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Big concern on offense!

badboy

badboy

Hall of Fame
I have plenty of concerns on defense but Wade says Don't Worry Be Happy!
Still leery, but for now let's look at the other side of the ball. I am very happy overall with the O. and can see it being better than last season but..

Jacoby Jones needs to have a very good not just average year imo. He is probably my greatest concern barring injuries of course to Oline and even then Butler can handle LT & RT. I just cannot figure this player out. I had projected him to have a great year last season playing off AJ, now I just hold my breath when on the field. Will be interesting to see the new Johnson with some reps with first stringers & if JJ does not come prepared to step up he could move down the chart.
 
badboy said:
I have plenty of concerns on defense but Wade says Don't Worry Be Happy!
Still leery, but for now let's look at the other side of the ball. I am very happy overall with the O. and can see it being better than last season but..

Jacoby Jones needs to have a very good not just average year imo. He is probably my greatest concern barring injuries of course to Oline and even then Butler can handle LT & RT. I just cannot figure this player out. I had projected him to have a great year last season playing off AJ, now I just hold my breath when on the field. Will be interesting to see the new Johnson with some reps with first stringers & if JJ does not come prepared to step up he could move down the chart.
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Our 4th or so option on offense is a BIG concern of yours? You have all-world in AJ, far above average in OD, and a solid 3rd in Walter. At RB, you have Foster, Ward and Tate. Barring injury to our OL, we are officially locked and loaded on offense. My biggest concerns are on special teams and, to a degree, defense.
 
DocBar said:
Our 4th or so option on offense is a BIG concern of yours? You have all-world in AJ, far above average in OD, and a solid 3rd in Walter. At RB, you have Foster, Ward and Tate. Barring injury to our OL, we are officially locked and loaded on offense. My biggest concerns are on special teams and, to a degree, defense.
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Thread title says "biggest concern on offense". I am leaning towards a 15-1 record if defense is top 10-12. So yeah, a WR who can conceivably average 4-5 balls thrown his way & usually those will be downfield a ways is a concern. Call it nit picking if you want, but then try to imagine if JJ could get 60 receptions and avg 20 yards.
 
badboy said:
Thread title says "biggest concern on offense". I am leaning towards a 15-1 record if defense is top 10-12. So yeah, a WR who can conceivably average 4-5 balls thrown his way & usually those will be downfield a ways is a concern. Call it nit picking if you want, but then try to imagine if JJ could get 60 receptions and avg 20 yards.
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60 receptions at 20 yds a piece?? That's 1200 yds. from a back up.
 
DocBar said:
60 receptions at 20 yds a piece?? That's 1200 yds. from a back up.
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This is what I projected for JJ last season and AJ, OD and Foster/Tate/Ward would allow JJ to get some yardage if he can hold the ball. I think he can get open. Didn't he catch a pass late in one game that brought us to red zone and then Schaub threw an INT? Can't remember which game but believe I'm correct on the details. I like that line up anywhere on field and same when Walter is in rather than JJ.
 
Ndevine7 said:
thats high hopes from a player whose never had 600 yards. Id be real happy if he could get around 800
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I'd be happy also but think JJ has talents to beat out Walter but just has not done so. This is why I was surprised Texans got him back.
 
our offense need to start games better. last year we were terrible starting off games, and our defense being so terrible didn't help.
 
Only thing on offense you should be concerned about is how bad is Foster's hammy....

You know your team has come along way when fans are concerned about the 4th and 5th WR on their team.....

Feels kinda nice...
 
badboy said:
This is what I projected for JJ last season and AJ, OD and Foster/Tate/Ward would allow JJ to get some yardage if he can hold the ball. I think he can get open. Didn't he catch a pass late in one game that brought us to red zone and then Schaub threw an INT? Can't remember which game but believe I'm correct on the details. I like that line up anywhere on field and same when Walter is in rather than JJ.
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mmmm. ok
 
badboy said:
This is what I projected for JJ last season and AJ, OD and Foster/Tate/Ward would allow JJ to get some yardage if he can hold the ball. I think he can get open. Didn't he catch a pass late in one game that brought us to red zone and then Schaub threw an INT? Can't remember which game but believe I'm correct on the details. I like that line up anywhere on field and same when Walter is in rather than JJ.
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I believe you are thinking the Baltimore game and it was Andre that caught the late TD and JJ that caught the 2 pt conversion, THEN Schaub throws the pick....

The 2 pt conversion looked like it was meant for AJ...
 
badboy said:
I have plenty of concerns on defense but Wade says Don't Worry Be Happy!
Still leery, but for now let's look at the other side of the ball. I am very happy overall with the O. and can see it being better than last season but..

Jacoby Jones needs to have a very good not just average year imo. He is probably my greatest concern barring injuries of course to Oline and even then Butler can handle LT & RT. I just cannot figure this player out. I had projected him to have a great year last season playing off AJ, now I just hold my breath when on the field. Will be interesting to see the new Johnson with some reps with first stringers & if JJ does not come prepared to step up he could move down the chart.
Click to expand...

I agree, JJ has great potential if he could just catch the F'n football. Every year we have such high hopes for him and think that he's going to mature and turn the corner and be the great WR that we all know he can be. I still hold my breath every time he takes a punt return and find myself saying, just go down and hold onto the ball. JJ has had more than enough time to mature and become that great WR. This should be a make it or break it year for him, if he sucks then we should look elsewhere for his replacement. You can only invest so many years in a guy before you have to move on.

Other offensive concerns would be depth on the O-line. If our starters go down this could be a very long season.
 
im concerned with

-Eric winston ... on how hes going to suck and then preceed to be on radio week on how he needs to get better
-Can Brisles stay healthy ???? knocks on wood
-how good will our FB play be
-Will Foster be rdy for wk1 ????? !!!!!!!!!!!! thats the big one imo
 
Offensive line depth and wr depth are scary right now. If Meyers went down we are hosed same for any wideout.
 
Norg said:
im concerned with

-Will Foster be rdy for wk1 ????? !!!!!!!!!!!! thats the big one imo
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that's actually the least of our worries. We don't want to rush him, which could lead to an issue that could nag him all year long. Or an issue that keeps him from performing at 100% for 5 or 6 weeks, ala Revis.


If sitting him two weeks will help ensure we will put this thing behind us & he's 100% week 3, then I'll sit him two weeks.
 
JJ will be JJ. Tease us with a circus catch and then......well, you know.

My only real concern is OLine depth. I know they said they wanted a 5th WR but honestly I don't see it being a big need. And even if AF is held out a couple weeks, Tate and Ward can certainly keep the defense honest while the Air Corps rips them a new one.

Oh, and our ST still suck......:gun:
 
b0ng said:
Offensive line depth and wr depth are scary right now. If Meyers went down we are hosed same for any wideout.
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thunderkyss said:
that's actually the least of our worries. We don't want to rush him, which could lead to an issue that could nag him all year long. Or an issue that keeps him from performing at 100% for 5 or 6 weeks, ala Revis.


If sitting him two weeks will help ensure we will put this thing behind us & he's 100% week 3, then I'll sit him two weeks.
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prostock101 said:
JJ will be JJ. Tease us with a circus catch and then......well, you know.

My only real concern is OLine depth. I know they said they wanted a 5th WR but honestly I don't see it being a big need. And even if AF is held out a couple weeks, Tate and Ward can certainly keep the defense honest while the Air Corps rips them a new one.

Oh, and our ST still suck......:gun:
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OL depth is a big concern for me, also.
I agree with TK on Foster. Sitting him for a couple of weeks would be the smart thing to do, and we all know how Kubiak likes to be "smart" with injuries.
I worry about WR depth behind AJ every year. The big guy is what drives our offense, imo.
 
Wolf6151 said:
I agree, JJ has great potential if he could just catch the F'n football. Every year we have such high hopes for him and think that he's going to mature and turn the corner and be the great WR that we all know he can be. I still hold my breath every time he takes a punt return and find myself saying, just go down and hold onto the ball. JJ has had more than enough time to mature and become that great WR. This should be a make it or break it year for him, if he sucks then we should look elsewhere for his replacement. You can only invest so many years in a guy before you have to move on.

Other offensive concerns would be depth on the O-line. If our starters go down this could be a very long season.
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Will this mis-conception ever die?

AJ dropped a higher percentage of balls thrown to him than JJ last year.

Next....?
 
I just hope the team learns how to play an entire four quarters of football. If they can do that they will be fine.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Docbar,
ProFootballFocus.com keep the only stats for this parameter.

Drop Percentage: Wide Receivers

Essentially last year, JJ had twice the percentage drops as AJ.:kubepalm:
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Thanks CnD. I forgot I had these guys on my favorites bar.

_superMario90_ said:
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1746371&postcount=45

Here's a link to some links showing incomplete pass info at the bottom to include drops and percent caught.
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Thanks for the links.
There seems to be some ambiguity between the two sites as far as methodology. Either way, Kevin Walter should be getting a golden glove award!! LOL
 
Agree on the O-Line depth. Clearly its the greatest concern for this side of the ball imo. I am not worried about WR depth so much as our TEs are a huge part of our passing game and Open Daniels in all honesty is our #2 WR. Caldwell needs to get healthy ASAP!! How long is he expect to be out for anyway?
 
:hankpalm:
Tailgate said:
Agree on the O-Line depth. Clearly its the greatest concern for this side of the ball imo. I am not worried about WR depth so much as our TEs are a huge part of our passing game and Open Daniels in all honesty is our #2 WR. Caldwell needs to get healthy ASAP!! How long is he expect to be out for anyway?
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Caldwell has a high ankle sprain, right? That could be a lingering issue for most of the season. Hard to say how long he'll be out since Kubiak only speaks to team Dr's when he's in his cone of silence. I still haven't figured out how to post bleepity-bleep-bleep pictures
 
DocBar said:
Thanks CnD. I forgot I had these guys on my favorites bar.

Thanks for the links.
There seems to be some ambiguity between the two sites as far as methodology. Either way, Kevin Walter should be getting a golden glove award!! LOL
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Agreed.

In the profootballfocus source, they list Jordan Shipley as perfect, yet as read in the responses, evidence shown that he did have a drop, so what defines a drop, definately contributes to the ambiguity you cite.

Still, even with profootballfocus, as my intent wasn't to say JJ was better than AJ, in any way, but rather point out that JJ being a drop-a-holic is more myth than fact. Continued comparisons for the 2010 data listed in the profootballfocus link puts JJ in the high end of a list of players such as Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, DeSean Jackson, Steve Smiths to name a few, which I wouldn't lump any as players that "suck" based on their penchant for drops.

I will come to the side of the fence where the fans deem JJ's drops as chronic
and say that some of his drops have been somewhat inopportune at critical times. Combined with his jeckyl and hyde return issues he gave us for a season, it's easy to slip into the mindset that JJ has butter fingers. However, I don't think that the calling for his replacement has much more merit than calling for Wes Welker to be shipped out of NE as a reciever. Put down the haterade, and get you a big cool glass of Koolaide my friends.:koolaid:

If JJ is the big concern on offense, then We as fans, are in for a REAL TREAT this year.
 
Norg said:
im concerned with

-Eric winston ... on how hes going to suck and then preceed to be on radio week on how he needs to get better
-Can Brisles stay healthy ???? knocks on wood
-how good will our FB play be
-Will Foster be rdy for wk1 ????? !!!!!!!!!!!! thats the big one imo
Click to expand...
He did pretty well this preseason from what I saw and I hope he continues to proceed.
 
_superMario90_ said:
Agreed.

In the profootballfocus source, they list Jordan Shipley as perfect, yet as read in the responses, evidence shown that he did have a drop, so what defines a drop, definately contributes to the ambiguity you cite.

Still, even with profootballfocus, as my intent wasn't to say JJ was better than AJ, in any way, but rather point out that JJ being a drop-a-holic is more myth than fact. Continued comparisons for the 2010 data listed in the profootballfocus link puts JJ in the high end of a list of players such as Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, DeSean Jackson, Steve Smiths to name a few, which I wouldn't lump any as players that "suck" based on their penchant for drops.

I will come to the side of the fence where the fans deem JJ's drops as chronic
and say that some of his drops have been somewhat inopportune at critical times. Combined with his jeckyl and hyde return issues he gave us for a season, it's easy to slip into the mindset that JJ has butter fingers. However, I don't think that the calling for his replacement has much more merit than calling for Wes Welker to be shipped out of NE as a reciever. Put down the haterade, and get you a big cool glass of Koolaide my friends.:koolaid:

If JJ is the big concern on offense, then We as fans, are in for a REAL TREAT this year.
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Stats Inc includes evidently RBs and TEs. From your link, in the AFC categoryhttp://scores.nbcsports.msnbc.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=AFC&type=Receiving&rank=232&year=, its interesting to see Arian Foster and OD there.....and their number of dropped passes.
 
BullNation4Life said:
Only thing on offense you should be concerned about is how bad is Foster's hammy....

You know your team has come along way when fans are concerned about the 4th and 5th WR on their team.....

Feels kinda nice...
Click to expand...
WHile Foster;s injury is a concern we do have two replacements to step up. Who takes JJ place, Johnson I guess?
 
Wolf6151 said:
I agree, JJ has great potential if he could just catch the F'n football. Every year we have such high hopes for him and think that he's going to mature and turn the corner and be the great WR that we all know he can be. I still hold my breath every time he takes a punt return and find myself saying, just go down and hold onto the ball. JJ has had more than enough time to mature and become that great WR. This should be a make it or break it year for him, if he sucks then we should look elsewhere for his replacement. You can only invest so many years in a guy before you have to move on.

Other offensive concerns would be depth on the O-line. If our starters go down this could be a very long season.
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Jeff FUller our next draft's first round pick.
 
badboy said:
WHile Foster;s injury is a concern we do have two replacements to step up. Who takes JJ place, Johnson I guess?
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Remember that for vested veterans (four years or more of NFL service), their annual salary is guaranteed if they're on the opening day roster. As a result, if the Texans are looking to add a 5th WR, they may not do it until after the Colts game.
 
ChampionTexan said:
Remember that for vested veterans (four years or more of NFL service), their annual salary is guaranteed if they're on the opening day roster. As a result, if the Texans are looking to add a 5th WR, they may not do it until after the Colts game.
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Pollard was example of this.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
He still showed his bo bo's on his main weakness......pass protection.
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Why do you think he does struggle in pass pro? Not a great fit there or what is the reason? I think overall the starting five have done a nice job so far though.
 
DocBar said:
Do you know the formula they use to determine a drop? I was OK with the way PFF does theirs. It looks like the most targeted receivers are leading the list on the link you provided.
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They do not give their formula anywhere that I can find. These are not by % unfortunately, so that they are out of context.
 
gary said:
Why do you think he does struggle in pass pro? Not a great fit there or what is the reason? I think overall the starting five have done a nice job so far though.
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He gets beat regularly and often in pass pro is why I would say that. He struggles to keep faster edge rushers from getting around him and he doesn't use his hands particularly well. He's also not great in ZBS and he admits it. He would rather lock onto a DT/DE and simply drive them backwards. He might actually be better suited for G or C, but I haven't studied him enough to say that for sure. He would definitely be smart enough to make good calls for the OL as C, I think.
In a perfect world, we would draft an elite LT and move Brown to RT, where I think he would be a great fit, and have Winston for depth.
 
gary said:
Why do you think he does struggle in pass pro? Not a great fit there or what is the reason? I think overall the starting five have done a nice job so far though.
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My personal opinion. On the football field, he's somewhat slow of foot and mind.
 
DocBar said:
He gets beat regularly and often in pass pro is why I would say that. He struggles to keep faster edge rushers from getting around him and he doesn't use his hands particularly well. He's also not great in ZBS and he admits it. He would rather lock onto a DT/DE and simply drive them backwards. He might actually be better suited for G or C, but I haven't studied him enough to say that for sure. He would definitely be smart enough to make good calls for the OL as C, I think.
In a perfect world, we would draft an elite LT and move Brown to RT, where I think he would be a great fit, and have Winston for depth.
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CloakNNNdagger said:
My personal opinion. On the football field, he's somewhat slow of foot and mind.
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I understand that is the way he is in pass pro but I just wanted to see if he will always be that way.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
My personal opinion. On the football field, he's somewhat slow of foot and mind.
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Do you really think he's slow of mind? I think he's slow of foot and lacking the athletic ability to play the position properly. I think he's smart enough, though. Maybe that's from listening to him work on his post-NFL career...in the media.
 
With exception of Myers, I think our Oline would do better in a knocked them back power type O rather than ZBS.
 
gary said:
I understand that is the way he is in pass pro but I just wanted to see if he will always be that way.
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I think he will. It's just one of those things where he seems to lack the physical ability to play the position at a high level. I think the reason our OL has looked so much better the last couple of years is that Kubiak realizes this and designs a lot of plays that move the pocket by using play action and bootlegs so often. That helps to keep a DE/OLB in contain mode.
 
DocBar said:
Do you really think he's slow of mind? I think he's slow of foot and lacking the athletic ability to play the position properly. I think he's smart enough, though. Maybe that's from listening to him work on his post-NFL career...in the media.
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When I said "slow of mind," I was referring to slow of mind to foot translation......and qualified "on the field." Keep in mind, when you are running the ball in a ZBS, once you get the hang of it, it is highly routine. When you are pass protecting, you are for the most part at the mercy of the D as to how and where you will be attacked. You must be quick of mind and foot to adjust on the fly....or you look like Winston. Winston knows where the microphone is at all times. It is unlikely that he would ever have a problem picking up and adjusting to an inch or two of its movement should his nose ever hit it.:kitten:

And Gary, I believe what you see is what you get........now and forever.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
When I said "slow of mind," I was referring to slow of mind to foot translation......and qualified "on the field." Keep in mind, when you are running the ball in a ZBS, once you get the hang of it, it is highly routine. When you are pass protecting, you are for the most part at the mercy of the D as to how and where you will be attacked. You must be quick of mind and foot to adjust on the fly....or you look like Winston. Winston knows where the microphone is at all times. It is unlikely that he would ever have a problem picking up and adjusting to an inch or two of its movement should his nose ever hit it.:kitten:

And Gary, I believe what you see is what you get........now and forever.
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Aha!! What I call athletic abilty!! Winston is not the only one here slow of mind...:spy:
 
badboy said:
Pollard was example of this.
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No he wasn't - Pollard only had three years service when we signed him, so he wasn't going to be guaranteed regardless. Everything I've heard about Pollard points in the direction of an injury that wasn't healed enough to allow him to play until after the season started.
 
Wolf6151 said:
LOL, Fuller is obviously your latest mancrush since Gerhart.
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No that was Brandon Harris. Hopefully, Johnson will step up at WR as I am concerned JJ will have a repeat of last season, so-so.
If the free agent can do as well in regular season as the one game he played in pre-season, I would prob shift my focus off Fuller. That would be best scenario as I think my Nose Tackle will probably move up board to a first round by end of this season.
We have major doubts at #2/3 WR, ILB, #2 Cb and NT. IMO, a solid Nose would lessen the concern at ILB. Almost taking care of two spots with one player.
 
badboy said:
No that was Brandon Harris. Hopefully, Johnson will step up at WR as I am concerned JJ will have a repeat of last season, so-so.
If the free agent can do as well in regular season as the one game he played in pre-season, I would prob shift my focus off Fuller. That would be best scenario as I think my Nose Tackle will probably move up board to a first round by end of this season.
We have major doubts at #2/3 WR, ILB, #2 Cb and NT. IMO, a solid Nose would lessen the concern at ILB. Almost taking care of two spots with one player.
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What is the major concern at #2/3 WR? Walters is :money: and everyone knows OD is our #2. JJ will be JJ and it seems like we'll just have to get used to it. I assume you mean Bryant Johnson stepping up.
I agree with the rest.
 
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