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What's up with the secondary?

D

dream_team

Hall of Fame
Statistically, Houston has the worst passing defense in the NFL.

After week 1, I wasn't too concerned. Considering we faced the best QB in the league, and alot of those yards were given up while we were in prevent mode. But once again we give up 400 yards passing to a team that struggled to move the ball at all in week 1.

Why do you think the secondary is struggling so much?

You can no longer blame the lack of pass rush from the front four. You can also no longer blame Dunta Robinson.

Another question related to this topic... why do the Texans play so much zone coverage? I'm not a defensive whiz, but it seemed like majority of the time a receiver was wide open was when we were in a zone coverage.

Are we going to have to go through some growing pains with this secondary for a while?
 
Because we played the... second best QB in the league? :)

But you're right, we're in big trouble if we continue this. I did'nt see many blitzes, that might end up being an issue, if teams know that we hardly blitz?
 
We had no pass rush in the 1st half and McNabb made some really nice long passes into tight coverage.

I'm not ignoring the fact that there was some blown coverages, but IMO the stats will balance out, the run defense has been sharp and both of the teams we have played will be huge passing teams at the end of the season. Wait until we play Oakland and the Ravens.
 
We had no pass rush in the 1st half and McNabb made some really nice long passes into tight coverage.

I'm not ignoring the fact that there was some blown coverages, but IMO the stats will balance out, the run defense has been sharp and both of the teams we have played will be huge passing teams at the end of the season. Wait until we play Oakland and the Ravens.
 
dream_team said:
Statistically, Houston has the worst passing defense in the NFL.

After week 1, I wasn't too concerned. Considering we faced the best QB in the league, and alot of those yards were given up while we were in prevent mode. But once again we give up 400 yards passing to a team that struggled to move the ball at all in week 1.

Why do you think the secondary is struggling so much?

You can no longer blame the lack of pass rush from the front four. You can also no longer blame Dunta Robinson.

Another question related to this topic... why do the Texans play so much zone coverage? I'm not a defensive whiz, but it seemed like majority of the time a receiver was wide open was when we were in a zone coverage.

Are we going to have to go through some growing pains with this secondary for a while?
Click to expand...

Just because the Skins didn't move the ball in the first week of the season does not mean that they can't.

They have weapons!
And when McNabb have a little time, he can make plays. There's nothing strange about that.
He can make plays under pressure as well. That is nothing new either.

(Also, did you see what Manning did to his younger brother's team?)

As far as zone coverage, my thinking is that we have some young CBs and this Redskins' offense is kinda new to us. We don't know for sure about their tendency. With our offense, we can afford to trade score with them until the defense stop them on a drive here and there.

We don't let them have too many big plays (at least we tried to, with zone coverage) to minimize the crowd's participation.

Just my 2 cents.
 
Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Donovan McNabb, Santana Moss, Chris Cooley, Joey Galloway...that's a mix that can put up some fine passing numbers.

And they will do that as the season progresses, for sure. We're lucky our Texans got them this early, as the Redskins offense is starting to find itself. There are times stats don't define a game as much as dynamics. The Texans defense got the clutch hits, sacks and pops at the right time down the stretch.

It's disappointing Washington got what they wanted through the air much of the game...but it's not like Derek Anderson and some stiffs were doing that damage.
 
dream_team said:
Statistically, Houston has the worst passing defense in the NFL.

After week 1, I wasn't too concerned. Considering we faced the best QB in the league, and alot of those yards were given up while we were in prevent mode. But once again we give up 400 yards passing to a team that struggled to move the ball at all in week 1.

Why do you think the secondary is struggling so much?

You can no longer blame the lack of pass rush from the front four. You can also no longer blame Dunta Robinson.

Another question related to this topic... why do the Texans play so much zone coverage? I'm not a defensive whiz, but it seemed like majority of the time a receiver was wide open was when we were in a zone coverage.

Are we going to have to go through some growing pains with this secondary for a while?
Click to expand...

The way I've seen it is out of all those passing yards we only gave up one TD. They win alot of small battles. However, I agree this does need to improve before the bye.
 
However, our defense makes stops when it needs to. Can't ignore that. I think Jackson will find his feet. Pollard will always be average at best. We also were the first team to ever beat their old offensive coordinator.
 
do we have a single person in our secondary that isn't average (at best)? no. so there you have it.
 
worldlyman said:
Mike Shanahan, Kyle Shanahan, Donovan McNabb, Santana Moss, Chris Cooley, Joey Galloway...that's a mix that can put up some fine passing numbers.

And they will do that as the season progresses, for sure. We're lucky our Texans got them this early, as the Redskins offense is starting to find itself. There are times stats don't define a game as much as dynamics. The Texans defense got the clutch hits, sacks and pops at the right time down the stretch.

It's disappointing Washington got what they wanted through the air much of the game...but it's not like Derek Anderson and some stiffs were doing that damage.
Click to expand...

This is my take. I always expected McNabb to have great numbers in a Shanny run offense. I just wasn't expecting it until later in the season.

Our secondary is still young and playing against some great HoF caliber QBs, they will be getting burned and there's nothing we can do about it.

I will not really worry until they give up 400 yds to a team like the Raiders...
 
I'm not so concerned about it. Manning is arguably the best QB of all time and McNabb is a very prolific passer. Especially when you consider that both teams are forced to pass since we shutdown the running game.

Our defense finally started putting pressure on McNabb in the 2nd half and McNabb didn't look as good and we got stops. Kareem Jackson still has a lot to learn in this league, but it is good that we have a very strong team around him so we can cushion some of the mistakes. He, and the rest of the secondary, are going to get caught up to speed fast.
 
In reaction to a strong run defense teams are forced to throw the ball more. since so many players are committed to the pass rush it leaves secondary in zone with multiple options open is space. high risk reward while young secondary learns on the fly.
 
Yes McNabb is a probowl QB and we have a lack of a pass rush, but did you see how open their receivers were. Our CB's are giving a soft cushion around their receivers, always keeping them in front of them, that reminds me of when Richard Smith was our DC. It seems that we're playing some version of a prevent defense the entire game, I guess because they're afraid of the WR getting behind them. I don't think this is a problem with our CB's so much as it is a problem with our DC and his lack of confidence in our CB's.
 
silvrhand said:
Well when you give a pro bowl QB all day to throw that'll happen.
Click to expand...

True. I know Mario had like 3 sacks but that wasn't until the second half. That first half we were getting nothing.

I'd also like to add that some of these passing yards will go down once #56 is back in action.
 
hradhak said:
I'm not so concerned about it. Manning is arguably the best QB of all time and McNabb is a very prolific passer. Especially when you consider that both teams are forced to pass since we shutdown the running game.

Our defense finally started putting pressure on McNabb in the 2nd half and McNabb didn't look as good and we got stops. Kareem Jackson still has a lot to learn in this league, but it is good that we have a very strong team around him so we can cushion some of the mistakes. He, and the rest of the secondary, are going to get caught up to speed fast.
Click to expand...

Kareem also defended well on a few plays that caused Washington to settle for Field Goals early.
 
#1 McNabb is a good QB.
#2 We seemed to be playing alot of zone allowing quick players to settle into open areas and catch and run.
#3 We have a young collection of corners (Not gonna get into the Dunta vs. Kareem Debate)
#4 We are in Washington
#5 We just got done with a huge game. Possible letdown game.

Just imagine what Skins fans are feeling getting throttled for 500 passing yards.

On a possitive side of things. We Were #1 in rushing in week 1. And #1 in passing week 2. Seems like we can do whatever we need to win. Pass or Run.
 
I'm only basing it on their roster, coaches, and two weeks of games but I think we just beat the eventual NFC East champions. I genuinely believe that these guys are going to win that division this year.

The Redskins couldn't have been surprised by anything we did. There was no element of surprise to that game as far as our offense and defense were concerned. Their coaching staff knows us inside out. On the other hand it took us a little while to wrap our heads around Haslett's defense but we eventually did figure out how to work around it.

I think that Frank Bush will get a handle on this soon. Jackson is going to take his rookie lumps but this is bigger than that. They'll get the mental errors ironed out, Cushing will come back, and we'll get back to where we were last season over the last 12 games.
 
164 of those yards were from their TE/FB position. Thats almost half! and it was due to our LB's blowing coverage, not the secondary. I figure once Cushing comes back, that this situation will resolve itself.

Adibi was abused.
 
Once Cushing comes back, I think you'll see a huge jump in our defensive performance.

At the game, I was shocked at how open their WRs and TEs and FBs were. On a few plays, McNabb made the wrong choice and could have had easy TDs if he had looked elsewhere.

K Jackson is a liability in coverage right now. He'll get better, but he had a very bad day yesterday
 
No More 8-8's said:
164 of those yards were from their TE/FB position. Thats almost half! and it was due to our LB's blowing coverage, not the secondary. I figure once Cushing comes back, that this situation will resolve itself.

Adibi was abused.
Click to expand...

He was. But he also made some big plays.
 
We are just not getting the pressure on the QB we need for the D-backs to have a real chance. Even for fast receivers, it takes some time for them to get down field on those very deep routes Donovan was throwing, and he's getting all kinds of time to make his passes.
Cushing certainly will do better than the X-man has been doing about tieing up the TE at the los, but unless they decide to have him put his hand in the dirt on passing downs he's not going to make that much difference in solving the problems with the pass rush. Losing Barwin for the season was big, but maybe one of these FAs they brought will show some production after they get in shape ? Wow, Schobel just keep getting more and more leverage by the week if he would some how decide to come back.
 
IDEXAN said:
We are just not getting the pressure on the QB we need for the D-backs to have a real chance. Even for fast receivers, it takes some time for them to get down field on those very deep routes Donovan was throwing, and he's getting all kinds of time to make his passes.
Cushing certainly will do better than the X-man has been doing about tieing up the TE at the los, but unless they decide to have him put his hand in the dirt on passing downs he's not going to make that much difference in solving the problems with the pass rush. Losing Barwin for the season was big, but maybe one of these FAs they brought will show some production after they get in shape ? Wow, Schobel just keep getting more and more leverage by the week if he would some how decide to come back.
Click to expand...

Its not just a pressure issue. No matter how long you give a guy, you should never end up with 2 Redskins players on the sideline with no texans within 20 yards
 
Super Mario said:
#1 McNabb is a good QB.
#2 We seemed to be playing alot of zone allowing quick players to settle into open areas and catch and run.
#3 We have a young collection of corners (Not gonna get into the Dunta vs. Kareem Debate)
#4 We are in Washington
#5 We just got done with a huge game. Possible letdown game.

Just imagine what Skins fans are feeling getting throttled for 500 passing yards.

On a possitive side of things. We Were #1 in rushing in week 1. And #1 in passing week 2. Seems like we can do whatever we need to win. Pass or Run.
Click to expand...

We were in zone to keep eyes on a mobile QB. McNabb can hurt you with his legs so you have to keep him honest. As was said before, guys are average at best or very new to the NFL. I would rather see McCain at the other CB spot, as he seems to be a little better in coverage. Quinn is a FS in the NFL. I don't see him as a CB. If you moved him to Wilson's spot, and started McCain, I think our pass D would improve instantly.
 
painekiller said:
We had no pass rush in the 1st half and McNabb made some really nice long passes into tight coverage.

I'm not ignoring the fact that there was some blown coverages, but IMO the stats will balance out, the run defense has been sharp and both of the teams we have played will be huge passing teams at the end of the season. Wait until we play Oakland and the Ravens.
Click to expand...

I thought that Shanahan had a really solid game plan early on to negate the Texans pass rush. They sucked them in with short passes - couple early screens to WR's , and the FB Sellers had a couple real nice plays early , they hit a quick slant or two as well ..... and then beat them over the top ....

I gotta give the Skins some credit , they are a much better team than I thought.
 
All of our corners are young.

We didn't have a pass rush for most of the day.

They had a lot of yards via the FB and TE. (Good playcalling on their part)

McNabb made some excellent throws, and his receivers made some great catches.

They couldn't run the ball, so they had to pass it all day long.

That's what's wrong with our secondary.
 
Folks we played exactly how we drafted. I am not saying I told you so because I think Jackson is showing more than I thought. Our closest player to a cover CB is Brice McCain. Quin and Jackson were drafted to be effective from the scrimmage to about 20 yards out. Both are heavy hitters and both are pretty much inexperienced. A QB like McNabb licks his lips when he looks at our secondary. Beerlover, Rmartin65 & I have talked about free safety and this is a game even more so than Colts that we need good safety action and I was satisfied with what we have from Wilson and Pollard. IMO, our defensive startegy has been to shut down the run and we have done that for the most part. Keep in mind that our Oline looked good against a Colt Oline that is light. I think skins bring a heavier line or at least they played like it. The first half our Oline appeared to be just trying to get in the way of the opponent not drive them back or to the side. This also impacted Foster's lack of running as few lanes opened.
 
I'm going to have to re-watch the game, but I thought the Texans did a good job at pressuring the QB all day. The only problem, is that McNabb took alot of quick 3-step drops and bootlegs to move away from the pressure. And when he did that, receivers were wide open.

I didn't see many blitzes called. And when you do that, you have to rely that the coverage is doing its job.

For those saying the QB pressure improved in the 2nd half, McNabb was still able to pass for 157 yards in the 2nd half. That's better than the 236 in the 1st half, but that's still too much.

I'd really like to sit in a tape session with Gibbs & the secondary and really understand our coverages. I'm getting tired of seeing guys wide open so much. I'd like to know if they're simply blown coverages, people aren't where they're supposed to be, or if we simply don't have talented players.
 
dream_team said:
Statistically, Houston has the worst passing defense in the NFL.

After week 1, I wasn't too concerned. Considering we faced the best QB in the league, and alot of those yards were given up while we were in prevent mode. But once again we give up 400 yards passing to a team that struggled to move the ball at all in week 1.

Why do you think the secondary is struggling so much?

You can no longer blame the lack of pass rush from the front four. You can also no longer blame Dunta Robinson.

Another question related to this topic... why do the Texans play so much zone coverage? I'm not a defensive whiz, but it seemed like majority of the time a receiver was wide open was when we were in a zone coverage.

Are we going to have to go through some growing pains with this secondary for a while?
Click to expand...

Why are you surprised by any of this? I don't understand why anyone would have thought that we'd have a good secondary this season when it was **** last season and now we've got a rookie as our #1 guy this year along with another 2nd year player on the other side. Mathews looks like he'll be pretty good, but he's still a rookie that will have a lot of growing pains and so will Quinn. CB is one of the hardest positions to learn in the NFL. Pollard is our only true bad ass in the secondary. This is what you should have expected before the season and should expect from here on out this year. They're young and they're going to make mistakes and they're playing a very tough schedule this season.
 
I think bush was slow to transition from stopping the run to preventing the pass. The texans secondary is young because they lost their best corner in robinson who was above avg. They didn't challenge the receivers early when both guys are seam players and outside the hash. Anytime you have small speed guys like the moss-galloway combo, they should've bump and run,man under 2 deep and make them dink and dunk down the field vs the big throws. Thy also didn't harrass mcnabb enough who is a probowl qb. The colts game involved alot of garbage yards and a garbage td also. They must do better and hopefully get better.
 
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