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James Harrison's illegal helmet to helmet hit on Colt McCoy

Considering Antonio got fined for touching Matt Ryan's helmet, Harrison could get suspended for his past history.
 
JWarren14 said:
Considering Antonio got fined for touching Matt Ryan's helmet, Harrison could get suspended for his past history.
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Nah. I agree with part of the article. They'll fine him, he'll ***** about it, his coaches and team will support him, then everyone will move on.
 
Probably a fine, but some these fines and suspensions are laughable, and I don't think they'll take them out of the game so I am working on not getting upset about it.

I read somewhere that there is a gray area of the rule in terms of the QB trying to advance the ball as a runner he is fair game. So who knows, he might not even receive a fine at all.

Credit McCoy for coming back in a few plays later, that's a pretty tough hit to take directly to the dome. He said he didn't even remember the hit.
 
Dread-Head said:
Nah. I agree with part of the article. They'll fine him, he'll ***** about it, his coaches and team will support him, then everyone will move on.
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I don't know. Past history makes a difference and Harrison has pretty significant history. I think the league leaders in Personal Foul penalties over the past few years are Harrison, Suh, and Dunta. So, Harrison leading with his head could equate to a 1 game suspension.
 
JWarren14 said:
Probably a fine, but some these fines and suspensions are laughable, and I don't think they'll take them out of the game so I am working on not getting upset about it.

I read somewhere that there is a gray area of the rule in terms of the QB trying to advance the ball as a runner he is fair game. So who knows, he might not even receive a fine at all.

Credit McCoy for coming back in a few plays later, that's a pretty tough hit to take directly to the dome. He said he didn't even remember the hit.
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If that is true then its possible that McCoy suffered a mild concussion if he doesn't remember the hit. I don't credit McCoy one bit for coming back in and I wish the team had held him out. Head injuries are serious business and not taking proper precautions can cut a career and in some cases a life short. Young football players who sustain similar injuries see pros shrugging off head injuries as if they are nothing more than a cut is asking for trouble.

The NFL needs to get serious about head injuries ASAP.
 
JWarren14 said:
Probably a fine, but some these fines and suspensions are laughable, and I don't think they'll take them out of the game so I am working on not getting upset about it.

I read somewhere that there is a gray area of the rule in terms of the QB trying to advance the ball as a runner he is fair game. So who knows, he might not even receive a fine at all.
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He lead with his helmet .... clearly a violation of the rules no matter who he was hitting.
 
Corrosion said:
He lead with his helmet .... clearly a violation of the rules no matter who he was hitting.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/sports/football/24helmets.html

Indeed, despite the league’s controversial threats last month to suspend players for helmet-to-helmet tackles, and four years into revelations of the short- and long-term consequences of football brain trauma, almost every head-on-head collision remains not just condoned but also part of the sport. N.F.L. rules forbid such hits essentially against only quarterbacks or defenseless players, like a receiver making a catch; all others are fair game.
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Old article, but basically you cant hit a thrower, or pass catcher. All others are fair game.
 
JWarren14 said:
Credit McCoy for coming back in a few plays later, that's a pretty tough hit to take directly to the dome. He said he didn't even remember the hit.
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I'm thinking there's nothing about this that warrants crediting anyone involved.

Browns quarterback Colt McCoy's father, Brad, said today that Colt doesn't remember anything after taking a vicious helmet to helmet hit from Steelers linebacker James Harrison and that he never should've gone back in the game.

Brad McCoy, a lifelong high school football coach who coached Colt all through junior high and high school, said McCoy doesn't remember throwing the interception in the end zone three plays after he jogged back onto the field after missing two plays following the hit. The pick essentially cost the Browns the game and they lost 14-3.
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LINK
 
Dread-Head said:
What pray tell is the diff between college ball and the pros?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/sh...arrison-flagged-for-vicious-h?urn=nfl-wp13494


...This. Call it a "dirty" hit if you want, but when a QB leaves the pocket, that's the risk he takes.
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A QB can't leave the pocket and stay behind the LOS as a passer? :confused: It's the passer that's protected ya know.

Harrison has a rep for this.

The ball had clearly left McCoy's hand and Harrison led with his helmet, and made helmet to helmet contact. It was a dirty hit, I hope gets suspended for MULTIPLE games. He's a dirty Muff Hugga!
 
ChampionTexan said:
I'm thinking there's nothing about this that warrants crediting anyone involved.



LINK
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Yeah I saw that after I posted earlier. I thought McCoy was showing some toughness, but now it looks like the Browns organization may have handled the whole situation the wrong way. Fines should be sent down to those who are supposed to go through the process implemented for players who are showing concussion like symptoms.
 
Dread-Head said:
Nah. I agree with part of the article. They'll fine him, he'll ***** about it, his coaches and team will support him, then everyone will move on.
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He is from another era. Basically he's a modern version of Jack Tatum to me. He really doesn't care if he cripples someone on the field.
 
And what's up with the title Dread. Colt is in his second year and has been hit hard plenty times before this. I don't get it.
 
I really don't think helmet-to-helmet collisions would be all that bad if they would just use hard foam helmets instead. The tough plastic used makes the hits much more strong and are more likely to cause concussions. I know foam wouldn't look as cool, but at least players wouldn't get hurt as much.
 
JWarren14 said:
Yeah I saw that after I posted earlier. I thought McCoy was showing some toughness, but now it looks like the Browns organization may have handled the whole situation the wrong way. Fines should be sent down to those who are supposed to go through the process implemented for players who are showing concussion like symptoms.
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Yeah. If you are gonna fine players for hits that cause concussions, then you have to fine medical staffs for allowing a player to re-enter the game with a concussion. Just let Seneca finish the game. Its not like you are going anywhere this year. ****!
 
Doppelganger said:
If that is true then its possible that McCoy suffered a mild concussion if he doesn't remember the hit. I don't credit McCoy one bit for coming back in and I wish the team had held him out. Head injuries are serious business and not taking proper precautions can cut a career and in some cases a life short. Young football players who sustain similar injuries see pros shrugging off head injuries as if they are nothing more than a cut is asking for trouble.

The NFL needs to get serious about head injuries ASAP.
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You're not the only one. His dad was/is pretty upset about it.

"He never should've gone back in the game," Brad told the paper. "He was basically out (cold) after the hit. You could tell by the rigidity of his body as he was laying there. There were a lot of easy symptoms that should've told them he had a concussion. He was nauseated and he didn't know who he was. From what I could see, they didn't test him for a concussion on the sidelines. They looked at his (left) hand."

Brad then pointed out the brief nature of Colt's postgame press conference.

"After the game, the (public relations staff) made sure Colt's interview was brief and he couldn't face the lights in his press conference,'' said Brad. "The TV lights and the Stadium lights were killing him. Why would you say he was fine? That makes it even worse."
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Super Mario said:
Yeah. If you are gonna fine players for hits that cause concussions, then you have to fine medical staffs for allowing a player to re-enter the game with a concussion. Just let Seneca finish the game. Its not like you are going anywhere this year. ****!
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The NFL has made a joke out of safety issues. They are followed when "convenient" only. They are ignored without consequences.

I'm not Colt's father, but I would be saying the same things:

Colt McCoy’s father blasts Browns for letting Colt play after blow to head
Posted by Mike Florio on December 9, 2011, 12:51 PM EST


Archie Manning isn’t the only NFL dad who’s speaking up this week.

Brad McCoy, the father of Browns quarterback Colt McCoy, has teed off on the team for allowing Colt to return to last night’s game two plays after suffering an apparent concussion.

“He never should’ve gone back in the game,” Brad McCoy told Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. “He was basically out [cold] after the hit. You could tell by the ridigity of his body as he laying there. There were a lot of easy symptoms that should’ve told them he had a concussion. He was nauseated and he didn’t know who he was. From what I could see, they didn’t test him for a concussion on the sidelines. They looked at his
hand.”

Brad McCoy also echoed something that Will Burge of ESPN 850 in Cleveland reported last night - that Colt McCoy was experiencing sensitivity to light.

“After the game, the [public relations staff] made sure Colt’s interview was brief and he couldn’t face the lights in his press conference,” Brad McCoy said. “The TV lights and the stadium lights were killing him. Why would you say he was fine? That makes it even worse.”

It’s unknown whether and to what extent Colt McCoy was tested for a concussion. (We’ve submitted a list of questions to the team on this point.) Brad McCoy thinks his son wasn’t properly evaluated.

“Josh Cribbs suffered a groin injury earlier in the game and he was out for the rest of the game,” Brad McCoy said. “Colt takes a severe hit like that and he’s back in the game a play later? If he took another blow to the head, we could’ve been talking about his career here.”

Here’s hoping that the media continues to push this issue, that the league fully investigates, and that the situation causes the league to once and for all implement meaningful procedures to ensure that players are properly evaluated after absorbing obviously violent blows to the head.

Let’s also hope the Browns don’t hold Brad McCoy’s comments against Colt, especially as the Browns try to decide what to do at quarterback in 2012.

I’m more hopeful about the first thing I’m hopeful about.​
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​
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The NFL has made a joke out of safety issues. They are followed when "convenient" only. They are ignored without consequences.

I'm not Colt's father, but I would be saying the same things:
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Well, considering that on his one passing play, Seneca Wallace threw a pretty crisp pass for a 13 yard completion, and Colt threw two interceptions and almost a third (overturned by replay) after he returned, I would say the entire Cleveland sideline was brain impaired in numerous ways last night.
 
Hardcore Texan said:
Well, I haven't taken the time to research every hit that has been put on Colt to see if any of them are equal to the dirty SOB that is Harrison and his illegal hit, so I will have to take your word for it.

He certainly has had taken a LOT of hard hits that I have seen.....




What did you change? *edit - when I replied I saw the difference.
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He changed the title of the thread...
 
Dread-Head said:
...You used to be cool...what happened to you?

:kitten:


just kiddin'
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LOL ... I like Colt. He doesn't have all of the annoying worshippers running around Austin making excuses for everything he does. Now if it would have been that guy maybe I would have let it slide. ;)
 
Harrison disregards the rules. There's no other way to see it. The QB did not flinch down, Harrison clearly intended to take him out.

He could have easily wrapped up the QB instead of spearing him helmet first. We see Cushing wrap up ball carriers every week with good form. Same force of impact, but one is dirty about it and the other is good fundamental technique.

I hope Goodell throws the freakin' book at him for his blatant disrespect of the league's intentions in enforcing helmet-to-helmet hits.

I love it if his suspension costs them games and their division title.
 
Double Barrel said:
Harrison disregards the rules. There's no other way to see it. The QB did not flinch down, Harrison clearly intended to take him out.

He could have easily wrapped up the QB instead of spearing him helmet first. We see Cushing wrap up ball carriers every week with good form. Same force of impact, but one is dirty about it and the other is good fundamental technique.

I hope Goodell throws the freakin' book at him for his blatant disrespect of the league's intentions in enforcing helmet-to-helmet hits.

I love it if his suspension costs them games and their division title.
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Me too. Did you notice how much time he had to avoid the illegal AFTER the ball was thrown. He had at least one full step and he STILL launch into the helmet with his. No way around it, the guy is dirty.
 
Hardcore Texan said:
Me too. Did you notice how much time he had to avoid the illegal AFTER the ball was thrown. He had at least one full step and he STILL launch into the helmet with his. No way around it, the guy is dirty.
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No doubt about it in my mind.

I love aggressive play. We see it in Cushing on every play. But, there is a line that gets crossed when aggressive play disregards sound fundamentals in favor of cheap shots. Cushing wraps dudes up. His arms are out and his intention is to take the ball carrier down. He's every bit as aggressive as Harrison, but he does it the right way. Ray Lewis is the same way. These guys prove that it can be done.

Harrison knows better, but doesn't care. I think Goodell is going to make him a poster boy for that kind of blatant disrespect.
 
I didn't think it was really all that dirty of a hit, to be honest. Colt left the pocket, tucked the ball and began to run. That makes him no different than a RB, imo. He had every intension of running the ball until the last second. You could argue whether Harrison had enough time to lift, but imo, he was open game.

Another incident proving these rules are getting out of hand
 
HOU-TEX said:
I didn't think it was really all that dirty of a hit, to be honest. Colt left the pocket, tucked the ball and began to run. That makes him no different than a RB, imo. He had every intension of running the ball until the last second. You could argue whether Harrison had enough time to lift, but imo, he was open game.

Another incident proving these rules are getting out of hand
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If there was an effort to lift there could be an argument. Instead it is clear Harrison had no intent to lift and in fact positioned for the helmet on helmet hit.
 
Look where Harrison's hands are at when he makes contact. No intention to tackle the QB. His intention is clear. Folded arms push the QB up and his helmet slams in hard.

If his intention was to tackle, his arms would have been out to wrap up the QB for a tackle. If helmet-to-helmet was incidental at that point, I could see it.

This is a typical ESPN "Jacked Up!" highlight hit. Nothing fundamentally sound about it.

Enforcing existing rules is not ruining the NFL. Highlight reels are ruining the sport, just like dunks in the NBA and homerun-friendly rules in MLB. Some players are all about getting themselves glossed.

I think it's a cop-out to say it's ruining the sport when you see solid, legal hits by the dozens every week. Just watch a Cushing highlight reel. Dudes are still getting hit hard and the league is not trying to change that aspect of the game.
 
infantrycak said:
If there was an effort to lift there could be an argument. Instead it is clear Harrison had no intent to lift and in fact positioned for the helmet on helmet hit.
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Not only that, if Colt's head would have dropped just a little, I'd say Harrison might have an argument, but Colt's head moved up if anything. Looks like he clearly targeted Colts head.

To me, it doesn't matter if it's a running back, WR, QB, DL, if you intentionally put the top of your helmet into another player's helmet, that's dirty.
 
Double Barrel said:
I think it's a cop-out to say it's ruining the sport when you see solid, legal hits by the dozens every week. Just watch a Cushing highlight reel. Dudes are still getting hit hard and the league is not trying to change that aspect of the game.
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Yup. Cushing, Quinn, Jackson and company have been laying bone jarring hits during this win streak. The kind where the impact is so loud the stadium goes ooooh after the hit. Telling people to follow the rules isn't wussifying the sport.
 
infantrycak said:
Yup. Cushing, Quinn, Jackson and company have been laying bone jarring hits during this win streak. The kind where the impact is so loud the stadium goes ooooh after the hit. Telling people to follow the rules isn't wussifying the sport.
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Exactly. I have actually stopped the DVR to rewind to show my son how it's done. We even watch some of those tackles several times, and dudes are getting the snot knocked out of them and it's all legal and sound.

I think it's made my boy want to play defense, too. He said he'd rather hit than be hit, even though he loves catching the ball. He's leaning toward CB. :D
 
infantrycak said:
Yup. Cushing, Quinn, Jackson and company have been laying bone jarring hits during this win streak. The kind where the impact is so loud the stadium goes ooooh after the hit. Telling people to follow the rules isn't wussifying the sport.
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Abraham's hit on the kid was one of those.

Perfectly legal

& I can say unequivocally, the kid ain't no wuss.
 
None of these dudes show any tackling fundamentals except for maybe ray lewis & Patrick Willis & at times even they throw their body around with no effort to wrap up. For that reason, in really unconcerned where Harrison's arms were at the time of his hit on Colt.

I don't think it was intentional though; Harrison even apologized to McCoy mid game a few plays later.

Lance brought it up this morning but this is always what i've thought was the case with Harrison. He's just one of those rare guys that can get more power into his hits than the average player 1: b/c he's shorter thereby always having the advantage leverage wise...& 2, he's built like a frickin tank.

But b/c of his reputation & past history, every time that guy lays someone out, there will always be that question of whether or not it was a dirty hit or not.

Furthermore Colt was a ball carrier at that moment & since these guys normally can't be touched, i'm sure he like all other in-the-box players were licking their chops.
 
I don't have a problem with the hit other than it's against the rules.

For a long time you were taught to lead with your helmet. Didn't matter if you hit another player in their helmet or not. Rb's often lower their heads and make helmet to helmet contact defenders.

The block that Casey put on that falcons lb was a violent helmet to helmet collision because that's how you were taught for the longest time. Put the two screws on your helmet on the opponent and your arms follow.

BUT that's against the rules in the NFL now. They talked about it during the broadcast this past game about coaches changing the aiming points of guys. Now instead of using your helmet you use your shoulder pad.

Years ago harrison's hit wouldnt have been called dirty, but times have changed and Harrison is doing a poor job of adjusting to the changes.

For that, yes, he should be fined and suspended because he is intentionally disobeying the rules which I guess in itself is technically dirty. Jmo.
 
Rey said:
Years ago harrison's hit wouldnt have been called dirty, but times have changed and Harrison is doing a poor job of adjusting to the changes.

For that, yes, he should be fined and suspended because he is intentionally disobeying the rules which I guess in itself is technically dirty. Jmo.
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Crux.... that's it right there.
 
HOU-TEX said:
I didn't think it was really all that dirty of a hit, to be honest. Colt left the pocket, tucked the ball and began to run. That makes him no different than a RB, imo. He had every intension of running the ball until the last second. You could argue whether Harrison had enough time to lift, but imo, he was open game.

Another incident proving these rules are getting out of hand
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I usually agree with your football takes and value you're opinion, but in this instance I disagree all the way around. The ball was clearly gone, he led with his helmet, I think it's a penalty regardless even if he tucked and ran before he threw.

I think DB and ThunderKyss nailed it above. JMO
 
Hardcore Texan said:
I usually agree with your football takes and value you're opinion, but in this instance I disagree all the way around. The ball was clearly gone, he led with his helmet, I think it's a penalty regardless even if he tucked and ran before he threw.

I think DB and ThunderKyss nailed it above. JMO
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Just to clarify, I think Harrison's an asswipe and a dirty player. I really can care less about him as a player.

I obviously need to go back and look at the hit again. Especially when members I highly respect are calling me out. Ha

The primary point I really wanted to make was once the QB leaves the pocket to run he becomes fair game. Shouldn't the QB be treated like a RB if he chooses to leave the pocket?
 
HOU-TEX said:
Just to clarify, I think Harrison's an asswipe and a dirty player. I really can care less about him as a player.

I obviously need to go back and look at the hit again. Especially when members I highly respect are calling me out. Ha

The primary point I really wanted to make was once the QB leaves the pocket to run he becomes fair game. Shouldn't the QB be treated like a RB if he chooses to leave the pocket?
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I think he should be treated like any other ball carrier. I know the NFL protects it's "marquee" players, but it should not be that way. Money talks, though, as we all know.
 
NFL Rulebook, Rule 12, Section 2, Article 8

Impermissible use of the helmet and facemask

(f) If a player uses any part of his helmet (including the top/crown and forehead/”hairline” parts) or facemask to butt, spear, or ram an opponent violently or unnecessarily. Although such violent or unnecessary use of the helmet and facemask is impermissible against ANYopponent, game officials will give special attention in administering this rule to protecting those players who are in virtually defenseless postures, including but not limited to:

(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; or

(2) Lowering the head and violently or unnecessarily making forcible contact with the “hairline” or forehead part of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body; or

(3) “Launching” (springing forward and upward) into a defenseless player, or otherwise striking him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet or facemask to forcibly strike the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet or facemask is lower than the defenseless player’s neck. (Examples: a defender buries his facemask into a defenseless player’s high chest area, but the defender’s trajectory as he leaps into the defenseless player causes the defender’s helmet to strike the defenseless player violently in the head or face; or a defender, using a face-on posture or with his head slightly lowered, hits a defenseless player in an area below the defenseless player’s neck, then the defender’s head moves upward, resulting in strong contact by the defender’s mask or helmet with the defenseless player’s head, neck, or face [an example is the so-called “dip and rip” technique]).

Note: The provisions of section (f) do not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or noncrown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on an opponent.

(g) if the initial force of the contact by a defender’s helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of a defenseless player.

Note: Defenseless players in (f) and (g) shall include (i) a player in the act of or just after throwing a pass; (ii) a receiver catching or attempting to catch a pass; (iii) a runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped; (iv) a kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air; and (v) a player on the ground at the end of a play.

h) If a receiver has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself, a defensive player is prohibited from launching (springing forward and upward) into him in a way that causes the defensive player’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm to forcibly strike the receiver’s head or neck area—even if the initial contact of the defender’s helmet, facemask, shoulder, or forearm is lower than the receiver’s neck.

Note: Launching is defined as springing forward and upward by a player who leaves his feet to make contact on the receiver.

(i) a kicker/punter, who is standing still or fading backwards after the ball has been kicked, is out of the play and must not be unnecessarily contacted by the receiving team through the end of the play or until he assumes a distinctly defensive position. During the kick or during the return, if the initial force of the contact by a defender’s helmet (including facemask), forearm, or shoulder is to the head or neck area of the kicker/punter, it is a foul.

(j) any player who grabs a helmet opening of an opponent and forcibly twists, turns, or pulls his head.

(k) Illegal contact with the helmet against the knee of the snapper during an attempt for a field goal or kick try.

Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant.
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HOU-TEX said:
Just to clarify, I think Harrison's an asswipe and a dirty player. I really can care less about him as a player.

I obviously need to go back and look at the hit again. Especially when members I highly respect are calling me out. Ha

The primary point I really wanted to make was once the QB leaves the pocket to run he becomes fair game. Shouldn't the QB be treated like a RB if he chooses to leave the pocket?
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I agree once the QB scrambles he becomes a ball carrier and it's no different then say a half back pass or the like. However, I still feel it was a dirty hit because the ball was clearly thrown, he took one more full step and still led with his helmet and appeared to even explode through him leading with his helmet straight to the head of the ball carrier/passer. Had he buried his head in his chest and wrapped him up, I wouldn't have a problem with it even being a tad after the ball was gone.
 
DIRTY-HIT-HARRISON.gif
 
The ball is already gone in that picture. Colt's hand is already down by his side after the throw, the ball is long gone. And Harrison still takes a step and goes helmet to helmet.
 
I'm a huge opponent of the pussification of the NFL and all the ticky tack helmet to helmet calls where flags and fines start flying at even the slightest brush.

Harrison has gone too far too many times though.

He is not looking to lay a good hit and just happens to hit the other guy in the head. Harrison goes out there looking to hurt people and intentionally tries to hit helmet to helmet. I'm one of his biggest fans but when you walk onto the football field looking for an opportunity to hurt/injure people you are dirty and I don't even think you can make an argument that Harrison isn't.

Lay the wood, blast guys out of their shoes, etc. Just have some class and respect for your opponent.
 
Goatcheese said:
I'm a huge opponent of the pussification of the NFL and all the ticky tack helmet to helmet calls where flags and fines start flying at even the slightest brush.

Harrison has gone too far too many times though.

He is not looking to lay a good hit and just happens to hit the other guy in the head. Harrison goes out there looking to hurt people and intentionally tries to hit helmet to helmet. I'm one of his biggest fans but when you walk onto the football field looking for an opportunity to hurt/injure people you are dirty and I don't even think you can make an argument that Harrison isn't.

Lay the wood, blast guys out of their shoes, etc. Just have some class and respect for your opponent.
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What ever happened with this? Did he get a fine or a suspension? I am too lazy to look it up for myself.
 
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