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Leach has Giants, Seahawks, and Chargers on his radar
- Thread starter Mari-OWNED!
- Start date
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Bye bye Leach.
False Start
On # 69
He almost went to the Giants one time. I hope they resign Vonta, dude is a beast.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
If I remember, Leach is asking for top money that has been given to FBs who also split significant time at RB. Correct me if I'm wrong. His value as an RB is unproven and would be questionable. It is also questionable that some other team would throw top FB/RB money at Leach hoping that the RB "experiment" works. I feel there is a very good chance that Leach re-signs for less money than he now unrealistically thinks he is worth.
With the reports on the salary cap we've gotten thus far and the Texans being at or near that cap .... Im really torn.
If they want to sign a top tier FA CB they probably have to make cap room , how they do that and add a veteran S while signing Leach is beyond me. Rick Smith is gonna have to earn his keep this offseason ....
Im not all that excited with the prospects of Casey at FB.
If they want to sign a top tier FA CB they probably have to make cap room , how they do that and add a veteran S while signing Leach is beyond me. Rick Smith is gonna have to earn his keep this offseason ....
Im not all that excited with the prospects of Casey at FB.
I think a fb is worth more to some teams than others. If a team runs the ball a lot and keeps a fb on the field most of the time then that position becomes more valuable.
We like the three or four wr set and we use two tight a lot. Vonta isn't even on the field a lot of times for us. It'd make no sense for us to pay him a whole bunch of money.
One of the things with the ZBS is that it really doesn't use a fb that heavily. Leech was good enough to justify. However, Casey can be a threat that Leech never will be out of the fb position. May not be a's good of a blocker, but you have to account for him. If it's a cb or Leech, u can't be mad at Smith for going CB
Clamp
Noob
An article on Battle Red Blog, i believe, included some interview with casey. He said he had been studying and working out getting ready just in case he is called upon to step up. If I remember correctly he said that he had put on another 10lbs of muscle. The guy was already called Thor, I cant tell you how curious I am to see him come into training camp. The guy is gonna be jacked. Hopefully he doesnt get over trained athlete syndrome lol.
He is such a receiving threat coming out of the backfield that I think he might be the better overall option even if Vonta were to stay. Vonta is a beast and can truck anyone who gets in his way, and he is a decent receiver when called on but casey has tremendous hands and can do things Leach will never be able to do. He is a better weapon and can create great mismatches. He is too good to let just fill in on occasional packages bc he just happened to get drafted by the most TE happy team in the NFL who also happens to have a seemingly irreplaceable FB.
He is such a receiving threat coming out of the backfield that I think he might be the better overall option even if Vonta were to stay. Vonta is a beast and can truck anyone who gets in his way, and he is a decent receiver when called on but casey has tremendous hands and can do things Leach will never be able to do. He is a better weapon and can create great mismatches. He is too good to let just fill in on occasional packages bc he just happened to get drafted by the most TE happy team in the NFL who also happens to have a seemingly irreplaceable FB.
I cant argue with the bold.
Casey hasnt yet proved much to me yet .... and I really dont expect him to come in and fill the shoes of Leach as a blocker. That dude is just a wrecking ball.
As far as Casey doing things that Leach couldnt , he's got 14 receptions in two seasons .... He's got to prove it before I believe it.
House of Pain
Wild Speculator
As good of a FB Leach is, I think most Texans fans don't want to see him go because of his attitude, demeanor, and how the rest of the guys in the locker room seemed to respond to him. The Texans could use a few more hard nosed guys like Leach to help establish and maintain their identity as a team.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
Letting Leach go will be a move we'll learn to regret very, very heavily.
fiasco west
All Pro
It seems like all this team ever does is just get younger and younger....So i'm expecting it to happen, the FO guys seem to think that experienced vets can easily be replaced so i'm sure it's no different with Leach.
Well I am torn with this... Leach is a very good FB, and he does deserve a pay raise for helping a practice squad player become the NFL's leading rusher. Now AF get's a lot of that credit, but Leach was a major reason why. Now also being a Giants fan, hell, I would be all over it if he went there.. So for me it is a win/win. Now as for never overpaying a FB..My thoughts are this...
I get that, but as you evaluate your players, at what cost is it to you to decide that not only is it Leach's value, but the value it brings to guys like AF, or for the protection of our QB.. He can block, he can protect, he's a leader, those are the small things that you add up that equal the big picture.
Remember the 90's when Emmitt up in Dallas was running all over the place.. well he had Johnston as his FB opening up holes and blocking like a beast for him... and well Emmit said he owed a lot of his success to him for paving the way. Not every team needs to utilize a FB, but in Houston's scheme, they are a team that does need one, and well I think they do need to pay him to keep him. If not, I have no problems with him going to NY if they offer him the $$ he is looking for...
If Houston does not resign Leach, as said in a previous post, it will come back and bite them....
I get that, but as you evaluate your players, at what cost is it to you to decide that not only is it Leach's value, but the value it brings to guys like AF, or for the protection of our QB.. He can block, he can protect, he's a leader, those are the small things that you add up that equal the big picture.
Remember the 90's when Emmitt up in Dallas was running all over the place.. well he had Johnston as his FB opening up holes and blocking like a beast for him... and well Emmit said he owed a lot of his success to him for paving the way. Not every team needs to utilize a FB, but in Houston's scheme, they are a team that does need one, and well I think they do need to pay him to keep him. If not, I have no problems with him going to NY if they offer him the $$ he is looking for...
If Houston does not resign Leach, as said in a previous post, it will come back and bite them....
texanfan2002114
Veteran
Leach is 6'0 255 according to the team website and James Casey is 6'3 240. That is before he spent the whole offseason adding muscle weight. If he truely added the 10 pounds and has been preparing himself to play FB then I am completely fine with a 250 Casey blocking for Foster.
On top of that, I think it gives Kubes and the Texans offense another weapon on the QB rollout.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
I look at it this way.
When Lorenzo Neal left Tenn, Eddie George became less effective as a RB. Neal wasn't much of a skill position player and Tenn even ran Wycheck at H-back alot. Wychek was a hell of a TE and he was a pretty decent FB when called upon but George began to be less effective and soon Eddie was gone, went to the Cowboys and just went away and Eddie was a hell of a RB, everything you asked for in a RB. Alot of the reason was because he was taking on more hits with no FB in front of him.
IMO, we are in that situation that Tenn was in at that time.
Meanwhile, Neal went to San Diego where he began paving a road for Landanian Tomlinson and Tomlinson did some astronomical things with him there, like set the single season TD record and of course all those rushing yards. Then Neal is let go due to injury and San Diego replaces him with Hester. Tomlinson did well with Hester but soon became very injury prone as well and eventually became too expensive to keep for his production and then he went to the Jets where he is now a 2nd string RB.
Although Casey does give me that idea that we could turn a 2 receiever, 1 Te set to a 2 receiver 2 te set in an instant. I have to think that the reason we won the games we did is because we had a solid running game. Those games vs. KC and Oakland where Ward busted a couple of runs for TDs were because we had clear paths to run through. Not only that, but Leach blocks well for Schaub and the last thing we need is Schaub feeling uncomfortable in the pocket because he is unsure of Casey's ability to hold a block which if I'm correct is the reason why he hasn't moved up the depth chart.
I'm all for doing everything you can to get Aso, but this is where I start to get uncomfortable with the whole "we gave up to much for him". Paying him alot of money is just saying "hey we are doing what we can to make our team better" but paying him a ton of money and not retaining players that actually contribute to the success of the only strength you have on your team is where I feel you start to give up too much for Aso.
IMO this is where we have to see if retaining JJ is worth it too.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I love me some Vonta, but a FB is replacable. He's involved in less than 30% of the offense. People liked Moran Norris, too.
I would love to re-sign Leach, just don't don't overpay for him.
I would love to re-sign Leach, just don't don't overpay for him.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
I can't provide a link, but the stat I've heard in this regard is that Vonta was on the field for approximately 35% of the Texans offensive snaps in 2010.
Vinnie
with an I E
Agreed. Casey is an all around baller and should fill in for Vonta well. Vonta needs to go get his and I'll never hold that against him. Go get your money Vonta!
TimeKiller
Guest
I'd hate to see VL go and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one. zBut it's not a lot to ask of a guy to be a mobile OL of sorts.
Casey may only have 14 receptions as the what....3rd at best TE? VL isn't a pass threat in the least, only catches dumpoffs and as a running threat he's too slow and has zero shiftiness. I love the guy, he's a cannonball, an enforcer, a big part of the Texans' attitude but overpaying for him would be stupid. I'd much rather overpay for Asomugha or similarly elite talent than overpay for a blocking FB.
Casey may only have 14 receptions as the what....3rd at best TE? VL isn't a pass threat in the least, only catches dumpoffs and as a running threat he's too slow and has zero shiftiness. I love the guy, he's a cannonball, an enforcer, a big part of the Texans' attitude but overpaying for him would be stupid. I'd much rather overpay for Asomugha or similarly elite talent than overpay for a blocking FB.
texanfan2002114
Veteran
Eddie George had 3 fantastic years before Neal got there and Neal was only there for 2 years.
Take a look at the link below of Ward's run in the KC game for the TD. No Leach on the field. Great cut by Ward early at the line and then FANTASTIC down field blocking by Andre and JJ, finished off by Ward making people miss.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUK6uue4fd8
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
I haven't seen anything from James Casey that would make me think he could play fullback the way Vonta did. He doesn't strike me as much of a blocker. I think if we lose Leach, our running game is going to take a drastic turn south.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
What about his run vs. Oakland? That was really the one I was talking about. Both he and Foster had some big runs in both of those games. Don't got Youtube at work so I'm just recalling here.
Yes I would.
Casey is not vonta but he's not this soft little guy that he's kind of being painted as.
I understand leach is a beast, but our running game has been good because of the backs.
If the backs have sucked, our running game has sucked.
Casey doesn't have to crush lb's. Just blocking them or getting a piece of them should allow a good rb to make his cut and accelerate through the hole.
I just think it's a bad idea to overpay for leach. For a few reasons. Not on the field a whole lot, not a threat as far as catching, or running.
Leach has been here for a while now. Arian foster has a great season and leach is all pro. Leach needs to thank Arian for getting him this recognition.
I remember when leach got the offer sheet from the giants people generally wanted him back, but there was no where near this kind of outcry saying he was the cog that made our offense tick.
If the backs have sucked, our running game has sucked.
Casey doesn't have to crush lb's. Just blocking them or getting a piece of them should allow a good rb to make his cut and accelerate through the hole.
I just think it's a bad idea to overpay for leach. For a few reasons. Not on the field a whole lot, not a threat as far as catching, or running.
Leach has been here for a while now. Arian foster has a great season and leach is all pro. Leach needs to thank Arian for getting him this recognition.
I remember when leach got the offer sheet from the giants people generally wanted him back, but there was no where near this kind of outcry saying he was the cog that made our offense tick.
texanfan2002114
Veteran
On Foster's long TD run in oakland, Leach got in front of a guy. Didn't hit him hard, didn't lay him out. He just got in the way long enough for Foster to take it to the house.
His 2nd TD that game was a receiving TD from Schaub.
I don't deny that Leach was on the field for a lot of Foster's TD's. When you have 16 rushing TD's your going to have him there but what I'm saying is that I think Foster is a special back who has GREAT vision and I think Casey can open the same holes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJNW-ValKvQ
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texanfan2002114
Veteran
Casey had some bad luck. Stuck behind two very good tight ends. When OD and Dreesen got dinged up, Casey did too. I don't know if it will work, but its very hard to pay alot of money for a FB.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
So what TE will we get to be our #3 TE if Casey moves to fullback? Because you know we are going to need to make sure we have plenty TEs still.
GP
Go Texans!
That might have been why Leach tweeted his "Well, it doesn't look like the Texans want me back..." way back in the early spring.
If he saw or heard of James Casey adding weight, then he sees that as writing on the wall for being odd man out (due to salary demands).
But I don't know. James Casey can add weight, and he could mentally TRY to make himself into the shape and form of a FB...but I happen to think that a FB like Leach is the caliber of FB he is because he's a different breed of cat altogether. Does Casey have that "I want to crush anybody in my path, even if I get the worst of it?" ability? I'm not so sure he does.
Not questioning his ability nor his heart. But it takes someone who is a little "bent" to do the damage that Leach can do. Just my $.02
Probably graham.
GP
Go Texans!
OD, Dreesen, and Graham. Might add an UDFA for camp fodder.
Then there's that ghost TE that plays like three plays in a reg season and goes down with an ouchie...then he's done for like 6 weeks...then he comes back, and then he's done...rinse and repeat.
Last name is Hill, IIRC. "Goodnight, says Bennie Joppru, we are programmed to receive. You can check out any time you like...but you can. Never. Leave. Welcome, to the Hotel Injured Tight End...such a lovely--"
Having a fb that crushes people is awesome, but it's not a necessity.
Having an all pro fb is not a pre requisite to a good ground game. Plenty of rb's have been great with fbs that weren't all pro.
With the rumors about the tight salary cap I can't see why we'd want to overpay for a fb.
texanfan2002114
Veteran
I agree completely. Foster attributed his 2010 success to two factors: AJ's mentoring him about practice, and Leach's blocking skills.
FB is an unsung hero in today's NFL, but I have little doubt that this team will miss him if they let him go.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Vonta can actually catch the ball out of the backfield, AND
he blows fools up. When I think of what he's done, I think about
the Green Bay game in 2009. The Texans don't win that game
without Vonta Leach. The Texans don't beat the Colts in 2010,
without Leach.
When I think of Casey, the guy just catches
the ball and goes down without much YAC.
We KNOW what Vonta can do. All we got with Casey is HOPE.
"Change we can believe in?"
he blows fools up. When I think of what he's done, I think about
the Green Bay game in 2009. The Texans don't win that game
without Vonta Leach. The Texans don't beat the Colts in 2010,
without Leach.
When I think of Casey, the guy just catches
the ball and goes down without much YAC.
We KNOW what Vonta can do. All we got with Casey is HOPE.
"Change we can believe in?"
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Hell. Emmitt Smith CRIED at his Hall of Fame induction speech about
HIS fullback. Letting Leach go wouldn't surprise me with this Texans'
front office.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
While understanding your point, you are talking about a guy that should and may eventually be in the Hall of Fame. Believe he may have been the first FB to go to a pro-bowl.
Vinnie
with an I E
They both had 8 receptions in 2010. Leach averaged nine YAC and Casey averged eight.
Doppelganger
None
I agree. Since Leach's main job is to be a blocker, people forget he actually has solid hands.
I don't know Casey would do, since he hasn't done it yet.
XI CMURDER IX
Gig 'em
I say, knowing that I am going to get seriously downed for this, let Leach go. Just think about this for a second. He is a bruising blocking fullback, probably the best in the NFL at it. However, how much more is his body going to be able to handle, fullbacks like that don't last long.
To my second point, James Casey hasn't proven himself in any form at fullback yet. If we do resign Leach, and James Casey shows up at camp and proves he can do it, too. Then trade Leach and let Casey take over the job. I think it would open up more options in the passing game as well.
Of course, this is if James Casey shows up at camp and surprises everybody.
To my second point, James Casey hasn't proven himself in any form at fullback yet. If we do resign Leach, and James Casey shows up at camp and proves he can do it, too. Then trade Leach and let Casey take over the job. I think it would open up more options in the passing game as well.
Of course, this is if James Casey shows up at camp and surprises everybody.
No matter how talented Casey might be it would be very hard for him to show enough in practice to warrant uprooting leach.
I personally have no problem with Casey at fb. I think he can handle it. I just don't think he'd be given serious consideration to take the job during practice. If the coaches think Casey is starting material they should know it by now.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Csonka? Jim Taylor? Rathman? Roger Craig? Not to mention pure blockers like Neal who went 4 times during his career.
Lots of FBs been to the pro bowl.