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Video Evidence of Schaub's poor play.

dalemurphy

dalemurphy

Hall of Fame
This is the worst game I think I've seen from him. Reviewing the game, I was struck at his determination to force the ball into an injured AJ instead of reading and reacting to the Giants' coverage and defense. It also appeared to me that the Giants did a good job scouting and playing to his tendencies and Schaub was unable to adjust.

here's the article with video: Matt Schaub's Struggles
 
On top of that, other receivers couldn't get open. DA is a waste out there. He lacks ability to seperate, and is too small to shield DB's from the ball. Walter is good, but didn't have a real inspired game either. Add to that the inability to go to the second read and you get Matt's worst game as a Texan.
 
dalemurphy said:
This is the worst game I think I've seen from him. Reviewing the game, I was struck at his determination to force the ball into an injured AJ instead of reading and reacting to the Giants' coverage and defense. It also appeared to me that the Giants did a good job scouting and playing to his tendencies and Schaub was unable to adjust.

here's the article with video: Matt Schaub's Struggles
Click to expand...

On that first play, I think he should have hit KDub on top of Andre. The safety was playing Andre & the Corner was too shallow. That would have been a huge gain if Matt would have led KDub to the outside.
 
BigBull17 said:
On top of that, other receivers couldn't get open. DA is a waste out there. He lacks ability to seperate, and is too small to shield DB's from the ball. Walter is good, but didn't have a real inspired game either. Add to that the inability to go to the second read and you get Matt's worst game as a Texan.
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If you'd have watched the video provided, it wasn't an inability, it was flat out refusal to go to the second read.

& I remember one play where DA was wide open, he just couldn't finish the catch. I know there were more.... & If I remember right there was an offensive penalty on that one anyway.... Dressen's crack back.
 
Schaub really hasn't had a great game this year. He had a good outing against the Redskins, but much of his stats came in the second half of the game while playing from behind. I think our season record will remain contingent on his play over the next 11 games. If he can't get it going then this team won't be able to outscore the opponents.
 
I could be way off, but I think MS is having a hard time adjusting to the new offense. Dude has been missing reads all season. I know there are more, but there are two that still stand out to me. The week 1 pass to JJ when Andre was open for a sure TD a little deeper in the endzone. And week 3 when he threw to OD who was stopped at the one, when JJ had his guy beat on that same side fot a sure TD.
 
I think little Shanney had a better feel for Matt Schaub strengths, seemed like they ran a lot more quick slants, outs in flats & underneath to the TE's. Dennison is much more traditional long developing play action. in short the main thing that's changed is the OC which has impacted timing, should not have happened but it has.
 
These games vs. the NFC East teams reminds me of the days when Schaub played vs. the Titans defense when they had Haynesworth on there.

Teams who make Schaub uncomfortable on a regular basis just seem to end up rattling the whole offense.

I don't know if Schaub is going to make it. He needs a healthy pocket on a consistent basis in order to do his job. And this is something that I have been saying since about week 4 of his first season. The guy is not mobile, doesn't like to move. He's Drew Bledsoe, Jr.

If this team had a mobile guy who can pass the ball, it would make a world of difference. We wouldn't be perfect, but we wouldn't be one-dimensional either.
 
beerlover said:
I think little Shanney had a better feel for Matt Schaub strengths, seemed like they ran a lot more quick slants, outs in flats & underneath to the TE's. Dennison is much more traditional long developing play action. in short the main thing that's changed is the OC which has impacted timing, should not have happened but it has.
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Interesting analysis. If true, it would say a lot about the problems (growing pains).

My previous post in this thread, IMO, lines up a little bit with what you're saying...because Schaub doesn't need long-developing stuff as much as what's being thrown his way on the playcalling. Our WRs do better when AJ is going deep, clearing out pockets of space for the other receivers.

Also, some freaking draw plays to the RB wouldn't hurt right now, either. Would also help if the run existed, in order to sell a play-action, too.

This offense is in big trouble. They're treading water in the deep end of the pool right now.
 
What's funny, too, is that Kyle Shanahan dumbed down the playbook for McNabb when they played us in week 2. He gave McNabb three-step drops all day long, short slants and quick routes...and it gave the ball to the receivers so they could do something with it.

It just feels like every pass play is taking 12-seconds to occur.

Matt has paralysis of analysis, instead of quick recognition and reaction. He's staying with his primary target too long before scanning through his progressions, IMO.

In short, he just looks very bad out there.

START LEINART! :ant:
 
GP said:
These games vs. the NFC East teams reminds me of the days when Schaub played vs. the Titans defense when they had Haynesworth on there.

Teams who make Schaub uncomfortable on a regular basis just seem to end up rattling the whole offense.

I don't know if Schaub is going to make it. He needs a healthy pocket on a consistent basis in order to do his job. And this is something that I have been saying since about week 4 of his first season. The guy is not mobile, doesn't like to move. He's Drew Bledsoe, Jr.

If this team had a mobile guy who can pass the ball, it would make a world of difference. We wouldn't be perfect, but we wouldn't be one-dimensional either.
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you've got several posts in this thread with some good insight. And you hit on this on some of them. I don't know that he needs a healthy pocket like you mentioned here. Last year, he was ferry good at reading and deciphering defenses before the snap. We would put someone in motion & that would tell him what he needed to know.

Sunday, we would motion, the Giants wouldn't react & I think Matt would be thinking zone, and that's not what he got.

You've got several posts in this th
 
Matt Schaub is just an average QB that can have some good games at times but is perfectly capable of throwing up stinkers.
 
dalemurphy said:
This is the worst game I think I've seen from him. Reviewing the game, I was struck at his determination to force the ball into an injured AJ instead of reading and reacting to the Giants' coverage and defense. It also appeared to me that the Giants did a good job scouting and playing to his tendencies and Schaub was unable to adjust.

here's the article with video: Matt Schaub's Struggles
Click to expand...

Hey man I like the write up. I know I used to review each game back in the day and I just don't get the chance to anymore... but if you get a chance... you've got the video to do it some time... maybe take a random sample... and look at schaubs "decision making" vs larger NT/DTs (even just video of completions and accuracy) and vs smallish DT/NTs. I know its common sense but what separates Elite QBs from good/great ones is how they handle pressure in their face. For my money schaub has seen way too much of that in this season.

I'm not saying he's not making the right read... and by the way, his instincts are incredible... but for example that shovel pass to foster (that he dropped) if you watch... schaub just seems to "feel" the pressure and pull the ball down just in the nick of time.

He doesn't deal with pressure in his face as well. The second half of the Washington game is the exception to the rule.. he seemed to be able to ignore it... but I don't care how your pre-snap read is... if he can't step up into a pocket he is going to be ineffective.

I think another big problem was the batted down passes. How do you combat that? That made it virtually impossible to get a rhythm.

I've been an advocate of a big fat assed DT for a a while just to push the center into the QB's lap...

Maybe I'm completely wrong... school, and life have me too busy to go back and look right now..

Great writeup i'm just curious how he looked vs the other guys and with pressure in his face. That is the one thing that bothers me about Meyers.

Mike
 
Texanmike said:
Hey man I like the write up. I know I used to review each game back in the day and I just don't get the chance to anymore... but if you get a chance... you've got the video to do it some time... maybe take a random sample... and look at schaubs "decision making" vs larger NT/DTs (even just video of completions and accuracy) and vs smallish DT/NTs. I know its common sense but what separates Elite QBs from good/great ones is how they handle pressure in their face. For my money schaub has seen way too much of that in this season.

I'm not saying he's not making the right read... and by the way, his instincts are incredible... but for example that shovel pass to foster (that he dropped) if you watch... schaub just seems to "feel" the pressure and pull the ball down just in the nick of time.

He doesn't deal with pressure in his face as well. The second half of the Washington game is the exception to the rule.. he seemed to be able to ignore it... but I don't care how your pre-snap read is... if he can't step up into a pocket he is going to be ineffective.

I think another big problem was the batted down passes. How do you combat that? That made it virtually impossible to get a rhythm.

I've been an advocate of a big fat assed DT for a a while just to push the center into the QB's lap...

Maybe I'm completely wrong... school, and life have me too busy to go back and look right now..

Great writeup i'm just curious how he looked vs the other guys and with pressure in his face. That is the one thing that bothers me about Meyers.

Mike
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Thanks, Mike...

I don't think Schaub is an elite QB. I think he is very good (somewhere between the 6th and 10th best in the NFL. However, he can still improve. Certainly his pocket presence dramatically improved over the past season. The example of the shovel to Foster is a good example of that presence, as is the TD pass to AJ late in the Redskin game on 4th down.

Regarding batted down balls: the problem was the Oline's refusal to cut block on three step drops. Kubiak even mentioned that they "struggled" to cut the guys on those batted balls but that is what they needed to do. What's odd about that is Myers, Smith, and Caldwell didn't even attempt to cut on those plays... I'm not sure why.
 
The thing that's always bothered me about Matt is this: he appears to choose his receiver when he's in the huddle. Ball is snapped, and you see him look, but at the same time he's not 'truly' looking for another receiver; it's a tactic. As another poster put it earlier, that explains why he keeps pressing and forcing a pass into 2 or 3 man coverage, and no logical QB would do that and bring on the possible Int. and Matt does it time, and time again. I'm very full of questions. I have no answers, and that sad thing is we're not finding answers in our coaching staff either, and they're the ones who are SUPPOSED to ALWAYS have an answer. hmmmm.
 
Nice video.

The play that speaks the most loudly to me is the bootleg where it was obvious that the nickel corner was goign to blitz.

He was lined up at the line, in front of no one, leaning into the blitz like he was ready for it. Why bootleg in a situation like that. He almost got the *#*$ knocked out of him
 
I haven't gone back and done much tape study over Schaub but what I have gathered all year is that he has not been taking what the Defense is giving him. He seems to be waiting for the bigger play to develop and has suffered sacks as a result of it. The short to intermediate routes and crossing route aren't being taken advantage of IMO.
 
something isnt right with him for sure. i never thought he was elite but he could play. i almost think the probowl mvp got to his head.
 
dalemurphy said:
Thanks, Mike...

I don't think Schaub is an elite QB. I think he is very good (somewhere between the 6th and 10th best in the NFL. However, he can still improve. Certainly his pocket presence dramatically improved over the past season. The example of the shovel to Foster is a good example of that presence, as is the TD pass to AJ late in the Redskin game on 4th down.

Regarding batted down balls: the problem was the Oline's refusal to cut block on three step drops. Kubiak even mentioned that they "struggled" to cut the guys on those batted balls but that is what they needed to do. What's odd about that is Myers, Smith, and Caldwell didn't even attempt to cut on those plays... I'm not sure why.
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I'm sorry I was kind of busy when I was typing that question.

I agree he's between 6 and 10. That makes him good to great but not "Elite" That is reserved for Manning and 2 others...

What I believe he doesn't do on a consistent basis (and almost nobody does, even Peyton is a little worse when he has pressure in his face) is deal with pressure up the middle. His pocket awarness is not the same as his ability to avoid distraction. Manning and Brady and maybe Brees are in a class of their own when it comes to dealing with pressure in their lap. As long as a QB has a pocket to step into he has the ability to look and make a read in any direction.

I would be interested to see what it looks like when Payton plays the same team that we play. How does their pocket look compared to ours. Esp the 3-4 teams compared with 4-3 teams.

As for the cut blocks... I turned to shetexan and said "Schaub needs to call 'Pull' when he gets ready to throw the ball and everyone on the line needs to throw an elbow to the gut of the guy standing in front of them.. that'll keep em from reaching up".

Cut blocking works... but if they are doubled over in pain after 10-20 passes nobody will be reaching up. Illegal yes... if you ain't cheating you ain't trying bub.

Mike
 
Interesting video as always.

One thing about the knock downs. They did not seem to be caused by DL coming on close to Schaub. They were well away from him. It seems that he was side arming and short arming lots of his passes with a low starting trajectory......a great formula for knock downs and interceptions. I can't remember seeing any high throws to the receivers this game, even on longer pass attempts.
 
Scheme, scheme, scheme. I can't think of any other reason for our troubles on offense. Not to mention our troubles on defense.


Has anyone considered that our HC, OC, and DC have less than a combined 6 years of experience at that coaching position?
 
Texanmike said:
As for the cut blocks... I turned to shetexan and said "Schaub needs to call 'Pull' when he gets ready to throw the ball and everyone on the line needs to throw an elbow to the gut of the guy standing in front of them.. that'll keep em from reaching up".

Cut blocking works... but if they are doubled over in pain after 10-20 passes nobody will be reaching up. Illegal yes... if you ain't cheating you ain't trying bub.

Mike
Click to expand...

I heard Kubiak's comments about this, & I don't understand. I can't imagine wanting an offensive lineman laying on the ground while pass protecting. BAtted balls would be the least of our worries.

Dressen also got called for a crack-back block... which I thought was a little iffy. It looked good to me. He was in front of the guy, and hit him in the thighs, he didn't go too low & he didn't roll up on the backside of his legs.
 
the WR had the case of the droppies has well

Andre droped 1 pass i think

and DA dropped a ball yeah he had to jump to catch it but ya know

and to keep from some many batted down ballz thats on the oline the got to do there homework and who ever there going aganist they need to know if hes right handed or left handed and if he tries to back up and bat a ball the oline needs to grab his arm down
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
Interesting video as always.

One thing about the knock downs. They did not seem to be caused by DL coming on close to Schaub. They were well away from him. It seems that he was side arming and short arming lots of his passes with a low starting trajectory......a great formula for knock downs and interceptions. I can't remember seeing any high throws to the receivers this game, even on longer pass attempts.
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This was the major thing I noticed. He just wasn't putting any loft on it. He even hit his lineman's helmet a couple times.
 
thunderkyss said:
I heard Kubiak's comments about this, & I don't understand. I can't imagine wanting an offensive lineman laying on the ground while pass protecting. BAtted balls would be the least of our worries.

.
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I want to go back and look at these some more.
One play I remember at the moment was a defender standing up high on Winston (ie. the guy is no longer in position to rush the passer.)
I think this is a good time to cut block him to prevent him from reaching up to bat down the pass.

Cut block can be effective in pass pro.
I recall a play when I scouted Smith blocking for the Chiefs.
(He faked a regular pass block move, then get down and cut block the D-tackle cleanly and far away from the QB).
 
dalemurphy said:
This is the worst game I think I've seen from him. Reviewing the game, I was struck at his determination to force the ball into an injured AJ instead of reading and reacting to the Giants' coverage and defense. It also appeared to me that the Giants did a good job scouting and playing to his tendencies and Schaub was unable to adjust.

here's the article with video: Matt Schaub's Struggles
Click to expand...

I dont need video to tell that Matt played poorly. But thanks for the write up. I firmly beleive that an offenses shortcomings or struggles is firmly on the QB as well as the offenses positives. I kinda see the offense as an extension of the QB. And the fact that our high powered offense only scored 23 points in the Dallas and Giants game is concerning to me. Matt should be able to find a way to move the ball.
 
thunderkyss said:
I heard Kubiak's comments about this, & I don't understand. I can't imagine wanting an offensive lineman laying on the ground while pass protecting. BAtted balls would be the least of our worries.

Dressen also got called for a crack-back block... which I thought was a little iffy. It looked good to me. He was in front of the guy, and hit him in the thighs, he didn't go too low & he didn't roll up on the backside of his legs.
Click to expand...

Thunder I'm a little suprised that you have not seen effective cut blocking when it's done right it's very annoying as a DL and very hard to block technique, it keeps you on your heels a bit for sure.
 
thunderkyss said:
I heard Kubiak's comments about this, & I don't understand. I can't imagine wanting an offensive lineman laying on the ground while pass protecting. BAtted balls would be the least of our worries.

Dressen also got called for a crack-back block... which I thought was a little iffy. It looked good to me. He was in front of the guy, and hit him in the thighs, he didn't go too low & he didn't roll up on the backside of his legs.
Click to expand...

Oh I know. I don't think you do it every down.. but it will keep them honest... nothing like getting ready to jump and being cut... you won't want to do it again


Mike
 
gtexan02 said:
Nice video.

The play that speaks the most loudly to me is the bootleg where it was obvious that the nickel corner was goign to blitz.

He was lined up at the line, in front of no one, leaning into the blitz like he was ready for it. Why bootleg in a situation like that. He almost got the *#*$ knocked out of him
Click to expand...

Kubiak doesn't allow audibles.

BigBull17 said:
On top of that, other receivers couldn't get open. DA is a waste out there. He lacks ability to seperate, and is too small to shield DB's from the ball. Walter is good, but didn't have a real inspired game either. Add to that the inability to go to the second read and you get Matt's worst game as a Texan.
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Been saying this for a while about David Anderson. I'm surprised the fanboys didn't jump all over you for saying something bad about him. Perhaps it just needed to be highlighted. I'm sure they'll remind you of the greatness of the string dance TD celebration he did, when you know two years ago he caught touchdowns.

Sarcasm aside, I've said for a while I thought Matt is a good QB, but not elite. The Bledose comparisons are apt, though I think Bledsoe had a bit more fire in him.

What's wrong with the Texans O? I don't really know. Running game has looked good for the most part, really have looked out of sync in the passing game all year.
 
Texanmike said:
As for the cut blocks... I turned to shetexan and said "Schaub needs to call 'Pull' when he gets ready to throw the ball and everyone on the line needs to throw an elbow to the gut of the guy standing in front of them.. that'll keep em from reaching up".

Cut blocking works... but if they are doubled over in pain after 10-20 passes nobody will be reaching up. Illegal yes... if you ain't cheating you ain't trying bub.

Mike
Click to expand...

thunderkyss said:
I heard Kubiak's comments about this, & I don't understand. I can't imagine wanting an offensive lineman laying on the ground while pass protecting. Batted balls would be the least of our worries.
Click to expand...

I would assume a majority of the batted balls came on passes that were supposed to be 3 step drops. On those the QB is supposed to get the ball out quickly. That's what I think Kubiak is talking about. Normally it is the tackles the will go for the cut blocks, but I've see guards do it as well.
Cut blocking on quick routes is the norm.

When I was in college though, on deeper drops our coach told us to basically punch the d-linemen in the stomach when they jump and try to deflect balls. Even if they got it that time, they'd think hard before jumping up the next time.

But you're not going to cut block on 5 and 7 step drops...Just little quick stuff where the QB is supposed to hit his back foot and have the ball come out.

Dressen also got called for a crack-back block... which I thought was a little iffy. It looked good to me. He was in front of the guy, and hit him in the thighs, he didn't go too low & he didn't roll up on the backside of his legs .
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You cannot attempt to cut a player when doing a crack block. That is the point. Doesn't matter if you hit them in the back of their legs or the front...It's illegal to go low on a player when doing a crack block..

...But you shouldn't need to anyways...Crack blocks are supposed to be designed so that the defender doesn't see you coming...As soon as he turns to flow the other direction you should be kissing him in the mouth...

Dreesen should have just hit the dude up high and knocked the snot out of him. He didn't even see the block coming.
 
Rey said:
I would assume a majority of the batted balls came on passes that were supposed to be 3 step drops. On those the QB is supposed to get the ball out quickly. That's what I think Kubiak is talking about. Normally it is the tackles the will go for the cut blocks, but I've see guards do it as well.
Cut blocking on quick routes is the norm.
Click to expand...

I've been pretty critical of Matt recently, but a lot of those batted balls seem to be a result of our linemen getting pushed back into Matt.
 
silvrhand said:
Thunder I'm a little suprised that you have not seen effective cut blocking when it's done right it's very annoying as a DL and very hard to block technique, it keeps you on your heels a bit for sure.
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Texanmike said:
Oh I know. I don't think you do it every down.. but it will keep them honest... nothing like getting ready to jump and being cut... you won't want to do it again


Mike
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I have never seen an offensive lineman cut block in pass protection. It's suicide. On a run play, yes sure, do it. Do it all the time. A RB out of the backfield.. yeah, that's the only way for a guy like Sproles to block a Jared Allen or Julius Peppers.

But you don't ask your front 5 to cut block on pass pro.
 
thunderkyss said:
I have never seen an offensive lineman cut block in pass protection. It's suicide. On a run play, yes sure, do it. Do it all the time. A RB out of the backfield.. yeah, that's the only way for a guy like Sproles to block a Jared Allen or Julius Peppers.

But you don't ask your front 5 to cut block on pass pro.
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Actually, it is very common on 3 step drops and WR screens, etc... It isn't like a cut on a run play. Basically the goal is just to get the hands down. I'll put up some video of it next week so you can see some examples of it.
 
thunderkyss said:
I heard Kubiak's comments about this, & I don't understand. I can't imagine wanting an offensive lineman laying on the ground while pass protecting. BAtted balls would be the least of our worries.

Dressen also got called for a crack-back block... which I thought was a little iffy. It looked good to me. He was in front of the guy, and hit him in the thighs, he didn't go too low & he didn't roll up on the backside of his legs.
Click to expand...


Thunderkyss,

A crack-back block, unlike a cut block is considered ILLEGAL BELOW THE WAIST.
 
A cut block is legal when the player throwing the block is on the line, i.e. a slot or wide out can't throw a cut block. Kubes was saying in the presser or his SR610 show that it was called because the refs thought Dreesen was lined up in the slot. Either way it was a crappy call.

I agree that Schaub isn't playing as well this year. I will say that the fault lies with the entire offense as much as it does with Schaub:
1) The O line is more porous that it was last year. Most QBs struggle under pressure including Schaub
2) The receivers don't seem to be getting separation
3) The playcalling is towards plays that take to long to develop. See #1.
4) Our runningbacks don't seem to be able to pick up blocks on the line
5) Our play action doesn't work when our running game is sidelined because we're too far behind.
6) The pocket collapses and he can't step up into it to make a throw.
7) There seemed to be missed assignments on almost every offensive play in the first half (NYG game)
Matt's making a lot of mistakes too:
1) He's holding the ball for too long on many plays when he does have good protection
2) He's missing reads on players that are running shorter routes
3) He's trying to put the ball into tight coverage / double coverage
4) He's failing to step up in the pocket in many cases to buy himself some time if a pocket exists
 
hradhak said:
A cut block is legal when the player throwing the block is on the line, i.e. a slot or wide out can't throw a cut block. Kubes was saying in the presser or his SR610 show that it was called because the refs thought Dreesen was lined up in the slot. Either way it was a crappy call.

I agree that Schaub isn't playing as well this year. I will say that the fault lies with the entire offense as much as it does with Schaub:
1) The O line is more porous that it was last year. Most QBs struggle under pressure including Schaub
2) The receivers don't seem to be getting separation
3) The playcalling is towards plays that take to long to develop. See #1.
4) Our runningbacks don't seem to be able to pick up blocks on the line
5) Our play action doesn't work when our running game is sidelined because we're too far behind.
6) The pocket collapses and he can't step up into it to make a throw.
7) There seemed to be missed assignments on almost every offensive play in the first half (NYG game)
Matt's making a lot of mistakes too:
1) He's holding the ball for too long on many plays when he does have good protection
2) He's missing reads on players that are running shorter routes
3) He's trying to put the ball into tight coverage / double coverage
4) He's failing to step up in the pocket in many cases to buy himself some time if a pocket exists
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That makes sense, I didn't know that about cut blocking.

However it was no secret a big part of last years 25 sacks was Schaub getting rid of the ball on time. So I find it hard to believe the porous line.

Missing reads, I believe starts with correctly reading the defense & anticipating the open receiver.

He made plenty of throws into tight coverage last year, many I thought he never should have thrown. This year, it seems he's throwing those balls a hair too late.

Completely agree he did a much better job of extending plays last year, and making things happen. I don't mind throwing the ball away, but every now & then, you've got to make a play.
 
Don't forget they have Rosenfels on their team and he knows Schaub pretty well..... especially if Schaub has any quirks or "tells" that could clue the defense in to what he was going to do ahead of time.
 
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