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Rick Smith on his draft preparation

AcresHomesTexan

AcresHomesTexan

No Longer Arlington: Escaped From Jerry's World
Staff member
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/a...meetings/76bcff47-79ad-45ff-a0a2-36e90d8c48fd

Largely, a fluff piece with nothing earth shattering. The only I will pull out is his philosophy about player visits and drafting for need/bpa



Each NFL team can invite up to 30 players to their respective facilities for pre-draft visits. The Texans are looking for the same things in those visits that they were looking for at the Combine.

“You’re either checking something out medically or you are just wanting to spend a little bit more time and get a little bit better feel,” Smith said. “If you don’t think you’ve got a good feel on a particular player, then you bring him in and spend a little more time. It’s just, at that point, to validate something that you think you already know, or to clear up any kind of medical issues.”


Smith reiterated on Wednesday that it hasn’t affected how the Texans have set their draft board, and it won’t affect their strategy on draft weekend.

“We’ve said for years that you don’t draft for need,” he said. “If you get a need position in the draft, then that’s great. I think that it is a little odd and it’s backwards that typically you’ve filled your team, at least some of the positions of need, via free agency. But this year being a little bit different, it doesn’t change our approach with respect to how we approach the draft and filling the needs on our team.”
 
I read an article from a former Bears scout talking about the draft process and the amount of disinformation at this point in the process. He said he would vary it up every year. Some years he would only bring in guys they were interested in. Some years he would only bring in guys they weren't interested in. Some years he would only bring in guys, as Smith suggests, they had incomplete information on.

If he was asked about specific players, he would only make positive comments on guys he didn't like and no comment on guys he did like. If asked about a medical concern, it was always a medical concern. If asked about a player's draft projection, the player was always projected a round later.

He also made it a point that this is the way of "experienced guys" and emphasized the importance of having experienced guys in the draft process. So, I don't know how much Smith adheres to this philosophy, but I don't know that I'd take much of it with more than a grain of salt.
 
It's downright insulting for the Texans GM to tell us they don't draft for need, when everybody who knows anything about the Texans knows that atleast 2 of their top picks since Smith has been here, Duane Brown and Kareem Jackson, were based much more on need than what the available talent was on the Board when the Texans picked in the first round in each of those 2 Drafts.
 
Maybe I'm not following, but doesn't "We’ve said for years that you don’t draft for need" counter the "we build through the draft" statements heard in the past? When building a team, don't you work on areas to improve / needs?
 
I don't know the last time I heard a GM or scout or coach not say we draft BPA or mostly use tape as our evalution. In terms of strategy, he has to at least leave the door open for some odd draft pick or so that teams with needs at the same position don't just jump in front of them.
 
OzzO said:
Maybe I'm not following, but doesn't "We’ve said for years that you don’t draft for need" counter the "we build through the draft" statements heard in the past? When building a team, don't you work on areas to improve / needs?
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Actually, the BPA pure theory says, it is the secondary concern. This has some age to it, but does a good job of getting at BPA theory and kinda why we fans think "wrongly" about how a team approaches stuff.



http://www.gbnreport.com/drafttheories.htm
 
IDEXAN said:
It's downright insulting for the Texans GM to tell us they don't draft for need, when everybody who knows anything about the Texans knows that atleast 2 of their top picks since Smith has been here, Duane Brown and Kareem Jackson, were based much more on need than what the available talent was on the Board when the Texans picked in the first round in each of those 2 Drafts.
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BPA and need drafting are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I know this is just beating a dead horse around here, but the fact is that different people evaluate players differently. The Texans big board might actually rate a LT at a bit of a premium due to the need, so they push him up the board before the draft, which makes him the BPA at the time. They might consider things like the scheme he played in college (see every CSU player drafted), and give him extra points for that. So while others may see a guy like Brown with raw talent scored as an 89 overall, his prior knowledge and experience of a similar scheme may bump him up to a 92 on the Texans board.

I think that's why they went with Jackson last year and we heard all about the 'most NFL ready corner', because they put a premium on that in evaluating him. So according to their board they went "BPA", while filling a need, but in reality they are drafting based on needs due to the way they evaluate players - if that is in fact how their evaluation process works...
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Actually, the BPA pure theory says, it is the secondary concern. This has some age to it, but does a good job of getting at BPA theory and kinda why we fans think "wrongly" about how a team approaches stuff.

http://www.gbnreport.com/drafttheories.htm
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I'm glad you posted this. I remember reading this when I first starting getting into the draft, and it's something that I've always agreed with.

As fans, we're so fixated on filling weaknesses and trying to find quick fixes that it's easy to lose sight of the big picture and that is building the best possible team.

I love the example they use in the BPA description and that is taking the WR. Another reason why I like Julio Jones and would completely support his selection over most other players, including an OLB that's rated lower than him (even though OLB is a bigger need).

I also really believe in the 'build from strength' idea... a reason why I think a JJ Watt or Cameron Jordan could be a very solid selection. If we can build a Super Unit along the DL, it causes such a ripple effect that only helps the rest of the team. We can't just have one elite player that a team focuses on but a Unit that forces the opposing team to game plan around. Having a TE constantly in to help block, or a RB in to block, etc.... that helps our LBs in coverage situations (1 less player to cover) as well as our secondary.
 
IDEXAN said:
It's downright insulting for the Texans GM to tell us they don't draft for need, when everybody who knows anything about the Texans knows that atleast 2 of their top picks since Smith has been here, Duane Brown and Kareem Jackson, were based much more on need than what the available talent was on the Board when the Texans picked in the first round in each of those 2 Drafts.
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Maybe they think their fanbase is rather....uhm....slow?

Dutchrudder said:
BPA and need drafting are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I know this is just beating a dead horse around here, but the fact is that different people evaluate players differently. The Texans big board might actually rate a LT at a bit of a premium due to the need, so they push him up the board before the draft, which makes him the BPA at the time. They might consider things like the scheme he played in college (see every CSU player drafted), and give him extra points for that. So while others may see a guy like Brown with raw talent scored as an 89 overall, his prior knowledge and experience of a similar scheme may bump him up to a 92 on the Texans board.

I think that's why they went with Jackson last year and we heard all about the 'most NFL ready corner', because they put a premium on that in evaluating him. So according to their board they went "BPA", while filling a need, but in reality they are drafting based on needs due to the way they evaluate players - if that is in fact how their evaluation process works...
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To me, that's simply "justifying" a NEED move by moving guys up more slots than they deserve. I'm NOT buying that the Texans don't draft for need...and I expect more of the same this year. In the Texans current state-of-affairs (and our sorry FA results), drafting for need is actually the right thing to do.
 
If they've been using the draft BPA strategy (which I don't believe), then they need to start using the draft for need strategy because what they've been doing hasn't been working.
 
I said something similar in another thread, but I think that the Texans draft the "best player who fits a need" in the early part of the draft (I estimate through round 3). Once 4th round or so hits, that when the picks look more like pure BPA (insert your own TE, CBs who can't play or Colorado State joke).
 
disaacks3 said:
To me, that's simply "justifying" a NEED move by moving guys up more slots than they deserve. I'm NOT buying that the Texans don't draft for need...and I expect more of the same this year. In the Texans current state-of-affairs (and our sorry FA results), drafting for need is actually the right thing to do.
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Oh, I'm not justifying it, I'm just speculating on how Rick can claim BPA drafting given his track record. We never actually see the big board they use, so it's nearly impossible to contend that they do or don't generally draft BPA.

My point is that evaluations are generally subjective, and there are all sorts of ways to move players up and down your board. A mid-round guard that looks great on paper, but may not do well in run-blocking for a ZBS, might get a lower grade than a guy like Shelley Smith, who has the experience. So really, if a GM says they are drafting on BPA, I believe them to an extent - in the same way I believe Rick Perry when he says he lowered property taxes while in office, but neglects the concerted effort to increase appraisal values across the board.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
I also really believe in the 'build from strength' idea... a reason why I think a JJ Watt or Cameron Jordan could be a very solid selection. If we can build a Super Unit along the DL, it causes such a ripple effect that only helps the rest of the team. We can't just have one elite player that a team focuses on but a Unit that forces the opposing team to game plan around. Having a TE constantly in to help block, or a RB in to block, etc.... that helps our LBs in coverage situations (1 less player to cover) as well as our secondary.
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I'm of the opinion that CB, OLB or NT should be our 1st round pick. I'm a firm believer that you select the BPA for a position of need. If #11 is too high to select someone like Phil Taylor, then you trade down to the pick he's worthy of. As for getting equal value for the #11 pick, I've always had an issue with adhering to the point value chart for draft picks. For instance, do you have to get 3000 points for the #1 overall pick if you're able to trade down to #15, get the player you truely want & pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick in the process? I don't think so.

However, your argument is one of the few I've read that makes sense. I like JJ Watt & wouldn't be disappointed if we drafted him at #11. If we're able to get a solid NT like Powe or Ellis in a later round then the line won't have a gaping hole in the middle of it & these stud DE's should be well rested & able to constantly put all kinds of pressure on the offense. That alone would improve our secondary by robbing the opposing offense of 2-3 seconds to make a play. That would be huge. You've made a great point.

As for WR, I can't see any possible argument that would justify the Texans taking a WR with the #11 pick in this year's draft, no matter how good he might be. Our offense has been the #3 offense in the NFL for the last 2 years & has finally gotten a running game that they can count on. The offense doesn't need an impact player as desperately as the defense does.
 
Hottoddie said:
As for WR, I can't see any possible argument that would justify the Texans taking a WR with the #11 pick in this year's draft, no matter how good he might be. Our offense has been the #3 offense in the NFL for the last 2 years & has finally gotten a running game that they can count on. The offense doesn't need an impact player as desperately as the defense does.
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I don't think WR is an area of particular need but I do think it could be upgraded and not be considered a luxury. I'd definitely prefer we go defense early and often and I don't look to target a WR in the first few rounds UNLESS it's Julio Jones. I really think highly of him and think he fits exactly what we want in a WR. This is a perfect example of BPA vs. Need, IMO. Say I have him rated a 9 and the best OLB is an 8.

Although our offense has been excellent at moving the ball, we could definitely stand to score more. We've been 3rd or 4th best in the league in yards per game. But the past 2 seasons hovered around 10 overall in scoring at 24 pts. Elite offenses score closer to 30 a game. I don't think we'll truly be elite until we can score "at will" and a Julio/Andre combo with Daniels over the middle and the threat of Foster breaking 200 yard games would take us close to 30pts a game and be truly elite.

Then add in some defensive picks by Wade in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th that could all potentially impact... a veteran FA once free agency opens up, proper coaching by one of the best in the business and our defense, at worst, becomes "respectable" and isn't the leagues 29th worst in pts/game.

I think Julio might be a combination of the "Best Player Available" and "Draft to Strength" drafting mentality. If even available, I'd suspect he'd be the highest rated on my board and, if selected, would create a ton of opportunities for our offense to create mismatches. Defense would have to stay spread out in coverage to deal with Andre, Julio, Walter, Daniels. Could open up even more lanes for Foster.

For the record, I'm not against the BPA method at an area of need at all. I think Duane Brown is a perfect example there and I do like that pick. Like you said, if we could trade down, gain another selection or two and still pick up our targeted player... that would be excellent value.
 
I really don't why the Texans (and teams in general) just don't say something like, "we're going to draft the player(s) that help our team the most at this time", instead of coming up with this baloney about we have a philosophy of taking the BPA ? It's almost like it's a PC-type response ?
 
I am of the opinion that if I have information that a player has better stats than the guy you were targeting and he is still on the board then you draft that guy unless you feel you have a good enough to coach up the player who might just need a little extra help.
 
IDEXAN said:
I really don't why the Texans (and teams in general) just don't say something like, "we're going to draft the player(s) that help our team the most at this time", instead of coming up with this baloney about we have a philosophy of taking the BPA ? It's almost like it's a PC-type response ?
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Well, the next questions will be

"How does the team determine which player will help more?" (We will take the one we think is better).

"What if there are have players at two positions that you like, how does the figure out which one to pick?" (We will take the one we think is better).


In a lot of ways, it is easier to tell the lie that everybody is familair. No extra explaining is needed and asker just moves on to the next question.

BTW, you are right to judge Rick Smith's actual philosophy by his drafting actions, since every NFL team takes BPA (let them tell it).
 
The problem with drafting the BPA is that you can go for years without addressing your "need" positions. Never have understood that phiosophy. If for example you go into the draft needing a RB, CB and OT then for crying out loud draft the best one available when it's your turn to pick! Don't pick a LB cause he's the BPA when you're stacked at that position!
 
gary said:
I am of the opinion that if I have information that a player has better stats than the guy you were targeting and he is still on the board then you draft that guy unless you feel you have a good enough to coach up the player who might just need a little extra help.
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I think there is just so many variables that stats are incredibly misleading and these guys face so many different kinds of competition, you can't make 1 sack against division II equal to 1 sack against the best LT in college. I think if you just viewed stats then there would be zero reason for scouts to watch gamefilm and I want my hometown team doing nothing but watching gamefilm on these guys and finding out about their character.

I'd rather a DE/OLB that has 4 sacks on the season but was constantly taking on double teams that opened things up for his teammates; or was able to shed those blocks and tackle the ball carrier; etc.... than a DE/OLB that faced inferior competition and had 10 sacks.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
I think there is just so many variables that stats are incredibly misleading and these guys face so many different kinds of competition, you can't make 1 sack against division II equal to 1 sack against the best LT in college. I think if you just viewed stats then there would be zero reason for scouts to watch gamefilm and I want my hometown team doing nothing but watching gamefilm on these guys and finding out about their character.

I'd rather a DE/OLB that has 4 sacks on the season but was constantly taking on double teams that opened things up for his teammates; or was able to shed those blocks and tackle the ball carrier; etc.... than a DE/OLB that faced inferior competition and had 10 sacks.
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I don't mean just stats alone but also flim, workouts, ect. I should have made it more clear.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
I said something similar in another thread, but I think that the Texans draft the "best player who fits a need" in the early part of the draft (I estimate through round 3)..
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Exactly. There's no way Kareem Jackson was the "Best Player Available" when the Texans drafted at #20. They had to have a CB. Everyone knew it. A year later and they still need a CB. Or two.

ArlingtonTexan said:
BTW, you are right to judge Rick Smith's actual philosophy by his drafting actions, since every NFL team takes BPA (let them tell it).
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It's all B.S. Just look at last year's 1st round, when the Giants, Cowboys, and the Colts actually didn't draft for need. Of course, sometimes need and BPA meet. And sometimes, a team is so talent deficient that just about any position is needed.

Are the Texans talent deficient at DE? Or WR? I don't think so. And again, the talent available at the Texans need position is not inferior to what is avialable at WR or 5 technique DE.
 
Smith said that the Texans’ draft board won’t change much between now and then.

“(That’s) because the bulk of our evaluation, and we believe that this is the right approach, is based on football, the resume that he’s put on the field,” he said. “And so that is the major portion of it: What kind of football player is he? And that evaluation has already obviously been done.
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.................after we've weeded out all the great players with a mark in detention or a jay-walking citation.
 
I just wish the draft would hurry up & get here. 3-1/2 weeks to go. :d: I've got two blanks in my signature that need to be filled in. :D
 
Im not too confident in Smiths draft preperation .... They havent really nailed a pick in recent memory.

The fans might need some Preperation H after they screw this draft up and give us another season like the last one ..... $8 beer's , $10 nacho's and the worst defense in a decade to go along with a 6-10 season.
 
Corrosion said:
Im not too confident in Smiths draft preperation .... They havent really nailed a pick in recent memory.
The fans might need some Preperation H after they screw this draft up and give us another season like the last one ..... $8 beer's , $10 nacho's and the worst defense in a decade to go along with a 6-10 season.
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including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:

Cushing
Barwin
Caldwell
Quin
Casey
Nolan
AFoster
Jamison
 
dalemurphy said:
including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:

Cushing
Barwin
Caldwell
Quin
Casey
Nolan
AFoster
Jamison
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Maybe Im just blinded by another losing record and an increase in ticket prices ..... But honestly , what did anyone on that list outside of Foster and Quin really contribute to last seasons success .... other than Cushing getting suspended. Yeah , Nolan made a few plays and Jamison saw a bit of action ....


Cushing could return to form .... maybe.

Barwin might make a recovery and an impact .... maybe.

Caldwell may be the C of the future ... maybe.

Nolan might work out at one of the S spots .... or just continue to play ST. Thats better than nuttin.

Quin had a good season .... but the coaching staff / FO might move him and screw up two positions in the process.

Foster had a hell of a year .... can he repeat it - Where the hell is his FB and why didnt they ink him ASAP. But he wasnt drafted and we were talkin about the draft , if they saw so much in him why did he slide by so many teams to become a UDFA ? Homerun as a UDFA but a swing and a miss by .... every team in the draft.

Jamison - does he fit the 3-4 or .... :rake:
 
If they do draft a player for need, the first thing they're going to say is, "He was the Best Player Available," whether it's true or not.
 
wildroot said:
The problem with drafting the BPA is that you can go for years without addressing your "need" positions. Never have understood that phiosophy. If for example you go into the draft needing a RB, CB and OT then for crying out loud draft the best one available when it's your turn to pick! Don't pick a LB cause he's the BPA when you're stacked at that position!
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The problem with we fans is that we like to think it's as simple as insert top RB, CB, or OT into that slot and problem solved. We can all name examples where that didn't really work.

Suppose, to use your example your team needs to upgrade those three spots but the BPA is a WR, LB, or DE. Doesn't it depend on how much of a talent drop-off between the "BPA" and the guys still on the board that fit your need spots?? Say it's round 2 and the best available CB or OT left on the board grade out with low 3rd or top 4th round grades because the few studs at your need positions got snapped up in round one (don't say it can't happen; remember the 1st rd run on OTs when we drafted Duane Brown?) Anyway, the two BPAs are a stud OLB and a solid WR - steals or at least solid 2nd round talent level. Is it really wise to reach one or two rounds and address that need?

Will the CB or OT left on the board (remember they graded out as 3rd/4th rd picks by the draftnik talking heads) have enough to beat out who you have in place? Do the CB or OT fit your system? Did the best OT available come from a run-first college offense when you run a pass-happy offense?

Personally, I'd be on the phone looking to trade down in this example. But if no trade down opportunity shows up I'd be more apt to pick the stud - who I feel could possibly start and certainly contribute - than to reach and pick the "need" guy who may be only marginally better, if that, than who I've got.

All that to say, I don't think it's always as straightforward as we like to think it is.
:texflag:
 
wildroot said:
The problem with drafting the BPA is that you can go for years without addressing your "need" positions.
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And conversely, by passing the BPA(s) on its Board year after year a team is addressing its short-term needs each year while populating it's roster over the long-term with inferior talent.
 
Rick Smith's preparation consists of one large bowl of popcorn and watching Mel Kiper Jr in high def while copying down his big board. Once thats done he cuts out the names, throws them in a hat and who ever he draws from said hat we draft.

Rumor has it that it's the talking hat from those Harry Potter movies.
 
BS. Teams draft for need. Including Rick Smith. We needed a RB, here comes Ben Tate. We needed a cornerback, here comes Kareem Jackson.
 
dalemurphy said:
including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:

Cushing
Barwin
Caldwell
Quin
Casey
Nolan
AFoster
Jamison
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Key word "could". This group hasn't proven jack squat. Cushing and Foster did it one year. I like them both, but they aren't there yet. Barwin had a serious injury. Caldwell coundn't win the RG position. Quin, our best CB, has been average at best. Casey's a STer and rotation TE. Jamison, your new man-crush, hasn't done jack.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Key word "could". This group hasn't proven jack squat. Cushing and Foster did it one year. I like them both, but they aren't there yet. Barwin had a serious injury. Caldwell coundn't win the RG position. Quin, our best CB, has been average at best. Casey's a STer and rotation TE. Jamison, your new man-crush, hasn't done jack.
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"could" was the word I chose.... Most drafts that are only two years old are going to be full of players that have shown promise, had a good season, but haven't "proven jack squat", as you put it.... especially when one of the seasons have been an utter disappointment for the team.

Jamison had 2 sacks and a number of pressures in very limited playing time late in the year.

Foster and Cushing have both been the best player at their position in the NFL for one of their two seasons.

Caldwell heavily participated in, by far, the best OLine in the AFC south last season.

Quin, a 4th round pick, was very good as a rookie and still solid (despite the fiasco in the secondary) last season.

Casey has looked good in his limited opportunities and has a special skill set.

Nolan, in his one year, quickly became our best safety (not much worth bragging about, I realize)

Barwin is going to be great, barring further injury issues... mark it down.
 
HOU-TEX said:
Key word "could". This group hasn't proven jack squat. Cushing and Foster did it one year. I like them both, but they aren't there yet. Barwin had a serious injury. Caldwell coundn't win the RG position. Quin, our best CB, has been average at best. Casey's a STer and rotation TE. Jamison, your new man-crush, hasn't done jack.
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Cushing was Defensive Rookie of the Year and made the Pro Bowl in 2009.

Foster was the NFL's leading rusher this past year and made the Pro Bowl in 2010.

Barwin led all rookie DE's in sacks his rookie season, then got injured.

Caldwell, while not nailing down a starting spot, has provided quality depth and rotated in when needed.

Glover has contributed well to this team since he got here. Perfectly fits the nickle role he was originally drafted for and may even convert to FS and be able to cover slot receivers at the line next year.

Casey - I don't think you can ask for a better 3rd string TE, and he was a 5th round pick.

Nolan - A guy that has a ton of upside and witnessed increased snaps last year. That's all you can ask for in a 7th rounder.


Should, could, or has... that has already turned out to be an above-average draft. Teams would love to hit on 2-3 picks and there's no doubt we've done that... including 2 pro bowlers.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
Cushing was Defensive Rookie of the Year and made the Pro Bowl in 2009.

Foster was the NFL's leading rusher this past year and made the Pro Bowl in 2010.

Barwin led all rookie DE's in sacks his rookie season, then got injured.

Caldwell, while not nailing down a starting spot, has provided quality depth and rotated in when needed.

Glover has contributed well to this team since he got here. Perfectly fits the nickle role he was originally drafted for and may even convert to FS and be able to cover slot receivers at the line next year.

Casey - I don't think you can ask for a better 3rd string TE, and he was a 5th round pick.

Nolan - A guy that has a ton of upside and witnessed increased snaps last year. That's all you can ask for in a 7th rounder.


Should, could, or has... that has already turned out to be an above-average draft. Teams would love to hit on 2-3 picks and there's no doubt we've done that... including 2 pro bowlers.
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I am going to stamp my unprofessional approval upon every player you listed, with the exception of Barwin and Casey.

I can't really debate Barwin very well, basically since he didn't have a 2010 season to debate on here. I am eager to see what he does now, but I just can't begin to say that he has already proven to be a solid pick (yet). I know we have the whole "he was leading all DE rookies in sacks" thing, but I wanted to see what he did in his sophomore season to see if that rookie season was legit or a fluke. I actually think he can excel even more in a 3-4 under Wade Phillips, so he's one of the main guys I'm watching this year to see if it happens. Therefore, I will say that I think he CAN be on your list, I can see reasons why, but I still need to see one more season for myself.

James Casey is a player whom I think is JAG (just a guy). Does he run a route? Yes. Does he catch the ball? Yes. Can he block? Yes, and I've seen him put out some brutal blocks on defenders. But I don't see the breakaway, big play, distance-himself-from-the-crowd output that I expected of him. I want him to be that Dallas Clark kinda' guy; the guy you just don't want to cover and who can lower is shoulder and bulldoze people for extra yards. I'm not sure that him being a great 3rd string TE is proof that he was a good pick. I was hoping he would challenge and maybe even seriously contend for the starting TE job. As seasons go by, he looks more and more like JAG to me.

Until then, I don't think James Casey deserves to be on the list.

Troy Nolan has shown flashes, to me, but I again want to see what he does THIS season.

Anyways, just my thoughts on your post.
 
GP said:
James Casey is a player whom I think is JAG (just a guy). Does he run a route? yes. Does he catch the ball? Yes. Can he block? Yes, and I've seen him put out some brutal blocks on defenders. But I don't see the breakaway, big play, distance-himself-from-the-crowd output that I expected of him. I want him to be that Dallas Clark kinda' guy; the guy you just don't want to cover and who can lower is shoulder and bulldoze people for extra yards.

Until then, I don't think James Casey deserves to be on the list.

Troy Nolan has shown flashes, to me, whereas I haven't seen that from James Casey, otherwise I would debate Troy Nolan on your list.

Anyways, just my thoughts on your post.
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Thanks, I don't disagree one bit. It really really sucks Barwin got injured because I think he can be a HUGE part of this teams success.

In regards to Casey and Nolan... they were 5th and 7th round selections, respectively. Worst case scenario I think they provide quality depth. I don't expect Rick Smith nor any other GM to be able to draft the Dallas Clarks with every selection in the draft.
 
dalemurphy said:
"could" was the word I chose.... Most drafts that are only two years old are going to be full of players that have shown promise, had a good season, but haven't "proven jack squat", as you put it.... especially when one of the seasons have been an utter disappointment for the team.

Jamison had 2 sacks and a number of pressures in very limited playing time late in the year.

Foster and Cushing have both been the best player at their position in the NFL for one of their two seasons.

Caldwell heavily participated in, by far, the best OLine in the AFC south last season.

Quin, a 4th round pick, was very good as a rookie and still solid (despite the fiasco in the secondary) last season.

Casey has looked good in his limited opportunities and has a special skill set.

Nolan, in his one year, quickly became our best safety (not much worth bragging about, I realize)

Barwin is going to be great, barring further injury issues... mark it down.
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Ole Miss Texan said:
Cushing was Defensive Rookie of the Year and made the Pro Bowl in 2009.

Foster was the NFL's leading rusher this past year and made the Pro Bowl in 2010.

Barwin led all rookie DE's in sacks his rookie season, then got injured.

Caldwell, while not nailing down a starting spot, has provided quality depth and rotated in when needed.

Glover has contributed well to this team since he got here. Perfectly fits the nickle role he was originally drafted for and may even convert to FS and be able to cover slot receivers at the line next year.

Casey - I don't think you can ask for a better 3rd string TE, and he was a 5th round pick.

Nolan - A guy that has a ton of upside and witnessed increased snaps last year. That's all you can ask for in a 7th rounder.


Should, could, or has... that has already turned out to be an above-average draft. Teams would love to hit on 2-3 picks and there's no doubt we've done that... including 2 pro bowlers.
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Y'all both basically reiterated what I posted. The only difference is y'all sound sold on players performing well for one year, I'm not.

*edit* BTW, just to clear this up before I get ripped. I really like Foster, Cushing, Casey, Quin and especially Barwin.
 
Ole Miss Texan said:
Worst case scenario I think they provide quality depth. I don't expect Rick Smith nor any other GM to be able to draft the Dallas Clarks with every selection in the draft.
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True, true.

Maybe it was MY expectations that James Casey would evolve into a star caliber of player that is wrong here. And, some guys are late bloomers too.

I guess when we frame it with the "He was a 5th round pick" it kinda' puts it into better perspective. We have had more actual gameday output by this 5th round player out of Rice than we had out of a 1st round defensive lineman from Florida State who is no longer here. So there's THAT to think about.
 
ObsiWan said:
Suppose, to use your example your team needs to upgrade those three spots but the BPA is a WR, LB, or DE. Doesn't it depend on how much of a talent drop-off between the "BPA" and the guys still on the board that fit your need spots?? Say it's round 2 and the best available CB or OT left on the board grade out with low 3rd or top 4th round grades because the few studs at your need positions got snapped up in round one (don't say it can't happen; remember the 1st rd run on OTs when we drafted Duane Brown?) Anyway, the two BPAs are a stud OLB and a solid WR - steals or at least solid 2nd round talent level. Is it really wise to reach one or two rounds and address that need?

:texflag:
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I dunno...I hear what you're saying but I find it hard to believe that if you've identified 3-5 need positions, that you can't find one of those needs within a few spots of where you're pick falls.

I'd rather grab a player a few spots early than take a BPA at LB and have him backup Ryans and Cushing for the next 5 years. The fact that we'd take someone a FEW PICKS early ought not cause too many ripples what with Gary's history of "reaching" on players in some cases a round or two before they were projected.
 
wildroot said:
I dunno...I hear what you're saying but I find it hard to believe that if you've identified 3-5 need positions, that you can't find one of those needs within a few spots of where you're pick falls.

I'd rather grab a player a few spots early than take a BPA at LB and have him backup Ryans and Cushing for the next 5 years. The fact that we'd take someone a FEW PICKS early ought not cause too many ripples what with Gary's history of "reaching" on players in some cases a round or two before they were projected.
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Honestly, this is what happens more than not. In most cases, when a team is on the clock there are several players in a bunch say rated between 86-88. Here you just take the need player and move on even if the need player is 86.

The issues come when by your grading system there is a player who is a 94 sitting there. This player is CLEARLY better than the bunch. this is when BPA theory says take the guy at a so-called non-need position.
 
dalemurphy said:
including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:
My responses are in red.


Cushing - Had a great first season and then was caught for PED's,because he wanted to give birth to a child or whatever the popular excuse is now around here. He was a shell of his former self when he returned last season. What he does next year is anyone's guess.

Barwin - Barwin hasn't done jack yet other than to show potential and a few flashy plays. He hasn't even been a starter for heaven's sake, so please (Not just you) stop acting like he's already a pro bowler when he played one rookie season and the coaching staff didn't even make him a starter. Last year he got hurt, but before annointing him as a pro bowler let the guy show that he's worth all the hype that he's been getting around here.

Caldwell - He's a decent O lineman and nothing more. Why is he on this list?

Quin - He's the best CB on one of the worst secondaries I've ever seen. That's not a compliment. He's a decent enough nickel corner that can hit, but he's nothing to toot the horn of the Texans GM.

Casey - How the hell does he make this list? Casey has been a completely worthless draft pick. Another guy that was given ridiculous hype in here that hasn't matched any of it. To his defense the coaching staff hardly lets him play, but this was a wasted pick, since the coaches don't hardly ever use him.
Nolan

AFoster - UDFA. As much credit that I might give the coaches for him I'll take just as much of it away considering the fact that we benched him his entire first season for Chris Brown and Steve Slaton and we were 3 running plays away from being in the playoffs, but Chris Brown ruined 3 different times.

Jamison- This guy hasn't done jack. Why is he on this list at all?
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TEXANRED said:
Rick Smith's preparation consists of one large bowl of popcorn and watching Mel Kiper Jr in high def while copying down his big board. Once thats done he cuts out the names, throws them in a hat and who ever he draws from said hat we draft.

Rumor has it that it's the talking hat from those Harry Potter movies.
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Looks to me like his preparation consists of reading John McClain's articles in the week leading up to the draft.
 
Mr. White said:
Looks to me like his preparation consists of reading John McClain's articles in the week leading up to the draft.
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Nah - given how poorly McClain's been able to predict the Texans draft in recent years, that's actually the one thing we know he's not doing.
 
Regarding guys not playing (unless they're injured), this coaching staff (as of our last game) has had a serious problem with waiting way too long to notice potential starters. It's very likely that many D players are either not being used correctly, not taught correctly (which isn't necessarily the same thing), not used nearly enough because somebody else is on the field that shouldn't be, or any combination.

Our last DC was just a guy who moved up from the staff before (which sucked) and really wasn't going to change much or improve anything because of that, and I'm hoping that a DC with a pedigree and EXPERIENCE like Phillips will "see the light." He has already mentioned players as either not playing enough or not being put in the best positions to succeed.

The problem is one with Kubiak as well, but it took both Kubiak AND whatever DC to not see it on the D side for it to continue on that side. I don't think Phillips will let that problem continue. I wonder if every HC in the NFL is as clueless on the "other" side of the ball and it takes a really good OC or DC, depending on the HC's clueless "side" to win in this league. I know Kubiak is no exception. He won't win without a really good DC, at least for a LONG time. That's OK as long as we have one.
 
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HJam72 said:
Regarding guys not playing (unless they're injured), this coaching staff (as of our last game) has had a serious problem with waiting way too long to notice potential starters. It's very likely that many D players are either not being used correctly, not taught correctly (which isn't necessarily the same thing), not used nearly enough because somebody else is on the field that shouldn't be, or any combination.

Our last DC was just a guy who moved up from the staff before (which sucked) and really wasn't going to change much or improve anything because of that, and I'm hoping that a DC with a pedigree and EXPERIENCE like Phillips will "see the light." He has already mentioned players as either not playing enough or not being put in the best positions to succeed.

The problem is one with Kubiak as well, but it took both Kubiak AND whatever DC to not see it on the D side for it to continue on that side. I don't think Phillips will let that problem continue. I wonder if every HC in the NFL is as clueless on the "other" side of the ball and it takes a really good OC or DC, depending on the HC's clueless "side" to win in this league. I know Kubiak is no exception. He won't win without a really good DC, at least for a LONG time. That's OK as long as we have one.
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Just gotta nitpick a bit ....

How quickly many forget it was that same DC who "Fixed" that defense the year before ..... after three games they were the worst in the NFL and finished very respectably.
Most expected the improvement to continue which is why we had such high hopes for last season .... It didnt , it went to **** and so did the season.
 
Texecutioner said:
dalemurphy said:
including UDFA, the '09 class could end up being very good to great:
My responses are in red. See the bolded above, "could end up being very good to great".


Cushing - Had a great first season and then was caught for PED's,because he wanted to give birth to a child or whatever the popular excuse is now around here. He was a shell of his former self when he returned last season. What he does next year is anyone's guess.The thing about Cushing for me is that he tested positive at the very beginning of his rookie season and was constantly tested thereafter. Now I don't know how long that stuff he took lasts and helps... but he played great all season even towards the end, while battling numerous injuries. While he definitely regressed his sophomore season, missing those first 4 games was a huge blow and hurt him... as did switching to MLB for 2 games. So he didn't really get in the swing of things to his comfortable self until midseason.

Barwin - Barwin hasn't done jack yet other than to show potential and a few flashy plays. He hasn't even been a starter for heaven's sake, so please (Not just you) stop acting like he's already a pro bowler when he played one rookie season and the coaching staff didn't even make him a starter. Last year he got hurt, but before annointing him as a pro bowler let the guy show that he's worth all the hype that he's been getting around here.True, he's shown potential, but lots of it as a pass rusher. HE wasn't drafted to be come out and be a full time DE and starter. He was drafted to be a pass rush specialist on passing downs. And with that he led all rookie DEs in sacks.

Caldwell - He's a decent O lineman and nothing more. Why is he on this list? He's on this list because he provides quality depth, is far from getting cut. It'd be nice if he was an all pro RG but he's not.... what a crappy draft pick I guess??

Quin - He's the best CB on one of the worst secondaries I've ever seen. That's not a compliment. He's a decent enough nickel corner that can hit, but he's nothing to toot the horn of the Texans GM. And that's exactly what he was drafted for. He's been forced into our #1 CB spot but he was drafted because they loved his ability to tackle and be the nickle corner.

Casey - How the hell does he make this list? Casey has been a completely worthless draft pick. Another guy that was given ridiculous hype in here that hasn't matched any of it. To his defense the coaching staff hardly lets him play, but this was a wasted pick, since the coaches don't hardly ever use him.
NolanCasey has been good on Special Teams. Another crappy draft pick I guess since he's not an All Pro TE?? He's a 5th rounder that's gotten playing time, made some great catches and contributes on STs... good for a 5th round pick.

AFoster - UDFA. As much credit that I might give the coaches for him I'll take just as much of it away considering the fact that we benched him his entire first season for Chris Brown and Steve Slaton and we were 3 running plays away from being in the playoffs, but Chris Brown ruined 3 different times. I don't blame them at all. Foster has said how that tough love has helped him. This isn't Madden where a player comes in and just performs well out of the gates. Sometimes players need time to develop, actually learn some stuff from the coaches, get their heads on straight, etc.

Jamison- This guy hasn't done jack. Why is he on this list at all?
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See my responses in bold. Not every player is going to be a Pro Bowler but hell, we've got two out of them. The others fit in on this team and I don't see them getting cut. Sometimes you need depth and you can't expect every draft pick to come in and start immediately.
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Ole Miss Texan said:
The thing about Cushing for me is that he tested positive at the very beginning of his rookie season and was constantly tested thereafter. Now I don't know how long that stuff he took lasts and helps... but he played great all season even towards the end, while battling numerous injuries.
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Just an FYI Ole Miss - what Cushing tested positive for isn't a PED. It is on the banned list as an adjunct used in recovery from steroid use.
 
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