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4th and 1 Fail

Shaft75

Shaft75

All Pro
We all know that we chose to run the ball on 4th and 1, straight into the strength of the Ravens defense - Ngata & Cody & Ray Lewis. This was a pretty ballsy/insane call to me. You're on the road, in a playoff team's house, and playing a ferocious defense. Why not send the punt team out? Hell, if you're going to go for it, why not call a pass play?

Also, I heard a caller on 610 say that on the same play Walter was uncovered on this play. Did anyone else see this? I'm hoping that this guy was just a little worked up and made this up. If not, it makes this play a triple dog FAIL.

:gun:
 
TexansFanatic

TexansFanatic

Extremist
Punt team? I could be wrong (I'm trying to forget) but I thought they were in field goal range.

In a hostile environment, not down by much, early in the game------you take the 3 points.

EDIT: The more I think about it, that was probably out of Rackers' range. Like 60 yards?
 
T

ThaShark316

#28
Shaft75 said:
We all know that we chose to run the ball on 4th and 1, straight into the strength of the Ravens defense - Ngata & Cody & Ray Lewis. This was a pretty ballsy/insane call to me. You're on the road, in a playoff team's house, and playing a ferocious defense. Why not send the punt team out? Hell, if you're going to go for it, why not call a pass play?

Also, I heard a caller on 610 say that on the same play Walter was uncovered on this play. Did anyone else see this? I'm hoping that this guy was just a little worked up and made this up. If not, it makes this play a triple dog FAIL.

:gun:
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He was uncovered, yeah. I wanted the FG, but regardless, not getting the 1st kept us in the game thanks to the Ravens O being, well...the Ravens O.
 
Blake

Blake

MMQB
Double Barrel said:
A playoff team that can't get a yard? Hmmmm.... :thinking:
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September 8, 2011

NEW ORLANS— The Saints twice failed to get a yard, and it cost them a victory at Green Bay.

The Packers stuffed Mark Ingram at the one yard line with no time on the clock as the Super Bowl Champions beat New Orleans 42-34 Thursday night to open the NFL season in Green Bay.
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I think the Saints are a playoff team. And they got stuffed twice.
 
R

Reggie

Practice Squad
I'm pretty sure we were well into fieldgoal range and i was fine with the call, but i think something like a sweep to foster where he can either get around the edge or make a cutback for a yard goes to his strength as opposed to trying to hammer it up the middle or off guard.
 
B

bo orlando

Waterboy
TexansFanatic said:
Punt team? I could be wrong (I'm trying to forget) but I thought they were in field goal range.

In a hostile environment, not down by much, early in the game------you take the 3 points.
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This is one of those plays that exposes a lot of the contradictions of the Kubiak haters. If he kicks a field goal then it's "go for it, you gutless prick. if you want to beat the ravens on the road you have to TAKE IT." So he goes for it, and it's "why aren't you kicking? we need points!"

And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"
 
Shaft75

Shaft75

All Pro
I remember the facemask. That was some effin BS, but still, we didn't make the yard that we needed.

Can anyone dredge up a screencap of that play with Walter uncovered. I just have a hard time believing that our braintrust would miss that.

BTW- I would consider myself a sunshine pumper, or I could even be called a LOSER at this point. But this sh*t is really getting old.
 
Vinny

Vinny

shiny happy fan
bo orlando said:
This is one of those plays that exposes a lot of the contradictions of the Kubiak haters. If he kicks a field goal then it's "go for it, you gutless prick. if you want to beat the ravens on the road you have to TAKE IT." So he goes for it, and it's "why aren't you kicking? we need points!"

And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"
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how often have you seen a coach pass up a FG in the first quarter of a game from the 20 yard line in a one score game? I've been watching football for 4 decades and I've only seen it once to the best of my recollection.
 
TexansFanatic

TexansFanatic

Extremist
bo orlando said:
This is one of those plays that exposes a lot of the contradictions of the Kubiak haters. If he kicks a field goal then it's "go for it, you gutless prick. if you want to beat the ravens on the road you have to TAKE IT." So he goes for it, and it's "why aren't you kicking? we need points!"

And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"
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I'm certain there are folks who will find fault with Kubiak no matter what he does.

Believe it or not, I wanted him to take the 3 points before he made the decision to go for the first down.

And I don't hate Kubiak. I like him a lot. But I've come to the conclusion after nearly five and a half years of .500 football that his team is not improving.
 
Shaft75

Shaft75

All Pro
bo orlando said:
And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"
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I call BS.

You take what the defense gives you. They were not going to give up the run yesterday. We had 1 on 1 coverage pretty much all game.

Also, you have to avoid running the ball into a big ass brick wall. A run should have been to the outside if a run was called.
 
Wolf

Wolf

100% Texan
Vinny said:
how often have you seen a coach pass up a FG in the first quarter of a game from the 20 yard line in a one score game? I've been watching football for 4 decades and I've only seen it once to the best of my recollection.
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exactly..

I can only see two instances for going for it ..late in the game and if you are in "no man land" where it might be a hair too long for a field goa
l
 
Double Barrel

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Super Mario said:
I think the Saints are a playoff team. And they got stuffed twice.
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The Saints are a playoff team. The Texans are not. :runaway:

Playoff teams have the fortitude to get over being stuffed. The Texans lack that fortitude and seem to see it as a harbinger of things to come.
 
B

BigBull17

Hall of Fame
TexansFanatic said:
Punt team? I could be wrong (I'm trying to forget) but I thought they were in field goal range.

In a hostile environment, not down by much, early in the game------you take the 3 points.

EDIT: The more I think about it, that was probably out of Rackers' range. Like 60 yards?
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**** it, punt anyway. I like our odds on a big play with Ravens pinned down. More so than the oh so fragile Matt Schaub or our interior line that weighs less than Mt Cody's left leg moving his rotund ass.

After one of Matt's sacks where he curled into a ball and cried like a child, I thought he was gonna audible to a punt on 3rd down. Like a quick kick type thing.
 
B

Big Lou

Hall of Fame
TexMexVato said:
Foster also had his facemask grabbed and the ref's missed it.
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Actually they tried to rip Fosters head off on that play. I only saw one replay but it seemed that he might have gotten the first down with a second effort had his head no been dislodged.
 
R

Rey

Guest
Honestly I don't have a huge problem with going for it.

Not getting it is kind of a problem though.
 
utahmark

utahmark

markbeth
bo orlando said:
This is one of those plays that exposes a lot of the contradictions of the Kubiak haters. If he kicks a field goal then it's "go for it, you gutless prick. if you want to beat the ravens on the road you have to TAKE IT." So he goes for it, and it's "why aren't you kicking? we need points!"

And as for the play call, if Kubiak throws there it's, "RUN THE BALL! We have ARIAN FOSTER!"
Click to expand...
There is a lot of people on the board so you will get someone to complain no matter what happens. So you have to look at who is upset about something and how many people think it was not a good decision.

Most coaches kick there, Kubiak outsmarted himself(about the only person he has been able to outsmart lately). But, if you must go for it at least go against the other teams weakness. If it were the Colts you run it up the middle, not against the Ravens.
 
utahmark

utahmark

markbeth
BigBull17 said:
**** it, punt anyway. I like our odds on a big play with Ravens pinned down. More so than the oh so fragile Matt Schaub or our interior line that weighs less than Mt Cody's left leg moving his rotund ass.

After one of Matt's sacks where he curled into a ball and cried like a child, I thought he was gonna audible to a punt on 3rd down. Like a quick kick type thing.
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all of that "Matt's soft" crap was more reasonable 2 years ago. He's not going to break tackles and run for 40 yards like some qb's so why take extra hit's, he takes plenty as it is. I think having a qb who can't run is a pretty big liability these days, though.
 
nero THE zero

nero THE zero

All Pro
utahmark said:
all of that "Matt's soft" crap was more reasonable 2 years ago. He's not going to break tackles and run for 40 yards like some qb's so why take extra hit's, he takes plenty as it is. I think having a qb who can't run is a pretty big liability these days, though.
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A liability? As opposed to a statue in the pocket who's unable to avoid any and all pressure?
 
ObsiWan

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
TexansFanatic said:
Punt team? I could be wrong (I'm trying to forget) but I thought they were in field goal range.

In a hostile environment, not down by much, early in the game------you take the 3 points.

EDIT: The more I think about it, that was probably out of Rackers' range. Like 60 yards?
Click to expand...
No. You were right the first time. It was 4th & 1 on about the Ravens' 21 yd line; well within gimmie FG range.
1st and 10 at BAL 46M. -- Schaub pass incomplete short right to J.Jones. PENALTY on BLT-R.Lewis, Defensive Holding, 5 yards, enforced at BLT 46 - No Play.
1st and 10 at BAL 41B. -- Tate right tackle to BLT 29 for 12 yards (E.Reed, L.Webb).
1st and 10 at BAL 29B. -- Tate left tackle to BLT 27 for 2 yards (E.Reed, H.Ngata).
2nd and 8 at BAL 27 -- M.Schaub pass short left to A.Foster to BLT 26 for 1 yard (Ca.Williams).
3rd and 7 at BAL 26 -- (Shotgun) M.Schaub pass short right to K.Walter to BLT 20 for 6 yards (L.Webb).
4th and 1 at BAL 20 -- A.Foster right tackle to BLT 20 for no gain (J.Johnson).
DRIVE TOTALS: 5 plays, 21 yards, 2:33 elapsed
Score: HOU 0 - BAL 7
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ObsiWan

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Thorn said:
I liked the fact they went for it, I really do. To bad they didn't make it.
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As I've said in another post, I'm not as pissed that they went for it as I am with what they called.

That was a perfect time for the fake plunge and then a play action to one of our TEs.
The game had gotten "chippy". The Ravens were over-aggressive to stop Foster. Tate had just ripped off the largest run of the day (a whopping 12 yds). So maybe they were thinking we thought we could pull it off again and gash 'em for 2-3 yds and they were itchin' to stop us.
I'm tellin' you, they were primed for some trickeration.

siiigh....
 
2

2slik4u

Veteran
Shaft75 said:
We all know that we chose to run the ball on 4th and 1, straight into the strength of the Ravens defense - Ngata & Cody & Ray Lewis. This was a pretty ballsy/insane call to me. You're on the road, in a playoff team's house, and playing a ferocious defense. Why not send the punt team out? Hell, if you're going to go for it, why not call a pass play?

Also, I heard a caller on 610 say that on the same play Walter was uncovered on this play. Did anyone else see this? I'm hoping that this guy was just a little worked up and made this up. If not, it makes this play a triple dog FAIL.

:gun:
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I was wondering when someone would say something about this. If I remember correctly I remember a crap load of people being pissed because Kubiak was too conservative and didnt have any balls to go for it on 4th and short. He finally goes for it, fails, and still have upset people.

Meh.

Im happy we went for it. It was early, the game was close. Baltimore was gaining momentum early and that would have stifled it...instead it went the other way. I am OK with going for it just not the play call. I dont think Ive ever seen the jumbo formation play action bootleg not work for us in short yardage situations. Why we didnt go with that is anyones guess.

Not upset with the risk, just the call. Still happy Kubes showed he's got a pair and went for it hoping to take some breath out of the Ravens.....didnt pan out. Oh well, on to next week.
 
nero THE zero

nero THE zero

All Pro
utahmark said:
he's been sacked a little less than 2 times per game since he's been here.
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He's played behind a good offensive line. I don't know what this has to do with the price of tea in China.

If he was even the slightest bit mobile he would add another dimension to the bootleg, would be able to make a play when the pocket breaks down, and would have scored the game winning TD at the end of the Raiders game.

It's ridiculous to suggest that mobility is a liability. It's indefensible.
 
DexmanC

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
Any decent quarterback would've made a team pay for leaving a defender uncovered,
i.e. Kerry Collins against the Texans in 2009, or Tony Romo against the Texans in 2010.
 
ObsiWan

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
texanhead08 said:
Even one who's head coach doesn't allow him to audible ?
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No, no. That was our previous QB.

From what I've read, Schaub gets two plays each snap via the helmet radio. It's up to him to decide which one will work best for the defense he sees.

As far as him not seeing KW uncovered during his pre-snap read, that's a totally different matter. That's all on him.
 
I

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
Kubiak and other "old school" coachs say a line should be able to move the DLine a yard in that situation, but is that really a very good stadegy when the OLine has players in the middle like Myers and Briesel who are < 300 vs players in the middle of the Ravens DLine who are > 325 ? ZB linemen are comparitively small because they are built for speed & quickness while straight-ahead drive blocking emphasizing power and seize.
 
HJam72

HJam72

Hall of Fame
IDEXAN said:
Kubiak and other "old school" coachs say a line should be able to move the DLine a yard in that situation, but is that really a very good stadegy when the OLine has players in the middle like Myers and Briesel who are < 300 vs players in the middle of the Ravens DLine who are > 325 ? ZB linemen are comparitively small because they are built for speed & quickness while straight-ahead drive blocking emphasizing power and seize.
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I don't think they're supposed to seize. :)
 
Vinny

Vinny

shiny happy fan
utahmark said:
There is a lot of people on the board so you will get someone to complain no matter what happens. So you have to look at who is upset about something and how many people think it was not a good decision.

Most coaches kick there, Kubiak outsmarted himself(about the only person he has been able to outsmart lately). But, if you must go for it at least go against the other teams weakness. If it were the Colts you run it up the middle, not against the Ravens.
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Kubiak has always been the smartest guy in the room...you know that. :peek:
 
ThaJokaa

ThaJokaa

True Texans Fan
Wait a minute! Isnt this the same forum that kept bitching about Kubes not going for it more on 4th n 1s? Now that he does, yall want him to punt? Make up yalls mind...
 
thunderkyss

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
DexmanC said:
Any decent quarterback would've made a team pay for leaving a defender uncovered,
i.e. Kerry Collins against the Texans in 2009, or Tony Romo against the Texans in 2010.
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There was some confusion on the defense. They were trying to figure out how to line up. Cary Williams was on his way to cover Walter when the ball was snapped. Walter went down to block Williams. Had Matt took the time to give Walter a signal, Williams would have been in position.

What is fail, is that the Ravens weren't set & still stopped us from gaining a yard.

& that receiver against Dallas in 2010 wasn't uncovered.. Kareem Jackson was... ahhh... I see what you did there.
:kitten:
 
Wolf

Wolf

100% Texan
Kubiak
(on the running game the past two weeks) “We haven’t run the ball well the past two weeks, you are right. Twenty five carries for 90-something yards, I think. This team is a tough team to run on, but you’ve just got to keep pounding at them, and we did. I think we kept battling, had ourselves some good [field] position as a team. A 19-14 football game early in the fourth quarter, we’re down there on the 40-yard line, third-and-8, make a play, we knew it was going to be that kind of play, we didn’t make it, and they started making theirs, but you are right, we’re not running the ball well right now.”

(on how difficult passing third downs were) “We had it under control, I thought, for the most part, until we got down to where we had to start throwing the ball. I thought we did a good job with our third downs in the first half, mixing it up in what we were doing, making it manageable, and we were able to protect Matt [Schaub]. But you’re right, you get down more than a touchdown to this football team, and they know you have to throw, you’re going to have a hard time holding up.”


(on going for it on fourth-and-1 early) “Really, to me, we just have to line up and make a yard. The way we’ve been running the ball, last week and then this week, I’m disappointed in it, and you’re not going to go very far in this league if you can’t line up and make a yard. I don’t care how many people they have on the line of scrimmage. We will stay aggressive, I expect us to stay on the field right there, line up and be able to move the chains, and we didn’t do it, so give them credit.”
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http://www.houstontexans.com/news/article-2/Quotes-Texans-at-Ravens/daa081ed-8089-4d91-8561-3960371013b9

:hmmm:
 
P

panamamyers

Waterboy
Still waiting for the naked bootleg.
Schaub could have waltzed into the endzone, even if it did take him 20 seconds to go 20 yards.
 
R

Rey

Guest
ObsiWan said:
No, no. That was our previous QB.

From what I've read, Schaub gets two plays each snap via the helmet radio. It's up to him to decide which one will work best for the defense he sees.

As far as him not seeing KW uncovered during his pre-snap read, that's a totally different matter. That's all on him.
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I seriously doubt Matt gets two plays each time he goes to the line.

What he gets is the option to check into another play based on the play call and the defensive formation.

For instance...During the week I'm guessing they go over the plays that they will want to run in the game. If the defense happens to be set up to stop a certain play (and really I'd bet it's only on running plays) Matt has the option of checking to another pre-determined run.

They may even have an 'opposite' call to switch the direction of any given run play.

But I just don't believe Matt is going up to the line and choosing 1 of 2 plays he wants to run. I watch the games, I don't see it....Plus I know a little bit about football and offensive gameplanning...

Being able to choose 1 of 2 plays everytime you come to the line is a whole lot of lee way and power. If you are going to do that, you may as well really take the reigns off.
 
HJam72

HJam72

Hall of Fame
Matt has the option to call the play assigned and throw to one of the hopefully open receivers....or sit down and watch Leinart screw it up. :handshake:
 
srrono

srrono

All Pro
Shaft75 said:
We all know that we chose to run the ball on 4th and 1, straight into the strength of the Ravens defense - Ngata & Cody & Ray Lewis. This was a pretty ballsy/insane call to me. You're on the road, in a playoff team's house, and playing a ferocious defense. Why not send the punt team out? Hell, if you're going to go for it, why not call a pass play?

Also, I heard a caller on 610 say that on the same play Walter was uncovered on this play. Did anyone else see this? I'm hoping that this guy was just a little worked up and made this up. If not, it makes this play a triple dog FAIL.

:gun:
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