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Mighty Quin on proposed trade

srrono

All Pro
today on 790 The Mighty Quin spoke of a proposed trade between houston and denver of Mario Williams for Elvis Dumervil anyone else hear this?
 

Second Honeymoon

Hall of Fame
I am not a huge Mario guy, but that would be a bad trade. If it was for a healthy and productive Elvis that had had a good year and wasn't coming off a major injury, I would be more open to it...but Elvis was hurt.

I would be open to trading Mario for a Top5 maybe a Top10 overall pick in this NFL draft, but other than that we just need to see how Mario does in the new 3-4 alignment.
 

BigBull17

Hall of Fame
I am not a huge Mario guy, but that would be a bad trade. If it was for a healthy and productive Elvis that had had a good year and wasn't coming off a major injury, I would be more open to it...but Elvis was hurt.

I would be open to trading Mario for a Top5 maybe a Top10 overall pick in this NFL draft, but other than that we just need to see how Mario does in the new 3-4 alignment.
Mario for a draft pick? That's not very good for us. To much uncertainty, especially with Rick Smith drafting. You would have to get a haul. Similar to Jared Allen.
 

Yankee_In_TX

Dance Lindsay!
LOL, so it would be in the same offseason (probably, we'll see if Bush takes a pay cut) - VY cut, Bush cut, and Mario traded?
 

El Tejano

Hall of Fame
A long time ago I either posted or created a thread talking about this possibility. I mentioned that my brother talked about the reasons why trading Mario wouldn't be a bad idea. Some of you agreed and some thought we were crazy. It doesn't seem so crazy now but like Second Honeymoon said, Mario for a previously injured player is not a good idea IMO. However I do have to consider the fact that every year we are given the same line that Mario disappearing in November is because he's playing injured.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
who's proposing the trade - Houston, Denver, or 790?
Just speculation.

And Dumervil has an extremely odd contract that pays $14 mil next year and goes down each year after. If he performs well that is just begging for problems. Plus while I agree Dumervil is not as well suited to a 4-3 I think Mario can excel in either system.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
A long time ago I either posted or created a thread talking about this possibility. I mentioned that my brother talked about the reasons why trading Mario wouldn't be a bad idea. Some of you agreed and some thought we were crazy. It doesn't seem so crazy now but like Second Honeymoon said, Mario for a previously injured player is not a good idea IMO. However I do have to consider the fact that every year we are given the same line that Mario disappearing in November is because he's playing injured.
Sounds just as crazy now as it ever did.

That article is nothing more than a guy with a blog & nothing but time on his hands. No one remotely associated with either team is even discussing this as a possibility.
 

2slik4u

Veteran
Absolutely not. Mario is a guy you build your entire defense around. He is going to be great for a long time. He provides other things to our defense other than sack totals.

Not my chair, not my problem. Nope. Not eva.
 

Brisco_County

Apples and roadmaps
Dumerville is more inclined to injury than Mario. I dont' like it.

There shouldn't be a discussion of trading Mario unless he is refusing to accept the new system.
 

dc_txtech

All Pro
Absolutely not. Mario is a guy you build your entire defense around. He is going to be great for a long time. He provides other things to our defense other than sack totals.

Not my chair, not my problem. Nope. Not eva.
Johnny hammersticks ova here hammerin away.
 
Just speculation.

And Dumervil has an extremely odd contract that pays $14 mil next year and goes down each year after. If he performs well that is just begging for problems. Plus while I agree Dumervil is not as well suited to a 4-3 I think Mario can excel in either system.
Dumervill excelled in the 4-3 as a DE.
2007 :as a rookie, 8.5 sacks in 13 games.(Denver in 4-3)
2008: second year player, 12.5 sacks in 16 games (Denver in 4-3)
2009: Third year, 5 sacks in 16 games, (first year in 3-4)
2010: Fourth year, 17 sacks in 16 games (second year in 3-4).

Dumervill is a football player. He excels in the 4-3 as a DE and the 3-4 as an OLB.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Dumerville is more inclined to injury than Mario. I dont' like it.

There shouldn't be a discussion of trading Mario unless he is refusing to accept the new system.

I think the trade talk is nonsense, but so is your statement that "Dumervil is more inclined to injury than Mario".

2006: Mario ineffective because of a foot injury
2007: great year
2008: great year
2009: Mario has shoulder injury that limits effectiveness all season
2010: Mario sucks except for 3 games because of sports hernia, eventual IR

That isn't exactly the best track record for a guy in his mid 20s.
 

Carr Bombed

Hall of Fame
I am not a huge Mario guy, but that would be a bad trade. If it was for a healthy and productive Elvis that had had a good year and wasn't coming off a major injury, I would be more open to it...but Elvis was hurt.

I would be open to trading Mario for a Top5 maybe a Top10 overall pick in this NFL draft, but other than that we just need to see how Mario does in the new 3-4 alignment.
Mario is hurt every year also.... it's only a matter of time until those injuries start stacking up and he also misses games. Then throw in the fact that nobody knows what kind of player he's going to be in a 3-4 defense (He is no Bruce Smith).

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Mario is hurt every year also.... it's only a matter of time until those injuries start stacking up and he also misses games. Then throw in the fact that nobody knows what kind of player he's going to be in a 3-4 defense (He is no Bruce Smith).

I'd do this deal in a heartbeat.
I'm not sure I would do the deal. One thing to think about, though, is the contract situation. Mario has one year left on his deal. Elvis has 5, I think. What is most significant about that is the trading team is responsible for the signing bonus figure on the salary cap... So, while trading Mario away would cost the Texans about a $3 million hit on the cap for 2011, none of Dumervil's signing bonus would ever count against the Texans cap. Therefore, his rather large contract would turn into a heck of a bargain because the Texans would only owe him his actual yearly salaries through 2015... In that respect, it would be an unbelievable deal...

actually, I just talked myself into it. I wish it wasn't make-believe, because the Texans would be foolish not to do it!
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
Dumervill excelled in the 4-3 as a DE.
2007 :as a rookie, 8.5 sacks in 13 games.(Denver in 4-3)
2008: second year player, 12.5 sacks in 16 games (Denver in 4-3)
2009: Third year, 5 sacks in 16 games, (first year in 3-4)
2010: Fourth year, 17 sacks in 16 games (second year in 3-4).

Dumervill is a football player. He excels in the 4-3 as a DE and the 3-4 as an OLB.
Dumervil is great at getting sacks but that isn't the only thing a 4-3 DE has to do. He isn't near the complete DE Mario is hence his having almost half as many tackles.

I'm not sure I would do the deal. One thing to think about, though, is the contract situation. Mario has one year left on his deal. Elvis has 5, I think. What is most significant about that is the trading team is responsible for the signing bonus figure on the salary cap... So, while trading Mario away would cost the Texans about a $3 million hit on the cap for 2011, none of Dumervil's signing bonus would ever count against the Texans cap. Therefore, his rather large contract would turn into a heck of a bargain because the Texans would only owe him his actual yearly salaries through 2015... In that respect, it would be an unbelievable deal...

actually, I just talked myself into it. I wish it wasn't make-believe, because the Texans would be foolish not to do it!
The $3 mil is chicken feed. The major guarantee in Dumervil's contract is the salaries for the first three years, two now, because they are fully guaranteed. And the contract is set up as a hand grenade with the salaries front loaded. I just don't like the situation. Either you are guaranteeing a huge salary next year of $14 mil ($12 mil the next year) and he gets injured or if he stays healthy and plays well he is not playing out a contract that pays him millions less each year.
 

Scooter

Funky
my issue with this proposed trade is that we'd be giving up a complete player for a specialist - at potentially the same position. i've been saying it for a couple years now that i think mario will actually perform better inside as a 3-4 defensive end. in my opinion mario has much more of richard seymore's skillset than he does a demarcus ware or even julius peppers - but he has enough of all that he can play the end position, outside DE in a nickel, as well as a stand up rusher. he can do all at a very high level while with dumerville you'd get a specialist.

it's a LOT easier to find and draft specialists than it is to get an anchor ... and easier to get those specialists (as well as the most out of them) when you already have an anchor in place. there's no way i'd make this move atleast until i see what barwin and/or draft pick do when playing beside mario - trading assets for someone like dumerville might be completely unnecessary.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Dumervil is great at getting sacks but that isn't the only thing a 4-3 DE has to do. He isn't near the complete DE Mario is hence his having almost half as many tackles.



The $3 mil is chicken feed. The major guarantee in Dumervil's contract is the salaries for the first three years, two now, because they are fully guaranteed. And the contract is set up as a hand grenade with the salaries front loaded. I just don't like the situation. Either you are guaranteeing a huge salary next year of $14 mil ($12 mil the next year) and he gets injured or if he stays healthy and plays well he is not playing out a contract that pays him millions less each year.
At the risk of asserting certainty despite a total lack of information: There is no way Dumervil's salary is $14 million next year. Perhaps his cap # is scheduled to be that in Denver next season... However, the cap # is figured by adding the scheduled salary with the signing bonus divided by contract years. So, if the signing bonus was $24 over the six year contract, then $4 million of that $14 million wouldn't transfer to Houston in a trade.

Therefore, if I am right about the mistake you are making, the Texans would owe $10 million in 2011 and $8 million in 2012... that still seems high. And, if his salary is descending as you have said it is, then I agree that will be asking for trouble.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
No way does McNair & Co. trade Mario. I would be shocked if the idea would even be considered under the the most favorable of circumstances. If Mario was a trouble-maker, maybe, but he's not and he's one of the faces of the franchise as a very high profile no. 1 pick.

It will be interesting to see how Mario does under Wade's system, though. Wade is a proven commodity as DC, so if anything, this will certainly be a confirmation of Mario's skill set and true potential. I'm actually optimistic about it, and look forward to the defense that Wade establishes with this team.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
At the risk of asserting certainty despite a total lack of information: There is no way Dumervil's salary is $14 million next year. Perhaps his cap # is scheduled to be that in Denver next season... However, the cap # is figured by adding the scheduled salary with the signing bonus divided by contract years. So, if the signing bonus was $24 over the six year contract, then $4 million of that $14 million wouldn't transfer to Houston in a trade.
I'm going off what Rotoworld says and they are usually pretty good.

7/22/2010: Signed a six-year, $61.5 million contract. The deal contains $43.156 million guaranteed, including a $3 million signing bonus and Dumervil's first, second, and third years' base salaries. 2011-2012: $14 million, 2013: $12 million, 2014: $10 million, 2015: $8,193,335, 2016: Free Agent
Very small signing bonus, lots of guaranteed salary including salaries of $14 mil for the next two seasons.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
At the risk of asserting certainty despite a total lack of information: There is no way Dumervil's salary is $14 million next year.
From Rotoworld's Dumervil page:

7/22/2010: Signed a six-year, $61.5 million contract. The deal contains $43.156 million guaranteed, including a $3 million signing bonus and Dumervil's first, second, and third years' base salaries. 2011-2012: $14 million, 2013: $12 million, 2014: $10 million, 2015: $8,193,335, 2016: Free Agent
Dumervil is making $14 million this year and next year. Guaranteed. Just insane.
 

JimBaker488

Waterboy
If I was going to use Mario as trade bait, I'd go after an established, veteran,
CB in his prime as my primary target. After all one of the advantages of
a 3-4 over a 4-3 is guys Elvis are less difficult to find than guys like Mario.
But if I was going to make the proposed trade in this thread, I'd need some serious boot with Elvis to make the deal since our guy is just more valuable.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
If Denver was willing to give up Elvis and a 2011 2nd plus a 2012 2nd.

I would do that trade in a second.

MW is injury prone too.
 
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b0ng

Bad Hombre
If Denver was willing to give up Elvis and a 2011 2nd plus a 2011 2nd.

I would do that trade in a second.

MW is injury prone too.
That's not the worst deal in the world but Dumervilles contract is really ugly. I've liked Doom since he came into the league the same year as Mario and I've always thought he was underrated.

However, I'd rather just pay Mario his last year and see what he does and how easy he would be to re-sign than pay Doom $14mil to come off an injury. Also, Dylan Gwinn is terrible as is the whole 10am - 12pm block on all 3 radio stations. I don't listen to 97.5 enough I'm sure.
 

Texecutioner

Hall of Fame
Man, it kills me to continue to see people act like Mario Williams is some guy that can't be parted with by some fans here. We had one of the worst pass rushes in the league before Mario got here and we still have one of the worst pass rushes in the league since he's been here. Mario is a good DE, but he is not a game changer on defense.

If Dumberville wasn't coming off a major injury this trade would be a no brainer. His salary wouldn't bother me that much at all really, but his injury was pretty bad. Mario is constantly having nagging injuries though or always has some sort of problem going on with him. Either way, he's nowhere near the player people try and act like he is around here and he's had a lack of motivation type of problem since college and I can't stand players like that especially on the Dline where you have to have a high motor. I doubt this has anything to it though. Mario is one of those guys that Bob sees as an investment because of his hype and his stature. Mario could put up 4 sacks and he'd still be looked at as a beast around here. Bob cares about money and Mario has the fan support because he was a #1 draft pick and hasn't been arrested. He's going nowhere.

If Mario doesn't excell in this 3-4 defense or gets injured this season his stock won't be worth jack after this season compared to what it is now though. I'd love to see him traded while the value is still pretty high. It's not like it would hurt the worst defense in the league either way.
 

HOU-TEX

Ah, Football!
Like I-Cak said already, Mario is a more complete player than Dumerville ans it's not really a close comparison. Is Mario going to fit in our 3-4? Only time will tell, but if we're going to discuss imaginary trades for him we should at least make them good ones.

And who the hell is Mighty Quin? He should be fired just for the queer nickname alone.
 

2slik4u

Veteran
Man, it kills me to continue to see people act like Mario Williams is some guy that can't be parted with by some fans here. We had one of the worst pass rushes in the league before Mario got here and we still have one of the worst pass rushes in the league since he's been here. Mario is a good DE, but he is not a game changer on defense.

If Dumberville wasn't coming off a major injury this trade would be a no brainer. His salary wouldn't bother me that much at all really, but his injury was pretty bad. Mario is constantly having nagging injuries though or always has some sort of problem going on with him. Either way, he's nowhere near the player people try and act like he is around here and he's had a lack of motivation type of problem since college and I can't stand players like that especially on the Dline where you have to have a high motor. I doubt this has anything to it though. Mario is one of those guys that Bob sees as an investment because of his hype and his stature. Mario could put up 4 sacks and he'd still be looked at as a beast around here. Bob cares about money and Mario has the fan support because he was a #1 draft pick and hasn't been arrested. He's going nowhere.

If Mario doesn't excell in this 3-4 defense or gets injured this season his stock won't be worth jack after this season compared to what it is now though. I'd love to see him traded while the value is still pretty high. It's not like it would hurt the worst defense in the league either way.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
Like I-Cak said already, Mario is a more complete player than Dumerville ans it's not really a close comparison. Is Mario going to fit in our 3-4? Only time will tell, but if we're going to discuss imaginary trades for him we should at least make them good ones.

And who the hell is Mighty Quin? He should be fired just for the queer nickname alone.
Whether Mario succeeds in the 3-4 will be entirely dependent upon his motivation and his health. I don't want to hear fans excusing poor play on Mario's part with the "wrong defensive scheme for him". He's a physical freak. Essentially, he will be playing similarly to LDE, which I think was his stronger side.

Mario is a FA after this season, so it will be interesting to see how everything unfolds. I tell you what, though. At this point, there is no way I would want the organization to extend him 6 years with a monster deal!
 

BattleRed56

Practice Squad
Mario will be the guy we all want him to be!!! ie..DeMarcus Ware and Shaun Merriman. Wade wil work with Mario.....or not!
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
If Denver was willing to give up Elvis and a 2011 2nd plus a 2011 2nd.

I would do that trade in a second.

MW is injury prone too.
My guess is that the only way this trade goes down, it's because Wade and the Texans know something about Mario's injury status that we don't know...............and neither does Denver.
 

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
I think a more likely trade would be to give up the Texans 11th pick and a 3rd or 4th for Dumerville. We need a OLB anyways, so why not get a proven guy with a big contract instead of a rookie we hope does well?
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
We need a OLB anyways, so why not get a proven guy with a big contract instead of a rookie we hope does well?
That contract is not big. It's obscene. It will be an albatross around the neck of that franchise.

The are defenders I would trade for Mario. DeMarcus Ware. Haloti Ngota. Darrelle Revis. Elvis Dumervil is not one of those defenders.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Mario will be the guy we all want him to be!!! ie..DeMarcus Ware and Shaun Merriman. Wade wil work with Mario.....or not!
Most of us, and Wade (judging by what he's said) don't see Mario as an OLB like Merriman, or Ware.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
My guess is that the only way this trade goes down, it's because Wade and the Texans know something about Mario's injury status that we don't know...............and neither does Denver.
This won't go down, because this is not a trade proposal. It's not on the table, Denver is not talking to Houston. Houston is not talking to Denver.

This is just a figment of some nobody's imagination.
 

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
What does it mean to play LDE?

What's the difference between LDE & RDE?

Why is he stronger on the Left side?
Normally, the LDE is covered by a tackle and a TE. He almost never plays the 9 technique (which is lining up very wide, even wide of the TE).
 

Rey

Guest
Normally, the LDE is covered by a tackle and a TE. He almost never plays the 9 technique (which is lining up very wide, even wide of the TE).
I agree that Mario played better on the strong side of the formation..He seems to thrive when he's consistently engaging blockers...

Put him in space and he looks a little less comfortable...
 

EllisUnit

Vote RED!!!
Care to expound on this a bit? I don't quite understand your reasoning
i'm saying that Williams is a fast powerful Defensive End and to get rid of such a play maker would be foolish, especially to bring in a guy who recently came off of a bad injury.
 
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