Bullock K Texas A&M 5'9" 212 29/33 FG 55/57 extra pts.

7. Lonnie Edwards LG Texas Tech 6'4" 322

UDFAs: Chad Diehl FB CLemson 6'2" 257 one trick pony but exactly what's needed.
UDFAs: TBob Hebert (yeah that guy's son) LSU C/OG 6'3" 300 started 11 center 2010 and 5 OG 2011. Myer's replacement 2-3 yrs.
UDFA: at least one QB & a TE

:aggressive:
Click to expand...

I like it; if the Texans draft turns out this way i would be a happy fan.

Hightower- ILB is a need, and Hightower fills it. Good player at a good spot in the round.

McNutt- Not wild about the guy, but he should become a decent number 2 receiver. A safe pick, in my opinion. Wont be a "wow" guy, but at the end of the year you will look at how much he produced and will take notice.

Martin- LOVE IT!!!

Streeter- Boom or bust guy in my opinion. On one hand, he certainly looks the part. On the other, he is a bit of a one year wonder, and I do question his hands a bit.

Broyles- I like the player, but you are going pretty heavy on receivers. Get rid of Streeter and you have yourself a deal. That is not to say I would be unhappy here- I like the player. I just think 3 WR's is a bit excessive.

Guy- Nice pick.

Bullock- Nice pick

Edwards- this late we all have our pet players. I am not a fan, but what the heck, it is the 7th round.

Your UDFAs look solid as well.
 
rmartin65 said:
I like it; if the Texans draft turns out this way i would be a happy fan.

Hightower- ILB is a need, and Hightower fills it. Good player at a good spot in the round.

McNutt- Not wild about the guy, but he should become a decent number 2 receiver. A safe pick, in my opinion. Wont be a "wow" guy, but at the end of the year you will look at how much he produced and will take notice.

Martin- LOVE IT!!!

Streeter- Boom or bust guy in my opinion. On one hand, he certainly looks the part. On the other, he is a bit of a one year wonder, and I do question his hands a bit.

Broyles- I like the player, but you are going pretty heavy on receivers. Get rid of Streeter and you have yourself a deal. That is not to say I would be unhappy here- I like the player. I just think 3 WR's is a bit excessive.

Guy- Nice pick.

Bullock- Nice pick

Edwards- this late we all have our pet players. I am not a fan, but what the heck, it is the 7th round.

Your UDFAs look solid as well.
Click to expand...
I think Streeter in the fourth has more value than McNutt in the second.
In the second, you expect the guy to become a good number 2, at least.

In the fourth, if the guy has potential to become number one, you draft him for the ceiling; if he ends up becoming the 4th or 5th receiver on the team, it ain't no big deal.
 
76Texan said:
I think Streeter in the fourth has more value than McNutt in the second.
In the second, you expect the guy to become a good number 2, at least.

In the fourth, if the guy has potential to become number one, you draft him for the ceiling; if he ends up becoming the 4th or 5th receiver on the team, it ain't no big deal.
Click to expand...

But that is only if Streeter pans out. In my opinion, McNutt is a pretty safe bet to become a solid 2 receiver, worst case scenario he becomes a 3rd option kind of guy. Streeter could be good, but I think he busts in the pros. I would rather have a sure number two picked in the second than a 5th receiver picked in the 4th.
 
I like McNutt but I think you have him overrated by a round. Take him 3rd and get a better DL prospect than Martin. I like your later round selections better than the early ones. I agree about getting a kicker, get your man while you can. 6th round pick, it's worth it.
 
TimeKiller said:
I like McNutt but I think you have him overrated by a round. Take him 3rd and get a better DL prospect than Martin. I like your later round selections better than the early ones. I agree about getting a kicker, get your man while you can. 6th round pick, it's worth it.
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Your not alone by any means but just wonder why people are so down on Mike Martin?

I remember when Mitchell came out a couple years ago & I had him in the 5th round of my last mock in 2010, NFL DRAFT SCOUT had him ranked like 6-7th rd. yet Texans took him early in round 3 or about where badboy, rmartin65 & myself have Martin projected. Just what are we missing? Personally I've got him graded two rounds higher than Mitchell? He is a four year starter @ big football program Michigan, plays at a very consistant level & just dominated in the Senior Bowl against highly rated Ohio State rival Brewster. So please enlighten us with your insight in this matter :cool:
 
76Texan said:
I think Streeter in the fourth has more value than McNutt in the second.
In the second, you expect the guy to become a good number 2, at least.

In the fourth, if the guy has potential to become number one, you draft him for the ceiling; if he ends up becoming the 4th or 5th receiver on the team, it ain't no big deal.
Click to expand...

so what in your opinion was Jacoby Jones or is it no big deal?
 
beerlover said:
so what in your opinion was Jacoby Jones or is it no big deal?
Click to expand...

Jacoby was drafted before the middle of the third.
None of us knew much about him at the time.

As a third rounder, you expect a serviceable 2nd receiver, which he was.

The fact that I was probably the first one who raised concern about his small hands at his first TC (and his lack of focus from time to time in the years following) aside, Jacoby wasn't a bad deal, except the coaches also wanted to see him as a playmaker in special team. He gave them some, he took away some. I was among those who would rather not have him on special team despite the fact that he can give us some good return.

Personally, I had no clue as to how Jacoby would fare as a NFL prospect because I had no tape on him, so I didn't have an opinion on him as a prospect.
I only had an opinion on how the coaches wanted more value and tried to get more out of something that wasn't quite there.
 
76Texan said:
I think Streeter in the fourth has more value than McNutt in the second.
In the second, you expect the guy to become a good number 2, at least.

In the fourth, if the guy has potential to become number one, you draft him for the ceiling; if he ends up becoming the 4th or 5th receiver on the team, it ain't no big deal.
Click to expand...
Exactly my thinking. I did not begin focusing on McNutt until about mid-season but he just looks solid. AS 65 said, no "WOW" but I think WR2.Streeter could bust but nothing to indicate he will not repeat last season and with our offense...could be money in the bank. Isn't Hill the same as a boom or bust guy? Maehl or LeStar Jean could bust or boom also and we need something to hit for back end of corps. I'm willing to give Streeter until his second year to develop.
 
rmartin65 said:
But that is only if Streeter pans out. In my opinion, McNutt is a pretty safe bet to become a solid 2 receiver, worst case scenario he becomes a 3rd option kind of guy. Streeter could be good, but I think he busts in the pros. I would rather have a sure number two picked in the second than a 5th receiver picked in the 4th.
Click to expand...
best case both are good and we are set. :handshake:
 
TimeKiller said:
I like McNutt but I think you have him overrated by a round. Take him 3rd and get a better DL prospect than Martin. I like your later round selections better than the early ones. I agree about getting a kicker, get your man while you can. 6th round pick, it's worth it.
Click to expand...
I wanted better NT than Martin and changed him in and out but in end believed he is best. Chapman was who I was going with but the injury + a report his legs were not as strong as I thought in his anchor bothered me. I am not certain Chapman's lateral weakness was the ACL only. Martin is just so strong. I thought McNutt might be there in 3rd but is best WR avail in 2nd imo so could not lose him. Also, could not see using a 2nd for NTs as only Ta'Amu might drop to us in 2nd and rose seems to be off the bloom with his so so Senior Bowl. I thought he showed stamina but most critics panned his over all performance.
 
Looks like somebody has a WR fetish! :turtle: Don't totaly hate it but there are to many positions lacking in depth to spend 3 of our top 5 picks on any one position.
 
beerlover said:
Your not alone by any means but just wonder why people are so down on Mike Martin?

I remember when Mitchell came out a couple years ago & I had him in the 5th round of my last mock in 2010, NFL DRAFT SCOUT had him ranked like 6-7th rd. yet Texans took him early in round 3 or about where badboy, rmartin65 & myself have Martin projected. Just what are we missing? Personally I've got him graded two rounds higher than Mitchell? He is a four year starter @ big football program Michigan, plays at a very consistant level & just dominated in the Senior Bowl against highly rated Ohio State rival Brewster. So please enlighten us with your insight in this matter :cool:
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqCyK_Pl56s&feature=related
I guess you could call it a tie on Martin v. Brewster.

I could ask you what you see when you watch him playing, personally I see a guy who isn't explosive or creative enough to matter pass rushing and is easily blocked by the interior on run plays. He doesn't have the quicks or the instinct to keep up with ball carriers on the college level. It's one thing for a DT to not bring much pass rush, that's about the opposite of what Phillips wants but I'd say it's generally not a huge red flag. But a guy who doesn't pressure AND isn't a certified run plugger?

Nice combine numbers but usually we call them fellas "workout warriors".
 
mussop said:
Looks like somebody has a WR fetish! :turtle: Don't totaly hate it but there are to many positions lacking in depth to spend 3 of our top 5 picks on any one position.
Click to expand...
Ok let's discuss those positions but reviewed my pick explanation first.
 
Yaky said:
Ryan van Bergen had a very good game. 1 sack, 2 TFL, 1 Pass broken up, a few QB hits. He can bring the pressure from inside and outside. Really starting to like this guy.
Click to expand...

Martin and Van Bergen are both very underrated because of how bad Michigan was during the majority of their careers. People are finally starting to see the light with Martin, but RVB is still getting no love. Someone will be very happy with him if they snag him in the 5th-6th round.
 
TimeKiller said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqCyK_Pl56s&feature=related
I guess you could call it a tie on Martin v. Brewster.

I could ask you what you see when you watch him playing, personally I see a guy who isn't explosive or creative enough to matter pass rushing and is easily blocked by the interior on run plays. He doesn't have the quicks or the instinct to keep up with ball carriers on the college level. It's one thing for a DT to not bring much pass rush, that's about the opposite of what Phillips wants but I'd say it's generally not a huge red flag. But a guy who doesn't pressure AND isn't a certified run plugger?

Nice combine numbers but usually we call them fellas "workout warriors".
Click to expand...

thanks, man. Yes we do seem to differ quite a bit on Martin but that's alright it would be a boring world if everyone agreed all the time :handshake:

I see Mike as an undersized, quick as snot, run defender who's pesky style & hand to hand combat like wrestling skills serve him well. First he has a thick trunk, low built & close to ground build which helps him out leverage & get under blockers pads, thus winning most "in the phone booth" battles. Second, 64 tackles from interior linemen means he is pretty dang active in run support. 6 tackles for loss indicates he does get some penetration along with his 3.5 sacks Senior year, 10 sacks for his career @ Michigan. Third is his work ethic & non-stop motor which we see typifies a Wade Phillip defense.

In summary to find better & more immediate interior help it would require Texans to spend a higher pick. Which I have no problem with. But for the money & value as a third round pick ready to rotate inside as a rookie in the NFL I think he is a bargain here. :)
 
beerlover said:
thanks, man. Yes we do seem to differ quite a bit on Martin but that's alright it would be a boring world if everyone agreed all the time :handshake:

I see Mike as an undersized, quick as snot, run defender who's pesky style & hand to hand combat like wrestling skills serve him well. First he has a thick trunk, low built & close to ground build which helps him out leverage & get under blockers pads, thus winning most "in the phone booth" battles. Second, 64 tackles from interior linemen means he is pretty dang active in run support. 6 tackles for loss indicates he does get some penetration along with his 3.5 sacks Senior year, 10 sacks for his career @ Michigan. Third is his work ethic & non-stop motor which we see typifies a Wade Phillip defense.

In summary to find better & more immediate interior help it would require Texans to spend a higher pick. Which I have no problem with. But for the money & value as a third round pick ready to rotate inside as a rookie in the NFL I think he is a bargain here. :)
Click to expand...

Excellent write-up.
 
WolverineFan said:
Martin and Van Bergen are both very underrated because of how bad Michigan was during the majority of their careers. People are finally starting to see the light with Martin, but RVB is still getting no love. Someone will be very happy with him if they snag him in the 5th-6th round.
Click to expand...

Every time I watch Michigan Vanburgan stood out more than Martin to me.
 
mussop said:
Every time I watch Michigan Vanburgan stood out more than Martin to me.
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Van Bergen is no slouch, but Martin is still the superior player to me. Martin played NT last year and dealt with double teams every single play. It was his job to make sure other guys stood out. Still finished with 60+ tackles while playing the nose though.

Michigan changed to a 4-3 Under last year and RVB was playing the SDE (5' tech) which he is a perfect fit for. I think a 3-4 team will get a steal if they grab him late.
 
I'd rather keep Mike Martin in 3rd and use the second for another position. Big drop off in qualit of WR from second to third rounds imo.
 
Excellent draft. Would drop Streeter for another position as we are taking Broyles in the same round.

Let's not forget that Broyles was a heisman candidate before the injury this season and his other 3 years at OU were more than adequate. 4th round is decent value IMO. Stats below

games played - games started Receptions, yards, avg, tds
2008 13-8 46 687 14.9 6
2009 12-12 89 1,120 12.6 15
2010 14-14 131 1,622 12.4 14
2011 9-9 83 1,157 13.9 10
 
VTexan said:
Excellent draft. Would drop Streeter for another position as we are taking Broyles in the same round.

Let's not forget that Broyles was a heisman candidate before the injury this season and his other 3 years at OU were more than adequate. 4th round is decent value IMO. Stats below

games played - games started Receptions, yards, avg, tds
2008 13-8 46 687 14.9 6
2009 12-12 89 1,120 12.6 15
2010 14-14 131 1,622 12.4 14
2011 9-9 83 1,157 13.9 10
Click to expand...
Players for two different spots. Broyles is perfect slot & Streeter is eventual AJ replacement. McNutt replaces JJ this season & is a safe solid #2. We have to rectify WR.
 
I live in Big 10 country, and have watched Martin a couple of times a year the last 4 years. He is the last thing from a workout warrior.
 
rmartin65 said:
I live in Big 10 country, and have watched Martin a couple of times a year the last 4 years. He is the last thing from a workout warrior.
Click to expand...

:thinking: Maybe I'm over thinking this, but are you implying he's lazy, or that he has more to offer as a player than just his numbers from the Combine?
 
Insideop said:
:thinking: Maybe I'm over thinking this, but are you implying he's lazy, or that he has more to offer as a player than just his numbers from the Combine?
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As well as I know my mock partner, I think I can speak for 65 here. It was implied that Martin was a gym rat work out guy only. RMartin65 was saying the opposite is true. Martin is a solid base very strong guy who can hold his ground and his sacks indicate he can disrupt the QB. He is also a college wrestler which helps.
 
Insideop said:
:thinking: Maybe I'm over thinking this, but are you implying he's lazy, or that he has more to offer as a player than just his numbers from the Combine?
Click to expand...

badboy said:
As well as I know my mock partner, I think I can speak for 65 here. It was implied that Martin was a gym rat work out guy only. RMartin65 was saying the opposite is true. Martin is a solid base very strong guy who can hold his ground and his sacks indicate he can disrupt the QB. He is also a college wrestler which helps.
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Thanks badboy.

The term workout warrior implies a player does not bring the goods on the field, and instead impresses only in shorts. Martin, while boasting impressive combine numbers, has also proven on the field that he can play.
 
VTexan said:
Excellent draft. Would drop Streeter for another position as we are taking Broyles in the same round.

Let's not forget that Broyles was a heisman candidate before the injury this season and his other 3 years at OU were more than adequate. 4th round is decent value IMO. Stats below

games played - games started Receptions, yards, avg, tds
2008 13-8 46 687 14.9 6
2009 12-12 89 1,120 12.6 15
2010 14-14 131 1,622 12.4 14
2011 9-9 83 1,157 13.9 10
Click to expand...
Man, Mayock crunched Streeter in yesterday's comments on ESPN. Said he can run only straight ahead and no routes. Most of his yardage was long sideline catches over defenders. Then he said he had him in the fourth round. Snicker, me too.
 
beerlover said:
thanks, man. Yes we do seem to differ quite a bit on Martin but that's alright it would be a boring world if everyone agreed all the time :handshake:

I see Mike as an undersized, quick as snot, run defender who's pesky style & hand to hand combat like wrestling skills serve him well. First he has a thick trunk, low built & close to ground build which helps him out leverage & get under blockers pads, thus winning most "in the phone booth" battles. Second, 64 tackles from interior linemen means he is pretty dang active in run support. 6 tackles for loss indicates he does get some penetration along with his 3.5 sacks Senior year, 10 sacks for his career @ Michigan. Third is his work ethic & non-stop motor which we see typifies a Wade Phillip defense.

In summary to find better & more immediate interior help it would require Texans to spend a higher pick. Which I have no problem with. But for the money & value as a third round pick ready to rotate inside as a rookie in the NFL I think he is a bargain here. :)
Click to expand...

I can respect that, though I would like to point out that 60+ tackles don't tell you WHERE those tackles were made. Total tackle numbers IMO are always skewed as making a tackle doesn't always imply a win for the defense. I could be wrong, I believe I looked at it a few months ago when Martin started his climb up the ranks around here, Michigan isn't a highly regarded defensive team, especially against the run. I'm going to have to check that later though, I'll see what I can find.

rmartin65 said:
I live in Big 10 country, and have watched Martin a couple of times a year the last 4 years. He is the last thing from a workout warrior.
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Maybe that's too harsh but he IS completely maxed out and only at 3 bills. Personally, just me, IMO, etc. I think y'all have him overrated by a round or two. If he really was the complete package y'all have him pegged for, shouldn't he be going 2nd round at the latest?
 
badboy said:
Man, Mayock crunched Streeter in yesterday's comments on ESPN. Said he can run only straight ahead and no routes. Most of his yardage was long sideline catches over defenders. Then he said he had him in the fourth round. Snicker, me too.
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Has anybody's draft stock taken more of a hit than Streeter's?
 
TimeKiller said:
Maybe that's too harsh but he IS completely maxed out and only at 3 bills. Personally, just me, IMO, etc. I think y'all have him overrated by a round or two. If he really was the complete package y'all have him pegged for, shouldn't he be going 2nd round at the latest?
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I think you answered your own question- Michigan's D was not great, and he is maxed out size-wise at 305 lbs. And I dont think anybody is saying the guy will be a HOFer or All-Pro, just that we think he can be an above average NT for the Texans' 3-4.

Anything more than that is gravy.
 
badboy said:
Man, Mayock crunched Streeter in yesterday's comments on ESPN. Said he can run only straight ahead and no routes. Most of his yardage was long sideline catches over defenders. Then he said he had him in the fourth round. Snicker, me too.
Click to expand...

Mayock needs to put in more tapes to watch!
icon7.gif
 
badboy said:
Man, Mayock crunched Streeter in yesterday's comments on ESPN. Said he can run only straight ahead and no routes. Most of his yardage was long sideline catches over defenders. Then he said he had him in the fourth round. Snicker, me too.
Click to expand...

Streeter is not Desean Jackson with the lateral agility to match the straight line speed, but Streeter can and does run other routes well besides 9's.
 
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