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Our Running Game........

CloakNNNdagger

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
..........was scary. Foster fumbles twice and besides his 43 yd run, he averages 1 ypc for the other 21 carries. Tate has only 5 carries and logs 26 yds........and then disappears.

I can understand the hesitancy to let a rookie loose. Although it may also be somewhat scary to do so............if we don't show a better effective balance of pass plays, our running game is likely to continue looking a lot different than we have been used to..........and as effective as what we saw this week.
 
We can't have an offense where the QB is almost never given the option to throw the ball much farther than the LOS. I understand that todays events took the Texans out of their plans but if they aren't ready to let Yates throw more next week and in the weeks that follow then they need to find someone they will throw with because if all we do is run then we aren't going to win again this year.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
..........was scary. Foster fumbles twice and besides his 43 yd run, he averages 1 ypc for the other 21 carries. Tate has only 5 carries and logs 26 yds........and then disappears.

I can understand the hesitancy to let a rookie loose. Although it may also be somewhat scary to do so............if we don't show a better balance of pass plays, our running game is likely to continue looking a lot different than we have been used to..........and as effective as what we saw this week.
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I think we were so conservative because we had a lead and Jax's is BAD and our D was playing well. I hope we open it up a bit more next week
 
Hervoyel said:
We can't have an offense where the QB is almost never given the option to throw the ball much farther than the LOS. I understand that todays events took the Texans out of their plans but if they aren't ready to let Yates throw more next week and in the weeks that follow then they need to find someone they will throw with because if all we do is run then we aren't going to win again this year.
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This. Can not just go into turtle mode like they did today.
 
otisbean said:
I think we were so conservative because we had a lead and Jax's is BAD and our D was playing well. I hope we open it up a bit more next week
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Look at New England man, every game whether they are up by 14-30 they continue to throw it and try to score points.
 
Look at Green Bay, everyone keeps throwing on them and they have 22 Ints.--part of why they are 11-0. :gun:
 
mariowillshine15 said:
They have one of the greatest QBs ever pulling the trigger. Easier decision.
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This^^^. TOs were the only way Jax were going to get back in the game. With a rookie 3rd stringer in, I understand the logic of going conservative to preserve the win TODAY.

I do agree though that we have to open it up starting next week. TJ looked good on his first series in the game, hopefully it's a sign of things to come.
 
I think it really just comes down to the fact hat Kubiak knew a 10 point lead would do it against Jax. Their O can't score on us, but their D can...

There are 2 times when you can just almost always run on 1st and 2nd down:

1. A D that can't stop it, like Indy.

2. An opposing O that can't score, like Jax right now, provided you already have a lead.

Obviously, this game met one of those scenarios. We really don't know how much rope Kubiak will or won't give Yuts (hehe) in a different situation, we just have to hope that Yetties doesn't hang himself with it.

Here's to Yotes! :fans:
 
otisbean said:
This^^^. TOs were the only way Jax were going to get back in the game. With a rookie 3rd stringer in, I understand the logic of going conservative to preserve the win TODAY.

I do agree though that we have to open it up starting next week. TJ looked good on his first series in the game, hopefully it's a sign of things to come.
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If we try the same game plan against Atlanta, or any decent team for that matter, they will stack 8 or 9 in the box........and effectively tear us a new one.
 
The Jaguars had a very good defensive game plan against us. They never over-pursued and allowed any cutback lanes. They're used to our zone blocking scheme and played disciplined football today. Every time Arian tried to put a foot in the ground to cut back he was cutting back right into a defender. They did a good job on us today.
 
This is going to be something the Texans are going to have to deal with the rest of the season. Even if Leinart was healthy, teams were going to stack the LOS against us and make the QB beat them. Kubiak and crew have to come up with creative ways to loosen up the defense. That may mean more short dump passes to Foster and Tate. It could also mean more 4 receiver sets running crossing patterns and such, which will allow the playmakers to get their hands on the ball and make something happen. It's tough and I don't envy Kubiak's position, but they have to come up with solutions to ease the pressure off of Yates or whoever is the QB next week.
 
Texn4life said:
The Jaguars had a very good defensive game plan against us. They never over-pursued and allowed any cutback lanes. They're used to our zone blocking scheme and played disciplined football today. Every time Arian tried to put a foot in the ground to cut back he was cutting back right into a defender. They did a good job on us today.
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This is exactly why they needed to play Tate more today, and I'm mystified as to why Kubiak doesn't see this. Tate has a tendency to keep his runs front side, while Foster is much more likely to look for a cutback lane. Mix it up and wear out the Jags D.
 
eriadoc said:
This is exactly why they needed to play Tate more today, and I'm mystified as to why Kubiak doesn't see this. Tate has a tendency to keep his runs front side, while Foster is much more likely to look for a cutback lane. Mix it up and wear out the Jags D.
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Agreed. I was surprised to find them not running Tate & Foster in and out all day. Sometimes you can shred them with Foster cutting back and juking people out of their cleats, other times Tate does better smacking them in the face with a shoulder pad and busting through to daylight. Today Tate could have had a hundred yards I suspect if he'd had the carries.

_____
Edit: Meant Tate could have had a hundred yards if he'd had the carries.
 
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eriadoc said:
This is exactly why they needed to play Tate more today, and I'm mystified as to why Kubiak doesn't see this. Tate has a tendency to keep his runs front side, while Foster is much more likely to look for a cutback lane. Mix it up and wear out the Jags D.
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I had a thread about running back balance weeks ago against Jacksonville when Foster had 33 and Tate only had 5. Trust me I saw it way back then. You have 2 dynamic backs for a reason. Use them you dummy!
 
i liked dang near every playcall kubiak made today, he appeared to make it fairly easy on his quarterbacks. the one flaw (and a major one) was playing foster over tate. foster was just plain off today, while tate obviously matched up better. it happens more often than i like that kubiak forces foster when it's seemingly obvious that tate has the hot hand.
 
I remember playing the Redskins last year, early in the season.

Kyle Shanahan had Donovan McNabb doing 3-step drops on every pass play the entire first half. The result was quick slants, quick outs, little crossing patterns, and it got the ball into the hands of the Redskins WRs and TEs and RBs.

That's what you do, to get a QB some confidence and to slow down a pass rush, and you mix in the run. The Redskins got away from that formula in the second half...trying to run the ball with Portis...and it cost them the win.

This is a time to use 4 WR and even motion out the RB and use 5 WR sets, like someone mentioned. 3-step drop, which prevents the pass rush from effectively getting to the QB. An excellent plan for a guy like Yaits, IMO.

There is a way to overcome problems, but I fear Kubiak's solutions have always been to rely on playmakers to make plays rather than crafting a solid, exploitive game plan that actually works.

It took us the Raiders game to figure out how to play without Andre Johnson. It will likely take us this game, and maybe the Atlanta game, to figure out how to play without Schaub. We sure as hell were not ready to put Yaytes into the game in place of Leinart.
 
TexanFan881 said:
I had been saying this for the past two weeks...with no passing game why not stack the box???
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This^

That is how the Texans can be beat. Here on out the opposing teams are going to stack the box and make us throw on them to win. We need a passing game or our offense is going to go down the tubes.

We don't need a HOF quarterback to be starting - we just need someone to be competent and minimize the errors. I look around the league, and we need a Flacco/Sanchez/Romo type of quarterback. You look at those three stooges that are franchise qbs but on the verge of just being starting qbs with their teams quietly wondering if they are the answer to take them to the Superbowl. They are just marginally average, nothing special, but just have a complete team around them. Flacco has proven he cannot handle putting the team on his back - see the three loses. Sanchez is up and down, and Romo self destructs. And at the end of the day, would dont need someone that good to run our offense.

That's why I am still optimistic that if Yates can just be OK, not good, just OK we can get the running game re-established along with the play action and win a playoff game.
 
We've seen several times this year how important a balanced attack is to our offense. The running games works because of the threat of a good passing attack and vice-versa. We'll need Yates to prove he can make a defense pay for stacking the box or we'll have a tough time against everyone but Indy for the rest of the year. Atlanta and Cinci have very good run defenses but only mediocre pass defenses.
I'm OK with the check down passes as long as we move the chains and keep our D fresh. As hard as the D plays each down, they seem to get gassed.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
..........was scary. Foster fumbles twice and besides his 43 yd run, he averages 1 ypc for the other 21 carries. Tate has only 5 carries and logs 26 yds........and then disappears.

I can understand the hesitancy to let a rookie loose. Although it may also be somewhat scary to do so............if we don't show a better effective balance of pass plays, our running game is likely to continue looking a lot different than we have been used to..........and as effective as what we saw this week.
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Cut 'em some slack. Rookie QB at the helm so Jax defense queued in on the run. Not to mention they have the 4th best defense in the league if I heard correctly.

All they did was throw an extra guy or two in the box and dared us to beat them in the air....which we didnt.

We got the win. Now we get a week to prepare with TJ and Clemens.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If we try the same game plan against Atlanta, or any decent team for that matter, they will stack 8 or 9 in the box........and effectively tear us a new one.
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I agree, but i don't "think" what we saw today was the game plan... When Yates came in, Kubiak had him throwing it and they got three points out of it... He just reeled him in come the 2nd half just to be safe...

Seeing it was a weak offense we were going up against I'm okay with it..but you're right, against a team with a good offense we've got to try to score..

Sent from my ryePhone 12G using Tapakeg
 
This is just premature, next week we will run our play book, gary already addressed this by saying he did not want Yates also getting injured since we did not have another qb on the roster today. He played conservative to keep him upright, he had confidence that our defense would keep the lead and they did.....IF THEY PLAY LIKE THIS next week then worry about it, but i think yates showed enough before the half to prove he can throw it just fine....he took more chances down field then Leinart did while he was in....yates will be ok
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If we try the same game plan against Atlanta, or any decent team for that matter, they will stack 8 or 9 in the box........and effectively tear us a new one.
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Well, I seriously doubt they'll go with that game plan. Atlanta, or any decent team, has the ability to put some points on the board. Jacksonville, not so much.

Though this game was about as ugly as it gets, I didn't have a problem basically putting it in the hands of the defense and not asking a QB who has never taken an NFL snap to do too much.

I hope that with a full week of 1st team reps Yates will be better prepared to improve on the 4.5 Y/A the Texans had today. I hope, because I was really disappointed that although Leinart was 10-13, he had a Y/A of 4.38. Those kind of numbers will shut the offense down, period! That's when you get the box stacked, your run game shut down, not converting 3rd downs, everything.
 
in regards to stacking the box, i think yates is actually an upgrade in that regard - with the caveat that kubiak provides him with the full playbook. if someone wants to find it, this preseason i knocked leinart as a dumpoff specialist and praised yates for his raw but downfield ability (saying i liked yates better but he wasnt ready yet). that's what yates has, he appears much more comfortable with long and intermediate routes ... a guy who wants to stand in the pocket and find that deep in or zone sit.

yates is looking long, leinart is dumps, and schaub is the healthy medium. given our offense's history with 15ish yard routes and play-action posts, and our success in that area, i think that should be a focus with yates. let the kid throw. he's more of a gunslinger, especially as a raw rookie, but we have the play-action for him to be successful doing so.
 
I had no problem with what happened today... besides the Leinart injury.

We had a 10 point lead. We had spent what we could of the past two weeks getting Leinart ready to play. Not Yates.

The Jaguars have a damned good defense but no offense. With a 10 point lead, we needed to just pound the ball and let our defense win the game. And they did.

We could not afford to lose this game against the Jags. And we won it.

Now...

We spend this next week preparing Yates and/or Kellen Clemens. We'll face a defense that's even stouter against the run than the Jaguars. And we're probably going to lose.

This is the game, against the Falcons, where we start giving Yates the ball to see what he can do and what he can't do so we can figure out how to use him to win games for us.
 
I bet Kubiak puckered up a bit because of the Jags tendency to hurt our starting QB today. He just saw Leinart get hurt, getting drilled into the ground, and he was NOT going to let Jax stack the box and end up blitzing Yeights and hurting HIM as well.

This was as close to bubble-wrapping a QB as we'll ever see. I think, more and more, Kubiak wanted to get the hell outta' Florida with at least one of his original 3 QBs standing and able to play next week.

He had the lead, he had the D, and JDR didn't switch QBs early enough. Simple math, and in a way it does make a lot of sense.

In short: I don't necessarily think Kubiak was afraid to let Yates sling the ball. He just didn't want to read a Richard Justice column tomorrow that berates him about why he endangered his only remaining QB.

After all, we had NO 3rd string QB today. Yates gets hurt today, it would look super embarrassing to trot out Owen Daniels the rest of the game...and maybe even LOSE because of it.

A lot worse things could happen to us other than not seeing Yates display his skill set. All in all, it was the prudent thing to do. It was smart.
 
GP said:
In short: I don't necessarily think Kubiak was afraid to let Yates sling the ball. He just didn't want to read a Richard Justice column tomorrow that berates him about why he endangered his only remaining QB.
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I don't think Kubiak cares what Richard Justice writes in his column.

After all, we had NO 3rd string QB today. Yates gets hurt today, it would look super embarrassing to trot out Owen Daniels the rest of the game...and maybe even LOSE because of it.

A lot worse things could happen to us other than not seeing Yates display his skill set. All in all, it was the prudent thing to do. It was smart.
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^^^ This, I agree with.
 
Speedy said:
Well, I seriously doubt they'll go with that game plan. Atlanta, or any decent team, has the ability to put some points on the board. Jacksonville, not so much.

Though this game was about as ugly as it gets, I didn't have a problem basically putting it in the hands of the defense and not asking a QB who has never taken an NFL snap to do too much.

I hope that with a full week of 1st team reps Yates will be better prepared to improve on the 4.5 Y/A the Texans had today. I hope, because I was really disappointed that although Leinart was 10-13, he had a Y/A of 4.38. Those kind of numbers will shut the offense down, period! That's when you get the box stacked, your run game shut down, not converting 3rd downs, everything.
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being better prepared doesn't mean ready to run the entire playbook. The guy's a very raw 3rd string rookie. I really hope Kubiak can dial in on what he does know and formulates a game plan that emphasizes that. It'll really boil down to Yate's knowledge of the playbook and his ability to read a por defense.

Scooter said:
in regards to stacking the box, i think yates is actually an upgrade in that regard - with the caveat that kubiak provides him with the full playbook. if someone wants to find it, this preseason i knocked leinart as a dumpoff specialist and praised yates for his raw but downfield ability (saying i liked yates better but he wasnt ready yet). that's what yates has, he appears much more comfortable with long and intermediate routes ... a guy who wants to stand in the pocket and find that deep in or zone sit.

yates is looking long, leinart is dumps, and schaub is the healthy medium. given our offense's history with 15ish yard routes and play-action posts, and our success in that area, i think that should be a focus with yates. let the kid throw. he's more of a gunslinger, especially as a raw rookie, but we have the play-action for him to be successful doing so.
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Yates looked pretty good with pressure in his face. Altlanta can have a pretty good passrush. If he can burn them a few times, I bet they call off the dogs. Having said that, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the naked bootleg on our 1st offensive play.

A full week with the 1st team should yield dividends with AJ. I just don;t see Atlanta being able to cover him and Yates should be more comfortable with AJ by next Sunday. Hell, maybe AJ should have Yates spend the next week at his house with him.
 
I've done my fair share of criticizing Kubiak in the past, but he called this game just right. He wasn't counting on gaining yards with the run, he was burning clock and putting the game in the hands of the defense. It allowed him to escape with a W and a healthy QB.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If we try the same game plan against Atlanta, or any decent team for that matter, they will stack 8 or 9 in the box........and effectively tear us a new one.
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What same game plan?

Leinart had options, he just didn't pull the trigger. The checkdowns aren't the game plan. They are safety valves for a rusty QB to gain confidence. There were receivers down field. He just didn't go for them.

I would imagine the game plan with Yates will be similar. However, I don't think Yates will be as "conservative" with his throws.

If we ever get a two score lead, Gary is going to go into run mode, but (just like the Titans & Tampa Bay game) he'll take shots down the field when appropriate.


We are not the Packers or the Patriots. If we try to act like it, chances are we'll start turning the ball over. NOW, is not the time to find out.

Now is the time to rack up the small successes (completions, first downs, T.O.P., games) get this kid ready for the play-offs.
 
Brisco_County said:
I've done my fair share of criticizing Kubiak in the past, but he called this game just right. He wasn't counting on gaining yards with the run, he was burning clock and putting the game in the hands of the defense. It allowed him to escape with a W and a healthy QB.
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^^^^^
This
 
GP said:
I remember playing the Redskins last year, early in the season.

Kyle Shanahan had Donovan McNabb doing 3-step drops on every pass play the entire first half. The result was quick slants, quick outs, little crossing patterns, and it got the ball into the hands of the Redskins WRs and TEs and RBs.

That's what you do, to get a QB some confidence and to slow down a pass rush, and you mix in the run. The Redskins got away from that formula in the second half...trying to run the ball with Portis...and it cost them the win.

This is a time to use 4 WR and even motion out the RB and use 5 WR sets, like someone mentioned. 3-step drop, which prevents the pass rush from effectively getting to the QB. An excellent plan for a guy like Yaits, IMO.

There is a way to overcome problems, but I fear Kubiak's solutions have always been to rely on playmakers to make plays rather than crafting a solid, exploitive game plan that actually works.

It took us the Raiders game to figure out how to play without Andre Johnson. It will likely take us this game, and maybe the Atlanta game, to figure out how to play without Schaub. We sure as hell were not ready to put Yaytes into the game in place of Leinart.
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Great Post. Playing devil's advocate; Yates is not McNabb. Yates is the 3rd string QB & maybe (just maybe) he doesn't have the full play-book right now.

The kid did not look like he was out of place or that the game was too big (or too fast) for him. He didn't have a problem throwing the ball. Next week, they'll probably work on those plays you mentioned & losen the leash a little.
 
thunderkyss said:
What same game plan?

Leinart had options, he just didn't pull the trigger. The checkdowns aren't the game plan. They are safety valves for a rusty QB to gain confidence. There were receivers down field. He just didn't go for them.

I would imagine the game plan with Yates will be similar. However, I don't think Yates will be as "conservative" with his throws.

If we ever get a two score lead, Gary is going to go into run mode, but (just like the Titans & Tampa Bay game) he'll take shots down the field when appropriate.


We are not the Packers or the Patriots. If we try to act like it, chances are we'll start turning the ball over. NOW, is not the time to find out.

Now is the time to rack up the small successes (completions, first downs, T.O.P., games) get this kid ready for the play-offs.
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MSR. Well put, TK. Going forward, I see this as Kubiak's "moment" where he can either solidify his rep as an offensive and QB guru or prove that he's overrated at both. Yates showed poise and presence in the pocket today, and looks like he has some tools to work with. This is no time for "woe is me". This is the time to get behind your team and pull as hard as you can for them. Oh yeah, remind Kubes to use Tate if he's healthy.
 
Scooter said:
in regards to stacking the box, i think yates is actually an upgrade in that regard - with the caveat that kubiak provides him with the full playbook. if someone wants to find it, this preseason i knocked leinart as a dumpoff specialist and praised yates for his raw but downfield ability (saying i liked yates better but he wasnt ready yet). that's what yates has, he appears much more comfortable with long and intermediate routes ... a guy who wants to stand in the pocket and find that deep in or zone sit.

yates is looking long, leinart is dumps, and schaub is the healthy medium. given our offense's history with 15ish yard routes and play-action posts, and our success in that area, i think that should be a focus with yates. let the kid throw. he's more of a gunslinger, especially as a raw rookie, but we have the play-action for him to be successful doing so.
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Even David Carr was throwing the ball downfield until someone ripped him a new one for throwing too many INTs. I don't know if Leinart had that problem, but he knew if he didn't screw it up we were going to win the game.

I didn't expect to see him stretch the field, not so early in the game, maybe in the second half, but he never got that chance.

We've got 6 days of Kubiak stressing how important it is that Yates doesn't turn the ball over.. then we'll see what he does vs Atlanta. Hopefully he does a better job of finding the right balance of giving us a chance to win & playing it safe........ but we'll see.
 
DocBar said:
being better prepared doesn't mean ready to run the entire playbook. The guy's a very raw 3rd string rookie. I really hope Kubiak can dial in on what he does know and formulates a game plan that emphasizes that. It'll really boil down to Yate's knowledge of the playbook and his ability to read a por defense.

Yates looked pretty good with pressure in his face. Altlanta can have a pretty good passrush. If he can burn them a few times, I bet they call off the dogs. Having said that, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the naked bootleg on our 1st offensive play.
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Agreed. Yates has the beat arm. I'd like a shot down the field on the first play in the Atlanta game.

A full week with the 1st team should yield dividends with AJ. I just don;t see Atlanta being able to cover him and Yates should be more comfortable with AJ by next Sunday. Hell, maybe AJ should have Yates spend the next week at his house with him.
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No hobo.
 
If you are trying to burn the clock, aren't you still supposed to try to move the ball to score? Seven points, no matter who your opponent (e.g., Foster fumble return, Jags dropped EZ TD pass) can happen in an instant, sometimes in just one play. Jones ran for 166 yds. Our 3rd down efficiency was 13% (2/15).
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If you are trying to burn the clock, aren't you still supposed to try to move the ball to score? Seven points, no matter who your opponent (e.g., Foster fumble return, Jags dropped EZ TD pass) can happen in an instant, sometimes in just one play. Jones ran for 166 yds. Our 3rd down efficiency was 13% (2/15).
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Normally I would certainly agree, but remember that their offense scored a total of 6 points on us with all of that going on. Their O can't score on us, but their D can. Hopefully, teams won't be saying that about OUR O pretty soon.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
If you are trying to burn the clock, aren't you still supposed to try to move the ball to score? Seven points, no matter who your opponent (e.g., Foster fumble return, Jags dropped EZ TD pass) can happen in an instant, sometimes in just one play. Jones ran for 166 yds. Our 3rd down efficiency was 13% (2/15).
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No doubt about it.

If Leinart had stayed in the game, I'm sure we'd have continued to play the way we did against Tennessee, Cleveland, & Tampa Bay. Run the ball, move the chains, take a shot every now & then.

But with TJ Yates, they know better than we do how prepared he is.... limiting turnover opportunities was the gamble he took & it paid off.

Had Mercedes Lewis caught that ball, it would have been a different game & a different game-plan.
 
thunderkyss said:
No doubt about it.

If Leinart had stayed in the game, I'm sure we'd have continued to play the way we did against Tennessee, Cleveland, & Tampa Bay. Run the ball, move the chains, take a shot every now & then.

But with TJ Yates, they know better than we do how prepared he is.... limiting turnover opportunities was the gamble he took & it paid off.

Had Mercedes Lewis caught that ball, it would have been a different game & a different game-plan.
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Mercedes are over rated :cool:
 
Jax defense is pretty good .... add in their stacking the box and this is what you get.


I think the game situation - a 10 point lead against a bad offensive team with your 3rd string QB in the game dictated the conservative playcalls.

Yates didnt get sacked or throw an INT .... No mistakes and the result was a W. Cant really complain about that.


The bigger question is where do they go from here? Does Yates become the starter ? Do they bring in a veteran ? Favre and Warner are out of the discussion .... its possible Rosenfels returns to the Texans pending he passes a physical and clears waivers.

Who else is out there that could come in and produce in a couple weeks ?! Maybe Jeff Garcia .... I cant seem to find a list of current FA's.
 
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