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What would it take to run a 3-4 defense?
- Thread starter Blake
- Start date
We dont have a NT.
But Mario and Smith on the Ends, with Okoye being a decent (maybe) backup.
LB- Cushing and Barwin on the outside, Diles and Ryans in the middle.
I could live with this, actually it is more exciting than our 4-3. But a NT is needed in a bad way.
But Mario and Smith on the Ends, with Okoye being a decent (maybe) backup.
LB- Cushing and Barwin on the outside, Diles and Ryans in the middle.
I could live with this, actually it is more exciting than our 4-3. But a NT is needed in a bad way.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Well you need a OLB that is more built to blitz, I think Barwin fits the bill nicely when healthy. You need Lbers that can cover the middle. I think we have a strong 4-3 LBing corps but, a weak 3-4 LBing corps. I think like Cushing, Ryans, and Sharpton and Adibi battling for the final spot as our starters along with Barwin. Much as I like Diles as a 3-4 Lber you got to have sideline to sideline speed, he just doesn't have it.
Also would have to have one big body in the middle, DelJuan might fit that role. Smith and Williams would make good 3-4 DEs, but if you ask me I think Mario is a much better fit as a 4-3 DE. We'd also have to get bigger at DE behind those two.
I wouldn't see a huge change in how the secondary is composed.
Cushing and Barwin would be pretty good at OLB.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Antonio - ???? - Mario
Cush - Sharpton - Demeco - Diles/Adibi/Bing/Barwin
The biggest problem would be the NT. We don't have someone that can really play that spot. Okam would probably be closest but he doesn't play well enough.
There would be a dogfight for the other outside LB spot opposite Cush. Right now, it would go to Diles but when Bing and Barwin come back from IR, they'd be pushing for that spot because they'd be better rushing the passer, I think.
I think Cody, Okoye, and Mitchell would have problems fitting in.
TimeKiller
Guest
I think you'd need to draft or sign another rush type OLB. Cushing would work but he/Ryans would be a lethal combo protecting the middle with someone more like Barwin outside. Frankly that's all you would need. Between Mario and Smith there isn't a lack of size without a 350+ NT, so Okoye/Cody/Okam would be fine as a rotation. There especially wouldn't be a lack of size if you add Cush/Barwin/possibly the other drafted OLB in this hypothetical.
So you have something like this:
ASmith - Okoye - Mario
OLB - Cushing - Ryans - Barwin
Jackson - Pollard - Nolan
- Quin
And you would need a coach who knew what to do with all that talent.
Actually, the Texans ran a bit of 3/4 with Barwin really giving them an element of surprise. They ran it effectively in the preseason lining up like this:
ASmith - Cody - Okoye
Barwin - Cushing - Ryans - Mario
Jackson - Pollard - Wilson - Quin
So you have something like this:
ASmith - Okoye - Mario
OLB - Cushing - Ryans - Barwin
Jackson - Pollard - Nolan
- QuinAnd you would need a coach who knew what to do with all that talent.
Actually, the Texans ran a bit of 3/4 with Barwin really giving them an element of surprise. They ran it effectively in the preseason lining up like this:
ASmith - Cody - Okoye
Barwin - Cushing - Ryans - Mario
Jackson - Pollard - Wilson - Quin
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Like everyone else is saying, we'd first need to get a big ass NT. Cody or Okam may fill in, but they wouldn't be a permanent solution.
You can expect Mario to demand a trade. He's a prototypical 4-3 DE. Remember how Kampman didn't like the transition in GB and wanted out? Expect the same thing.
I actually think Okoye would be a good 3-4 DE. Smith would do good as well.
Like others have mentioned, I'd like to see Barwin as the 4th LB that rushes the passer.
You can expect Mario to demand a trade. He's a prototypical 4-3 DE. Remember how Kampman didn't like the transition in GB and wanted out? Expect the same thing.
I actually think Okoye would be a good 3-4 DE. Smith would do good as well.
Like others have mentioned, I'd like to see Barwin as the 4th LB that rushes the passer.
I think you'd need to draft or sign another rush type OLB. Cushing would work but he/Ryans would be a lethal combo protecting the middle with someone more like Barwin outside. Frankly that's all you would need. Between Mario and Smith there isn't a lack of size without a 350+ NT, so Okoye/Cody/Okam would be fine as a rotation. There especially wouldn't be a lack of size if you add Cush/Barwin/possibly the other drafted OLB in this hypothetical.
So you have something like this:
ASmith - Okoye - Mario
OLB - Cushing - Ryans - Barwin
Jackson - Pollard - Nolan
And you would need a coach who knew what to do with all that talent.
Actually, the Texans ran a bit of 3/4 with Barwin really giving them an element of surprise. They ran it effectively in the preseason lining up like this:
ASmith - Cody - Okoye
Barwin - Cushing - Ryans - Mario
Jackson - Pollard - Wilson - Quin
Yeah, Cushing would be a Mike LB if we didn't have Demeco. He is a leader, smart, and a tough cookie. Mario would be ok at times as an OLB, but he is a little too big. Smith didn't fit as a 3-4 end.
C Madd
Waterboy
I couldn't see him as a 3-4 DE either and I think it'd be a huge waste of his ability. I think you'd almost HAVE to stand him up and have him play OLB. Maybe Okoye and Mitchell as the 3-4 DEs and bring in some huge fat ass run stopper for the DT.
I think Houston is pretty well built to run 4-3, though, and would hate to see it change any time soon.
TimeKiller
Guest
I don't believe Mario's size is what hampers his ability as a 3/4 guy. It's his coverage skills (or lack of). He would be asked to drop more than he does now which is maybe once or twice a game MAYBE. Honestly, I think he has the capability to do it, he's just worked so long on being a hand down guy. He works standing up pretty well, he just doesn't do it much.
Smith would be a pretty awesome 3/4 end if you ask me. He and Okoye (and COdy as the biggin' NT) are the front when they flash a 3/4 out there.
Well said !
Things are going well, actually I guess they're going better than ever given
the Texans have never been at 3-1 before. So why on earth would somebody want to even speculate about bringing in another coach and changing the defensive/offensive system right now ?
For Christ's sake, lets give Kubiak the benefit of the doubt atleast for the time being. I think he's earned it.
I thought Smith left Zona cause he was ill suited for a 3-4. I think Mario would be pretty good in a 3-4. either as a lb or an end. He is decent in coverage, no worse than Diles...
m5kwatts
Veteran
5-techniques would be Okoye, Antonio, Nading, & Mario (when Barwin rushes)
0-techniques would be Okam, Cody and on 3rd downs Okoye and Mitchell
The SAM OLB would be Cush every down
The inside MIKE would be Demeco and the inside WILL would be Diles
The WILL or blindside rush OLB would be Mario primarily & Barwin (Mario to 3 tech)
I don't know why Cowher needs to be here, Bush isn't married to the 4-3 we already run a lot of this.
0-techniques would be Okam, Cody and on 3rd downs Okoye and Mitchell
The SAM OLB would be Cush every down
The inside MIKE would be Demeco and the inside WILL would be Diles
The WILL or blindside rush OLB would be Mario primarily & Barwin (Mario to 3 tech)
I don't know why Cowher needs to be here, Bush isn't married to the 4-3 we already run a lot of this.
Blake
MMQB
NOTICE: For those that are getting their panties in a wad. I am not saying lets do it. I said this is just for fun. Something to talk about in the middle of a loooong week.
So it sounds like the front 3 are the problem with only A. Smith fitting in at DE. But I do think Mario is pretty good against the run and double teams, so I think he would fit too. Everyone else isnt a fit, or isnt good enough to start.
Probably would set the org back a year or 2 as we draft the right players. While hoping our offense can just outscore everyone ala the Packers of the past couple of years. A couple of these guys could get the ball rolling.
Allen Bailey, DE/DT, Miami
Jared Crick, DE/DT, Nebraska
Jerrell Powe, NT, Ole Miss
Akeem Ayers, DE/OLB, UCLA
So it sounds like the front 3 are the problem with only A. Smith fitting in at DE. But I do think Mario is pretty good against the run and double teams, so I think he would fit too. Everyone else isnt a fit, or isnt good enough to start.
Probably would set the org back a year or 2 as we draft the right players. While hoping our offense can just outscore everyone ala the Packers of the past couple of years. A couple of these guys could get the ball rolling.
Allen Bailey, DE/DT, Miami
Jared Crick, DE/DT, Nebraska
Jerrell Powe, NT, Ole Miss
Akeem Ayers, DE/OLB, UCLA
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
...two words baby... "BILL & ME!" Yo Bill...suit up. We're back in the game!
Dread-Head
Hall of Fame
All we would need is this guy:
He loves the 3-4 D!
...and fried chicken, pizza, lasagne, deep fried EVERYTHING, chocolate covered lard balls, chilli doughnuts and FLAN BABY! FLAN!
TimeKiller
Guest
I figured it was
I mean, we have Bush (from Arizona) running the same sort of hybrid 3/4 4/3 mixer thang. And since he got his big payday out of there I'd say he wasn't exactly sucking.
and lol at Mario>Diles. It's funny because it's true.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Okay, lemme put my cane up.
Yeah, is that what you want to call it?? Please, it's not
And you would know this how???
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Yeah, is that what you want to call it?? Please, it's not
Why is everything phallic to you??
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Back to topic:
Jason Babin!
Jason Babin!
CretorFrigg
Fire Rick Smith
Like everyone's saying, we would need a dominant NT in order to switch to a 3-4 defense. Okoye isn't strong enough to be the "space-filler" that is required of a NT. I'd also be curious to see how effective Mario would be as a 3-4 DE. His role would certainly change as he'll primarily be responsible for stopping the run and essentially be a DT in our 4-3 defense. I could see Barwin moving to OLB -- mostly as a pass rusher and occasionally dropping into coverage; much like what he's doing now except standing up as a LB.
It seems like every other team in the league now is switching over to the 3-4 though. What's the advantage?
It seems like every other team in the league now is switching over to the 3-4 though. What's the advantage?
Back to topic:
Jason Babin!
Using Mario as a 3-4 DE would be a waste.
CretorFrigg
Fire Rick Smith
TimeKiller
Guest
Finding the players that fit the physical mold is easier, save NT. Mario Williams/Julius Peppers types aren't common. Real big guys are hard to find. Real big guys who can move are even more rare.
The D is supposed to be fast, so short passes/outside runs aren't as effective (hence why the Texans possibly have so much difficulty).
Reading a 3-4 D is harder because picking up who is blitzing is more of a guessing game. 4-3 it's going to be the 4 DL consistently with a LB or CB for extra blitz. 3-4 you don't really know which of the 4 LB will blitz/drop until the play which is why you see 3-4 teams be more aggressive blitzing. More often and with more blitzers usually.
Not advocating switching at all. Purely speculation.
Understand. But Mario would not be a DE in a 3-4. He would be an OLB, while Barwin would be the rush OLB. Cushing and Ryans could man the middle.
None of whom would be an ideal fit. Though Cushing would make a very good rush OLB.
I am glad that we are not switching to a 3-4 but just for fun this would be my line-up if we were forced to do it with this exact team:
Corners and safeties stay the same.
OLB's: Cushing and Barwin
ILB's: Ryans and Diles
DE's: Amobi and Smith
NT: Mario and Okam
That's pretty ugly, but if I had to do it, that's what I'd do...
Corners and safeties stay the same.
OLB's: Cushing and Barwin
ILB's: Ryans and Diles
DE's: Amobi and Smith
NT: Mario and Okam
That's pretty ugly, but if I had to do it, that's what I'd do...
CretorFrigg
Fire Rick Smith
Mario would probably be better than Amobi.
Why not?
Ratliff for the cowboys is pretty good right there...
I'd think Mario could at least be as effective as he is, no?
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Ratliff for the Girls isn't a space eater and he is probably more effective than a lot of those guys...
Did you read the post I was quoting? I didn't say that I would use him there. Just that it was an interesting idea. Personally, I think if we tried to go to a 3-4 predominant defense, we would be taking a step or two backwards and reducing Mario's effectiveness (greatly). It's ok as a different look, just like the 5-2 and 3-3 are.
Mario is one of the top 4-3 DE in the league, if not the best. For my money, he is the best overall DE in the league, though Peppers is right there also.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
A new coaching staff.
The heart of any 3-4 defense is a big nasty NT to take up at least 2 blockers, clog the middle, and collapse the pocket if possible. We don't have anyone on the team like that so we'd have to get one from FA, or the draft. The really good ones go high in the draft or are very expensive in FA. As for DE, Okoye could probably be one and either Cody, Mitchell, or Robinson could be the other for the time being til we found somebody better. At LB we'd be pretty good with Ryans, and Diles on the inside, and Cushing and Barwin on the outside. There might be some growing pains for these guys til they got the hang of the new positions and responsibilities but I think they'd learn and could handle the job. Mario might be able to handle one of the DE spots but he's just not built for that job. He is what he is, a 4-3 DE and really isn't suited for the 3-4. I don't think he could handle coverage responsibilities as an OLB. He may need to be traded for a top NT and/or top draft picks. I think we'd also have to add some better players in the secondary but we need that anyway.