you could sign Asomugha? Trade Mario for draft choices or a combination of draft choices and maybe a solid veteran defensive player. With the money saved sign Nnamdi. I have never been a Mario fan, but I still thinks this makes sense. The only thing is you may not get much for Mario, but even if you don't it frees up money to sign NA. Sorry if brought up already. We also need a 2 or 1A wide receiver to go along with Andre. thanks
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Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million
- Thread starter gafftop
- Start date
There's no guarantee that Mario will succeed as a 3-4 DE. The Bruce Smith interview that was referenced on here earlier scared the beejeesus out of anyone who's seen Mario play.
I'd trade him in a heartbeat if it either:
A) Assured me someone like Aso
B) Got me moved up in the draft to take the player (like Miller) that we wanted.
There are MANY 4-3 teams that would give plenty for him, he IS a 4-3 DE Pro-Bowler (and deservedly so).
I'd trade him in a heartbeat if it either:
A) Assured me someone like Aso
B) Got me moved up in the draft to take the player (like Miller) that we wanted.
There are MANY 4-3 teams that would give plenty for him, he IS a 4-3 DE Pro-Bowler (and deservedly so).
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Mario is going to count about $17 million against the cap this year, his final year under the current contract. If he's traded, the Texans cap will still be impacted by about $8 million as a result of his signing bonus. The most effective way to create room under the cap with Mario is to re-sign him to an extension. I'm not neccessarily in favor of giving him a huge deal, but, from a cap perspective, he could be retained and the Texans could drop their cap number by close to $10 million the first year or two of a six or seven year deal.
Rest easy, though, because I think the Texans have room under the cap to operate and are planning on taking a run at Nnambi, among others.
I think everyone here will be willing to trade Mario....... or any other person on this team, as long as it makes the team better.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I'd have a hard time doing it. We have way too many question marks in the front seven and well, the defense in general.
I think it's fair to question how well Mario may play in the 3-4 but I have more questions about every single other player on our defense.
Antonio Smith? I love him on this team but he's not exactly the bees knees. pass rushing situations he'll likely move inside in a 4-3... without Mario and Antonio at DE... who is it?
Whose our NT? Earl Mitchell/Shaun Cody
OLB - How will Barwin bounce back from that ankle injury and will that be a recurring problem? Whose our other OLB? Probably 1st or 2nd round rookie.
ILB - How will Demeco come back from injury? Sharpton could be seeing significant playing time early in the season. Is Cushing the other ILB? Looks like so far he is - will he be a probowler there?
Secondary - Alright we've got Asomugha. Our secondary should be much improved but I severely question the pass rush we will be getting. Quin may be moved to Safety? Allen/Jackson as the other CBs? Pick up a SS in the draft I guess.
I would love Aso for this team but with trading Mario we'd have additional holes to fill. We'd "clear" some cap space but we'd need more players to sign and that just creates more burden on the cap. Mario is virtually an every down player and it's unlikey we would find 1 player to replace him... as much as some dislike Mario. If we trade him for draft picks, the CBA is going to have to get done in the next few weeks as the draft is next month... otherwise those picks will be for 2012. Or if we do get it done in time for 2011 draft we could have 3 Rookies playing in the front 7 and 2 players coming off of severe injuries.
Fun to think about but I don't see this happening.
I think it's fair to question how well Mario may play in the 3-4 but I have more questions about every single other player on our defense.
Antonio Smith? I love him on this team but he's not exactly the bees knees. pass rushing situations he'll likely move inside in a 4-3... without Mario and Antonio at DE... who is it?
Whose our NT? Earl Mitchell/Shaun Cody
OLB - How will Barwin bounce back from that ankle injury and will that be a recurring problem? Whose our other OLB? Probably 1st or 2nd round rookie.
ILB - How will Demeco come back from injury? Sharpton could be seeing significant playing time early in the season. Is Cushing the other ILB? Looks like so far he is - will he be a probowler there?
Secondary - Alright we've got Asomugha. Our secondary should be much improved but I severely question the pass rush we will be getting. Quin may be moved to Safety? Allen/Jackson as the other CBs? Pick up a SS in the draft I guess.
I would love Aso for this team but with trading Mario we'd have additional holes to fill. We'd "clear" some cap space but we'd need more players to sign and that just creates more burden on the cap. Mario is virtually an every down player and it's unlikey we would find 1 player to replace him... as much as some dislike Mario. If we trade him for draft picks, the CBA is going to have to get done in the next few weeks as the draft is next month... otherwise those picks will be for 2012. Or if we do get it done in time for 2011 draft we could have 3 Rookies playing in the front 7 and 2 players coming off of severe injuries.
Fun to think about but I don't see this happening.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
Um, nope....
You nailed it disaacks3 ! We know what we've got in Mario now, but we don't know what we'll have with him in our new 3-4 ? If he's less of a player, we lose leverage in a potential trade.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
:mariopalm: and why dont we trade Schaub for a WR. come on Mario WHEN healthy is one of the best most athletic DEs in the NFL. I say he deserves a shot he may get even better in a 3-4. You never know. Plus i think that will just weaken our defensive line and that is one thing we certainly dont need.
Mario is gonna be standing up as well in obvious passing situations to rush the QB most likely...i think he has plenty of opportunity to succeed here, i don't think it's worth it to trade him. He has the respect of every offensive coach and player he lines up against and is someone you have to gameplan for.
Goatcheese
Texan
Mario is the type of elite player that you build an entire defense around. When you get a guy like that you don't trade him away with out an incredibly epic reason.
The Texans would have to get a blockbuster type of deal to even think about it.
What their focus should be on is finding other quality players so Mario doesn't have to be the passrush by himself and can actually sit out a game when he's hurt instead of playing entire seasons crippled by injuries.
The Texans would have to get a blockbuster type of deal to even think about it.
What their focus should be on is finding other quality players so Mario doesn't have to be the passrush by himself and can actually sit out a game when he's hurt instead of playing entire seasons crippled by injuries.
I cant believe Im actually agreeing with EllisUnit.......but I agree.
Better? Really? Care to name several "prototype" 4-3 DEs who suddenly got "better" in a 3-4? Bruce Smith was told that he'd likely have had 100+ more sacks in his career in a 4-3. I like Mario, but he's no Bruce Smith.
Agreed, but a vet at 3-4 DE is a completely different spot than what Mario has played thus far.
The market would likely never be higher for Mario than it is right now. Those of us who worried about going to a 3-4 knew this all up front. Suppose that Mario isn't willing to put in the extra work required of a 3-4 DE? His value will plummet if his production drops like a rock...which is entirely possible.
I'd keep him forever in a 4-3, but this is literally a make/break season for the Texans and he's never shown the abilities that you generally look for in a 3-4 DE. I wish him all the luck in the world if we keep him, but look for his production (and happiness) to fall.
TexCanada
All Pro
I don't agree with this. Phillips has spoken a number of times about adapting a defense around its best players. He will find ways to create match-ups in order for Mario (and our defense) to succeed. Plus, we will likely be in a 4-3 in most third down passing scenarios anyway.
I think this situation is WAY more about Mario then it is about what type of defense we are playing. If Mario commits himself to getting better and playing for the logo, then he will be highly successful in anything he does. If he decides to be selfish/lazy, then he will fail.
gary
Hall of Fame
Right, but if the Texans trade Mario they should at least get back in return what I offered above or maybe slightly less than that.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I think there is way too much simplification going on regarding 4-3 and 3-4 defensive schemes, like they're rigid, set, structured fronts. When in reality, I think Wade can be very creative and fluid with the fronts.
As someone just mentioned, it sounds like we're going to be running a 4-3 during passing situations. Mario as an end, Barwin or another pass rusher likely as the other end, Antonio Smith moving inside to DT. So yes, we know what we have with Mario at 4-3 and we're still going to be having him do that. Wade is also going to be creative and put Mario in situations to succeed. Not every 3-4 DE is asked to do the same thing as all the other 3-4 DEs... I think Mario will be fine.
As far as us losing value or leverage if Mario "fails" as a 3-4 DE... I don't think that's entirely true. It may limit the number of teams that would pursue him but if he still performs well in 4-3 situations I don't think those 4-3 teams would be less interested in him.
As someone just mentioned, it sounds like we're going to be running a 4-3 during passing situations. Mario as an end, Barwin or another pass rusher likely as the other end, Antonio Smith moving inside to DT. So yes, we know what we have with Mario at 4-3 and we're still going to be having him do that. Wade is also going to be creative and put Mario in situations to succeed. Not every 3-4 DE is asked to do the same thing as all the other 3-4 DEs... I think Mario will be fine.
As far as us losing value or leverage if Mario "fails" as a 3-4 DE... I don't think that's entirely true. It may limit the number of teams that would pursue him but if he still performs well in 4-3 situations I don't think those 4-3 teams would be less interested in him.
One of my main concerns and i think one of the main problems in getting something in a trade for Mario is injury concerns. Every year he has "something" that causes him to play below optimum levels. This along with the change in defensive systems, his salary, and his inconsistent effort makes me want to make a trade. I do want it to be a good or at least a fair trade. I also think another year of injuries will lower his trade value. I think it is easier to get a d lineman than a true shutdown corner. IF Mario could play up to his potential then I would not be proposing this trade, but due to injuries he never has. I think you help yourself multiple ways with this trade. Along with the shutdown corner and a proven d lineman you either move up in the draft or get additional quality draft choices. I am afraid next year we will have a repeat of the Carr/Kubiak incident where Kubiak realizes Carr isn't the one and then gets nothing for Carr. I could easily see this happening with Mario/Wade.
I think we over value Mario here in Houston.
rush2112mn
Rookie
I want to see what he does under Wade Phillips first....lets see what Wade can do with him...that is my opinion......
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
The problem is if he doesn't perform well in this system, he loses trade value.
Personally, I think that he'll do well in the new system.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Would he lose value to teams that run a 4-3? I think it would only limit the number of teams that would want him.
Mario is not a pro bowler. We would not be having this discussion if he were a young Julius Peppers or a John Abrahms. What could the Rockets gotten for Yao 3 years ago, what can we get now. The Patriots are constantly rebuilding. They trade their guys while they can get more than what they are worth. I believe Mario will be worth far less next year than what he is worth now. Maybe all he is worth now is a 2nd round draft choice and a journeyman d lineman in which case you keep him and hope. Believe me I hope I am wrong about Mario's future production.
Really?
gary
Hall of Fame
He is when healthy. Sorry. And, what do you base his play on? Hopefully not just sacks because there is more to a solid DE than just sacks. He is totally a force to be dealt with though when playing at a top level for sure and his run defense is underrated.
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Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Not only was he voted to the Pro Bowl in 2008 and 2009 he was snubbed (an alternate) during 2007. Coincidentally he was named First Team All Pro during '07 when he recorded 14 sacks on the season.
Although I don't believe Sacks should be the end all be all measurement when discussing DEs... he has been one of the top ranked DEs in the league since 2006. In my opinion he's one of the best all around DEs in the league.
I don't think his value would drop all that much if he doesn't do well in this system.
gary
Hall of Fame
So, at least a two time Probowler and should have been three. Am I miss counting?
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
If he doesn't perform, people can low ball him on the offers. They can point to his motor and the fact that it's been a few years since he's played well.
It's a bargaining chip.
That's where some of us disagree. I hope you're right, because this discussion may become all too real if he DOESN'T perform well this coming season.
Good post, more or less agree with everything here. It may behove the Texans to get, while the get'n is good.
As a prototypical 3-4 DE, a great game by Mario may go unnoticed, see Igor Olshanski.
But, we're being told Mario will be playing basically the same position he is playing now, with the caveat that he will be moved around to create mis-matches and exploit Mario's talents.
I'd like to see that...... But understand if some are skeptical about this administration, & the things they tell us.
But Mario is Wade's Andre. Just like Kubiak promised he would put Andre in position to be successful, and backed up that claim, there is no reason to believe they are being incincere about their plans for Mario.
Just like Andre had to do his part,a lot will be left up to Mario.
Especially when the known, bonafide, can't get much better DC says he's going to tailor his D to make him successful.
Section516
Warrior
I was just about to post this...Mario's never had anything more than a fourth rate defensive coordinator..never someone exploiting a defense and doing to help MW excel..I'd almost say hes excelled in spite of coaching staff
There ya go folks! Trading Mario would be a Norg move. Think about it.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I SAID he MAY GET better i never said anything to where i need to provide examples. Hell most un drafted free agents don't win a rushing title in their second season but here is last years rushing leader Arian Foster. I think Mario Deserves a shot. He may not become DOMINATE in the 3-4 BUT he will still be a force to be reckoned with rather its the 4-3 r 3-4 IMO.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
i cant believe your agreeing with me either. I might Rep you Positively one day if you keep this up
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
i'd got for the last pick in the 7th. Those guys always turn out to be super stars
I'm not a Rick Smith fan.
But thank God for Rick Smith.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I'm not a Rick Smith fan.
But thank God for Rick Smith.
haha
What the Texans lose:
Mario Williams
Money-
What the Texans gain:
Asomugha
Veteran proven defensive player
Extra draft choices to either move up or draft players
Of course the above may be a pipe dream but if this were the outcome I think it would be hard to pass up. You get 3 players for 1. How can you pass that up with Mario's history.
McNair needs to show that he is trying to turn the Texans into contenders.
Again just my opinion
Mario Williams
Money-
What the Texans gain:
Asomugha
Veteran proven defensive player
Extra draft choices to either move up or draft players
Of course the above may be a pipe dream but if this were the outcome I think it would be hard to pass up. You get 3 players for 1. How can you pass that up with Mario's history.
McNair needs to show that he is trying to turn the Texans into contenders.
Again just my opinion
If you were to trade Mario, there is no surety that you would get Aso here. What is your plan then?
gary
Hall of Fame
Done deal for all of this but I don't think so man.
I don't think so either, but I can dream.