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Fire Kareem Jackson

Rep your way if it lets me. You play what works, and Allen just works at CB2.

Make KJ the nickel man like we all know he SHOULD BE.
 
You know, you could have at least constructed a better argument. You realize that in first 2 games, Texans kept opposing teams to 20 combined points?
 
Man I swear....Allen was picked on all game long and because he gets a INT on a hail mary pass he is redeemed?

It's funny because when KJ created a fumble week two barely anyone mentions it after the game.

Lets not act like the Texans have never won a game with KJ starting.
 
Between KJ and Allen it really is a toss up - one week Allen plays better, another week KJ plays better. Today Allen did NOT play good. Yeah, he had that interception on the hail mary, but besides that he got picked on just like KJ gets picked on on bad days. We have a problem at CB2 - but firing a rookie in just his second year is not the answer. Signing a legit CB2 and putting Jackson at Nickle might be the answer. But I don`t see that coming - so until then, let both those guys play and see, who first can turn the corner.

But you are right, next week I would start Allen to see if he can take some momentum with him.
 
He looked about as good as Jackson to me. He had slightly better coverage at some points, but he also had some pretty big screw ups on the short passes. He did have that nice hit to cause the incomplete on 3rd down.

At this point I'd just weigh the good plays with the bad plays. There are some plays Allen made that could cost us the game, but there were some plays he made that could win us the game (like the incomplete, and the interception at the end.
 
fiasco west said:
Man I swear....Allen was picked on all game long and because he gets a INT on a hail mary pass he is redeemed?

It's funny because when KJ created a fumble week two barely anyone mentions it after the game.

Lets not act like the Texans have never won a game with KJ starting.
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let me see these stats that allen was picked on all game ???? KJ gave up 8 of 9 last week what was allens ? Wallace had the best day for the steelers and that was with JoJo covering him.
 
^With the above two posters over ellis

That's exactly why these two are splitting time. Because they both can't win the job.
 
fiasco west said:
Man I swear....Allen was picked on all game long and because he gets a INT on a hail mary pass he is redeemed?

It's funny because when KJ created a fumble week two barely anyone mentions it after the game.

Lets not act like the Texans have never won a game with KJ starting.
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Allen had some pretty good coverages today. I'm not gonna complain about him.
 
fiasco west said:
Man I swear....Allen was picked on all game long and because he gets a INT on a hail mary pass he is redeemed?

It's funny because when KJ created a fumble week two barely anyone mentions it after the game.

Lets not act like the Texans have never won a game with KJ starting.
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even on his bad plays allen was significantly better today than KJ. steelers picked on him at times, but he never looked as clueless as KJ often looks.
 
only bad play by allen i remeber was when he looked over his shoulder for the ball on the inside and the ball was thrown to the outside. He had good coverage just lost the ball.
 
I really didn't see Allen looking 'solid' or 'okay' it looked pretty much the same.

Huge cushion...completion...repeat

As for him doing okay for some coverages...Kareem has done okay for some coverages also, but since he's the scapegoat (Evident that after a win people still complain about him)people just shrug it off. Kareem played okay the first two games and bad against the Saints, no big surprise there.
 
fiasco west said:
I really didn't see Allen looking 'solid' or 'okay' it looked pretty much the same.

Huge cushion...completion...repeat

As for him doing okay for some coverages...Kareem has done okay for some coverages also, but since he's the scapegoat (Evident that after a win people still complain about him)people just shrug it off. Kareem played okay the first two games and bad against the Saints, no big surprise there.
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like i said what were the stats against allen ??? it was 8 of 9 against KJ last week.
 
I honestly dont see how Jackson gets back on the field.

(unless it's because of injury to someone else)

wasted pick, it happens, move on..

TJ
 
J Allen did as good as could be expected, IMO. He allowed some catches, but he was on the guy as soon as the catch was made. The big difference is that he does'nt get torched for huge gains like KJ does.

I don't what more we can expect from Allen; it's like some people expect the other team to NEVER get open. This is the NFL, which is more and more a passing league. QB's own the league, teams are going tom make plays in the passing game. JJ24 and Allen held Big Ben to 206 yards and 10 points. I'm not complainin.
 
This kind of game from Allen is what I thought he brought to the table over Jackson. If he plays enough he will get his hands on balls and make some plays deep down the field.

But I do think Kareem has some talent. Im starting to think he'd make a better safety as well.
 
EllisUnit said:
like i said what were the stats against allen ??? it was 8 of 9 against KJ last week.
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Not sure if those kinda stats are available at this time. But I doubt i'm the only one who thinks Allen was picked on and targeted in this game. Even one of the commentators mentioned that very thing.

I just don't like when people obviously scapegoat a player and pretend he is most of the problem. The first two weeks KJ was solid, where were the big mistakes? He gets burned against a elite offense and lets not forget there was no pass rush and everyone is ready to send him packing and start a guy who has had numerous chances at starting but can't win the job. Allen looks just as bad as KJ, and i'm not even saying KJ is good or he should be the #2 CB of this team, but Allen was not any better. Did he make some plays and look solid at times, yep. But so has Kareem the first two weeks.
 
fiasco west said:
I really didn't see Allen looking 'solid' or 'okay' it looked pretty much the same.

Huge cushion...completion...repeat

As for him doing okay for some coverages...Kareem has done okay for some coverages also, but since he's the scapegoat (Evident that after a win people still complain about him)people just shrug it off. Kareem played okay the first two games and bad against the Saints, no big surprise there.
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The DB's all looked a lot better when they started lining up at the LOS and stopped giving up the huge cushion. It cut down on a lot of the pitch and catch 1st downs we're so used to seeing.
 
I agree that it's a toss up.

Allen was picked on today, but some of those times he had good coverage and Roethlisburger beat him in a way that would have beaten most #1 CBs. A perfect pass usually beats good coverage, so it's not always the fault of whoever "gets beat."

No way you fire KJ, but he hasn't beaten Allen out....that's for sure. They're both inconsistent, but KJ has more eventual upside................................................................................................................................................EVENTUALLY...
 
fiasco west said:
Not sure if those kinda stats are available. But I doubt i'm the only one who thinks Allen was picked on and targeted in this game. Even one of the commentators mentioned that very thing.

I just don't like when people obviously scapegoat a player and pretend he is most of the problem. The first two weeks KJ was solid, where were the big mistakes? He gets burned against a elite defense and lets not forget there was no pass rush and everyone is ready to send him packing and start a guy who has had numerous chances at starting but can't win the job. Allen looks just as bad as KJ, and i'm not even saying KJ is good or he should be the #2 CB of this team, but Allen was not any better. Did he make some plays and look solid at times, yep. But so has Kareem the first two weeks.
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Ok here its simple. JoJo covered wallace all game and he had 4 rec for 77 yards he was tagreted 4 times. A few of those were against zone. J. Allen covered A. Brown who had 5 rec for 67 yards and was thrown to 10 times. dont look like he was abused to me ;) just saying
 
DocBar said:
The DB's all looked a lot better when they started lining up at the LOS and stopped giving up the huge cushion. It cut down on a lot of the pitch and catch 1st downs we're so used to seeing.
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Not sure what is up with that cushion, but often times you see it and surprise the opposing QB goes right that way to pick up a free 7 or 8 yards.
 
EllisUnit said:
Ok here its simple. JoJo covered wallace all game and he had 4 rec for 77 yards he was tagreted 4 times. A few of those were against zone. J. Allen covered A. Brown who had 5 rec for 67 yards and was thrown to 10 times. dont look like he was abused to me ;) just saying
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40 of Wallace's yds came against zone with Manning doing his best to stay with him. All in all, we didn't get abused in the passing game.
 
EllisUnit said:
Ok here its simple. JoJo covered wallace all game and he had 4 rec for 77 yards he was tagreted 4 times. A few of those were against zone. J. Allen covered A. Brown who had 5 rec for 67 yards and was thrown to 10 times. dont look like he was abused to me ;) just saying
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Listen to the numbers, They'll tell you Allen played better than Joseph.

Lets remember that Wallace picked up 40 yards that Joseph had nothing to do with.
 
I think it's a wash really. For whatever reason I'm more comfortable with Allen back there than KJ and I always have been BUT I will readily admit that there's no real difference between the two when it's all said and done. They both kinda suck, just in different ways. I find watching Allen being abused less stressful for some reason than watching Kareem be abused. I can't explain why.
 
fiasco west said:
Listen to the numbers, They'll tell you Allen played better than Joseph.

Lets remember that Wallace picked up 40 yards that Joseph had nothing to do with.
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i said against zone, BUT this is not about JoJo i added him to it to show who was covering who. Allen was thrown at 10 times and only allowed 5 rec for 67 yards, that is not getting abused.
 
Hervoyel said:
I think it's a wash really. For whatever reason I'm more comfortable with Allen back there than KJ and I always have been BUT I will readily admit that there's no real difference between the two when it's all said and done. They both kinda suck, just in different ways. I find watching Allen being abused less stressful for some reason than watching Kareem be abused. I can't explain why.
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I am not backing Kareem, I have admitted that they both are pretty bad.

I think this is what it comes down to. It's because Kareem was our #1 pick and doesn't show any promise.
 
STEEL BLUE TEXANS said:
They both stink. The only difference between today and last week was the pressure we were getting on the QB.
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thats it in a nutshell. we were able to get after rothlisberger today, something we couldnt do against brees in the 4th last week......for whatever reason. how quickly we forget allen getting giving up the big play in the jets game to edwards. how quickly we forget that it was allen getting run over for a td by marshall in the miami game & it was KJ who made the big play to stop a drive that week.

its what hervy said...they both suck its just a week to week thing on who gets the blame for sucking the most.
 
To me, the difference is that Allen is the better play maker. They will both give up about the same amount of plays imo, but on occasion Allen will get an INT or a huge hit to break up a pass that KJ does not get. Overall, I do not see much of a difference.

However, with that being said, I like seeing KJ out there. I think Allen has become the player he is going to be, and we have seen that. KJ is in his 2nd year, and while he has not been good, you have to hold out hope that maybe a better D coord in Phillips can fix him, cause right now we really do not have another choice. Maybe the lightbulb will finally come on and he will be a decent qb 2 - we just don't know yet. Allen is just a low wattage bulb - we have figured that out.

Also, just on a side note - you can not compare Brees abusing KJ to this game for Allen. The Saints O is on a whole different level than the steelers - I just do not think that is a fair comparison.
 
If anyone watched this game and came away believing we do not need a #2 corner ....
My only problem is deciding corner or WR in first round draft.
 
I'm wondering why it's never been brought up before, but KJ seems like he'd be a decent FS. His strengths are not in covering a guy, but he's a good tackler and his coverage skills wouldn't get exposed when he's in the nickel or on man to man
 
hradhak said:
I'm wondering why it's never been brought up before, but KJ seems like he'd be a decent FS. His strengths are not in covering a guy, but he's a good tackler and his coverage skills wouldn't get exposed when he's in the nickel or on man to man
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I had brought this up several times, except I don't think Quin would be any better at CB.

If we can get another CB like Joseph, my preference would be Quin at nickle and Jackson at FS (instead of Quin at FS and Jackson at nickle).
But I can live with either way.
 
76Texan said:
I had brought this up several times, except I don't think Quin would be any better at CB.

If we can get another CB like Joseph, my preference would be Quin at nickle and Jackson at FS (instead of Quin at FS and Jackson at nickle).
But I can live with either way.
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Not happening. Name another team in the NFL not named the Eagles and Jets that has 2 pro bowl corners on their team. It is usually 1 shutdown corner and 1 pretty decent corner...

now the Texans just need to go find that pretty decent corner...
 
The real clincher for me is that if neither of them can be relied on to cover the damn reciever but one of them has a knack for intercepting the ball every now and then, you have to take that.

Allen can be worth 6 INTs or so a season, why not just take that for the rest of the year and look at how to remedy the problem in the offseason, whether that be coaching up a Carmichael/Harris, another high pick, or there is a FA you like, you make do for now and put it high up your list next year.
 
Look, my fat drunk ass can probably cover in bump and run better than KJ and I know I read the back of a jersey just as well as him, so I can't really defend him, but, I saw Allen get ate up quite a bit today FWIW.
 
Hervoyel said:
I think it's a wash really. For whatever reason I'm more comfortable with Allen back there than KJ and I always have been BUT I will readily admit that there's no real difference between the two when it's all said and done. They both kinda suck, just in different ways. I find watching Allen being abused less stressful for some reason than watching Kareem be abused. I can't explain why.
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LMAO....maybe b/c Allen was not a 1st round pick. Also, for some reason KJ burns are just epic where as Allen burns are not as bad.....just bad
 
EllisUnit said:
let me see these stats that allen was picked on all game ???? KJ gave up 8 of 9 last week what was allens ? Wallace had the best day for the steelers and that was with JoJo covering him.
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Allen also did not get singled out for an entire drive like KJ did last week against the Saints. In my opinion Allen has out performed KJ, but I am hoping that KJ gets his head wrapped around the pro game soon.
 
BlueSteel said:
Allen also did not get singled out for an entire drive like KJ did last week against the Saints. In my opinion Allen has out performed KJ, but I am hoping that KJ gets his head wrapped around the pro game soon.
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after 18 games i have seen 0 improvment, so should we still start him HOPING he improves. Missing the play-offs due to an incompitent CB wont be very good for G.K and his hopes of remaining our coach.
 
Hervoyel said:
I think it's a wash really. For whatever reason I'm more comfortable with Allen back there than KJ and I always have been BUT I will readily admit that there's no real difference between the two when it's all said and done. They both kinda suck, just in different ways. I find watching Allen being abused less stressful for some reason than watching Kareem be abused. I can't explain why.
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Probably because Allen makes plays in between getting beat.
 
Rey said:
This kind of game from Allen is what I thought he brought to the table over Jackson. If he plays enough he will get his hands on balls and make some plays deep down the field.

But I do think Kareem has some talent. Im starting to think he'd make a better safety as well.
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I don't think Jackson would have been in position to get that INT Allen got.

Jackson would never got abused & manhandled by Brandon Marshall.

Other than that, I didn't see much difference between the two. Allen got lucky a lot today, that the pressure was getting to Rothlisberg. There were several plays that would have gone for big gains & or TDs when Ben was picking on Allen, but Ben couldn't get the ball where he needed it to be.

I'm seeing two sides of the same coin. I agree with fiasco_west, neither guy should be starting right now.
 
DocBar said:
40 of Wallace's yds came against zone with Manning doing his best to stay with him. All in all, we didn't get abused in the passing game.
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& we knew we wouldn't with their OL problems.

Connor Barwin had an excellent game.
 
BullNation4Life said:
I STILL say move Quinn back to #2 and put Troy Nolan out there at SS....

Move KJ or Allen to Nickle...
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This may be a possibility later in the season. I'd so much rather see Quin at safety than Nolan right now.

But Nolan is getting time, maybe he'll work his way into starting & we can move Quin back to corner.
 
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