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if we have a top ten defense?

ATXtexanfan

ATXtexanfan

Hall of Fame
if we have a top ten defense does it matter how mario plays? i'll take an 11 man unit over an all pro olb. so far everything has looked improved but everyone is all over mario. if he fails and leaves we have barwin and reid for next year and dont have to worry about his deal. i'm done with all the mario talk cause it looks like we will have an attacking D with or without him being special.
 
Hell no it wouldn't matter how Mario plays. That would actually be an ideal situation, considering his contract situation.
 
For someone who's done with all the mario talk, you sure started a thread that will inevitably be completely about him. Really, people are getting too hung up on Mario's performance, he's a very valuable player to have on this defense
 
That's the best you could come up with? How about if we have a top 10 defense to go with our top 5 offense, can we threepeat in the Super Bowl? :turtle:
 
ATXtexanfan said:
if we have a top ten defense does it matter how mario plays? i'll take an 11 man unit over an all pro olb. so far everything has looked improved but everyone is all over mario. if he fails and leaves we have barwin and reid for next year and dont have to worry about his deal. i'm done with all the mario talk cause it looks like we will have an attacking D with or without him being special.
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Since you are done with Mario talk, I do not expect any response from you, but you asked so here goes again. Of course it matters how each and every player performs. What many readers don't seem to get is Mario is different than any other player due to cap hit of apprx. $14 million and is in last year of contract. More importantly, unless he has a completely abysmal season, he should bring a very lucrative trade offer from at least a couple 4-3 teams. I have repeatedly said I am not advocating a trade but want to listen to any offer that betters Texans. I don't want to see Mario walk away after season for nothing. If he is real good, he will be offered a real sweet deal or we can acccept a trade. Texans are in the driver seat.

We only have 3 pre-season games behind us and Mario looks incrementally better, but he has not distinguished himself. His job is to blow blockers up, toss opponents aside like a tornado and cause havoc in the backfield. Same as when he was a 4-3 DE. Can he do this? I think he can. Will he is the issue.

Sure it is a team sport but #1 pick is supposed to do his job and then some whether it is a QB, RB, CB, LT, OLB or Mario Williams. I think it was very wise for Wade to hedge his bets by drafting Reed.
 
badboy said:
I think it was very wise for Wade to hedge his bets by drafting Reed.
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Drafting Reed wasn't about hedging bets. They absolutely had to find OLB help in the draft. They had 3 guys on the roster, (Williams, Barwin, & Nading) penciled in at OLB. Barwin was coming off a major ankle injury. I thought they would draft 2 OLBs, but finding Braman as a UDFA seems to be a lucky break.
 
I got to agree with ya even though I am a fan of trading him, it isn't going to happen and the D is doing very well. So it is really a mute point, we going into the season with what we got and as a unit they look real good, don't know about top 10 but they look damn good so who really cares what we do with MW ... LONG As they put rings on their fingers at the end of the yr who really cares....

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
 
gtexan02 said:
Vikings gave up a 1st, 2 3rds, and swapped a 6th for Allen. I would expect something similar for Mario.
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Man. if that was offered, I do it right after I recovered from fainting. Oh, lordy, I am off to figure a draft with two firsts, a second, three thirds...:dancer:
 
You draft guys to build a defense. A starting defense is composed of 11 players. If none of them are standing out statistically but your defense is in or around the top ten (admittedly unlikely but still...) then you win games and hang up your "Mission Accomplished" banner. Mario isn't the most "fluid" OLB I've ever seen and still looks kind of stiff to me but who cares. He's making his presence felt and other players are benefitting from it. He's not accumulating stats at the rate we're accustomed to but notice that nobody is in a hurry to be the first team to ignore Mario Williams.

I suspect that the first offense that tries to get away with that will pay dearly.
 
"His job is to blow blockers up, toss opponents aside like a tornado and cause havoc in the backfield. Same as when he was a 4-3 DE."

I'm sorry, but when did he ever do this? Someone please show me a clip of him in "tornado mode". And while you're at it. Show me all these double teams he was supposedly up against as a DE.
 
Even if Mario doesn't have a big statistical impact you know that teams have to gameplan for him anyway, and that opens things up for others around him. I think the Texans have the right idea with him this season, there isn't really a lot to lose by letting him play it out.

If he isn't worth the money he's offered elsewhere to our team, let him walk.

I'd rather have 2nd year Brooks Reed starting OLB than Rookie Brooks Reed anyway, he'll have more time to develop and similar to Barwin's rookie season he'll have his chance to make an impact.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
if we have a top ten defense does it matter how mario plays? i'll take an 11 man unit over an all pro olb. so far everything has looked improved but everyone is all over mario. if he fails and leaves we have barwin and reid for next year and dont have to worry about his deal. i'm done with all the mario talk cause it looks like we will have an attacking D with or without him being special.
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If we have a top ten defense... then throw in a badass Mario.... we'll have the greatest defense of All TIME
 
Hervoyel said:
You draft guys to build a defense. A starting defense is composed of 11 players. If none of them are standing out statistically but your defense is in or around the top ten (admittedly unlikely but still...) then you win games and hang up your "Mission Accomplished" banner. Mario isn't the most "fluid" OLB I've ever seen and still looks kind of stiff to me but who cares. He's making his presence felt and other players are benefitting from it. He's not accumulating stats at the rate we're accustomed to but notice that nobody is in a hurry to be the first team to ignore Mario Williams.

I suspect that the first offense that tries to get away with that will pay dearly.
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I don't care so much about statistics as very misleading but I do watch the player. If any are not playing as he should, it is time to consider a replacement.
If Mario makes his presence known and others create the havoc, cool beans. I need to see a bit more impact from him and soon.
 
prostock101 said:
"His job is to blow blockers up, toss opponents aside like a tornado and cause havoc in the backfield. Same as when he was a 4-3 DE."

I'm sorry, but when did he ever do this? Someone please show me a clip of him in "tornado mode". And while you're at it. Show me all these double teams he was supposedly up against as a DE.
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I said it is his job, never said he was or was not doing the job.
 
welsh texan said:
Even if Mario doesn't have a big statistical impact you know that teams have to gameplan for him anyway, and that opens things up for others around him. I think the Texans have the right idea with him this season, there isn't really a lot to lose by letting him play it out.

If he isn't worth the money he's offered elsewhere to our team, let him walk.

I'd rather have 2nd year Brooks Reed starting OLB than Rookie Brooks Reed anyway, he'll have more time to develop and similar to Barwin's rookie season he'll have his chance to make an impact.
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But see this is the point that I and others bring up, we don't want him to just walk. We want something for him. If he is offered a long term contract beginning at $12m next season and say 5 years $75m & we don't match, I want something in return.
 
Hervoyel said:
You draft guys to build a defense. A starting defense is composed of 11 players. If none of them are standing out statistically but your defense is in or around the top ten (admittedly unlikely but still...) then you win games and hang up your "Mission Accomplished" banner. Mario isn't the most "fluid" OLB I've ever seen and still looks kind of stiff to me but who cares. He's making his presence felt and other players are benefitting from it. He's not accumulating stats at the rate we're accustomed to but notice that nobody is in a hurry to be the first team to ignore Mario Williams.

I suspect that the first offense that tries to get away with that will pay dearly.
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Really? Seriously? Really? This is like the 5 time I have read this type post. How are you coming up with this?
 
badboy said:
But see this is the point that I and others bring up, we don't want him to just walk. We want something for him. If he is offered a long term contract beginning at $12m next season and say 5 years $75m & we don't match, I want something in return.
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So why don't we lock him up now?

Guarantee him $40million, $14 million signing bonus lock him up for the next 3 years or so. If he doesn't curl your toes as an OLB, I'm sure well still get good offers for him as a 4-3 DE.

The $14 million bonus would equate to the same cap hit we're taking this year.
 
thunderkyss said:
So why don't we lock him up now?

Guarantee him $40million, $14 million signing bonus lock him up for the next 3 years or so. If he doesn't curl your toes as an OLB, I'm sure well still get good offers for him as a 4-3 DE.

The $14 million bonus would equate to the same cap hit we're taking this year.
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Now you are making the topic interesting. I think both Texans and Mario want to see how he does a few games into the season. You don't want a contract that will turn off another team and $40m guaranteed (in your scenario he would get $14m + first year salary say $12m = $26m first season. WHooeee! That's a lot.)
 
badboy said:
But see this is the point that I and others bring up, we don't want him to just walk. We want something for him. If he is offered a long term contract beginning at $12m next season and say 5 years $75m & we don't match, I want something in return.
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Ditto. If we are forced to F tag him, he will lose value in the trading market because the Texans lose their leverage. I really do wonder what Mario would fetch on the trade market right now. Could they get a decent WR or OLB and some picks? Because I think that would have a more positive impact on the 2011 Texans than retaining MW.
 
prostock101 said:
"His job is to blow blockers up, toss opponents aside like a tornado and cause havoc in the backfield. Same as when he was a 4-3 DE."

I'm sorry, but when did he ever do this? Someone please show me a clip of him in "tornado mode". And while you're at it. Show me all these double teams he was supposedly up against as a DE.
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Does anyone have a link to the clip of Mario tackling Jamal Lewis against the Browns?
 
mussop said:
Really? Seriously? Really? This is like the 5 time I have read this type post. How are you coming up with this?
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By watching the games.

Seems to me as if the people who keep saying Mario isn't doing anything think he's supposed to be in the QB's grill every single play.

Personally, I'm happy that we finally have other people that are stepping up.
 
prostock101 said:
I'm sorry, but when did he ever do this? Someone please show me a clip of him in "tornado mode".
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Surely you don't believe this man got up there all by himself, do you?

41798_51490978916_6307_n.jpg
 
Dutchrudder said:
Ditto. If we are forced to F tag him, he will lose value in the trading market because the Texans lose their leverage. I really do wonder what Mario would fetch on the trade market right now. Could they get a decent WR or OLB and some picks? Because I think that would have a more positive impact on the 2011 Texans than retaining MW.
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IMO, they could probably do well and I'd be surprised of Smith hasn't fielded a few calls asking what we want.
I know I've been obsessed with MW lately, but I honestly think he's a very good DE. He may be a great DE with the right system and supporting cast. He just isn't cutting it as a WOLB in a 3-4. Anywho, I'm getting off the MW hate wagon and leaving it alone from now on....
 
Rey said:
By watching the games.


Personally, I'm happy that we finally have other people that are stepping up.
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You keep saying this but you dont want to back it up. Break it down show us where we are wrong. Its right there on film.

Here I'll go first.


First defensive series. Play 1 Mario is lined up on left side in a 2pt stance. Play is a wash for Mario.

Second play, 2nd down and 3 to go, Mario left side 2 pt stance play is a wash for Mario.

Third play, Right side 2pt stance, TE #46 comes in motion to his side, ball is snapped TE engages Mario solo and ties him up and seals him off from play. RB gains 4 yards and is tackled before Mario and TE disengage.

4th play Mario lined up on right side in 2pt stance. Run up the middle wash for Mario.

5th play, 3rd and 5, shotgun formation, Mario on left side in 3pt stance. Gets decent jump but is effectively sealed of by (second year player) RT #76. QB is sacked pretty quick so you can't give Mario a neg on this play but clearly wasn't a threat in play.

2nd defensive series first play right side 2pt stance, (I think its him anyway, channel 13's coverage sucks more than our secondary last year.) follows RB into flats. Pass to other side, wash.

Second play, left side 2pt stance. Good jump and finally a legit move (swim move) to get past RT #76 and meet A Smith at QB. Smith actually gets there first but no doubt Mario wold of gotten sack is Smith hadn't. First impact play of the game for Mario.

3rd play, left side, 3pt stance. This play is hard to judge because of poor angle but it appears Mario gets close to QB by taking his usual looping around the tackle move that he has over used over the years. Of course if not for A Smith blowing by the RG and getting pressure from up the middle the QB could of just stepped up in the pocket and Mario would of run himself out of the play like opposing QB's have done countless times over the years.

3rd defensive series

Mario is out until the 4th play. 7:14 2nd quarter. Right side 2pt stance, Mario over commits to inside and RB runs through his hole for 8 yards.

5th play, 2pt stance quick pass wash.

6th play, left side, 2pt stance, Mario hurdles RB and gets pressure on QB. This is the kind of play we need from the WOLB position.

7th play, right side, 2pt stance, run up the middle, wash.

8th play, right side, 2 pt stance, Mario blocked well by TE #46, Staley LT slides over to help unnecessarily.


4th defensive series

first play, Left side, 2pt stance. TE #46 comes in motion to Mario's side and seals off Mario. Mario ties up TE for a second and makes a dive at the RB missing him and falling to the ground. This can't happen. mario needs to be pushing TE's around not standing there locked up with them one on one.

2nd play, left side right side 2pt stance, delay up the middle wash.

3rd play, 3rd down and 4 to go. Left side 3 pt stance, even though it was a quick pass and Mario was a non factor, I give him props for blowing of the line with speed and power. If it had been a slower developing play, there is a good chance Mario would of at least gotten pressure on the QB. Thats the good news. The bad is that he was in a 3 pt stance where he belongs.

5th defensive series

Did not play.

6th defensive series

30 seconds left in half. Left side, 3 pt stance, Mario runs an inside stunt where he basically bull rushes the Center and pushed him back into the QB. More evidence that he needs to be back on the line with his hand in the dirt.

Second play, left side, 3 pt stance, Solo blocked by #76 RT but still looked good off the line IN A 3PT STANCE!

Now if you care to debate any of these plays----DO IT PLEASE.

We need our 11 best players on the field. We don't need to be experimenting to the degree that we are with Mario. I know Phillilps has forgotten more football than I'll ever know. That doesn't mean that he isn't making a mistake. Before is all said and done I bet Phililips goes back to his original plan when he arrived here. Put speed on the edges and move Mario around the defensive line to exploit weaknesses on the opposing offensive lines.
 
mussop said:
You keep saying this but you dont want to back it up. Break it down show us where we are wrong. Its right there on film.
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Tk, maybe I'm just weird but I dont feel the need to back anything up by re watching game tapes.

No offense to guys who do that on a regular basis, but I often have other things I want to do with my time.

I used to watch film of games over and over again, but I found that I was overanalyzing stuff. Sometimes first impressions are good enough. Sometimes a closer look is needed when you are wanting to see more intricate things like technique, hand placement, foot placement.

I'll leave the game tape watching to you guys and the analyst. It's a waste of time for me and doesn't prove anything except that you have the time and the want to.

For instance, in the Troy nolan thread you were insistent that the qb pretty much threw the ball to him and didnt see him standing there on his first int, but the qb clearly states the opposite when he talks about it. you urged that I go back and look at the play.

I argued that it was a good read by Nolan and he came up and made the play and was not gifted the pass as you were alluding to.

And I didn't have to go and watch film to see that.

I'm not against watching film at all. I'm not saying that you don't pick up on things by watching film.

What I'm saying is that just because you guys have more time or want to devote more into that doesn't mean you are right and im wrong or vice versa.

Against the niners I saw a mw that was active, put pressure on the o line and got pressure on the qb. I also saw him continue to struggle a bit making plays against the run.

I think Mario is going to do a fine job at olb and if you want to debate that we can. But if one if your criteria for debate is posting screen shots or going back and watching a bunch of film, I'm afraid that I'll have to gracefully bow out.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
if we have a top ten defense does it matter how mario plays? i'll take an 11 man unit over an all pro olb. so far everything has looked improved but everyone is all over mario. if he fails and leaves we have barwin and reid for next year and dont have to worry about his deal. i'm done with all the mario talk cause it looks like we will have an attacking D with or without him being special.
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To be a top ten defense in the NFL I believe all 11 players need to be productive. So ipso facto, if we have a top ten defense, Mario would have had a good season.

It may not be in sack #'s but I guarentee he is impacting the offensive gameplay when the other team comes into the game.
 
Rey said:
Does anyone have a link to the game from Mario's rookie season where he basically threw the lineman into the RB for a tackle...
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Does anyone have a link to that game where Mario ran way up the field (using no moves) and barely missed the QB only to have the QB step up in the pocket due to no push from the DT and complete a long pass down the field? Just wondering cuz it was cool. :vincepalm:
 
sakebomb said:
Does anyone have a link to that game where Mario ran way up the field (using no moves) and barely missed the QB only to have the QB step up in the pocket due to no push from the DT and complete a long pass down the field? Just wondering cuz it was cool. :vincepalm:
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No. I don't have a link for that, but I do have a link to him running through arizona's ot last year and getting a sack.
 
Rey said:
For instance, in the Troy nolan thread you were insistent that the qb pretty much threw the ball to him and didnt see him standing there on his first int, but the qb clearly states the opposite when he talks about it. you urged that I go back and look at the play.

I argued that it was a good read by Nolan and he came up and made the play and was not gifted the pass as you were alluding to.
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I have no idea what you are talking about. Wasn't me.:runaway:
 
sakebomb said:
Does anyone have a link to that game where Mario ran way up the field (using no moves) and barely missed the QB only to have the QB step up in the pocket due to no push from the DT and complete a long pass down the field? Just wondering cuz it was cool. :vincepalm:
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You will have to be more specific. :turtle:
 
Rey said:
Rey said:
.

For instance, in the Troy nolan thread you were insistent that the qb pretty much threw the ball to him and didnt see him standing there on his first int, but the qb clearly states the opposite when he talks about it. you urged that I go back and look at the play.

I argued that it was a good read by Nolan and he came up and made the play and was not gifted the pass as you were alluding to.

And I didn't have to go and watch film to see that.
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... that Nolan part my point remains.
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How's that?

He said he saw Nolan, but thought the receiver was going to run in front of not behind Nolan.... That's still a gifted pass.


♪
 
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