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Corner # 2 not better, Quin?

badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
WIn or lose I want to see someone step up. KJ may not play and I have zero confidence in Allen whom I had hoped to have a solid if not spetacular season playing only CB.

If this spot is still a disaster after Sunday, I recommend Quin moving back and either Nolan or Allen playing opposite Manning.

Your thoughts?
 
Far as I can tell, Jackson has had roughly 9 minutes of inexcusable play.

The Coaches identified it & they "corrected it" Monday.... let's see if it took.
 
thunderkyss said:
Far as I can tell, Jackson has had roughly 9 minutes of inexcusable play.

The Coaches identified it & they "corrected it" Monday.... let's see if it took.
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Interesting. Did they say what "it" was or how it was "corrected"? I sure hope this is good info.

BTW, the average passing play is what like 15 seconds? If so, 4 of those in a minute x 9 of your minutes and that is 36 plays? An average of 12 bad plays a game? Even I don't think he is that bad.
 
badboy said:
Interesting. Did they say what "it" was or how it was "corrected"? I sure hope this is good info.

BTW, the average passing play is what like 15 seconds? If so, 4 of those in a minute x 9 of your minutes and that is 36 plays? An average of 12 bad plays a game? Even I don't think he is that bad.
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Well, it was actually less than that.... 6 I think in that Saints game.... nothing terrible (or spectacular for that matter) in the other two.

So that averages out to 2 a game.......
 
thunderkyss said:
Well, it was actually less than that.... 6 I think in that Saints game.... nothing terrible (or spectacular for that matter) in the other two.

So that averages out to 2 a game.......
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jackson gave up 8 receptions out of the 9 times he was thrown at. If we hadnt had such good pressure on Brees in the first halk KJ would of looked even worse. 8 out of 9. come on that is beyond terrible.
 
EllisUnit said:
jackson gave up 8 receptions out of the 9 times he was thrown at. If we hadnt had such good pressure on Brees in the first halk KJ would of looked even worse. 8 out of 9. come on that is beyond terrible.
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I think coaches will focus on that 1 and then fix the other 8.
:splits:
 
badboy said:
I think coaches will focus on that 1 and then fix the other 8.
:splits:
Click to expand...


Or opposing dc's will watch the tape from the Saints game and pick on KJ until Phillips gets him out of there. He sucks. The Texans have got to learn to put the best players on the field. Stop running KJ out there because he was a 1st round pick last year. Quin should be moved back to cb. Our mlbs were exposed by Graham last week also. In the NFL once a weakness is exposed opposing teams will go after that weakness until it is fixed. Last year it never got fixed. Luckily the Texans are getting more pressure on qbs and that helps some. It will get them a few more wins than last year but the Texans will not be able to beat the elite teams and surely die a quick playoff death.
 
EllisUnit said:
jackson gave up 8 receptions out of the 9 times he was thrown at. If we hadnt had such good pressure on Brees in the first halk KJ would of looked even worse. 8 out of 9. come on that is beyond terrible.
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i think the problem was more that the texans have been protecting kj through the first 2 1/2 games with near-constant safety help. texans couldn't do this anymore when the saints opened up the offense in the second half and were able to isolate kj on a quality receiver. any OC already knows this is the gameplan against the texans. fortunately, not every team has the talent to exploit this. better pray we don't meet the patriots or chargers if we make the playoffs.
 
thunderkyss said:
Far as I can tell, Jackson has had roughly 9 minutes of inexcusable play.

The Coaches identified it & they "corrected it" Monday.... let's see if it took.
Click to expand...
If it were only that easy, evey player would be a pro bowler.
You can't make chicken salad out of chicken chit.
 
disaacks3 said:
Pretty sure I heard on the news tonight that KJ is out for the Steelers game.
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Jackson’s Status
Cornerback Kareem Jackson didn’t practice Friday, and is listed as questionable for Sunday’s contest against the Steelers. Should he be unable to go, veteran Jason Allen would start in Jackson’s place.
“I think there’s still a chance he could play,” Texans head coach Gary Kubiak said of Jackson. “So it’ll probably be a game-time decision, probably get him up moving around tomorrow morning and work him out before the game.”
Kubiak also mentioned that Brice McCain will likely see some time in the game as well, and that the absence of Jackson is an opportunity for the two reserves.
“Jason’s basically played as much, almost as much as a starter, probably just a little bit less than Kareem, so he’s played a lot of football,” Kubiak said. “Brice basically starts in nickel, so he’s got his starter ability on our football team. If Kareem’s unable to go, those guys will have to stand up and do their job.”
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enjoy the show :htown2atx:
 
No way would I move Glover from Safety...

He is not great in man coverage, and he has been playing safety pretty well IMO. His run support from the safety position is excellent, and besides the time he was manned up on J.Grahm I don't recall him getting beat badly.

Where is McCain at? Where is McMannis? Brandon Harris? These are the guys I want to see get more playing time.

And Allen does suck at a number of things, but he is like the Steve Slaton of CB's...If he plays enough he's going to get his hands on some balls and make some things happen. It's jus that for most of the time he's in, he's sucking.
 
I think it's too early to start playing Musical Chairs.

Quin is learning his new position & doing a damn good job. Nolan really doesn't look much better than he did last year once you figure the limited time he's played & the number of mistakes he's made.

I'd go forward with the plan they've got, if they don't think Jackson is cutting it, McCain, McMannis (who I believe is hurt), Harris need to move up on the depth chart. Leave Allen in his "support" role, but when those guys screw up, get them off the field right then & there correct him, then send him back in & get Allen off the field. Don't wait until he's given up 70 yds & a TD.
 
Honestly, from what I've seen, McMannis is the guy I'd have out there right now. (If he's healthy)

I don't know if he plays the long ball well, but he seems to play short and medium stuff better than the Allen and Kjax. I really dislike McCain's lack of physicality, but he plays Man to Man and the deep ball well. I don't know anything about Brandon Harris on the NFL level, but from what I've seen I like how he goes up and challenges receivers for the ball....He is a physical player but I just don't know what he is about right now...

It would be nice if we could find a way to use each of these guys at what they are best at. If you have corners that are better when the field gets shorter in the redzone, play them down there....If you have guys that play long passes better, play them when you think the situation calls for it...Mix up the personnel...Get the best use out of each guy...
 
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck and it's time to call Kareem Jackson exactly what he is.....A COMPLETE BUST.


He sucks and the sooner he is pulled from the starting lineup the faster this team can improve in the secondary. I hope he is out this week, it will be nice watching a game where he doesn't even step out on the field.
 
Carr Bombed said:
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck and it's time to call Kareem Jackson exactly what he is.....A COMPLETE BUST.


He sucks and the sooner he is pulled from the starting lineup the faster this team can improve in the secondary. I hope he is out this week, it will be nice watching a game where he doesn't even step out on the field.
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He sucks at man coverage. That doesn't make him a bust as a nickel or in a zone defense.
Seeing that Quin was our best cb last season, I wouldn't be oppossed to swapping him and KJ. KJ is a good tackler and plays his best when everything's in front of him. He might have good value as a FS?
 
Rey said:
No way would I move Glover from Safety...

He is not great in man coverage, and he has been playing safety pretty well IMO. His run support from the safety position is excellent, and besides the time he was manned up on J.Grahm I don't recall him getting beat badly.

Where is McCain at? Where is McMannis? Brandon Harris? These are the guys I want to see get more playing time.

And Allen does suck at a number of things, but he is like the Steve Slaton of CB's...If he plays enough he's going to get his hands on some balls and make some things happen. It's jus that for most of the time he's in, he's sucking.
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I've finished taking screen shots of all the Defensive plays.
Once again, I hate to say it, but some people is looking at the wrong scapegoat.

There are plenty of blames to spread around.
The run D, the pass rush, the LBs in coverage - they took turn with the secondary to look bad, which is normally the case when the opponent put 40 points on you.

In the secondary, Quin and Joseph had some really bad moments (but they did make some play.) Joseph also got away with a few situations.
Allen was bad in run support (he was involved in both TD runs.)
Nolan's angle and tackling remains poor. Even Manning wasn't all that hot.
Of course, Jackson was another member of that group. McCain was in the mix as well, but he was protected by the safeties the most.
 
I don't think the Texans want to make the same mistake with Harris like they made with Jackson last year which is why he has not played yet.
 
gary said:
I don't think the Texans want to make the same mistake with Harris like they made with Jackson last year which is why he has not played yet.
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I think giving a first or second round corner spot duty is vastly different from annointing a guy the starter from day 0.
 
Rey said:
I think giving a first or second round corner spot duty is vastly different from annointing a guy the starter from day 0.
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Regardless Harris is still a new comer and top tier quarterbacks love those.
 
gary said:
Regardless Harris is still a new comer and top tier quarterbacks love those.
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I don't understand how you can say "regardless"...

Spot duty on a decent defense with a competent D-coordinator and annointing a guy the full-time starter with unspectacular safety play and poor coaching are much different.

QB's can love what they want to love, but plenty of rookie corners have come into good situations and played ok. I don't think that the bad taste left in our mouths by kjax's rookie campaign mean we have to freeze rookie CB's now and unthaw them in a year.
 
No way! Quin has been awesome at SS!!! His run support would be missed, his coverage over the top would be missed, he was an average corner but he will be a great safety!
 
DocBar said:
He sucks at man coverage. That doesn't make him a bust as a nickel or in a zone defense.
Seeing that Quin was our best cb last season, I wouldn't be oppossed to swapping him and KJ. KJ is a good tackler and plays his best when everything's in front of him. He might have good value as a FS?
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He was a 1st round pick, if he have to demote him to a nickelback, that makes him a bust.
 
Rey said:
I don't understand how you can say "regardless"...

Spot duty on a decent defense with a competent D-coordinator and annointing a guy the full-time starter with unspectacular safety play and poor coaching are much different.

QB's can love what they want to love, but plenty of rookie corners have come into good situations and played ok. I don't think that the bad taste left in our mouths by kjax's rookie campaign mean we have to freeze rookie CB's now and unthaw them in a year.
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Well, maybe on some plays but right now Brandon should not play full time.
 
gary said:
Well, maybe on some plays but right now Brandon should not play full time.
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You let his play dictate how much time he gets. If he is out there playing solid football and making plays you leave him out there, if not you bring him along slower. Every player is different, some players just "get it"

Devin Mccourty (You know the guy we passed up for the rare opportunity to draft the "most NFL ready corner in the entire draft" :vincepalm: ) was thrown to the wolfs day 1, responded to the challenge, and the Pats never looked back.
 
Carr Bombed said:
You let his play dictate how much time he gets. If he is out there playing solid football and making plays you leave him out there, if not you bring him along slower. Every player is different, some players just "get it"

Devin Mccourty (You know the guy we passed up for the rare opportunity to draft the "most NFL ready corner in the entire draft" :vincepalm: ) was thrown to the wolfs day 1, responded to the challenge, and the Pats never looked back.
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I completely agree with you on this.
 
Carr Bombed said:
You let his play dictate how much time he gets. If he is out there playing solid football and making plays you leave him out there, if not you bring him along slower. Every player is different, some players just "get it"

Devin Mccourty (You know the guy we passed up for the rare opportunity to draft the "most NFL ready corner in the entire draft" :vincepalm: ) was thrown to the wolfs day 1, responded to the challenge, and the Pats never looked back.
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Funny you should mention that. KJ's play has obviously been good enough up until the second half of the 4th Qtr.

& the Patriots currently have the worse pass defense in the league & if you believe the highlights, McCourty is definitely part of the reason why.

I know that is not likely to be the case for the whole season, it's the Patriots, but consider this. So far they've played the offensive juggernauts Dolphins, Chargers, & Bills.... wait a minute, only 1 of those 3 teams can be considered an offensive juggernaut.
 
You don't build good football teams by yanking guys after 3 games in the season. Way to show some trust in your players coach.

If Jackson isn't playing I think a lot of people will find out that Allen isn't much better if any at all.
 
gary said:
I completely agree with you on this.
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I really don't think you do. You only believe this in as much as it does not pertain to KJ.

We hadn't heard from him in any of our games (which is usually a good thing for a CB), until the last few minutes of the 4th Qtr.
 
thunderkyss said:
Funny you should mention that. KJ's play has obviously been good enough up until the second half of the 4th Qtr.

& the Patriots currently have the worse pass defense in the league & if you believe the highlights, McCourty is definitely part of the reason why.

I know that is not likely to be the case for the whole season, it's the Patriots, but consider this. So far they've played the offensive juggernauts Dolphins, Chargers, & Bills.... wait a minute, only 1 of those 3 teams can be considered an offensive juggernaut.
Click to expand...

McCourty was burned repeatedly last year when he was put in similar situations like Jackson (I would say even worse).

He's still being burned repeatedly this year.

The other first rounder Kyle Wilson was sent to the doghouse last year, and is currently playing nickel for the Jets.
 
Carr Bombed said:
You let his play dictate how much time he gets. If he is out there playing solid football and making plays you leave him out there, if not you bring him along slower. Every player is different, some players just "get it"

Devin Mccourty (You know the guy we passed up for the rare opportunity to draft the "most NFL ready corner in the entire draft" :vincepalm: ) was thrown to the wolfs day 1, responded to the challenge, and the Pats never looked back.
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No, McCourty was very well protected the majority of the time, either by a safety, a DB playing next to him, or a LB.
He was also the benificiary of some timely pressure on the QBs.
 
76Texan said:
No, McCourty was very well protected the majority of the time, either by a safety, a DB playing next to him, or a LB.
He was also the benificiary of some timely pressure on the QBs.
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and all of KJs failures are do to what ? Bad safety play ? dont answer i already know. but i dont think you can blame all the stuff in front of KJ on the safties. I guess we need to designate 4 guys to cover Jacksons ass at all times, so he cant blow it.
 
thunderkyss said:
Funny you should mention that. KJ's play has obviously been good enough up until the second half of the 4th Qtr.

& the Patriots currently have the worse pass defense in the league & if you believe the highlights, McCourty is definitely part of the reason why.

I know that is not likely to be the case for the whole season, it's the Patriots, but consider this. So far they've played the offensive juggernauts Dolphins, Chargers, & Bills.... wait a minute, only 1 of those 3 teams can be considered an offensive juggernaut.
Click to expand...

Okay two can play this game...

Funny you should mention that. KJ's play has not been up to par and he still can't cover

& while the pats currently have the worst pass defense in the league, McCourty is a solid player for them and why are you even bringing that up when KJ was a starting CB on one of the worst pass defenses in LEAGUE HISTORY and he was the MAIN reason for that...not just "part of a reason".

I really don't get your K.J. love. You'll sit there and defend a dud to no end, but on the same hand will undermine the accomplishments of a actual good player like Antonio Smith. It doesn't make a lot of sense and frankly I don't get it.
 
76Texan said:
No, McCourty was very well protected the majority of the time, either by a safety, a DB playing next to him, or a LB.
He was also the benificiary of some timely pressure on the QBs.
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hmm...so basically the Pats treated him like every team treats a rookie corner. Gotcha. How many rookie corners are thrown on a island in this league? The guy made a TON of plays and is hands down better than Kareem Jackson. I really don't understand your argument here?
 
thunderkyss said:
I really don't think you do. You only believe this in as much as it does not pertain to KJ.

We hadn't heard from him in any of our games (which is usually a good thing for a CB), until the last few minutes of the 4th Qtr.
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There is not anything wrong with spotting Brandon on some plays but you should not just throw him out there if he is not ready ready yet. Corner is not easy to learn/play in the NFL. Some are ready to go from the start and a lot are not which is why I like that Gary and Wade are being careful about playing Brandon this year like they ought to be doing after last year. Good for them because obviously they don't feel like Harris is ready yet and their opinions matter a lot more than ours. Please no offense should be taken it is just the truth.
 
Also where was this "great pass rush" for the Pats last season...they only had 6 more sacks than Houston last year and that is with 54 more pass attemps against them...which = about two extra games of pass attempts.
 
badboy said:
He is on the roster, he cannot seem to play CB2, if he can start at nickle; do it.
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I never said he couldn't play nickle...if he can perform there then by all means, stick him there. However if we have to make him a nickleback in order to maximize his production and get something out of him......that makes him a bust as a former #1 pick. Nicklebacks aren't drafted in the 1st round. He was drafted to play on the outside for us and so far he hasn't displayed any skills that suggest that he can.
 
Carr Bombed said:
& while the pats currently have the worst pass defense in the league, McCourty is a good player for them and why are you even bringing that up when KJ was a starting CB on one of the worst pass defenses in LEAGUE HISTORY and he was the MAIN reason for that...not just "part of a reason".
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If you truly believe KJ was the MAIN reason for our defensive performance last season there really isn't anything I can say.

McCourty is the same player he was last year, but this year he doesn't look so good. Something outside the player's own ability is affecting his perceived play.

Watch McCourty, he isn't doing anything wrong, he's very sound in what he's doing.

Carr Bombed said:
I really don't get your K.J. love. You'll sit there and defend a dud to no end, but on the same hand will undermine the accomplishments of a actual good player like Antonio Smith. It doesn't make a lot of sense and frankly I don't get it.
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For me, it's the same as Chris Myers. I don't like it when people hate on a guy for no reason... or in this case, their arguments against said player are unfairly inflated. Don't get me wrong, those last three drives in New Orleans deserve criticism, correction, and disciplinary actions should have been taken.

& I've got absolutely nothing but love for Antonio. If you would say what you really want to say about Mario (instead of this disguised praise for Antonio) I wouldn't have to "undermine the accomplishments of a(n) actual good player"
 
Carr Bombed said:
I never said he couldn't play nickle...if he can perform there then by all means, stick him there. However if we have to make him a nickleback in order to maximize his production and get something out of him......that makes him a bust as a former #1 pick. Nicklebacks aren't drafted in the 1st round. He was drafted to play on the outside for us and so far he hasn't displayed any skills that suggest that he can.
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So you're saying Kyle Wilson is a bust?
 
Carr Bombed said:
I never said he couldn't play nickle...if he can perform there then by all means, stick him there. However if we have to make him a nickleback in order to maximize his production and get something out of him......that makes him a bust as a former #1 pick. Nicklebacks aren't drafted in the 1st round. He was drafted to play on the outside for us and so far he hasn't displayed any skills that suggest that he can.
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Though I'd agree he would then be a "bust" as a first rounder, I find that irrelevant... if he can help out in any way they need to make it happen, and maybe cut their losses later... He's there this year, and that's that...
 
thunderkyss said:
If you truly believe KJ was the MAIN reason for our defensive performance last season there really isn't anything I can say.

McCourty is the same player he was last year, but this year he doesn't look so good. Something outside the player's own ability is affecting his perceived play.

Watch McCourty, he isn't doing anything wrong, he's very sound in what he's doing.
Click to expand...

The safety spot also sucked, but Jackson equally sucked...it takes a trifold of suckitude in order to field a historically bad defense. Call it the perfect storm of incompetence...but Jackson equally made up 1/3 of that storm



thunderkyss said:
For me, it's the same as Chris Myers. I don't like it when people hate on a guy for no reason... or in this case, their arguments against said player are unfairly inflated. Don't get me wrong, those last three drives in New Orleans deserve criticism, correction, and disciplinary actions should have been taken.
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Umm Chris Myers did struggle and was a liability early on. Whether that was because of a lack of strength, technique, or just him battling injuries, it doesn't really matter. He was a weak link and much of the criticism against him was well deserved. However kudos to him for getting stronger or healthy and taking another step in his progression. He's a self made player

thunderkyss said:
& I've got absolutely nothing but love for Antonio. If you would say what you really want to say about Mario (instead of this disguised praise for Antonio) I wouldn't have to "undermine the accomplishments of a(n) actual good player"
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Give me a freaking break :rolleyes: "If you would say what you really want to say about Mario". Seriously what kind of crap is that?

What a freaking joke that response is. Why is it that some people on this board try to shove words in other people's mouths in order to form some argument that benefits them? Yeah, because you know EXACTLY what I'm secretly thinking of Mario at all times.

Hey, I'M A MARIO FAN...I even have a autographed authentic helmet of his in my trophy case. I'm just not a fan of Mario the "OLBer", but go ahead and think for me and tell everybody what you think I'm thinking. Also who the hell admits to purposely undermining another player who is obviously playing well just to benefit their argument...oh wait, you do. The same guy who tries to tell people what they're thinking. :vincepalm: I didn't know Miss Cleo posted on this board.
 
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drunkcookie said:
Though I'd agree he would then be a "bust" as a first rounder, I find that irrelevant... if he can help out in any way they need to make it happen, and maybe cut their losses later... He's there this year, and that's that...
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And I agree with this, by all means DO IT if it helps the team...however it still doesn't change the fact that he's a bust, given where he was drafted. Sadly this has been a trend with most of R. Smith's first round selections.
 
Carr Bombed said:
The safety spot also sucked, but Jackson equally sucked...it takes a trifold of suckitude in order to field a historically bad defense. Call it the perfect storm of incompetence...but Jackson equally made up 1/3 of that storm
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I never denied that
Carr Bombed said:
Umm Chris Myers did struggle and was a liability early on. Whether that was because of a lack of strength, technique, or just him battling injuries, it doesn't really matter. He was a weak link and much of the criticism against him was well deserved. However kudos to him for getting stronger or healthy and taking another step in his progression. He's a self made player
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No he didn't. His improvement over the last few years is marginal.
Carr Bombed said:
Give me a freaking break :rolleyes: "If you would say what you really want to say about Mario". Seriously what kind of crap is that?

What a freaking joke that response is. Why is it that some people on this board try to shove words in other people's mouths in order to form some argument that benefits them. Yeah, because you know EXACTLY what I'm secretly thinking of Mario at all times.
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Who is the best most consistent LB on the team? The best most consistent OL? How about the best, most consistent safety?

Who knows, & who cares? It's not a question. But we've got all these trade Mario threads & Antonio is the best DL thread & all kinds of subtle stabs at Mario.

But you're not part of that right?

Riiiiiiight.
Carr Bombed said:
Hey, I'M A MARIO FAN...I even have a autographed authentic helmet of his in my trophy case. I'm just not a fan of Mario the "OLBer", but go ahead and think for me and tell everybody what you think I'm thinking. Also who the hell admits to purposely undermining another player who is obviously playing well just to benefit their argument...oh wait, you do. The same guy who tries to tell people what they're thinking. :vincepalm: I didn't know Miss Cleo posted on this board.
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:ohsnap: he called me Miss Cleo
 
Carr Bombed said:
And I agree with this, by all means DO IT if it helps the team...however it still doesn't change the fact that he's a bust, given where he was drafted. Sadly this has been a trend with most of R. Smith's first round selections.
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If Kareem turns out to be a bust at #1 (which looks more than likely) then we'll add him to Okoye, that would make two of five first rounders drafted under Smith...

Brown is a great LT on one of the best olines in the league and has looked great as of late, he is NOT a bust...

Cushing? Had a great first year, bad second year and is having a good bounce-back year... we can't call him a bust yet because of one bad season out of two...

Watt? He looks great so far, but could he bust? Maybe... has he busted? No...

Far from "most"...
 
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