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Put'n down the kool-aid

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I haven't seen today's games yet. But I've been watching the scores, & all I can say, is that I'm done with the kool-aid.

I'm not worried about the last 6 games. They are what they are, and worrying about them, griping about them, won't change a thing.

Kubiak saw what we saw. Frank Bush saw what we saw. The Texans didn't see it, but they dang sure should have felt it.

I'm not going to be among the naysayers, the pinksoapers, or the skyISfalling crowd. I'm just not going to spray sunshine on anything less than excellent game effort.

What changed my mind? The Buffalo Bills jumped to a 24-7 (?) lead over the Baltimore Ravens. The Oakland Raiders put the smack down on San Diego last week, & they're putting something nasty on Denver this week. Kansas City (who are just learning how to throw the ball) put 42 points on Jacksonville. Cleveland went to the Big Easy and made Greg Williams their "entertainment."

And the thing that burns the most... is that Tennessee's offense looks to be worlds better than ours.

With Tennessee winning, Nov 1 is a must win, just to keep pace. The Colts team has been decimated. They've had a week to prepare, we've had a week to prepare.

Losing is not an option.
 

ziggy29

Veteran
The problem is that it feels like 10-11 wins are needed in this division, made even tougher by the fact that it's one of the tougher divisions in the NFL (as always) and you have 6 games against that opposition.
 

imatexan

All Pro
I don't see how you can say a team that coming into this week was 27th in overall offense is better than ours.

I am not questioning that Tenn has a good offense because they do but to say that it they are better is way off IMO.

I will take Schaub/AJ/Foster over VY/CJ/Britt, although a case can be made for both sides.

Also after this week our wins are looking better on paper(yes I know that "on paper" does not count for anything but people still look a it)

Colts 4-2
Redskins 4-3
Raiders 3-4
Chiefs 4-2
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I don't see how you can say a team that coming into this week was 27th in overall offense is better than ours.

I am not questioning that Tenn has a good offense because they do but to say that it they are better is way off IMO.

I will take Schaub/AJ/Foster over VY/CJ/Britt, although a case can be made for both sides.

Also after this week our wins are looking better on paper(yes I know that "on paper" does not count for anything but people still look a it)

Colts 4-2
Redskins 4-3
Raiders 3-4
Chiefs 4-2
Cowboys..... Giants. We couldn't moved the ball. We went three & out, if we weren't turning it over.

Titans didn't have that issue.
 

awtysst

Draft Guru
Cowboys..... Giants. We couldn't moved the ball. We went three & out, if we weren't turning it over.

Titans didn't have that issue.
Doesn't matter. All that matters is we go out there and win games. The games of the past are in the past. We still have a shot to win the division. Going forward all we can do is control our play. If we go out and play hard we can pick up 10 wins. If we don't we wont.
 

Dutchrudder

Hall of Fame
I know this is heresy around here, but I think the Titans look like the best team in the division right now. The offense is a little above average, but their defense is doing very well at creating turnovers. I think we will be fighting them for the division title all the way till the end of the season. Nice thing is that we play the Jags in the last game, and they play the Colts :)
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Doesn't matter. All that matters is we go out there and win games. The games of the past are in the past. We still have a shot to win the division. Going forward all we can do is control our play. If we go out and play hard we can pick up 10 wins. If we don't we wont.
I agree. I didn't mean to go there. It is what it is, the only thing that matters is the next game.


(But I was asked a question, so I responded).

But my point, my main point is that there is no reason this team can't move the ball on any body. If it's unrealistic to score 70 points, then call me unrealistic. But if our offense has the ball 14 times in a game, I expect to score on 9 of them.

That is how you beat the Colts. Forget this ball control "theory." You need to be effecient on offense, touchdowns, not field goals, score on every possession.
 

stingray

Hall of Fame
It's all about the defense. If the defense can turn it around and just be respectable. They don't have to be dominant just respectable.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
But, you haven't actually watched the game. So, how can you possibly make this statement?

Maybe the koolaid's not all that should be put down?
I have no idea how many points the Titans offense put up today. I do know Kenny Brit (who?) just put up 220 on Philly. Judging by the way we played against Dallas & NYGiants, & how they played against the Giants & the Cowboys...... we'll get stymied again.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
It's all about the defense. If the defense can turn it around and just be respectable. They don't have to be dominant just respectable.
No.

The best offense in the world needs to stay on the field. The worst defense in the world needs to stay on the bench.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
Tennessee is seeing people sell the farm to stop Chris Johnson and it's creating opportunities for their passing game ....BUT keep this in mind. Kerry Collins does this every year or two. He comes out, replaces Vince, looks great, and carves up somebody. It can be somebody really good or somebody lousy but he puts it all together like he's going to finally be "The Answer" at QB and gets everybody excited and then he starts flinging interceptions and fumbling the ball and generally reverts back to the talented journeyman with major flaws that he's always been. You can put him on a team that helps cover those flaws up but he's still Kerry Collins and he still needs a bottle of Jim Beam. We've been feeding on this guy for years. We beat him as a Giant, we beat him as a Raider, and we've beat him as a Titan. Let him do his Brett Favre impersonation for now. He'll come back down to earth soon enough.

We'll be fine. It won't be pretty but we'll be fine.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Tennessee is seeing people sell the farm to stop Chris Johnson and it's creating opportunities for their passing game ....BUT keep this in mind. Kerry Collins does this every year or two. He comes out, replaces Vince, looks great, and carves up somebody.
I've been trying not to go here. But...

The Giants stack the box to stop CJ2k...... they score 29.

The Giants stack the box to stop AFoster..... we go 3 & out.


The Cowboys stack the box to stop CJ2k.... they score 34.

The Cowboys allow Foster to get 100.... we score 6 points.
 

fiasco west

All Pro
OK. Then you say...

But, you haven't actually watched the game. So, how can you possibly make this statement?

Maybe the koolaid's not all that should be put down?
Right.

Anyone watching that Philly game doesn't come out thinking "Oh boy, Tennessee has a serious air attack!" because Collins made bad throws all game and Britt pretty much ran uncovered all during the second half.

One of those big plays Britt literally runs right past 3 Eagle defenders...just runs right past them without anyone responding. I can't imagine what the Texans would have done to Philly if we were playing that game. That's how I honestly feel.

Also CJ hasn't been great this year. I'm worried about the Titans, more than the Colts. I'll say that much. It's more because of whats on defense though than offense. I feel like the Titans have yet to face a elite offense yet and the best offense they've played thus far (Denver) beat them.

They have a good defense, but the Texans when on present a lot of problems for any defense.
 

Hervoyel

BUENO!
I've been trying not to go here. But...

The Giants stack the box to stop CJ2k...... they score 29.

The Giants stack the box to stop AFoster..... we go 3 & out.


The Cowboys stack the box to stop CJ2k.... they score 34.

The Cowboys allow Foster to get 100.... we score 6 points.
In both cases our passing game failed us as well as our defense (arguably if our passing game had been able to get on track our defense wouldn't have been in nearly as bad a position). Still, the thing is more often than not our passing game experiences success. More often than not Kerry Collins reverts to the player we all know he really is. I'm just saying that I'm not worried about the Titans as much as you seem to be. They're riding high, they'll eventually deal with some lows. We've had a few lows and we're due to ride high again. Seasons are long, it'll be alright.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
People always stacked the box to stop the Titans. Until last year,
when they drafted Kenny Britt, they had no receiver to make teams
pay over the top. Britt is a legit deep threat, and is a huge, strong target
for either Collins OR Young.

If you remember last year, when VY lead a 99 yard drive for a touchdown
to beat the Cardinals, it was Kenny Britt who caught that touchdown at
the back of the endzone.

The Titans offense is getting better, and it's definitely good enough to beat
any team they play when paired with the excellent defense the Titans play.
 

kcdoubleeagle

Waterboy
I know this is heresy around here, but I think the Titans look like the best team in the division right now. The offense is a little above average, but their defense is doing very well at creating turnovers. I think we will be fighting them for the division title all the way till the end of the season. Nice thing is that we play the Jags in the last game, and they play the Colts :)
Tennessee looks like the best team with a high powered offense..... as long as they keep Kerry Collins in the game...putting VY in would be the best thing for us.
 

Lucky

Ride, Captain, Ride!
Staff member
I've been trying not to go here. But...

The Giants stack the box to stop CJ2k...... they score 29.

The Giants stack the box to stop AFoster..... we go 3 & out.


The Cowboys stack the box to stop CJ2k.... they score 34.

The Cowboys allow Foster to get 100.... we score 6 points.
The Broncos beat the Titans.
The Raiders smoked the Broncos.
The Texans defeated the Raiders.
So when the Texans meet the Titans, that means...

Absolutely nothing. Each game is a discrete event. Kerry Collins led the Titans to their biggest passing day of the season. Big deal. He won't even be on the field next week in San Diego. The Texans passing game is stronger than the Titans by any metric you choose. This season, the Texans rushing attack has been at least as effective as the Titans. To suggest that the Titans offense is better (much less "worlds" better) than the Texans is just absurd.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
The Broncos beat the Titans.
The Raiders smoked the Broncos.
The Texans defeated the Raiders.
So when the Texans meet the Titans, that means...

Absolutely nothing. Each game is a discrete event. Kerry Collins led the Titans to their biggest passing day of the season. Big deal. He won't even be on the field next week in San Diego. The Texans passing game is stronger than the Titans by any metric you choose. This season, the Texans rushing attack has been at least as effective as the Titans. To suggest that the Titans offense is better (much less "worlds" better) than the Texans is just absurd.
Thank you for saving me the typing.
 
The Broncos beat the Titans.
The Raiders smoked the Broncos.
The Texans defeated the Raiders.
So when the Texans meet the Titans, that means...

Absolutely nothing. Each game is a discrete event. Kerry Collins led the Titans to their biggest passing day of the season. Big deal. He won't even be on the field next week in San Diego. The Texans passing game is stronger than the Titans by any metric you choose. This season, the Texans rushing attack has been at least as effective as the Titans. To suggest that the Titans offense is better (much less "worlds" better) than the Texans is just absurd.
Thing is, when I am faced with one of those "all things being equal" (or somewhat equal) situations between two teams, coaching is always the tie breaker for me.

I hate the Titans, but they are a very, very, very well-coached team.

We are not.
 

Hookem Horns

Texans Talk Bartender
Staff member
That Titans/Eagles score is misleading. The Eagles had control of that game for 3 quarters and were going in for TD to make it 26-7 late in the game. Then McCoy fumbled within the 5. At that point the wheels fell off for the Eagles. The Titans offense and even their defense did not look so great up to that point. The Eagles just collapsed and let them back in the game which isn't uncommon for that team. All that said kudos to the Titans for taking what the Eagles were giving.

As for Collins, he probably won't even be playing when they play the Texans. He looked pretty bad for 3 quarters and the Texans would be lucky to get him over Vince. We will probably get VY and VY has never lost to us. Also knowing my luck VY will probably sweep us and make my life more miserable here in Austin.
 

El Tejano

Hall of Fame
That Titans/Eagles score is misleading. The Eagles had control of that game for 3 quarters and were going in for TD to make it 26-7 late in the game. Then McCoy fumbled within the 5. At that point the wheels fell off for the Eagles. The Titans offense and even their defense did not look so great up to that point. The Eagles just collapsed and let them back in the game which isn't uncommon for that team. All that said kudos to the Titans for taking what the Eagles were giving.

As for Collins, he probably won't even be playing when they play the Texans. He looked pretty bad for 3 quarters and the Texans would be lucky to get him over Vince. We will probably get VY and VY has never lost to us. Also knowing my luck VY will probably sweep us and make my life more miserable here in Austin.
Because the Titans defense made a play. That's what good teams do and that's how good teams respond when their defense makes a play.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The Broncos beat the Titans.
The Raiders smoked the Broncos.
The Texans defeated the Raiders.
So when the Texans meet the Titans, that means...

Absolutely nothing. Each game is a discrete event. Kerry Collins led the Titans to their biggest passing day of the season. Big deal. He won't even be on the field next week in San Diego. The Texans passing game is stronger than the Titans by any metric you choose. This season, the Texans rushing attack has been at least as effective as the Titans. To suggest that the Titans offense is better (much less "worlds" better) than the Texans is just absurd.
Ok..... It's not about the Titans. I'm not worried about the Titans. It's about the coaching.

A defensive minded coach of a defensive minded team exploited a strategic faux pas implemented to "contain" his teams offense.

An offensive minded coach of an offensive minded team didn't.

This didn't happen once. It happened twice. Actually, it happened in Washington & it happened against Kansas city as well.

Kerry Collins threw for 3 TDs, Kenny Brit had 225 yards & 3 TDs...

What are we going to do when we play Philly? I'm thinking it's going to be Schaub 200 yards (?) AJ 80 yards (?).

& it's not just Philly, it's not just Tennessee. I bet we play scared, every time we go against a top rated Defense. San Diego? Jets? Titans? Baltimore? Titans?

We're not going to play like the Buffalo Bills who challenged that Baltimore defense & went toe to toe all game long. We're going to play it safe, try not to make mistakes.

We're going to keep our guard up to protect our head, while taking body blow after body blow, until we can't breath anymore.


If we were talking about Peyton Manning & Reggie Wayne, or Carson Palmer & TO/85, or Phillip Rivers & Malcom Floyd...... it would be different, but we're talking about Kerry Collins & Kenny Brit. Vince Young & Justin Gage....


C'mon man.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Thing is, when I am faced with one of those "all things being equal" (or somewhat equal) situations between two teams, coaching is always the tie breaker for me.

I hate the Titans, but they are a very, very, very well-coached team.

We are not.
Thank you for saving me the typing.

No, seriously. It's not that I think we aren't well coached, I think we coach scared.
 

silvrhand

All Pro
I have no idea how many points the Titans offense put up today. I do know Kenny Brit (who?) just put up 220 on Philly. Judging by the way we played against Dallas & NYGiants, & how they played against the Giants & the Cowboys...... we'll get stymied again.
I watched the game, the corner that was on Brit looked like he had no business on the field, I don't know if he was gimp or what but man he LOOKED far worse than our corners.

IMHO, Titans are much more of a threat when they don't have VY at QB, cause now they can beat you throwing the ball.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
I watched the game, the corner that was on Brit looked like he had no business on the field, I don't know if he was gimp or what but man he LOOKED far worse than our corners.

IMHO, Titans are much more of a threat when they don't have VY at QB, cause now they can beat you throwing the ball.
VY is having his best year statistically passing the ball. It started for him
when he beat St. Louis on a 99-yard drive while almost exclusively throwing
the ball. I believe he's at 7 touchdowns 2 interceptions. The Titans
offense is far more dangerous with Young back there, due to the extra
options he has to move the ball.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
Thank you for saving me the typing.

No, seriously. It's not that I think we aren't well coached, I think we coach scared.
I see the Titans find out the one or two things their players are good at,
and try to beat you over the head with them over and over again. It doesn't
matter if it's cute or not, whatever wins.

Didn't they beat the Texans one time with something like EIGHT fieldgoals?
 

GP

Go Texans!
The option play, with VY and CJ, was our demise vs. the Titans on last year's MNF game. We couldn't stop it, even on like 3rd and 15.

Our defense, IMO, is showing a sever inability to figure out what the opposing offense is doing AND STOP IT from happening over and over again.

I think our secondary runs way too much zone, and receivers are running routes that let them break off and find the open spots of that zone. We've got to start allowing the CBs to stay up on the WRs at the LOS, putting hands on them at the snap and making them fight for those first five yards.

With the exception of a few times, I have not seen Frank Bush/David Gibbs allow his CBs to jam a receiver. This seems so elementary to me: If you don't jam the receiver, it gives the WR an almost endless supply of options, such as running hard and then coming back on a curl route for an easy completion, or a slant pass with a QB 3-step drop for an easy completion, or a fake slant or fake curl or double move-type of route that gets the WR clear for an easy completion.

At this point, the WR is just doing whatever he wants. That makes QBs jobs so much easier, and it deflates the defensive line because they feel NO amount of pressure would make a difference in the end.

I'm not nearly as upset about the guys we have playing on defense as I am with how they are being used. it even feels like the LBers are being used in zone too much, too. In essence, only the defensive line is engaging at the snap and putting their hands on people.

And we wonder why our pass defense is so bad? If I am one of those guys on the defensive line for the Texans, I'm thinking about staging an intervention with my d-coord and his staff. Because our defensive line is getting jobbed, IMO, by its own coaches.

That's my take on it. I am not scared of other teams and what they can do or who they have on their team. I'm worried that we've got some sort of philosphical rift among players and coaches on the defensive side of our team. Things look disjointed and helter-skelter out there. Our defense looked leaps and bounds better last year...and it dang sure wasn't due to the mighty Dunta Robinson as has been suggested by a few people.
 

Blake

MMQB
With Tennessee winning, Nov 1 is a must win, just to keep pace. The Colts team has been decimated. They've had a week to prepare, we've had a week to prepare.

Losing is not an option.
Kubiak is 1-3 after his bye week. With Indy having the same bye week, and being in Indy, it doesn't bode well for the Texans. The only positive for the Texans is that Clark is out. But I have a feeling that Manning can make a star out of the next unknown Indy skill player.
 

GP

Go Texans!
Kubiak is 1-3 after his bye week. With Indy having the same bye week, and being in Indy, it doesn't bode well for the Texans. The only positive for the Texans is that Clark is out. But I have a feeling that Manning can make a star out of the next unknown Indy skill player.
I'm going to go ahead and predict a Texans loss.

1. Mainly because of the stat you just posted about Kubiak and games after his bye week. History shows that we don't prepare for the next game. We just don't. Last year vs. Titans was THE perfect example.

2. I bet Manning has created some new wrinkles to his passing game, and will exploit some holes he found that are on top of the holes he had already exploited last time. Manning with two weeks to prepare is bad mojo for us.

3. All of this, obviously, can be nullified if somehow the Colts drop passes or fumble the ball or don't predict Manning enough. Things can happen that will unravel any team on any Sunday.

It just doesn't bode well for us, due to the opponent AND the lurking historicals regarding Texans games after a bye week.
 

Double Barrel

Texans Talk Admin
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Hey, no matter what happens the rest of this season, at least we were 4-2! :texflag: and 9-7 last year!


OHHHH YEEEEAAAHHH!!! [/sarcasm]
 
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cuppacoffee

Resident Grouch
Maybe with the Titans winning, the team plays a little better knowing what's at stake on Monday Night. They really need to keep pace.


That's the problem with the Texans. I don't think they realize that there's a lot at stake in every game.

I doubt we beat the Titans this year and I doubt we beat Indy again.

From my vantage point I don't see us matching last years record.

Losses to dullas and ny exposed this team as a bunch of wannabes.

Does this make me a lesser fan because I won't accept their mediocrity and call them contenders?

Does being a fan preclude me from being a realist?



:coffee:
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
That's the problem with the Texans. I don't think they realize that there's a lot at stake in every game.

I doubt we beat the Titans this year and I doubt we beat Indy again.

From my vantage point I don't see us matching last years record.

Losses to dullas and ny exposed this team as a bunch of wannabes.

Does this make me a lesser fan because I won't accept their mediocrity and call them contenders?

Does being a fan preclude me from being a realist?



:coffee:
On the other hand, Tennessee made short work of both NY AND Dallas, both
games with Vince Young. If you haven't been watching the Titans, Vince
can actually THROW. He can already beat you with his legs, but he has
a legit target (Britt) and a system that allows him to make his reads
quickly.
 

infantrycak

Hall of Fame
1. Mainly because of the stat you just posted about Kubiak and games after his bye week. History shows that we don't prepare for the next game. We just don't. Last year vs. Titans was THE perfect example.
How was that an example of the Texans being unprepared? The Titans didn't have a lead until a minute left in the game and but for two missed field goals the Texans win the game.
 

silvrhand

All Pro
VY is having his best year statistically passing the ball. It started for him
when he beat St. Louis on a 99-yard drive while almost exclusively throwing
the ball. I believe he's at 7 touchdowns 2 interceptions. The Titans
offense is far more dangerous with Young back there, due to the extra
options he has to move the ball.
How many running QB's have ever won a superbowl? Steve Young has been the only one able to ever win a SB, and most of the years he had a bazillion times more talent on the team than VY ever has.

The formula for VY is to make him beat you with his arm, he still hasn't proven that he can do that consistently enough to carry a team.
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
How many running QB's have ever won a superbowl? Steve Young has been the only one able to ever win a SB, and most of the years he had a bazillion times more talent on the team than VY ever has.

The formula for VY is to make him beat you with his arm, he still hasn't proven that he can do that consistently enough to carry a team.
One thing VY HAS proven, is that when the game comes down to ONE play,
he consistently makes that ONE play. Close games against VY will not
be "advantage: Texans." As I've said, he's also throwing the ball better
than he ever has before. He's studying stills with his OC on the bench, much like Peyton does.

He could have McNabb-like progress in learning to become a passer, in addition
to the other weapons he has.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
The option play, with VY and CJ, was our demise vs. the Titans on last year's MNF game. We couldn't stop it, even on like 3rd and 15.

Our defense, IMO, is showing a sever inability to figure out what the opposing offense is doing AND STOP IT from happening over and over again.
I'm not so worried about our defense. We gave up 20 points a game last year, 27.7 this year... eh... not what I expected, but I expected them to struggle. Fans expecting us to go 2-2 without Cushing expeted the same.

I am upset with, & did not expect the offense to struggle. Especially not when we add the aspect we all thought would have gotten us another win or two... a run game.

I know what the stats say, & they are misleading, plain & simple. Those numbers say we dominated the game from an offensive perspective, & you know there's only one game that you could argue that.

We score 25 points a game. But at the end of the 1st half, we're usually down 14-0.

You know teams play different when they are up 14-0 than they do when they are down 14-0. Our defense can play differently with a 14-0 lead.

How many times has this explosive best-of offense led at the half?

Blame the defense? Cowboys only had 10 points at the half. We can't score more than 10 points than the Cowboys by half time? EVERY body else can. Raiders, We can't score more than 14 points against the Raiders in a half? 4 punts & a missed fieldgoal. Why is it ok to have 4 punts and a missed field goal in a half, but it's not okay for a defense to get worn down & tired for being on the field all day?

Chiefs, the defense screwed up, let the Chiefs march & score on their first possession. Offense, no sense of urgency, 3 & out, & one of those was penalized for Delay of Game..... at home.

The defense got the ball back, score still 7-0 KC.

Offense... punts the ball back, scoring 0.

Defense... get's the ball back, 7-0 KC.

Offense.... scores.... 7-7 all

Defense.. gets the ball back, 7-7

Offense..... nada (-3 yards), 7-7

Defense... gives up another TD.
But that's ok, we'll get the ball back to start the second half.

Anybody want to guess what the offense did with that possession? I'll give you 3 guesses to figure it OUT
 

DexmanC

Hall of Fame
Anybody want to guess what the offense did with that possession? I'll give you 3 guesses to figure it OUT
All the more reason to suspect the Texans will play "hope-to-win" ball
until the 4th quarter against the Colts. When will this team come out
to stomp "The Big Boy" without starting with a "hope-we-can-hang"
mentality.

Every time the Colts play the Ravens, Peyton goes deep early and often.
He doesn't let teams hang around for long. I want OUR offense to have
the same mentality. But, they do come out tentative against defenses
with great reputations.
 
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