Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!

If Mario is so 'terrible' at OLB...

House of Pain

House of Pain

Wild Speculator
why not move him to ILB?

I know it sounds crazy, but if Wade (and Herring) claim they can control who is rushing at all times, then why not have Mario in the Middle and stop this "we can't stop the inside-the-tackle run" nonsense? Mario has established himself as a run stopper on the line, what would change that on the second level? He could still be a devastating pass rush threat and would never have to drop into coverage and use that supposed 'bull rush' of his? We may even move Cushing to the OLB position where he may do a little bit better since he's not pregnant anymore.

:kitten:

Am I crazy?
 
Honestly I think he could be serviceable but he is pullin down 14 million ..... u can buy a lot of talent for 14 million... I hate to see him go but if he doesn't show anything in game 3 on Saturday we should look at trading him to a 4-3 for a better # 2 cb and some drat pics( not my idea but I agree with texan mike on this one).. We got plenty of what looks to be good talent behind him brooks reed, nading etc ..... like I said though I hope he proves me wrong sat against the niners and blows it up for 2 sacs and and assload of stops .... just don't think he will do it... also mario will line up everywhere so moving him to ilb won't really make a difference plus then you got to worry about him covering a back or slot receiver .... He needs to show up big on saturday and make it worth the 14 mil.
 
I don't mind doing what works... if that's moving him to end and having everything else dominoe from there, that's fine...

I'm not trusting in Mario to take to this position (OLB), I'm really just trusting WP to make the best decision for the D...
 
I have been saying this for awhile.


mussop said:
I just dont see Mario figuring out OLB anytime soon and we cant afford to not have the best players on the field who give us our best chance to win. If he cant except playing where its best for the team then we should explore trading him. I still believe this move was made to please an unhappy Mario.

People are going to think Im crazy but if we arent going to put him back at DE I would like to see him and Cushing switch positions for a bit to see if he could handle ILB. At least his size would bulk up the middle a little bit. He and the team would be better served with him trying to split Guards and Centers than sitting outside engaged/locked up or trying to run around Tackles IMO.

Some of you older guys might remember a 300 lbs ILB that played for the Steelers back in the day, Levon Kirkland. Dude was a beast.
Click to expand...

mussop said:
The way I understand it is that both ILBs are responsible for runners coming through the A and B gaps with the Weak ILB having more pass coverage duties and the Strong ILB (Where I'm suggesting Mario play) having more of a pass-rush role. Everything I have read about Wades version of the 3/4 suggest this. Of course he will have some coverage responsibilities but there are things that could be done to limit this.

Not saying this would defiantly work but it seems like it has more merit than putting him outside where his size is neutralized 99% of the time.
Click to expand...



In wades defense average players have racked up big numbers at strong ILB.
Having mOre size in the middle coulnd only help.
Mario's size is being wasted on the outside.
This defense is predicated on speed of the edges. Mario isn't a speed guy.

There are many many reasons Mario would be better in the middle but most here wont discuss it. They will just say, well i'll go with Wades opinion over yours.
 
at his natural 4-3 de position MW was only a devastating passrusher someof the time. As a 3-4 wolb, he's not getting anywhere near the penetration and disruption he got as de. He might make a decent wolb but I, for one, seriously doubt it will be this year he most likely won't be here next year. Since WP's 3-4 is usually a 1 gap system, de should be a better fit for him and still allow him to get sack chances, especially if a good edge rusher is forcing the qb to step up in the pocket.
 
I feel Mario overall would be terrible as an inside pass rusher. He demonstrates virtually only one move............a bull rush the long way around the edge. He does not man handle anyone with his hands. When you go up the middle, you better have good hand skills and a variation of moves such as spin moves which Mario does not demonstrate.
 
Three man fronts are supposed to engage double teams that create the rushing lanes for OLB's. Watch small sample size (15 reps pre-season game one & first half game 2) other than maybe Watt who demanded double teams? Good question for 76Texan. Only way he can dominate is if the front three can take out the trash, in this context, Mario is very good @ taking out the trash & opening lanes while feasting on dinner :fridge:
 
Texan_Bill said:
Who said he was terrible at OLB? He's played the position for roughly 3-4 weeks and looks somewhat uncomfortable right now... So what?
Click to expand...

Exactly. Does everyone honestly think Mario has tapped out already at OLB from a few plays in the preseason?
 
I'll wait till I see an actual game before I'll say he's good/bad/average. Wade hasn't even open the playbook past page 3.
 
BigBull17 said:
I'll wait till I see an actual game before I'll say he's good/bad/average. Wade hasn't even open the playbook past page 3.
Click to expand...


PAGE 4 PREVIEW

page4.jpg
 
beerlover said:
Three man fronts are supposed to engage double teams that create the rushing lanes for OLB's. Watch small sample size (15 reps pre-season game one & first half game 2) other than maybe Watt who demanded double teams? Good question for 76Texan. Only way he can dominate is if the front three can take out the trash, in this context, Mario is very good @ taking out the trash & opening lanes while feasting on dinner :fridge:
Click to expand...
I think this is a bad example. Watt is so good a second lineman can't get over in time to help out. Chuck Norris' birth certificate shows JJ Watt is his real father.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Who said he was terrible at OLB? He's played the position for roughly 3-4 weeks and looks somewhat uncomfortable right now... So what?
Click to expand...

Do you think he's lack of an explosive first step is due to being uncomfortable? I just dont think he's shown any flash in the pass rushing situations, am willing to cut him some slack when dropping into coverage. But he hasn't looked all that impressive in pure pass rushing situations. Yes, he got close to Brees; but close don't men ****. I've seen him get close to Manning for several years now, and we've still only bet them a small handfull of times.

If we going to move MW, moving him to DE would seem to be the most logically place to move him. Now would he want to move there, I doubt it. 43 DE and 34 OLB are positions that get paid and going into a contract year MW is thinking about getting paid. Wasn't Wade talking about making MW a 5 tech when he first go here?
 
beerlover said:
Three man fronts are supposed to engage double teams that create the rushing lanes for OLB's. Watch small sample size (15 reps pre-season game one & first half game 2) other than maybe Watt who demanded double teams? Good question for 76Texan. Only way he can dominate is if the front three can take out the trash, in this context, Mario is very good @ taking out the trash & opening lanes while feasting on dinner :fridge:
Click to expand...

In WPs system, the dl are one gap penetrators. That's why he thinks we are ok without the road grader that CnD wants. That's why I mentioned MW at de. CnD made some interesting comments on that.
 
If there are really any questions about Mario Williams at OLB, the only real move, would be to put him back at DE.

But if you're looking at your playmakers, you're going to be taking one of them off the field.

JJ Watt, Antonio Smith, Mario Williams.

I want them all on the field as often as possible.

Brooks Reed looks good, & deserve 1st team reps in the preseason. But you're hoping on a prayer if that is your plan going into the season. If he turns out to be legit & truly deserving to be on the field, then it's Connor Barwin who should come off. Not Mario.

Of course I like the idea of kicking Watt inside & removing Cody, or even kicking Smith inside but both of those options (I think) are worse than keeping Mario at OLB.

I remember after our game against Denver...... Battle Red, Mario had 2 sacks (maybe 3). I think he played standing up quite a bit & for the most part, we all asked to see more of it. Now that the Texans have done so, I don't really understand the resistance.

I think if the Texans decided to play Mario at DE we would still be complaining about it.
 
The reason Mario moved to OLB is because he wanted to rush the QB. He wouldn't get that chance as much as a 3-4 DE. I doubt he'd be willing to move to ILB.
 
Think we, as fans, are getting too emotional about this. No one is saying MW is a scrub who needs to be cut. Those of us who don't like this move are universally saying to move him back to de and, if possible, trade him. Not because he sux, but because of his cap hit, playing way out of position and this is the last year of his contract. Try to get something rather than hope for a 3 rd comp pick. I think MW is a good de. I don't think he'll make a good olb in time to do us much good this season. This appears to be a one year experiment.
 
I think I've firmly established that I enjoy complaining and that rarely if ever can the Texans make me happy about anything they do or attempt to do.

I'm the guy waiting for the other shoe to fall.

I'm the guy who's not just worried about the sucker punch/kick to the groin every year, I'm almost counting on it.

Having said that even I think it's too soon to get pessimistic about Mario. It's too soon to get pessimistic about any of it. Three or four weeks from now they could be just completely epic or they could be a joke. When that time comes, IF that time comes then Mario isn't going to move somewhere else on this defense. He's an asset who will be part of a sign and trade deal to get whatever it is we will need to fix whatever it is that isn't working.

Trust me, I'll let you all know when it's time to get really, really, really upset about how things are going. :)
 
Dutchrudder said:
Umm, how about moving him back to DE where he has played well for 5 years?
Click to expand...

Actually, this DE is not even the same DE that he has played in the past...

Either way, he will be doing something a bit different than he has done in the past.
 
80tothezone said:
Honestly I think he could be serviceable but he is pullin down 14 million ..... u can buy a lot of talent for 14 million... I hate to see him go but if he doesn't show anything in game 3 on Saturday we should look at trading him to a 4-3 for a better # 2 cb and some drat pics( not my idea but I agree with texan mike on this one).. We got plenty of what looks to be good talent behind him brooks reed, nading etc ..... like I said though I hope he proves me wrong sat against the niners and blows it up for 2 sacs and and assload of stops .... just don't think he will do it... also mario will line up everywhere so moving him to ilb won't really make a difference plus then you got to worry about him covering a back or slot receiver .... He needs to show up big on saturday and make it worth the 14 mil.
Click to expand...

if he dont show anything in game 3 of the pre season ?? Trade him ??? :vincepalm:
 
Forum fail. I just simply dont understand this overreaction after 3 quarters of pre-season football. You're killin me smalls!
 
There are certain things that a 34 OLB must have to be successful, a wicked fast first step, agility to get around or over the OT and a nose to finish the play. Things that MW has not shown at all this preseason. There have certainly been plays when MW has been told his only assignment was to get the QB (something he has been doing since he got here in essence), and on those plays he should at least flash some of these abilities. He has not. There should be nothing confussing MW about getting the QB.

If he was struggling in coverage or defending the edge I would agree that those problems could be fixed with more time. But he is struggling in the facet of his game that he should be most familiar with.
 
TexanSam said:
The reason Mario moved to OLB is because he wanted to rush the QB. He wouldn't get that chance as much as a 3-4 DE. I doubt he'd be willing to move to ILB.
Click to expand...

That's all JJ Watt is going to be doing at DE. Same as Antonio Smith. That's what they do in Wade's 3-4.
 
Super Mario said:
Forum fail. I just simply dont understand this overreaction after 3 quarters of pre-season football. You're killin me smalls!
Click to expand...

This thread was made in the name of devil's advocacy. I don't really know how MW is going to do, but I would imagine until at least week 4 or so of the regular season. If you don't believe me, read this post I made about the same thing.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1757047&postcount=9

I was just asking a hypothetical question to generate discussion.
 
EllisUnit said:
if he dont show anything in game 3 of the pre season ?? Trade him ??? :vincepalm:
Click to expand...



I would assume the Texans would hold on to Mario and franchise him in the off season, and then try and work a trade during the draft....

But If I'm wrong, remind your team the Browns have 2 first rd picks this year...
Williams would look real nice with Sheard and Taylor, Rubin...

That would be a beastly front 4..........
 
Hoth-Boy said:
Do you think he's lack of an explosive first step is due to being uncomfortable? I just dont think he's shown any flash in the pass rushing situations, am willing to cut him some slack when dropping into coverage. But he hasn't looked all that impressive in pure pass rushing situations. Yes, he got close to Brees; but close don't men ****. I've seen him get close to Manning for several years now, and we've still only bet them a small handfull of times.

If we going to move MW, moving him to DE would seem to be the most logically place to move him. Now would he want to move there, I doubt it. 43 DE and 34 OLB are positions that get paid and going into a contract year MW is thinking about getting paid. Wasn't Wade talking about making MW a 5 tech when he first go here?
Click to expand...

When something is brand new to you and you are not comfortable or even have to second guess yourself, yes. He's never really played without his hand on the ground, for one. He has completely new responsibilites.

That said, if he doesn't show real improvement and settle in by about week 2 or 3, I think Wade will give him the hook and move him to DE.
 
IMO the offensive analogy to Mario's transition is moving a very good, a very effective pro bowl level TE to WR.
 
Texan_Bill said:
When something is brand new to you and you are not comfortable or even have to second guess yourself, yes. He's never really played without his hand on the ground, for one. He has completely new responsibilites.

That said, if he doesn't show real improvement and settle in by about week 2 or 3, I think Wade will give him the hook and move him to DE.
Click to expand...

What's there to second guess? With how simple Wade has been calling the D during the preseason, MW's main responsibilty is to rush the passer more than 3/4 of the time. For now I'm ignoring any play where he has to defend the flat or drop into coverage; and even with that removed from the equation he has looked average as an OLB. Could it be due to him being uncomfortable? Maybe, but for now I'm seriously doubting his ability to play OLB at a high level.
 
Hoth-Boy said:
What's there to second guess? With how simple Wade has been calling the D during the preseason, MW's main responsibilty is to rush the passer more than 3/4 of the time. For now I'm ignoring any play where he has to defend the flat or drop into coverage; and even with that removed from the equation he has looked average as an OLB. Could it be due to him being uncomfortable? Maybe, but for now I'm seriously doubting his ability to play OLB at a high level.
Click to expand...

Okay.
 
Tailgate said:
Exactly. Does everyone honestly think Mario has tapped out already at OLB from a few plays in the preseason?
Click to expand...

mario also played as a standup outside rusher several times last season. it was novel at first, and even got him a sack, but he looked too big and was too easy to defend once teams saw it coming.
 
EllisUnit said:
if he dont show anything in game 3 of the pre season ?? Trade him ??? :vincepalm:
Click to expand...

Yes if we can get something for him why not? Shop it see where it goes, ur telling me that Reed will not be serviceable in that position? I think he would be more than serviceable, then we trade mario to a team either switching to a 4-3 or to a team that is in a 4-3 that needs a better end, and we get something we need like a good #2 cb or a ILB to backup the fresh off injury guys we got playing there... again why not if you can make your team better doing it. The Veteran thing doesn't really apply here cause he is swtiching positions so he will not be the teacher teaching the youngster's where to be... So again why not? 8.5 sacks? average tackle numbers? Another question how long do you give him? Week 1? trade deadline?

We got a STACKED O this yr and a better D this could be our year Finally after a decade of floundering in mediocrity to finally make the playoffs and do something as a team. Why coddle a guy who is not giving any indication that he really can play the new position he is in? Let him go do what he does best and get something in return for him to make the Texans better....
Now if this was Dre or Ryans or OD or someone like that I would say u do whatever you need to do to keep em... Mario has not been great for two years he has barely been good once again #27 in sacks down there in tackles too I believe... Why not see what we can get for him
 
to the OP, if he's so terrible at OLB - why not simply move him to DE where he belongs?

that was wade's original assessment of mario which drew the bruce smith comparisons - and even got bruce smith himself speaking of mario in the role. mario and watt are similarly built - both monsters - one with a freak motor and one with freak athleticism (smith somewhere inbetween). why isnt anyone talking about moving watt to OLB? i'll tell you why ... nobody wants a 290lb defensive end at the 7-9 gap trying to get to the quarterback. they're more likely to be successful as tackles (suh, seymore) than at OLB.

to be completely honest, if we're going to play a single gap system, i would start mario, watt, and smith on the line (in any placement). cody and mitchell would be better as rotation along the line.
 
Last edited:
Let's bring this conversation back up come week 5 or 6 of the regular season, not after less than 3 quarters of preseason football.
 
I don't know what Mario has done to get this overrreaction of 'Lets trade him' or that he's really not that much needed. He's always been quiet, seems to like it here...so i'm confused.

I say we give DC Wade the benefit of the doubt and our guy Mario the same thing and see what happens.

If this OLB experiment doesn't work out, lets see what the team does with him...if it does, you guys better love him. :bat:
 
Ryan said:
Let's bring this conversation back up come week 5 or 6 of the regular season, not after less than 3 quarters of preseason football.
Click to expand...

Mario is arguably playing he most important position on the entire defense and you think we should wait until a third of he season is over before we should discuss wheather or not Mario would be a better fit at another spot?

Not particularly talking to you Ryan but these are threads about Mario are not about dogging Mario and wanting to get rid of him. They are about moving our best D-linemen into a position that is so important to our season when

A) he doesn't have adequate time to make such a drastic adjustment.
B) his skillet just isn't cut out for the position.
C) he has a history of not picking new things up fast.
D) we drafted one of the best prospects in the draft at 3/4 OLB
E) the guy we drafted is picking up the position like it's second nature.
F) the guy that is playing well is getting loosing
out on valuable reps with the first team.
G) Mario's size is being wasted outside while we are getting gashed up the middle because of a lack of size.
H) if it doesn't workout Mario has had ZERO practice at 3/4 de.
I) we can't afford to gat off to a slow start.
J) I could go on and on.

I've seen people who are bashing people for voicing concerns about the Mario situation and I don't get it. These are legitimate concerns about our team that fans ( fanatics) are trying to discuss on a freaking TEXANS MESSAGE BOARD! yet there are peoe that don't care to join the conversation with anything other than one liner responses acting like this is a stupid topic. Were Effin stupid or dumb and dumber or jumping the gun. Well that is effn stupid to me. Rant done!

Again Ryan that last part was not directed at you.
 
Ryan said:
Let's bring this conversation back up come week 5 or 6 of the regular season, not after less than 3 quarters of preseason football.
Click to expand...

Wait, what?? So you don't think 27 plays are enough to determine that Mario sucks??! :kubepalm:

Dripping in :sarcasm:
 
mussop said:
Mario is arguably playing he most important position on the entire defense and you think we should wait until a third of he season is over before we should discuss wheather or not Mario would be a better fit at another spot?

Not particularly talking to you Ryan but these are threads about Mario are not about dogging Mario and wanting to get rid of him. They are about moving our best D-linemen into a position that is so important to our season when

A) he doesn't have adequate time to make such a drastic adjustment.
B) his skillet just isn't cut out for the position.
C) he has a history of not picking new things up fast.
D) we drafted one of the best prospects in the draft at 3/4 OLB
E) the guy we drafted is picking up the position like it's second nature.
F) the guy that is playing well is getting loosing
out on valuable reps with the first team.
G) Mario's size is being wasted outside while we are getting gashed up the middle because of a lack of size.
H) if it doesn't workout Mario has had ZERO practice at 3/4 de.
I) we can't afford to gat off to a slow start.
J) I could go on and on.

I've seen people who are bashing people for voicing concerns about the Mario situation and I don't get it. These are legitimate concerns about our team that fans ( fanatics) are trying to discuss on a freaking TEXANS MESSAGE BOARD! yet there are peoe that don't care to join the conversation with anything other than one liner responses acting like this is a stupid topic. Were Effin stupid or dumb and dumber or jumping the gun. Well that is effn stupid to me. Rant done!

Again Ryan that last part was not directed at you.
Click to expand...

This post is full of fail.

A) he doesn't have adequate time to make such a drastic adjustment.
What "drastic" adjustment? His primary job is still the same; rush the passer. There is the adjustment to a new defense, but every player on the team is dealing with that, not just mario.

B) his skill set just isn't cut out for the position. - Really, well our DC seems to think so..furthermore, his skill set isn't changing much from when he played DE in a 4-3 b/c he's going to be doing the same frickin' thing..

C) he has a history of not picking new things up fast. What history is that? when Dick Smith tried moving him all over the LOS scrimmage in his rookie year? Most rookies would've struggled with that .....give me a break.

D) we drafted one of the best prospects in the draft at 3/4 OLB If you think Mario's going to have a tough time adjusting to the new scheme/position, how do you think a rookie that had a shortened offseason & who's adjusting to life in the NFL will fare?

E) the guy we drafted is picking up the position like it's second nature. HE'S PLAYING AGAINST 2ND & 3RD TEAMERS....AKA PRACTICE SQUADERS & GUYS THAT'LL BE GETTING VISITS FROM THE TURK IN A FEW WEEKS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!

F) the guy that is playing well is getting loosing
out on valuable reps with the first team. Well i guess if you feel that he's "picking up the position like it's 2nd nature", reps with the 1st team aren't that big a deal. Besides, if i'm not mistaken, kubiak has already come out & said that Reed will get more time with the 1's this game.

G) Mario's size is being wasted outside while we are getting gashed up the middle because of a lack of size.
key phrase being "up the middle" i.e. right over the NT position so even If mario does go back to putting his hand in the dirt full time, he's not going to be playing the nose. The likely candidate will be Antonio Smith & i'm not sure if that's going to be that much more of an improvement.


H) if it doesn't workout Mario has had ZERO practice at 3/4 de. :kubepalm:


I) we can't afford to gat off to a slow start. Lots of reasons for why that could happen, Mario playing OLB as 1 of those reasons is somewhere around 87907687. Besides, everything we've all seen so far from our defense & team indicates that we'll be better which makes a slow start less likely. & that's with Mario playing OLB.


J) I could go on and on.

The rest of that, you're just reaching with. I'm fine with Brooks Reed, i think he's got a great future with us....................I just think that it'll be Barwin that he replaces not Mario.......If Mario does indeed do well.
 
Mr Tex. Bravo! :handclap:

Even though I disagree with most of what you've said, I respect the fact that you took the time to counter my response with well thought out counter points instead of replying with one sentence personal attacks or by starting a stupid new sarcastic thread mocking posters view points. That is the true definition of effn stupid!
 
Let me ask you this ...... what do we need more a an olb when we got reed who can own .... or a good cb.... I think the latter ans asante is pretty much on the block..... either way we so wells this yr cause hopefully if Mario isn't hacking it he will be replaced by reed anyway.... I ,and others' think the D would be better served if we traded Mario to get something we NEED

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
 
80tothezone said:
Let me ask you this ...... what do we need more a an olb when we got reed who can own .... or a good cb.... I think the latter ans asante is pretty much on the block..... either way we so wells this yr cause hopefully if Mario isn't hacking it he will be replaced by reed anyway.... I ,and others' think the D would be better served if we traded Mario to get something we NEED

Sent from my DROID X2 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No. Reed has proved nothing. Why do you want to risk starting a rookie there? Didn't we learn from Kareem? So lets replace a proven player with a unproven player...

We don't know what we need any ways, I'd say we'd need a big NT more than a CB.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top