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Foster's "Incompletion" Should Have Been a TD

GuerillaBlack

GuerillaBlack

Hall of Fame
On the play, the former NFL Vice President of Officiating, Mike Pereira, wrote on FoxSports.com:

“In my opinion, the ruling of touchdown should not have been reversed and this call seemed to change the complexion of the game…Foster was on his way to the ground and reached out with the ball in his right hand to make sure that he had broken the plane. This is the ’second act’ that the league has referred to in the past."
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http://www.texansgab.com/2010/11/09...d:+TexansGab+(Texans+Gab)&utm_content=Twitter

And here is a link to the story at FoxSports: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Austin-Collie-injury-hit-helmet-penalty-referee-Week-9-110710

So, there you go. I think almost everyone thought it should have been a TD. Bad call by the refs here. I really don't want that Mike guy reffing another game for us again...especially at Reliant. Anyone remember how loud and authoritative he was when he yelled "it stands" after the "interception" at the end of the game (I believe that was the play). I was wondering to myself why he was yelling, especially when the call is against the home team.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
http://www.texansgab.com/2010/11/09...d:+TexansGab+(Texans+Gab)&utm_content=Twitter

So, there you go. I think almost everyone thought it should have been a TD. Bad call by the refs here. I really don't want that Mike guy reffing another game for us again...especially at Reliant.
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There were a lot of bad calls in this game. The Foster play and the intentional grounding call was all wrong.

I have a friend who is a heavy gambler and he preaches to me how all games are rigged and I am starting to believe it.
 
When you compare the Foster non-TD to the one by Detroit a few weeks back ..... the rule was followed to the letter. :smiliepalm:
 
Corrosion said:
When you compare the Foster non-TD to the one by Detroit a few weeks back ..... the rule was followed to the letter. :smiliepalm:
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In Detroit, CJ was in the air when the ball hit his hands. He had control of the ball, but never had his feet down, or any part of his body down that would constitute possession.

When his butt hit the ground, so did the ball. He was in the act of making a catch when he went to the ground. The rule is he has to maintain possession through the fall to be ruled a catch.

I don't have a problem with that one being ruled an incomplete pass.

Foster caught the ball outside the end zone. He has possession, before he turns and extends into the end zone. Foster's play is more like Colt McCoys scrambling touchdown or Peyton Hillis' dive into the endzone where he loses the ball as it hits the pylon.

Either way we lost the game, my opinion of how they played still wouldn't have changed, I know we've got an offense that can score 30 on any given day so we've always got a chance to win. I was pleased that we had success early & was in the game for 60 minutes. Still peaved that KJ got burned twice, on simple go routes..... that is not supposed to happen, his physical play at the line was one of his strongest selling points. The defense didn't get that last stop that they needed...... doesn't matter how many points they actually gave up (23 by the defense, not 30). They needed a stop, didn't get it. Allowed a touchdown, not a field goal.

The outcome of the game would have been different. The fans (myself included) would have felt differently about the win. But fans of football which includes most of the people on this board would understand we still have work to do.
 
Bad call or the right call, what difference does it make? If the Texans were good enough to win the game they would have, bad call or not.
 
thunderkyss said:
Why do you think the intentional grounding call was wrong?
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Well maybe because none of the requirements of the rule were met. First to get called for intentional grounding you have to be under pressure. That's why spiking the ball doesn't count as intentional grounding. Schaub was not under pressure. Second there was a receiver in the area. You can watch any weekend and see QB's divot the ball 10 yards short of eligible receiver who is too well covered and not have a flag called when they are clearly under pressure and just trying to get rid of the ball.
 
That Foster "incompletion" was such B.S. I really think we would have won had they called it right. Wasn't it called a TD and they overturned it? I forget b/c I was so busy yelling.

As far as Schaub intentionally grounding the ball? I would say yes he intentionally threw it away... but that's not a penalty. Like many said, he wasn't pressured, he threw it past the line of scrimmage and the TE was in the vicinity. It was an obvious throw away but that doesn't mean it was a penalty. Bad call by the refs.
 
Malloy said:
I'm thinking it's either a incompletion, or a PI call against the guy covering Dreessen.
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See, I think it shouldn't be called intentional grounding, because Schaub wasn't under duress.

QBs throw the ball away in that same situation & it is never called.

It is intentional grounding if he's about to get hit, is wrapped up, or on his way down.
 
My high school head coach always told us, "you have to be better than the other team, it's fans, and the referees". "Referees are human and make mistakes and you must be good enough to overcome them". Face it, the Texans just aren't good enough, period!!!!!
 
TEXANRED said:
There were a lot of bad calls in this game. The Foster play and the intentional grounding call was all wrong.

I have a friend who is a heavy gambler and he preaches to me how all games are rigged and I am starting to believe it.
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OK, what kinds of things does he say???

I've been suspecting this about all 3 of our popular pro sports in this country for a long time.
 
TexansWest said:
My high school head coach always told us, "you have to be better than the other team, it's fans, and the referees". "Referees are human and make mistakes and you must be good enough to overcome them". Face it, the Texans just aren't good enough, period!!!!!
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Thats a bunch of BS. Teams in the league are so damn close to each other, that any little thing can swing a game in the other direction. A ref constantly screwing one team can and WILL change the outcome of a game.
 
The refs are becoming much too visible in the NFL for my tastes. It waters down the product and brings too much human fallibility into play as it regards the outcome of games. I'm steadily growing weary of this trend and find myself on the verge of total apathy as a result.
 
GuerillaBlack said:
http://www.texansgab.com/2010/11/09...d:+TexansGab+(Texans+Gab)&utm_content=Twitter

And here is a link to the story at FoxSports: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Austin-Collie-injury-hit-helmet-penalty-referee-Week-9-110710

So, there you go. I think almost everyone thought it should have been a TD. Bad call by the refs here. I really don't want that Mike guy reffing another game for us again...especially at Reliant. Anyone remember how loud and authoritative he was when he yelled "it stands" after the "interception" at the end of the game (I believe that was the play). I was wondering to myself why he was yelling, especially when the call is against the home team.
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Mike Pereira did a total flip-flop (yeah, there's a surprise :rolleyes: ) from his explanation on Calvin Johnson's incomplete.TD pass.
 
It should have been called a touchdown because Foster makes the catch and then tries to extend the ball across the line, but he didn't realize he was already in the end zone. That extension should have been ruled a 'football move' and then a 'fumble', but you can't fumble in the end zone because it was already a TD.
 
Here's what was different about Foster's non-TD to Calvin's non-TD, he caught the ball BEFORE he broke the plane. So when he caught it then stretched out to break the plane I thought it didnt matter what you did after that, once the plane is broken I assumed thats a touchdown
 
In the words of Thesbian David Hyde Pierce:

"Well Duh mother#cuker!"

Translation...we got Buttafuccoed....
 
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Yeah, that Intentional grounding was an eye opener.

NO WAY IN HELL Manning gets that flag. Dreesen was in the area, yeah, he put it out of reach but that's not the rule is it?

The Foster TD that wasn't, I thought it was a TD period but I knew it was going to be overturned before they said anything.

I'll say one thing, I saw too many Texans receivers looking for bail-out flags after incompletions. Players play. Referees referee.
 
The Cush said:
Here's what was different about Foster's non-TD to Calvin's non-TD, he caught the ball BEFORE he broke the plane.
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No what matters is whether you are going to the ground when you get the ball. If you are you must maintain possession thru contact with the ground endzone or not. If you are not going to the ground that doesn't apply.

Texan_Bill said:
Mike Pereira did a total flip-flop (yeah, there's a surprise :rolleyes: ) from his explanation on Calvin Johnson's incomplete.TD pass.
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There is no flip flop at all. Calvin Johnson was in the air and clearly never going to land on his feet when he got his hands on the ball. He was going to the ground. Foster was on his feet and but for being hit would have run it out. He was not going to the ground.
 
Corrosion said:
When you compare the Foster non-TD to the one by Detroit a few weeks back ..... the rule was followed to the letter. :smiliepalm:
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Disagree. The CJ TD, there was only one move: the catch, but he was rolling as he caught it, which complicated things. While I personally believe it was still a catch, it was different than Foster's. Foster caught the ball with two hands, secured it, made a second move to cross the plane by reaching his hand out with the ball. Once that ball crossed the plane, there was a catch, control, ball crosses the plane, play is dead once it crosses. Nothing after that mattered.
 
Double Barrel said:
The refs are becoming much too visible in the NFL for my tastes. It waters down the product and brings too much human fallibility into play as it regards the outcome of games. I'm steadily growing weary of this trend and find myself on the verge of total apathy as a result.
Click to expand...

At least we have the possibility of challenging, something sorely missing in Soccer...
 
GuerillaBlack said:
http://www.texansgab.com/2010/11/09...d:+TexansGab+(Texans+Gab)&utm_content=Twitter

And here is a link to the story at FoxSports: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Austin-Collie-injury-hit-helmet-penalty-referee-Week-9-110710

So, there you go. I think almost everyone thought it should have been a TD. Bad call by the refs here. I really don't want that Mike guy reffing another game for us again...especially at Reliant. Anyone remember how loud and authoritative he was when he yelled "it stands" after the "interception" at the end of the game (I believe that was the play). I was wondering to myself why he was yelling, especially when the call is against the home team.
Click to expand...

The one you are reffering to was the SD int at the end of the game. That came after Schaub was giving him an earful about the intentional grounding. I thought I was the only one that noticed his attitude on the call but I guess if we both can notice it, it's safe to assume he was glad to see us lose that day.
 
El Tejano said:
The one you are reffering to was the SD int at the end of the game. That came after Schaub was giving him an earful about the intentional grounding. I thought I was the only one that noticed his attitude on the call but I guess if we both can notice it, it's safe to assume he was glad to see us lose that day.
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Yeah, I noticed the emphatic "it stands" call and was a little pissed about the joy he got out of it.
 
Showtime100 said:
Yeah, I noticed the emphatic "it stands" call and was a little pissed about the joy he got out of it.
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And by the way he was doing the color commentating, I bet Dan Fouts and that ref had a cold one afterwards and were laughing and high fiving about it after the game.

Can we please not get guys to not call games when the team that is playing is the one they made hall of fame careers with?
 
The Cush said:
Here's what was different about Foster's non-TD to Calvin's non-TD, he caught the ball BEFORE he broke the plane. So when he caught it then stretched out to break the plane I thought it didnt matter what you did after that, once the plane is broken I assumed thats a touchdown
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I am with you. Foster caught the ball and broke the plane. That my friend is a touchdown.

"Touchdown: When any part of the ball, legally in possession of a player inbounds, breaks the plane of the opponent’s goal line, provided it is not a touchback."

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/definitions

:mariopalm: NFL!
 
El Tejano said:
The one you are reffering to was the SD int at the end of the game. That came after Schaub was giving him an earful about the intentional grounding. I thought I was the only one that noticed his attitude on the call but I guess if we both can notice it, it's safe to assume he was glad to see us lose that day.
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Not to mention he was the only ref that didn't even want to discuss overturning the intentional grounding call. It was like it was his way, or the highway. I hate that ref.
 
El Tejano said:
And by the way he was doing the color commentating, I bet Dan Fouts and that ref had a cold one afterwards and were laughing and high fiving about it after the game.

Can we please not get guys to not call games when the team that is playing is the one they made hall of fame careers with?
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I agree completely. The drooling by Fouts was getting my floor wet.
 
I think it was a touchdown.....I think the refs made a mistake on that one......who knows what would have happened if it was ruled a touchdown instead....
 
Super Mario said:
Now aint that some bullshit. I am in the camp that he caught the ball and had possession before crossing the goal line.
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Same here. Also, I can't believe that a league as dependent on replay as the NFL doesn't get their own cameras out there at predetermined strategic spots. Like, say, looking down the goal line.

Let the networks put theirs in where they want and use whatever shots they get from the play, but I would like to see some cameras out there strictly for the purpose of catching good angles. I don't know how much it would help, but it wouldn't hurt.
 
Corrosion said:
When you compare the Foster non-TD to the one by Detroit a few weeks back ..... the rule was followed to the letter. :smiliepalm:
Click to expand...

...and several from the last few years - where a WR catches the ball, takes 4 steps (3 in the endzone), falls down, does 4 barrel rolls and loses the ball after the 4th roll and they rule incomplete.

Dumbest rule ever.
 
DerekLee1 said:
Disagree. The CJ TD, there was only one move: the catch, but he was rolling as he caught it, which complicated things. While I personally believe it was still a catch, it was different than Foster's. Foster caught the ball with two hands, secured it, made a second move to cross the plane by reaching his hand out with the ball. Once that ball crossed the plane, there was a catch, control, ball crosses the plane, play is dead once it crosses. Nothing after that mattered.
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My thought at the time exactly.

Malloy said:
At least we have the possibility of challenging, something sorely missing in Soccer...
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Unfortunately, that's what GOT us in this one. The officials BLEW the replay call.

Showtime100 said:
Same here. Also, I can't believe that a league as dependent on replay as the NFL doesn't get their own cameras out there at predetermined strategic spots. Like, say, looking down the goal line.

Let the networks put theirs in where they want and use whatever shots they get from the play, but I would like to see some cameras out there strictly for the purpose of catching good angles. I don't know how much it would help, but it wouldn't hurt.
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I've thought this for years. Why should the Monday/Thursday/Sunday night games get more / better angles? Sure it makes for great TV, but every game needs to have the same angles to review FROM.
 
Showtime100 said:
Same here. Also, I can't believe that a league as dependent on replay as the NFL doesn't get their own cameras out there at predetermined strategic spots. Like, say, looking down the goal line.

Let the networks put theirs in where they want and use whatever shots they get from the play, but I would like to see some cameras out there strictly for the purpose of catching good angles. I don't know how much it would help, but it wouldn't hurt.
Click to expand...

Great idea. After all, it's only a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry we're talking about here.
 
Yankee_In_TX said:
...and several from the last few years - where a WR catches the ball, takes 4 steps (3 in the endzone), falls down, does 4 barrel rolls and loses the ball after the 4th roll and they rule incomplete.

Dumbest rule ever.
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Remember Jacoby Jones had a similar catch last year. I don't remember against who. He caught the ball, falling down into the endzone, & clearly didn't have the ball when the play was over.


But they gave it to us & we won the game.



It's Karma. Which is why even though I'm a sunshiner, Kubiak gets no credit for this one. We got screwed, deal with it. There will not be a "we would have won 11 games & in the play offs if we didn't get screwed on the Foster TD in the Chargers game" argument from me.

But I do believe some of this venom pointed Gary's way at the moment should be tempered. The game plan may not have been what we wanted, but it was good enough to win. The players played good enough to win. It just didn't happen.

It makes it tougher for Gary & the team going forward, but that's the NFL. He can either deal with it or not.
 
thunderkyss said:
Remember Jacoby Jones had a similar catch last year. I don't remember against who. He caught the ball, falling down into the endzone, & clearly didn't have the ball when the play was over.


But they gave it to us & we won the game.



It's Karma. Which is why even though I'm a sunshiner, Kubiak gets no credit for this one. We got screwed, deal with it. There will not be a "we would have won 11 games & in the play offs if we didn't get screwed on the Foster TD in the Chargers game" argument from me.

But I do believe some of this venom pointed Gary's way at the moment should be tempered. The game plan may not have been what we wanted, but it was good enough to win. The players played good enough to win. It just didn't happen.

It makes it tougher for Gary & the team going forward, but that's the NFL. He can either deal with it or not.
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Well, there will be from me, dang it. It's momentum. Even if we lose all the rest of our games, it could be because of that one horrible call by the refs!!!!!! :brickwall:


:jk:
 
Pantherstang84 said:
Did you really expect this tool to come out and say they got it wrong? Of course he was going to cover for his boys in the field.
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I sure did. It isn't like they've never come out after the fact and said they screwed up. Doesn't matter anyway. I feel the same whether they say it was a good or bad call. :smiliepalm:
 
thunderkyss said:
See, I think it shouldn't be called intentional grounding, because Schaub wasn't under duress.

QBs throw the ball away in that same situation & it is never called.

It is intentional grounding if he's about to get hit, is wrapped up, or on his way down.
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My problem with the play is what prevented Schaub from trying to make a play to Dreessen? Put the ball in a spot where only your guy could get it and make it look like you are actually trying to complete the pass. Don't let the refs make a judgment call.
 
thunderkyss said:
Remember Jacoby Jones had a similar catch last year. I don't remember against who. He caught the ball, falling down into the endzone, & clearly didn't have the ball when the play was over.

But they gave it to us & we won the game.

It's Karma.
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No it is the rule. Jacoby maintained possession through his first roll semi-got to his feet and hit then the ball came out. Pereira explained after that play that you only have to maintain possession through the ground once.
 
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After watching last night's Heap TD I really can't see how Foster's wasn't a TD. Heap didn't maintain possession any longer than Foster. I really hate the NFLs rules regarding TDs. I don't think that having the ball cross some imaginary plane should automatically give the team a TD. The David Carr play against the Jags is an example where we benefited, but he didn't keep possession of the ball and it shouldn't have been a TD.
 
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