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With the delayed F/A period, do the Texans have to be more aggressive in the draft?

What would you do?

  • Total voters
    43
R

Rey

Guest
With free agency likely coming closer to the start of the season I think the Texans need to be aggressive in this draft. I think they need to make sure they get an impact player. Preferably one that plays a position of need...Preferably a player that plays probably the easiest position to play and have lots of success as a rookie? Preferably a guy that presents a win win situation for almost all involved?

I'm talking about Von Miller.

OLB is a position of need for us. A potential impact player at that position could be huge for us and would help make our transition to the 3-4 that much easier. I think Bob McNair would like it because it would bring more viewers to the game. It would draw more interest from fans in Texas. He could grow his audience.

Maybe Prince drops to us at our pick (who would be good value there), but do we really want to rely on another rookie corner in a secondary that might get even younger? And that doesn't have anything to do with Prince's skills because if we stayed put and he fell that'd be good for us...I think we'd either be able to get a sweet trade down or just take him for ourselves.

I also think that the fans would become re-energized. I know I would. It'd be a bold move and those haven't really been frequent occurrences around here.

Of course Gary would be OK with the obvious connection. And I think we need a player on the edge with the skill set that he has.

Win win for everyone.


But what would you do??

Trade a player(s) or pick(s) to trade up for Von or one of the other top prospects (a DT maybe)? Or wait to see who falls and then make a decision?
 
Texans have multiple defensive needs to address. Without free agency before the draft it puts more premium on positions of need.

Once CBA is in place they can formulate game plan that makes best sense for them to address these needs. The more flexibility Texans have better off they'll be, opening up more potential players on wish list. Not to mention this draft is probably the last where players coming out still get big rookie contracts which adds prohibitive expense to salary cap equation.
 
beerlover said:
Texans have multiple defensive needs to address. Without free agency before the draft it puts more premium on positions of need.

Once CBA is in place they can formulate game plan that makes best sense for them to address these needs. The more flexibility Texans have better off they'll be, opening up more potential players on wish list. Not to mention this draft is probably the last where players coming out still get big rookie contracts which adds prohibitive expense to salary cap equation.
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Will not disagree with anything you are saying.

But without Free agency wouldn't the Texans need to do their best to find a player that has the most potential to significantly upgrade this defense?

If we stat at 11 it is probable that the best player available will be an offensive player. If we trade down into the twenties are we really getting a guy that we think is going to make an impact from day 1?

That's what we need. An impact player over there. A player that can make a significant impact to our level of play. We can use free agency (when it comes) to get guys that we are confident can step in and start from day 1.

Trading down for a 20 something pick and selecting a D-lineman just doesn't appeal to me. Drafting a bunch 2nd and 3rd rounders and giving them significant/starting roles appeals to me less and less.

Even if trading back landed a Vince Wilfork, I'd rather trade up for a Clay Matthews...Just my preference...
 
I like the idea of the Texans trading up and getting an impact player but I doubt Bob McNair does. Players in the top 10 are much more expensive to sign and I doubt Bob wants to shell out the money.

More than anything I think it really doesn't matter if we trade up or down so long as we get our picks right by evaluating the talent properly. No more reaches for 3rd round small school CB's who never make it to the field when you have obvious holes on the O-line, 2nd round DE's who only see the field about 10% of the time, when healthy, especially after we just signed our biggest FA at the DE. No more picking 6th and 7th string TE's to sit on the practice squad or bench when we lack starter level players elsewhere. No more stupid picks, no more wasting picks. I think it's most important that we get good quality players regardless of what round we pick them in and be aggressive with the trades. Use those 5th, 6th, and 7th round picks to trade up in the 2nd or 3rd rounds if there's a player they really like. We need 3-4 quality players, not 7-8 mediocre ones.
 
Rey said:
Will not disagree with anything you are saying.

But without Free agency wouldn't the Texans need to do their best to find a player that has the most potential to significantly upgrade this defense?

If we stat at 11 it is probable that the best player available will be an offensive player. If we trade down into the twenties are we really getting a guy that we think is going to make an impact from day 1?

That's what we need. An impact player over there. A player that can make a significant impact to our level of play. We can use free agency (when it comes) to get guys that we are confident can step in and start from day 1.

Trading down for a 20 something pick and selecting a D-lineman just doesn't appeal to me. Drafting a bunch 2nd and 3rd rounders and giving them significant/starting roles appeals to me less and less.

Even if trading back landed a Vince Wilfork, I'd rather trade up for a Clay Matthews...Just my preference...
Click to expand...

Clay Matthews was drafted #26

so he qualifies as a 20 something pick doesn't he?

yet you would rather trade up to get him? :vincepalm:
 
Stay put and take the best player available. There is enough talent on the defensive side of the ball in this draft. We'll get a good one at #11. Don't drain an asset if you don't have to.
 
m5kwatts said:
Stay put and take the best player available. There is enough talent on the defensive side of the ball in this draft. We'll get a good one at #11. Don't drain an asset if you don't have to.
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The only player I would trade up for would be Peterson.

Also taking BPA at #11 and trading back into the bottom of the 1st rd. If there's sombody that Gary and Rick like should also be an option.
 
steelbtexan said:
The only player I would trade up for would be Peterson.

Also taking BPA at #11 and trading back into the bottom of the 1st rd. If there's sombody that Gary and Rick like should also be an option.
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Without a collective bargaining agreement in place, I don't see teams being eager to jump into the top 5 or 6 picks of the draft. There's no way to know the financial ramifications of it. Also, without knowing what will constitute a free agent or what the dynamics of the new agreement are going to be, it makes a lot more sense to be conservative.

Though unlikely, there is even the possibility of the union decertifying and making every player in the league a free agent.
 
dalemurphy said:
Without a collective bargaining agreement in place, I don't see teams being eager to jump into the top 5 or 6 picks of the draft. There's no way to know the financial ramifications of it. Also, without knowing what will constitute a free agent or what the dynamics of the new agreement are going to be, it makes a lot more sense to be conservative
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Good point

But as bad as the defense was last yr they need to add aleast 3/4 starters in the draft and FA.

Since nobody knows when/if there will be a FA period. I could see taking Amakamura at 11 and then trading up to 25 and taking somebody like J.Houston.

Bottom line is the Texans are behind the 8 ball this offseason and have to take some chances. Although I could see what you said above as one of the many excuses they would use for not being agressive.

Another yr another round of excuses seems to be the motto of BoB,Gary and Rick.
 
steelbtexan said:
Since nobody knows when/if there will be a FA period. I could see taking Amakamura at 11 and then trading up to 25 and taking somebody like J.Houston.
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I love that idea. Steelbtexan for GM? We need quality not quantity of players so use those late round picks as fuel to move up in the 2nd and 3rd and get the good players. Maybe even trade some of our current roster fodder for some extra 4th or 5th round picks.
 
beerlover said:
Clay Matthews was drafted #26

so he qualifies as a 20 something pick doesn't he?

yet you would rather trade up to get him? :vincepalm:
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You really missed the point of what I said didn't you...

I'm talking about talent level between Von Miller and any DT we could pick in the twenty range.

Arian Foster was undrafted so I guess it's OK for us to just pick up those guys and expect them to come in and start.
 
dalemurphy said:
Without a collective bargaining agreement in place, I don't see teams being eager to jump into the top 5 or 6 picks of the draft. There's no way to know the financial ramifications of it. Also, without knowing what will constitute a free agent or what the dynamics of the new agreement are going to be, it makes a lot more sense to be conservative.

Though unlikely, there is even the possibility of the union decertifying and making every player in the league a free agent.
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I thought that the draft and rookie contracts this year would fall under the previous rules.

I thought it was next years draft that would be affected.
 
Wolf6151 said:
I love that idea. Steelbtexan for GM? We need quality not quantity of players so use those late round picks as fuel to move up in the 2nd and 3rd and get the good players. Maybe even trade some of our current roster fodder for some extra 4th or 5th round picks.
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Can't happen before a new CBA is reached.
 
steelbtexan said:
Also taking BPA at #11 and trading back into the bottom of the 1st rd. If there's sombody that Gary and Rick like should also be an option.
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I'm starting to see a scenario where we don't significantly upgrade the talent on defense.

I really don't think that adding average talent is going to make this a good defense next year...We need to add at least one guy that can be an impact player.

I really don't care where that player comes from (draft or FA). It's just that with free agency being delayed I wouldn't want to put all my eggs in that basket.

Our defense has some tremendous holes. We have players that are coming off major injury that will likely take a while to get back into form. We have key players that have underperformed. We are switching to a brand new defense. Our starters at SS and FS last year are currently not on the team. Our starting corners aren't all that and we don't have quality depth there.

Even with all those holes and question marks I don't think trading up to get a potential impact player will preclude us from getting good players later in the draft and in FA that can be role players.


We need play makers something serious.
 
A team can't make up its mind to be more aggressive in the draft, before the draft occurs. A team needs to have multiple plans of action based on what ACTUALLY happens versus what people SPECULATE will happen. In late April, the best move maybe to stay where you are or trade down versus being aggressive. IMO, the best team are able to analyze the ovaral situation, not just in the first round and figure out the course of action while the draft is occuring.

That said, if the CBA isn't resolved before the draft with some version of FA, I think teams will draft more for need and that draft picks will be worth more..i.e. trading up will cost the aggressive team more meaning that they better darn sure of who they are trading to get.
 
Rey said:
You really missed the point of what I said didn't you...

I'm talking about talent level between Von Miller and any DT we could pick in the twenty range.

Arian Foster was undrafted so I guess it's OK for us to just pick up those guys and expect them to come in and start.
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yeah I get it since Texans have such poor talent record in evaluation skills department, they need to trade up so they don't miss an impact player.
 
beerlover said:
yeah I get it since Texans have such poor talent record in evaluation skills department, they need to trade up so they don't miss an impact player.
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Yep

It increases your odds of getting an impact player and decreases the % of bust factor. Rick and Gary are such poor drafters. So anything that lowers bust potential would be a good thing.
 
So far, Kubiak seems to be set on the notion that one of the players on the current roster might be suited for the nose.

"If you look at our football (team) now, we have Earl Mitchell, who's a young guy who played well for us last year," Kubiak said. "And Shaun Cody - we think they both give us an excellent chance to play well at the nose position. We'll be a little small there as we get started."
&&
So with the first draft selection likely to be used to improve the Texans defense, you might think nose tackle would be important enough to address with the pick. Or perhaps the need at the nose tackle position will be the most emphasized during free agency. Nope. Kubiak says otherwise.

"We know where our holes are as we get started with our defensive football team," Kubiak said. "It starts with our corner and our outside linebacker. We've got to fix those things." http://blogs.chron.com/fanzone/2011/02/kubiak_emphasizes_needs_at_olb.html
&&
For people who are almost always very reticent, this is really a surprising statement by Kubiak in terms of how specific he is in stating the Texans needs/top priorities with the transition to their new 3-4 under Wade.
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep

It increases your odds of getting an impact player and decreases the % of bust factor. Rick and Gary are such poor drafters. So anything that lowers bust potential would be a good thing.
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IDEXAN said:
So far, Kubiak seems to be set on the notion that one of the players on the current roster might be suited for the nose.

"If you look at our football (team) now, we have Earl Mitchell, who's a young guy who played well for us last year," Kubiak said. "And Shaun Cody - we think they both give us an excellent chance to play well at the nose position. We'll be a little small there as we get started."
&&
So with the first draft selection likely to be used to improve the Texans defense, you might think nose tackle would be important enough to address with the pick. Or perhaps the need at the nose tackle position will be the most emphasized during free agency. Nope. Kubiak says otherwise.

"We know where our holes are as we get started with our defensive football team," Kubiak said. "It starts with our corner and our outside linebacker. We've got to fix those things." http://blogs.chron.com/fanzone/2011/02/kubiak_emphasizes_needs_at_olb.html
&&
For people who are almost always very reticent, this is really a surprising statement by Kubiak in terms of how specific he is in stating the Texans needs/top priorities with the transition to their new 3-4 under Wade.
Click to expand...

The problem as I see it is that even if the poor scouting skills with the accompanying consequences we have endured over the years is corrected, we are still left with another variable with just as much of a concern.........one of evaluation of skills and realistic potential of those already on the team. If the latter problem........establishing true NEED...... can't be corrected, how do you end up with the proper players in the draft OR FA that will actually help you?

So far the Texans have had difficulties (especially on the D) in all THREE facets necessary to build a successful team.............1) evaluation of existing players and, therefore, team needs; 2) evaluation of the skills and field readiness and potential of draft candidates and FAs; and 3) effective development of all aforementioned players. ALL will have to change SIMULTANEOUSLY for this next season not to turn into much of the SOS.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The problem as I see it is that even if the poor scouting skills with the accompanying consequences we have endured over the years is corrected, we are still left with another variable with just as much of a concern.........one of evaluation of skills and realistic potential of those already on the team. If the latter problem........establishing true NEED...... can't be corrected, how do you end up with the proper players in the draft OR FA that will actually help you?

So far the Texans have had difficulties (especially on the D) in all THREE facets necessary to build a successful team.............1) evaluation of existing players and, therefore, team needs; 2) evaluation of the skills and field readiness and potential of draft candidates and FAs; and 3) effective development of all aforementioned players. ALL will have to change SIMULTANEOUSLY for this next season not to turn into much of the SOS.
Click to expand...

Short answer, you cant fix what's wrong with the Texans without a regime change. Even if you could fix all of the problems that you mentioned above. There would still be the in game management problems that seem to stump Good Ole Gary.

BTW, I agree with Gary on OLB and CB being the 2 biggest needs on the defense. Followed by S and NT, hopefully Phillips has the most say so in the war room and the Texans draft differently than they usually do. (Take BPA) Instead of reaching for need, The Texans defense has holes at all levels of defense. (The same could be said of upper management on the football operations side)

They need to start drafting the best football players and stop the 3 stooges routine that BoB described is going on in the war room. Maybe Phillips can bring that sense of order to the war room. I have my doubts. But time will tell.
 
IDEXAN said:
So far, Kubiak seems to be set on the notion that one of the players on the current roster might be suited for the nose.

"If you look at our football (team) now, we have Earl Mitchell, who's a young guy who played well for us last year," Kubiak said. "And Shaun Cody - we think they both give us an excellent chance to play well at the nose position. We'll be a little small there as we get started."
&&
So with the first draft selection likely to be used to improve the Texans defense, you might think nose tackle would be important enough to address with the pick. Or perhaps the need at the nose tackle position will be the most emphasized during free agency. Nope. Kubiak says otherwise.

"We know where our holes are as we get started with our defensive football team," Kubiak said. "It starts with our corner and our outside linebacker. We've got to fix those things." http://blogs.chron.com/fanzone/2011/02/kubiak_emphasizes_needs_at_olb.html
&&
For people who are almost always very reticent, this is really a surprising statement by Kubiak in terms of how specific he is in stating the Texans needs/top priorities with the transition to their new 3-4 under Wade.
Click to expand...


I guess it really just depends on what you think of the players you'd be trading up for.

Everyone knows where the holes are.

I think Von Miller is an elite talent and a very good pass rusher. I think he'd do more for our defense than any other OLB + collection of other players drafted... JMO.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The problem as I see it is that even if the poor scouting skills with the accompanying consequences we have endured over the years is corrected, we are still left with another variable with just as much of a concern.........one of evaluation of skills and realistic potential of those already on the team. If the latter problem........establishing true NEED...... can't be corrected, how do you end up with the proper players in the draft OR FA that will actually help you?

So far the Texans have had difficulties (especially on the D) in all THREE facets necessary to build a successful team.............1) evaluation of existing players and, therefore, team needs; 2) evaluation of the skills and field readiness and potential of draft candidates and FAs; and 3) effective development of all aforementioned players. ALL will have to change SIMULTANEOUSLY for this next season not to turn into much of the SOS.
Click to expand...
But doesn't Wade Phillips bring us a fresh start in this area and therefor there's the opportunity for us to draft better defensively than in the past ?
And I realize that Phillips of course is not a talent evaluator/scout per se, he's a coach but it would seem with his very extensive background and experience our ability to identitfy the players we need for our defense to succeed is better than in the past ?
 
Trade down.

1. Drafting is an inexact science. If you trade up and give up a lot of picks for a bust you have failed exponentially more than if you stayed put and took players.

2. Since drafting is an inexact science, more shots means more opportunities to get a player.

3. The Texans have massive holes all over the Defense. While it would be nice to draft a potential shut down corner, the team would be better off filling three holes with average players than filling one hole with a superstar.
 
Why have some teams flourished more in drafts more than others? It's not just their ability to project & evaluate talent better its also about out maneuvering other teams to put yourself in best position to fill team needs by staying fluid come draft day. Look at teams in much worse shape than the Texans just a couple years ago but have shown a better aptitude for rebuilding their roster quickly by using assets to improve draft position. KC for example used a bottom up approach while Green Bay simply made a defensive scheme change, like the Texans (with our old ball coach Capers) & with a little luck in the draft (year they changed, happened to have a top 5 NT B.J. Raji & OLB Clay Matthews late in 1st).

If the Texans can trade down & still get a player they target, having an extra pick gives them some flexibility to move back up if another player they covet drops to a slot where value dictates a move up. Focus on addressing two primary needs with starters. The focus has been too much emphasis on just the first pick, its really the first TWO or possibly THREE picks, while the Texans have done alright with the first pick, on average, they've lacked that one two punch. Pretty simple rule if you follow it year after year. So think of combinations which suit Texans needs like CB/OLB ~ OLB/CB ~ OLB/NT ~ CB/FS & how you can maximize talent/value to meet need.

trade down to have ability to trade back up options otherwise risk giving up picks like the Babin deal or address need with another quality player 3 for 2 (OLB, CB, NT). Now we just have to figure who we would not be willing to pass on with the 11th pick if they're there? starting with Von Miller & ending with Robert Quinn/Aldon Smith.
 
IDEXAN said:
But doesn't Wade Phillips bring us a fresh start in this area and therefor there's the opportunity for us to draft better defensively than in the past ?
And I realize that Phillips of course is not a talent evaluator/scout per se, he's a coach but it would seem with his very extensive background and experience our ability to identitfy the players we need for our defense to succeed is better than in the past ?
Click to expand...

Then you've also REALLY got to BELIEVE that BOB will tell Smith to for the most part "zip it" and hand Phillips unfettered reign.
 
Texans see LB Miller as Perfect Fit

INDIANAPOLIS — The Texans need a pass-rushing outside linebacker for their new 3-4 defense, and the best prospect is Texas A&M's Von Miller.

No matter how much coach Gary Kubiak wishes he could acquire one of the greatest defensive players in Aggies history, there's one problem: Miller won't be around when the Texans make the 11th pick in the first round. Miller, who was 6-2½ and 246 pounds at the scouting combine, is one of the few elite prospects in this draft, and he is not expected to last beyond the fifth pick.

"It would be great to play for the Houston Texans, an hour away from Aggieland," Miller said with a smile during his interview session with the media.

Like Kubiak, who played at Texas A&M, Miller is an Aggie through and through.

"I know a lot about the Texans," Miller said. "Coach Kubiak is a great Aggie. They have coach (new linebackers coach Reggie) Herring. They have Wade Phillips with the 3-4 defense.

"I think it would be great to play for the Aggies and the Houston Texans for years to come."

But it's not going to happen unless the Texans were to trade up in the first round, and even if they were willing, it would be difficult for another team to pass up Miller.

In his last two years with the Aggies, Miller had 27½ sacks and 39 tackles for loss. He was highly rated when he went to Mobile, Ala., for the Senior Bowl. When he left, he had created a buzz because his stock was skyrocketing.

"Not only is Von a great player, but he's a great person, too, a captain and a team leader," Aggies coach Mike Sherman said. "He's got so much talent. You don't see many as explosive as he is."

Until Miller arrived in Indianapolis, some scouts thought he was too light at 237 pounds. He said he began last season at 243, finished at 237 and wants to play in the 240s.

"I've been eating like crazy, but it's all been good weight," Miller said. "I've been working out real hard with all those guys in Orange County (California) like (quarterback) Jake Locker and (defensive end) Ryan Kerrigan.

"Honestly, I didn't even know I put on that weight. I was just working hard trying to maximize days, finish all my reps, and eating all my food.

"I was just trying to work out at the best of my ability. I stepped on the scale, and it said, '246.' I was like, 'Whoa.' I just want to be the best player I can be. I just want to get bigger, stronger, faster."

When describing what kind of NFL player he wants to be, Miller mentioned Green Bay's Clay Matthews III, one of the best 3-4 pass rushers in the league.

"I like the way Clay Matthews plays," he said. "His fanatical effort to the ball and all of that stuff - I try to incorporate that into my game.

"I can never ever play like Clay Matthews, but the way he attacks the ball, his relentless effort to the football, I can do that, though."
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http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/texans-see-lb-miller-as-perfect-fit-for-34-470028.html
 
You could insert the name of more than 1/2 of the teams in place of "HOUSTON TEXANS" depending on what source is interviewing him.:bubbles:
 
Typical McLame. Nowhere in that article does anyone on the Texans make a comment about Miller.
 
JB said:
Typical McLame. Nowhere in that article does anyone on the Texans make a comment about Miller.
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Yup. When Capers/Casserly were here he had a lot of "team sources say" type comments. Basically none under Kubiak/Smith.
 
JB said:
Typical McLame. Nowhere in that article does anyone on the Texans make a comment about Miller.
Click to expand...

infantrycak said:
Yup. When Capers/Casserly were here he had a lot of "team sources say" type comments. Basically none under Kubiak/Smith.
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Completely agree with what you guys are saying.

But...Isn't it highly plausible that he's guessing right this time...That the Texans would actually love to have him....
 
Rey said:
Completely agree with what you guys are saying.

But...Isn't it highly plausible that he's guessing right this time...That the Texans would actually love to have him....
Click to expand...

Sure. Even a blind McClame finds a truffle every once in a while.

Was really just commenting that McClain made his name as an insider not an analyst. For example I remember him citing team sources when he started talking about Dunta Robinson being drafted. Since Kubiak got here he has had to try to become an actual student of the game.
 
Rey said:
Just curious, but what was it about that article that made you want him?
Click to expand...

I guess because he seems to want to be a Texan. I mean, who wants to be a Houston Texan??? So that attitude, along with being a badass LB that we need for our new D, is enough for me.

I'm just a fan, though, so it's quite easy to make these wishful demands. :D
 
Double Barrel said:
I guess because he seems to want to be a Texan. I mean, who wants to be a Houston Texan??? So that attitude, along with being a badass LB that we need for our new D, is enough for me.

I'm just a fan, though, so it's quite easy to make these wishful demands. :D
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Ok..Cool...

I was impressed that he knew about our coaches and what was going on with us...That made me really believe that he would not mind being a Texan..

I read today that he still ran a 4.46 at the combine even after the weight gain...That kind of explosiveness in our LB corps and rushing the passer from the edge would be a great change of pace around here...

Like you I'm just a fan, but I think this kid could be real special..
 
Double Barrel said:
I guess because he seems to want to be a Texan. I mean, who wants to be a Houston Texan??? So that attitude, along with being a badass LB that we need for our new D, is enough for me.

I'm just a fan, though, so it's quite easy to make these wishful demands. :D
Click to expand...

He also said..but it was left out..that he'd love to play in Dallas because Dallas isn't far away either. So overall both teams could have incentive to make a splash. Though I think he goes Top 5 and both won't make a move

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.../aggies-miller-it-would-be-great-to-play.html


Though he may not last to pick No. 9 or No. 11, Texas A&M's Von Miller told the media at the NFL Combine that playing so close to his home in Dallas and to his new home in Aggieland -- whether it be with the Cowboys or Texans -- would be something he'd be very interested in.

"It would be great to play for the Houston Texans, an hour away from Aggieland," Miller said. "It's a strong Aggie following, all over the world but particularly in Houston. We've got a lot of fans out there. It's an hour away from College Station. Houston and Dallas, they both have a lot of Aggies there. I think it would be great to play for the Aggies and the Houston Texans for ... years to come."
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Where is horribly scout players and blow picks on Jabroni's? Then refuse to upgrade positions because Rick Smith is a genius and obviously picked great players. I pick that option. Oh, and draft another tight end.
 
It's a do or die year with the coaching staff.

Trade up and take an immediate impact player in Von Miller. If not then sit back and wait for another .500 or sub-par season again.
 
HoustonFrog said:
He also said..but it was left out..that he'd love to play in Dallas because Dallas isn't far away either. So overall both teams could have incentive to make a splash. Though I think he goes Top 5 and both won't make a move

http://collegesportsblog.dallasnews.../aggies-miller-it-would-be-great-to-play.html
Click to expand...

Even though I'm not a Cowboys fan, I can understand wanting to play for Dallas. Both in terms of being from Texas, playing at A&M, and the history of the franchise, it makes sense.
 
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