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texansdrummer

texansdrummer

Veteran
An interesting stat that none other than Jerry Jones brought up....is that there has NEVER been a coach that took two teams to the SB.

As a Texans fan.....do you really want to take your chances vs. the odds? Haven't we seen enough about how that's bound to play out?

Do you still want Cowher? Gruden? Johnson? (greatly assuming ANY of them would be interested).

If you're McNair (or Kubiak.... assuming he's around after next week.), do you choose to blow up one of the leading offenses in the league and start from scratch, on both sides.....or do you acknowledge that no matter how good of an offense you have, they can't be expected to score 30+ points a game in order to have a chance to win?

I'm merely presenting this for rational discusion......personally, I think that the offense is capable of anything that should be reasonably necessary of a playoff-caliber team.

Our defense blows......but I'm hesitant to give up the offense to correct this. I hope Kubes and RS get this......if not, well, they need to ga ASAP.

I don't want to start from scratch again.......despite an enormous amount of negative things that have gone down, it could be worse.

Consult the facts/history.....and be careful what you wish for.
 
texansdrummer said:
An interesting stat that none other than Jerry Jones brought up....is that there has NEVER been a coach that took two teams to the SB.

As a Texans fan.....do you really want to take your chances vs. the odds? Haven't we seen enough about how that's bound to play out?

Do you still want Cowher? Gruden? Johnson? (greatly assuming ANY of them would be interested).

If you're McNair (or Kubiak.... assuming he's around after next week.), do you choose to blow up one of the leading offenses in the league and start from scratch, on both sides.....or do you acknowledge that no matter how good of an offense you have, they can't be expected to score 30+ points a game in order to have a chance to win?
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Wins.
 
i'll say this..there's no way in hell JJ gets outta that chair to come here.H said last year he likes that gig to much.
 
1) Yes, I'm willing to take a chance on another coach - even one that has already won a Super Bowl.

2) Why do people assume that our offense has to be totally blown up? We still have some good pieces on offense, including guys named Andre Johnson, Arian Foster and Matt Schaub. These guys still have gas left in the tank. Arian's career is just taking off.

Sorry, but if the Atlanta Falcons can grind out TWELVE WINS just a couple of years after being a terrible team and hiring a new coach, we can work towards the same thing with a new staff.
 
So ur saying that because no coach has won a super bowl with 2 diff teams then that makes hiring a gruden or cow her somehow "against the odds"? I wonder how many SB winning head coaches have switched teams after their win? Can't be more than 10. So ur implying that If we play the odds that at least 1 in 10 head coaches in the NFL win a super bowl thus making it risky for us to hire a SB winner? Your argument is terribly flawed as is Jerral Jones'
 
texansdrummer said:
Yeah, I looked it up....You are 100% correct. It WAS JJ that said it.....my bad for taking that with any grain of salt.

Are you saying a third is not more unlikely? LOL......

I stand corrected......but still - it's very rare.

The point remains the same.....although somewhat diluted.

Continue on............
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No biggie. Getting a new HC with experience that can get us into the playoffs will suit me just fine. I do want a Super Bowl win, that's for sure. Just because no one has done it yet with two different teams doesn't mean that no one ever will.
 
So you don't want to change Kubiak because of the offense and how good it is?(different topic for a different thread but I digress) Sorry, imo, that is not a good enough reason to keep Kubiak around for a 6th year. Yes, perhaps there would be a dropoff from an offensive standpoint if a new guy came in. How much? I'm not sure. Maybe there isnt one. We just dont know but again, that is not a good enough reason imo to keep Kubiak around for another year.

And this "I don't want to start from scratch again", I have a hard time understanding that when people say that. Start from scratch? Why do we have to start from scratch? Other teams have changed coaches and had success for the most part within the first 3 years. Why do we have to press the reset button? This doesnt need to be blown up, not to me anyways.
 
LMAO!! You guys are thinking superbowl? Im getting that Cours light commercial stuck in my head reading this thread. Replace playoffs with superbowl? Superbowl? Superbowl?
Superbowl is the goal at the end of the day but, How about we get to the playoffs first. I'll take any coach that can get us into the playoffs consistently, afc championship games, etc etc. To be thinking superbowl with a 5-10 record is ridicoulous.
 
I think the Texans need to get to the playoffs before we start worrying about Super Bowl wins. Right now I would take Gruden as you can see with my avatar, but heck anyone, even Cowher will do!
 
In other words I am supremely confident that the odds against a previous super bowl winning coach winning another with a different team are not lower than the odds of any other potential head coach winning a SB. There just haven't been enough of them. If cow her came here and won a SB then the first groups odds would in increase from 0% to well over 10%. Then find out the total coaches in NFL history and divide by the # that have won it all. Guarantee you that # is minuscule.
 
Grforces said:
LMAO!! You guys are thinking superbowl? Im getting that Cours light commercial stuck in my head reading this thread. Replace playoffs with superbowl? Superbowl? Superbowl?
Superbowl is the goal at the end of the day but, How about we get to the playoffs first. I'll take any coach that can get us into the playoffs consistently, afc championship games, etc etc. To be thinking superbowl with a 5-10 record is ridicoulous.
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There are legions of fans here who expect nothing less....and arguably, instantly.

I'm not willing to put myself in that category, per se, but if it happened, I wouldn't pose any opposition.

I'm also a realist.

I just posted this in order to invoke a discussion. I don't really care if you agree or disagree as long as the discussion is based upon basic reason.
 
Yesterday said:
In other words I am supremely confident that the odds against a previous super bowl winning coach winning another with a different team are not lower than the odds of any other potential head coach winning a SB. There just haven't been enough of them. If cow her came here and won a SB then the first groups odds would in increase from 0% to well over 10%. Then find out the total coaches in NFL history and divide by the # that have won it all. Guarantee you that # is minuscule.
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How "lucky" vs. various odds do you think we've been this season? Being ahead with time left, etc. what not.

Are dismissing the "unlucky" part of our past in favor of assuming that we can be "lucky" in the future?

Who is your horseshoe/lucky charm?
 
At the start of every football season the goal is to win the Super Bowl. Why compete if that isn't the goal? I know the Texans are a ways away from that, but why can't it be the goal? It should be the goal.

As to no coach ever winning a SB with two different teams, no one ever climbed Mt. Everst until someone did. No one ever went to the moon until someone did. There's always a first time for everything.
 
Before last season no coach had ever won a Super Bowl with the New Orleans Saints. What does that tell you? There is a first time for everything.

Not hiring a coach that has previously won a SB because of that stat is pretty absurd. All that tells me is that someone is due.
 
texansdrummer said:
How "lucky" vs. various odds do you think we've been this season? Being ahead with time left, etc. what not.

Are dismissing the "unlucky" part of our past in favor of assuming that we can be "lucky" in the future?

Who is your horseshoe/lucky charm?
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Bill Cowher is my lucky charm. We haven't just been unlucky in missing the playoffs-we've made bad decisions.
 
texansdrummer said:
There are legions of fans here who expect nothing less....and arguably, instantly.

I'm not willing to put myself in that category, per se, but if it happened, I wouldn't pose any opposition.

I'm also a realist.

I just posted this in order to invoke a discussion. I don't really care if you agree or disagree as long as the discussion is based upon basic reason.
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Din't mean to dog your premise or belittle someones arguement. Sure superbowl is the goal, yes that would be great. But, as it stands right now, most of our team haven't even been to the playoffs. When is the last time the oilers made it to the playoffs? This town hasen't seen their football team in the playoffs for too long of a time.
To win the Superbowl you have to make it to the playoffs. So while its been years and still have not made it there, just seems a little silly to be talking about the superbowl, when we can't even look respectable on a monday night game. (to flustered, shakey in the spotlight)
Like I said before, i'll take any coach that can get us to the playoffs consistanly, and gets our team that veteran status they need to be successful enough to win a Superbowl.
 
Y
Grforces said:
LMAO!! You guys are thinking superbowl? Im getting that Cours light commercial stuck in my head reading this thread. Replace playoffs with superbowl? Superbowl? Superbowl?
Superbowl is the goal at the end of the day but, How about we get to the playoffs first. I'll take any coach that can get us into the playoffs consistently, afc championship games, etc etc. To be thinking superbowl with a 5-10 record is ridicoulous.
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Wait!!!



You don't even know how to spell Coor's??? You're either from Texas or your an idjit! :kitten:
 
Yesterday said:
In other words I am supremely confident that the odds against a previous super bowl winning coach winning another with a different team are not lower than the odds of any other potential head coach winning a SB. There just haven't been enough of them. If cow her came here and won a SB then the first groups odds would in increase from 0% to well over 10%. Then find out the total coaches in NFL history and divide by the # that have won it all. Guarantee you that # is minuscule.
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:confused:


Aren't all cows female?
 
Thorn said:
At the start of every football season the goal is to win the Super Bowl. Why compete if that isn't the goal? I know the Texans are a ways away from that, but why can't it be the goal? It should be the goal.

As to no coach ever winning a SB with two different teams, no one ever climbed Mt. Everst until someone did. No one ever went to the moon until someone did. There's always a first time for everything.
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I agree with that....I don't think it should be "prohibitive" at all......just wanted to point out the facts to the "win a SB now/hire ______ because he's won a SB" crowd.

In reality.....we are in between. We don't have a 1-2 year "fire starter" that rolls things over in an instant. We don't have a former SB coach that "fails" every other place he goes. We don't have any number of previously "successful" coaches that have also failed in other situations.

My point is this.......and you can spin it however you like. Coaches can/may be ultra-successful in some situations, and they can be equally disastrous in others. It can happen to the same guy.......it comes down to the situation that he has to deal with. Sometimes that can be his fault....sometimes, it's just a plain mismatch. In this case...I'd personally rather see the defensive and special teams coaches fired and start from scratch there, vs. needlessly dismantling our offense.

Would it be better to lose games next season 12-6 instead 0f 24-23?
 
texansdrummer said:
Would it be better to lose games next season 12-6 instead 0f 24-23?
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The point really is change. Kubiak has shown he is going no where fast with the Texans, and we need change. Bringing in a veteran coach the first time didn't work, bringing in a brand new HC this time around didn't work either. So, what next?
 
Thorn said:
Only the female ones. The cows that are not female we don't talk about much.
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If they ain't female, they ain't a cow!



Unless they are a hobie-esque wannabe cow! Bullette? Steeria?
 
Thorn said:
The point really is change. Kubiak has shown he is going no where fast with the Texans, and we need change. Bringing in a veteran coach the first time didn't work, bringing in a brand new HC this time around didn't work either. So, what next?
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The offense has (at least, numerically) increased statistically each year. I'd demand a clearing out of the defensive and special teams staff with a demand to hire (as good as may be available.....there's rarely a desirable reason for a coach to be "available, right?)proven coaches in the other areas. I'd stipulate that this should not be Kubes buddies, etc. Hire your "new/forced" staff of choice, and make the playoffs or bye bye.

Yeah, yeah......I understand that an ENORMOUS amount of people will say, "just fire them all now", etc. I'm not gonna claim that Kubes is a genius or anything just yet......but we've got a really good offense.

How many years was it before Landry won a SB? Cowher?
 
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Lucky said:
/thread


This should be Gary Kubiak's coaching epitaph.
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Hey man......regardless of whether you like it or not, we've got one of the best offenses in the NFL.

That's a FACT....and not my opinion.

Our offense shouldn't be required to score 30+ points a game in order to win.

As a result of demostrable "facts", I'll go out on a limb and say that that the defensive and special teams coaches have got to go, and their replacements better make the playoffs next year or the entire house should be cleared.

Arbitrarily giving up one of the best offenses in the entire NFL because our defense ans ST suck is retarded.

I guess if you are a businessman and you've got an amazing product (offense), and have terrible marketing, you'd fire the ENTIRE staff vs. what is tangibly really making your success difficult?

That's just not intelligent....yeah, I get the arguments of "this coach succeeded in this amount of time, etc.". That has a great deal to do with circumstance, and you've got no guarantees that things will improve with someone else. Most anyone else you can hire has been fired from another job. I'll say it again,, it's about the circumstance. We could get a new coach.......great. Will the defense be better? How could it NOT be.......would the offense be more productive? highly unlikely,

Like I said before.....would you prefer to lose a game 24-23 0r 12-6?


I'd prefer a new DC (and staff) as well as a new ST coach (and staff). Let's fix what's broken.
 
Marciano has given us a lot of good years and I really don't see the point of firing him. I don't think we'd even be talking about it if he wasn't stuck with Slaton as a KR.

Otherwise, all I can say is fire the whole D staff.
 
And there are hundreds of coaches that never won a Super Bowl in their first head coaching stops and also never won one in their second head coaching stops.


This is one of the most useless stats I have ever heard. Never has a guy taken two teams to SB wins, so we don't want to hire someone that has already won one? As if the fact that he has won one is somehow going to be a detriment to us winning one.

Ridiculous.
 
Thorn said:
The point really is change. Kubiak has shown he is going no where fast with the Texans, and we need change. Bringing in a veteran coach the first time didn't work, bringing in a brand new HC this time around didn't work either. So, what next?
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Bringing in a good coach? :kitten:

And while we are at it, a better GM, and much better scouts. :strangle:
 
texansdrummer said:
Hey man......regardless of whether you like it or not, we've got one of the best offenses in the NFL.

That's a FACT....and not my opinion.

Our offense shouldn't be required to score 30+ points a game in order to win.

As a result of demostrable "facts", I'll go out on a limb and say that that the defensive and special teams coaches have got to go, and their replacements better make the playoffs next year or the entire house should be cleared.

Arbitrarily giving up one of the best offenses in the entire NFL because our defense ans ST suck is retarded.

I guess if you are a businessman and you've got an amazing product (offense), and have terrible marketing, you'd fire the ENTIRE staff vs. what is tangibly really making your success difficult?

That's just not intelligent....yeah, I get the arguments of "this coach succeeded in this amount of time, etc.". That has a great deal to do with circumstance, and you've got no guarantees that things will improve with someone else. Most anyone else you can hire has been fired from another job. I'll say it again,, it's about the circumstance. We could get a new coach.......great. Will the defense be better? How could it NOT be.......would the offense be more productive? highly unlikely,

Like I said before.....would you prefer to lose a game 24-23 0r 12-6?


I'd prefer a new DC (and staff) as well as a new ST coach (and staff). Let's fix what's broken.
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No, it's not. We've got a statisticaly great offense that can't produce consistently. Being able to run up and down the field when you're very far behind doesn't mean you have a great offense. Being able to only play half a game of football at a time means you have a problem on offense. Thinking otherwise due to a collection of gaudy statistics is absurd.

That our team can fall behind like they do and then come back to tie or seize the lead just tells me that they have enough talent to be a great offense, not that they are a great offense.

Great offenses finish comebacks. Great offenses don't need to do it every single week though. Don't let our glaring problems on defense get in the way of seeing that we also have issues on offense. We have great tools to work with in fixing those issues on that side of the ball but the issues are there.
 
Thorn said:
No head coach has ever WON Super Bowls with two different teams, but several have taken different teams to the Super Bowl.
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Hookem Horns said:
Before last season no coach had ever won a Super Bowl with the New Orleans Saints. What does that tell you? There is a first time for everything.

Not hiring a coach that has previously won a SB because of that stat is pretty absurd. All that tells me is that someone is due.
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Y'all saved me a lot of typing. The hand-wringing leaps in logic that are being taken to support a loser head coach are nothing short of sad.

Four head coaches have already been fired for not producing success, and most likely there will be more after the season ends. If the Texans decide to continue with the pathetic mentality of running a franchise out of fear, they are going against the grain of most NFL teams that desire wins over mediocre stability.

I'm tired of rooting for a losing franchise. That is the face of this team right now: LOSERS.

Note to the Houston Texans: Way to represent this city, chumps. :loser
 
Hey guys where is Tony Dungy's name and why are you guys not mentioning him this guy dominated the division and you don't have to totally trash the defense even the type of players will be different the defensive scheme to a more Cover 2 focus which has a focus on speed. This guy has a super bowl under his belt too!!!!
 
PHAROAH said:
Hey guys where is Tony Dungy's name and why are you guys not mentioning him this guy dominated the division and you don't have to totally trash the defense even the type of players will be different the defensive scheme to a more Cover 2 focus which has a focus on speed. This guy has a super bowl under his belt too!!!!
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Because he has said he is not interested in coaching.
 
PHAROAH said:
Hey guys where is Tony Dungy's name and why are you guys not mentioning him this guy dominated the division and you don't have to totally trash the defense even the type of players will be different the defensive scheme to a more Cover 2 focus which has a focus on speed. This guy has a super bowl under his belt too!!!!
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Peyton Manning dominated the division.
 
NO NFL head coach has ever won a Super Bowl with one team, and then gone on to win one with another team. Never ever in the history of the league. Not Lombardi, not Parcells, not Holmgren, not Seifert, not Reeves, not Jimmy Johnson.

All you Gruden and Cowher lovers remember that. Also remember that Gruden and Cowher each only got their teams to ONE Super Bowl.
 
DerekLee1 said:
NO NFL head coach has ever won a Super Bowl with one team, and then gone on to win one with another team. Never ever in the history of the league. Not Lombardi, not Parcells, not Holmgren, not Seifert, not Reeves, not Jimmy Johnson.

All you Gruden and Cowher lovers remember that. Also remember that Gruden and Cowher each only got their teams to ONE Super Bowl.
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What's you point here? Are you saying we're better off staying the course? Hiring another first-time coach? Hire any HC that hasn't won a SB?
 
Dishman said:
What's you point here? Are you saying we're better off staying the course? Hiring another first-time coach? Hire any HC that hasn't won a SB?
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My point is not to stay the course by any means. I think Kubiak WILL be a successful playoff-bound HC, but it ain't gonna be here. The team doesn't believe in him anymore; that's obvious from post-game interviews. But you have to keep your options open beyond previous SB winning coaches. I want a proven playoff coach; not necessarily a SB winning coach. Bellichik had never been to a SB before he went to the Pats; but he HAD taken a couple of teams to the playoffs before.
 
DerekLee1 said:
My point is not to stay the course by any means. I think Kubiak WILL be a successful playoff-bound HC, but it ain't gonna be here. The team doesn't believe in him anymore; that's obvious from post-game interviews. But you have to keep your options open beyond previous SB winning coaches. I want a proven playoff coach; not necessarily a SB winning coach. Bellichik had never been to a SB before he went to the Pats; but he HAD taken a couple of teams to the playoffs before.
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and the title of this search should be:

'searching for great....... umm goodness'


:wadepalm:
 
Runner said:
Come to think of it, no individual head coach who has never won a Super Bowl has ever won a Super Bowl.

The Texans are screwed! It's statistically impossible for them to hire a coach who can win the Super Bowl.
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:francis:
 
Yesterday said:
Peyton Manning dominated the division.
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Really I can remember Payton Manning and the colts getting there asses kicked before Dungy became the head coach with a 3-13 season before he arrived and remember the team he put together in Tampa before he was ousted so give the man his credit and just say you don't want him as the head coach.
 
PHAROAH said:
Really I can remember Payton Manning and the colts getting there asses kicked before Dungy became the head coach with a 3-13 season before he arrived and remember the team he put together in Tampa before he was ousted so give the man his credit and just say you don't want him as the head coach.
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3-13 was Manning's rookie year and the first year for Mora. They then had back to back playoff seasons. One 6-10 season and Mora was fired.
 
There are only 12 coaches in NFL history that have 2 or more SB wins. I can't get too worked up over the fact that no one has done it with two different teams...
 
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