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Schaub has been a soldier tonight
- Thread starter Maddict5
- Start date
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
well he did the biz in regulation... shame about OT- had to get rid of it or wouldve been a safety. cant rly fault him for that. easy to say we shouldve ran it but we were torching them in the pass game... so i stand by my post
incredible heart and play bu the whole team in the second half and regulation
incredible heart and play bu the whole team in the second half and regulation
m5kwatts
Veteran
If anyone blames Schaub for this one they're dumb. He played his heart out and I'm so glad he's our franchise QB. This game was lost in the 1st quarter when the receivers and tight ends couldn't catch a pass. And the defense is what it is every game: awful. This team has a lot of things to fix and QB AINT one of them.
TexCanada
All Pro
Schaub was spectacular tonight. Imagine his stats if there wasn't so many damn drops.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
dropping back 50 something times...you're not going to win many games like that. Having said that, He should've tossed it away. no need to force it there. Oh well. Honestly we can't lose in either situation. If we win, we're still alive albeit barely. If we lose, hopefully we still stay on track to see changes. Win Win imo.
Texas T
Veteran
+rep this was exactly what I was thinking. He would have looked even better without all the dropped passes and the OD bounce for an Int.
He did a great job (minus the 1st quarter) and he kept us in the game at the end there.
I'm curious to know who was making the calls in OT. I think it was Kubs, only because it looked very different.
silvrhand
All Pro
Did you even watch the first half, not only were there dropped passes but Matt was missing people left and right, and couldn't even get the ball down the field 40 yards to a wide open andre johnson..
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
nobody said he was perfect. he did play an amazing second half and showed gret heart to bring us back into it as did the whole team. everybody made mistakes- matt, od, jj even andre but they redeemed themselves when it wouldve been alot easier to pack it in for the season
silvrhand
All Pro
who cares he still lost the game, noone has ever won anything on heart.. They put themselves in the hole all the time.. Yes we have more problems than Matt on this team but he's not all what we need to move forward unless we turn around and put up a 85 bears defense..
Showtime100
Got JJ?
Frankly I was amazed at the hate he got after last week on this board. It was like the negative attention had to go somewhere and suddenly Schaub was the guy. I, for one, would rather fry other fish than Schaub at this point, Schaub isn't even on the list.
worldlyman
Waterboy
Steve Young, with Matt Millen concurring, talked about Schaub having to "finish" and all that...but Schaub did his deal. 99 and 95 yard drives? Schaub threw the ball 60 plus times. Of course, one throw is going to be really bad...and that one bad throw literally cost them the ball game. Law of averages, man.
To have to play against a 21 point deficit...I think Schaub did about as great a job as any QB could do, in most cases.
Schaub was pretty masterful though. Just think when the defense finally stabilizes, in a positive way, in the coming seasons.
To have to play against a 21 point deficit...I think Schaub did about as great a job as any QB could do, in most cases.
Schaub was pretty masterful though. Just think when the defense finally stabilizes, in a positive way, in the coming seasons.
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
He did a ****ing amazing job bouncing back from a very lackluster first half performance.
m5kwatts
Veteran
He missed a couple throws but those drops were SO crucial. Daniels alone killed 2 drives. If those are catches this might've been a tied game at halftime. The fact that he threw it 62 times tells you all you need to know--the offensive gameplan was flawed yet again. Don't put this one on Schaub. If we had a competent defense and a more balanced offensive gameplan you wouldn't be blaming Schaub.
mattieuk
All Pro
The best thing, apart from seeing the two monster drives, was seeing him use his freaking legs to make a play. He isn't THAT slow!
The one in the first half I think it was where he could have easily made a first down, and hesitated, hesitated and then got a nice hit whilst going out of bounds was a complete blood boiler for me. If you've been given the option to run, then get those legs moving!
Schaub gets an 'A' for me today - pretty awesome, other than a couple of poor throws in the first.
The one in the first half I think it was where he could have easily made a first down, and hesitated, hesitated and then got a nice hit whilst going out of bounds was a complete blood boiler for me. If you've been given the option to run, then get those legs moving!
Schaub gets an 'A' for me today - pretty awesome, other than a couple of poor throws in the first.
Schaub also couldnt hit a reciever in stride tonight to save his life ....
The first play action pass to AJ .... shoulda been a TD but Schaub under threw the ball and hte defender was able to make up the ground and make a play on the ball. An incompletion rather than a TD.
The TD to AJ that got them on the board ... He underthrew the ball , AJ had to wait for the ball .... again.
How many times have we seen this so far this season ? Every single time he throws over 35 yards. Thats how often.
I wonder how much of Schaubs sucess is his ability and how much of it is Kubiaks offense and the playmakers around him (cept for all the drops tonight).
He needs to strengthen his arm .... somehow some way.
The first play action pass to AJ .... shoulda been a TD but Schaub under threw the ball and hte defender was able to make up the ground and make a play on the ball. An incompletion rather than a TD.
The TD to AJ that got them on the board ... He underthrew the ball , AJ had to wait for the ball .... again.
How many times have we seen this so far this season ? Every single time he throws over 35 yards. Thats how often.
I wonder how much of Schaubs sucess is his ability and how much of it is Kubiaks offense and the playmakers around him (cept for all the drops tonight).
He needs to strengthen his arm .... somehow some way.
I love Schaub, really do, i think he's in the 2nd tier of qb's in the league and would be in the 1st tier if he could piece together 4 solid quarters more often. He is the QB for our team, but could really use some more muscle on his throws as well. He takes alot of criticism simply because he is one of the faces of the franchise and in the position that generally takes the most amount of criticism.
The haters will be stuck with him for a while, but i personally love watching him play.
The haters will be stuck with him for a while, but i personally love watching him play.
silvrhand
All Pro
yah long as the crossing routes aren't deeper than 15 yards..
Chad Pennington version 2.0
panamamyers
Waterboy
Reminds me of how Shqauille O'neal used to always talk about his poor free throw shooting. He used to say he would make them when they counted at the end of the game. Problem is, if he hadn't missed 7 of them in the first 3 quarters, the ones at the end of the game wouldn't even matter.
Schaub put himself in the hole last night. He had some horrible passes. The first two drives of the night were completely on Schaub.
It's great that he did well the last quarter, but let's not act like it wasn't at least partly his fault that he needed to be so exceptional to catch back up. The first half interception was a killer. The underthrow to Andre on the first play of the game cost us 6.
You have to make the plays throughout the game that end up with a game being won.
Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers...they do just enough good things to win.
Schaub does just enough bad things to lose.
Schaub put himself in the hole last night. He had some horrible passes. The first two drives of the night were completely on Schaub.
It's great that he did well the last quarter, but let's not act like it wasn't at least partly his fault that he needed to be so exceptional to catch back up. The first half interception was a killer. The underthrow to Andre on the first play of the game cost us 6.
You have to make the plays throughout the game that end up with a game being won.
Brady, Manning, Brees, Rivers...they do just enough good things to win.
Schaub does just enough bad things to lose.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Schaub is not an elite QB, but he is much better than just above average. Out of all the starting QBs in the league, he'd be in the top 10 that's for sure. There are a lot of NFL teams that have a starting QB that's not even close to Schaub.
We've got far more serious problems to worry about than the QB position, unless you want to argue about the backup QBs.
We've got far more serious problems to worry about than the QB position, unless you want to argue about the backup QBs.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Is the glass half full or half empty? the bolded is a matter of perspective just b/c we are in fact losing these games. If we were winning these games & schaub had the exact same performances, folks would be talking about the 2 90+ yard drives he led the team down the field on that tied the game. Case & point: the AFC championship game in 2007. manning throws a pick 6 to put his team down 21-0. Of course noone talks about that in the sense of "losing plays" like you're talking about. They talk about the subsequent drives that he led them on to bring the team back.
& enough with trying to compare him vs the 4 guys clearly better than him b/c quite frankly noone is arguing that he's anywhere near those guys in terms of......well everything. The dispute is when guys like you come in & try to extrapolate every single bad play he makes into why he's not a good qb all the while ignoring the overall body of work. No player plays perfect on any given night yet for some reason, people expect this guy to just b/c his defense & special teams are trash. Give me a break.
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
I like Schaub but I'm realistic about his abilities. You really have to just break it down and see what you are looking for. The guy is Top 15. Not elite but pretty good.
Pros: Heart. Leader. When he has protection he is accurate. Has command of the offense.
Cons: Puts team in holes, makes monumental mistakes, weak arm, when pressured he gets happy feet and he isn't mobile.
Overall: Schaub will not win you a championship on his own. Schaub won't be an elite QB. Schaub can win a championship, however, if surrounded with the right pieces...strong O-line, RB and defense. He can manage a game and win games but has to cut back on the mistakes. On a team like the Ravens, Pittsburgh and some others that haveall the pieces in place he can win in the playoffs. On a team where he has to be the man you re going to get spectacular play mixed with crushing plays. I like the guy but if you force him to throw the ball 62 times you will have to take the bad with the good.
Pros: Heart. Leader. When he has protection he is accurate. Has command of the offense.
Cons: Puts team in holes, makes monumental mistakes, weak arm, when pressured he gets happy feet and he isn't mobile.
Overall: Schaub will not win you a championship on his own. Schaub won't be an elite QB. Schaub can win a championship, however, if surrounded with the right pieces...strong O-line, RB and defense. He can manage a game and win games but has to cut back on the mistakes. On a team like the Ravens, Pittsburgh and some others that haveall the pieces in place he can win in the playoffs. On a team where he has to be the man you re going to get spectacular play mixed with crushing plays. I like the guy but if you force him to throw the ball 62 times you will have to take the bad with the good.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Blame is a big word and I don't "blame" Schaub for this. I don't think it's dumb however to point out the fact that he has obvious limitations and that those limitations hurt us even as the positives in his game help.
Schaub lacks the arm strength needed to take the shots deep down the field that this coaching staff want. He underthrows Andre Johnson week after week and as a result we leave points on the field and kill drives. That's an absolute fact.
Now, does it mean that Schaub isn't a good QB? No. Kenny Stabler was a good QB without a canon for an arm but you didn't have him throwing bombs down the field every drive. I think it's valid to ask whether or not the coaches have the man for the job they want to do.
Schaub makes poor decisions under pressure. He is good for a stupid interception almost every week and he'll toss a couple of pick-sixes a year to cost you wins. I am reminded of Gary Kubiak yelling at David Carr. I think it went something along the lines of "You've been a starting QB for 4 years and you still throw that pass?" Matt Schaub has been starting for us for going on four years now and he still makes bad decisions when pressured. It hurts us clearly. We need exceptional protection and an excellent running game to get the most out of Schaub. We have one of those but don't use it nearly often enough.
Last night why were we flinging the ball around down by our own goal line in OT? The overtime period lasts 15 minutes. There's no need to be playing like we're pressed for time when we have that much clock and Arian Foster/Derrick Ward in our backfield. Run the ball, get some breathing room.
Again, this is a criticism of a Schaub "issue" but it's also a question about how our coaches use the tools they've assembled. You know he does this when pressured so why are you again forgetting that you have the leagues leading rusher in your backfield?
Schaub is relatively immobile but the Texans roll him out successfully all the time and he appears to be pretty mobile there. Give him 5-6 yards to the first down marker though and he vapor locks and skips the ball off the ground at the feet of a reciever. That happens all the time and it's really a problem. I know the man's fragile (which is also a problem) but he's got to keep the drive alive with his legs in situations where he can get the first down. Those spastic throws into the dirt at Kevin Walters feet aren't getting it done.
Look, he's far from our worst problem but he's got real issues. Without Andre Johnson he'd look pretty damn ordinary to most of us. He does have AJ though and he's good enough to win with if you don't ask him to carry the team BUT that seems to be exactly what our coaching staff insists on doing. They want him to do things that his stengths don't match up to a lot of the time and to borrow Gary's favorite expression "that's on them" not on Schaub.
The one area where he really falls short is the arm strength thing. I'm so tired of seeing Andre Johnson slow to a walk to keep from overrunning the ball. We complained that Carr couldn't hit a moving target and rightfully so but Schaub has an equally vexing problem with the deep ball and it's maddening to watch.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
His arm is not the problem. It's the timing of the throws. There have been great QBs with arm strength just like Schaub who can hit a receiver for the deep ball in stride (Steve Young, for example). JaMarcus Russel could throw the ball 60 yards while laying on his ass. Having the greatest arm strength isn't everything.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Steve Young's arm strength and Matt Schaub's are not "just like". Young had a much better arm than Schaub does.
It's a problem that nobody has to make a case over. It's on display week in and week out. It's something that can be worked around though. We just don't try to do that.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Matt Schaub needs to work on his timing more than anything. He doesn't have that good of an anticipation of when his receiver will be open or not. Timing. Having a better arm would help, but I think timing is his real problem.
TexansBlood
The CUSH!
Yea he was a soldier the second half like he's been all season long but WTF with the 1st half?
Same shxt, different game.
Same shxt, different game.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I think last night was the first game this season that I can say the defense was not totally at fault. All 3 phases of our team's at fault for this one. The defense had several brain farts, primarily in the first half. The offense did absolutely nothing to help them. Our special teams were ridiculous all night. Poor field position, 103 yard return and Rackers bouncing one in the endzone from 52.
Lastly, we have a full 15 minutes of overtime play. We can run the ball when we're backed up inside the ten. Plenty of time to calm down and take what their D was giving you.
Lastly, we have a full 15 minutes of overtime play. We can run the ball when we're backed up inside the ten. Plenty of time to calm down and take what their D was giving you.
Kubiak couldn't escape the two minute drill. He was his own worst enemy last night :kubepalm:
The thing is, the run would have been absolutely perfect because that Ravens defense was dead tired.
Schaub may never be a Brees or a Brady, but he has his strengths that competent play calling could feed into.
Schaub is definitely not our main problem or even in the top 5 of problems. He needs someone to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses which this coaching staff appears to be unwilling to do. They want to mold Schaub into what they think he should be rather than taking what he is, the talents he has and using those to the team's advantage.
Also, someone needs to find a way to get Schaub over his first half jitters or whatever it is that screws him up at the beginning of games. I know there is a coach out there that can do that.
Schaub is definitely not our main problem or even in the top 5 of problems. He needs someone to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses which this coaching staff appears to be unwilling to do. They want to mold Schaub into what they think he should be rather than taking what he is, the talents he has and using those to the team's advantage.
Also, someone needs to find a way to get Schaub over his first half jitters or whatever it is that screws him up at the beginning of games. I know there is a coach out there that can do that.
Guys with strong arms tend to have better "timing" because they aren't worried about a defender changing directions and making a play on the ball.
Matt generally waits for his receivers to get wide open because he doesn't have the arm to stick the ball into tight spaces on a consistent basis.
If he had more confidence in his arm and his ability to put it on a line to the receiver I think you'd see some better throws from him. I think he'd be more inclined to zip a pass right over the DB's shoulder or right over a LB's head or right past a defenders reach. He rarely does that because the way he throws the ball, if the receiver isn't wide open, both our guy and the defender tend to have a shot at it.
It's pretty hard to take advantage of a guy like Jacoby's speed when (a) he's dropping so many passes and (b) you don't have a QB that can consistently zip the ball to him on quick slants or right over a DB's head and in between the safety on fly routes.
Matt likes receivers with bigger bodies because they can shield defenders when he throws his balls or they can out jump people and go up and make a catch. A guy like Greg Jennings from GB would be pretty worthless here. He doesn't have the arm strength to take advantage of that kind of quickness and speed.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I think a lot of that is the "Nobody out there can catch anything I throw Blues". I'm so sick of watching Dreeson drop passes, Walters drop passes, and now Daniels drop passes early in games that I think I'll just pick up the next one at halftime instead.
I'm actually entirely cool with watching Jacoby drop passes. He's such a great athlete that he makes dropping a pass look good..... ok, not really. It sucks watching him drop passes too.
I think you could string together an early David Carr season worth of yards and points if you could just get back the drops lost by receivers and backs from balls that hit them in the hands this year.
worldlyman
Waterboy
Bingo.
"Arm strength" per se, IS over-rated.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/11033728
Dan Fouts was one of the great quarterbacks, a Hall of Famer, and he never had a cannon arm. It was about getting rid of the ball in time and being accurate.
Schaub is certainly accurate (he hit some good pitch and catches in stride, fired some good lasers)...but he probably has to get rid of it quicker.
And contrary to what someone said, Schaub doesn't have "issues." He does have weaknesses, certainly.
But for a QB with "issues", he sure found a way to gas an elite defense like that of the Ravens. I'm not so sure a solid QB like Joe Flacco himself could do that to his own defense.
Schaub was forced to throw 60 plus times! And of course, the law of averages dictate that he was bound to throw a really bad one...unfortunately the one bad one cost them the game literally.
And Schaub is "fragile?" He made it through an entire season last year...and it appears he will make it through this one.
Brady missed practically a whole season due to injury.
Tony Romo is on the shelf for significant time this season.
Vince Young is on the shelf for the rest of this season.
These are pretty solid guys physically.
And Schaub is "fragile?"
It's one thing to nitpick Schaub a bit...but geez.