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AJ:Hindsight 20-20: Kareem Jackson or Leigh Bodden?
- Thread starter Wolf
- Start date
drs23
Veteran
My Dad always told me "the proof's in the pudding".
Everyone recalls the excitement when he made his visit. Facebook, Twitter, hell everything just short of a housewarming party. He got his bid and went back home.
Draft day: enter #1 pick Kareem Jackson. Folks were upset we didn't draft Kyle Wilson out of Boise St (who was listed as a franchise prospect here:http://cfn.scout.com/2/856960.html) or Devin McCourty, Rutgers (listed as #3 here:http://walterfootball.com/draft2010CB.php) BTW, Kareem was listed at #22 in the BEST OF THE REST catagory at cfn.scout.com.
Coaches like/needed the fact that he' s game ready, the others with more "upside". I understand the upside view to a point. My question is since Kareem was exposed to Saban's hands on coaching during his collegiate career and he's ready to go day 1, how many years does it take the other guys to get to where he is now? And when they get there, what in the "upside" indicates they'll exceed Kareem's topside since he got a 3 year head start?
I'm sure I'm like a lot of others in that I can't wait to see how their careers go from here. I'll certainly be paying attention 'cause "the proof's in the pudding".
How do we even know that the Texans would take one of those guys?
Maybe they would have traded up for Earl Thomas? Or traded down or who knows...
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
i really liked dan williams as well. time will tell but i think jackson is gonna work out for us.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'm very hopeful that Jackson can live up to our expectations. And I do believe he has a good chance of being a surprising jewel. Of all defensive positions, CB is a very difficult one "to protect" from deficiency.
No More 8-8's
Waterboy
Clearly there has to have been something the scouts didnt like in Kyle Wilson, or else he wouldnt have ended up with the Jets.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
IMO, It's going to take a lot longer than just game one against the colts to know how good the pick was or not. That's just about tough a start to one's career at CB that you could ask for. I suspect more along the lines the end of the season to be able to judge his progress. And of course hoping he makes a leap forward in his second year as well will provide the results of that draft choice.
How does one measure upside anyway, it's all so subjective. I realize things like raw atheleticism, etc go into scouts saying that, but remember Demeco slipped to the 2nd round because he was tad slow in the 40 and a tad undersized.
How does one measure upside anyway, it's all so subjective. I realize things like raw atheleticism, etc go into scouts saying that, but remember Demeco slipped to the 2nd round because he was tad slow in the 40 and a tad undersized.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
excatly. look back to last season & Cushing's learning curve vs Peyton & Clark. Game one Dallas had 14 receptions for 119 yards, Cushing was always just out of position to make a play but still recoverd to make the tackle 12 times in fact. In the second meeting Dallas Clark was limited to 9 receptions for 63 yards while Cushing still got his 11 tackles or so. I expect Kareem to have a similar fast track learning curve.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I like AJ and respect most of his work, but I couldn't disagree with this article more.
It assumes that this was an x "OR" y equation when it's not. Bodden chose to resign in N.E. There was no guarantee that if we had thrown x more amount of money at him, that he would've left a team that perenially makes the playoffs vs a team still looking to get over the hump. The FO wisely decided they weren't going to overpay for a guy that isn't elite.
Unforunately as well it just wasn't a good crop of FA at CB this year.
Far as a choice goes hard to say. Were we going after him because he was the best name available outside of Dunta or because schematically he fit well? I know this much, schematically Kareem looks like what they are looking for in a corner, at least based on his play at Bama.
On the other hand you do know what you're going to get from Bodden, a not elite CB, while Jackson looks like he has the potential to turn into one.
It assumes that this was an x "OR" y equation when it's not. Bodden chose to resign in N.E. There was no guarantee that if we had thrown x more amount of money at him, that he would've left a team that perenially makes the playoffs vs a team still looking to get over the hump. The FO wisely decided they weren't going to overpay for a guy that isn't elite.
Unforunately as well it just wasn't a good crop of FA at CB this year.
Far as a choice goes hard to say. Were we going after him because he was the best name available outside of Dunta or because schematically he fit well? I know this much, schematically Kareem looks like what they are looking for in a corner, at least based on his play at Bama.
On the other hand you do know what you're going to get from Bodden, a not elite CB, while Jackson looks like he has the potential to turn into one.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Its the offseason AJ is trying to supplement us with a valid question which in the first paragraph he states the Texans were simply used by Bodden to leverage the Patriots.
I would like to say I nailed the Kareem Jackson pick but I didn't nobody did expect for maybe Spencer Tillman, but a CB was probably the correct choice given the Texans need @ that corner position. I've seen KJ in pads @ mini camp & he looks the part, he is also a very smart player he may give up the underneath garbage but only the best are going to beat him deep which is important given the Texans FS position. I expect him to get called for holding a couple times against the Colts but he'll learn.
I would like to say I nailed the Kareem Jackson pick but I didn't nobody did expect for maybe Spencer Tillman, but a CB was probably the correct choice given the Texans need @ that corner position. I've seen KJ in pads @ mini camp & he looks the part, he is also a very smart player he may give up the underneath garbage but only the best are going to beat him deep which is important given the Texans FS position. I expect him to get called for holding a couple times against the Colts but he'll learn.
The way I look at it now, Kareem Jackson is going against the best passing offense in the NFL in 2009, and lining up against the best reciever in the NFL.
I can't imagine a better training scenario for the young rookie.
I fully expect for him to be ready week 1 against the Colts.
I can't imagine a better training scenario for the young rookie.
I fully expect for him to be ready week 1 against the Colts.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
It's way too early for "hindsight".
In terms of THIS season, I thought Bodden would be the better pick. However, KJ solidifies the position over the long term.
In terms of THIS season, I thought Bodden would be the better pick. However, KJ solidifies the position over the long term.
drs23
Veteran
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Well I guess we did make the right decision after all...
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I heard this on the way home tonight and LMAO.. Not so much as it being that a player is hurt for the season, but laughing at how emotional folks got around here whenever Bodden first came to visit, after he re-signed with his former and team AND how cheap Bob McNair was... Good freakin' times!!!
I haven't heard anywhere that Jackson is making a good transition to the NFL. I've heard the exact opposite, that he's flashed talent but lacks consistency. IMHO, Brice McCain is gonna be the starter opposite Quin. Yes, Jackson had a pick against Dallas, but that was really trash time and not due to coverage, but a tipped ball. Yes, I know that tipped balls count, but don't make it out that Jackson is the next Revis. Give him a year, and maybe he will be.
hookinreds
Veteran
I think Revis is good, but not as good as most people think and certainly not as God like as Revis thinks he is. He's had his share of straight pick offs, but also quite a few freak pics and tips...I swear this guy gets more picks off of WR body parts (feet, back, head) than any I can remember. Some times you just have to be "that guy" that's in the right place at the right time, becuase it seems like Revis is that guy most of the time. He's made some pics on a lot of bad passes where he wasn't exactly in the WR back pocket.
Disclaimer...no I don't think Jackson is playing at Revis level yet.
TimeKiller
Guest
Isn't that what most rookies do? I think he's passed his preseason test, enough to start the beginning of the season anyway. I won't argue with you that his selection was a reach, it certainly wasn't BPA and it was absolutely a need but he's been decent enough so far. I guess I just don't think now is a legitimate point of judgement and that works either way, saying he's not handling it well or acting like he's the next DROY.
Mari-OWNED!
Bucco Bruce
How do you think Jackson is going to get better? Certainly not while sitting on the bench!
Obviously Jackson is going to have growing pains, but he needs to be out there playing/learning to ever have a chance to live up to what the Texans are expecting out of him.
TexanExile
A New Hope
This.
I'm comfortable with him starting, although I already feel sure that he's going to get toasted a few times in the first 4 games of the season. Game 1 against Manning could be particularly painful for a rookie DB. And on the occasional play when Tony Romo actually emerges from under center and retains control of the football, he'll make some creative throws that'll probably serve as teachable moments.
Bottom line: I'm way more comfortable with KJ learning and working toward his talent ceiling than I would've been watching his departed predecessor get flagged or blow tackles on roughly the same number of plays while en route to his talent floor. We made a need pick and I think it'll turn out to be a good one.
Then again, I thought Fred Bennett was gonna be a reliable starter, so, uh...
It was a tipped ball. But, the starters were still in for both teams. How can that be trash time?
GP
Go Texans!
I agree, Lucky.
He was alert, had his body positioned the right way, and ended up catching the ball instead of stone-handing it like some other cornerback would have done.
The entire first team was still in there. This wasn't against the 3's.
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5517497
No matter how he plays, looks like he will be better
No matter how he plays, looks like he will be better
Because if L. Bodden would have signed with the Texans he would have had an injury?
From what I observed, KJ's INT was as legitimate as can be (with the assist from Pollard's play).
KJ was doing the shuffle while covering the wide-out.
He was in position to see the QB from the get go (Romo saw that, and KJ knew that Romo saw that, too!)
The QB's best option in that scenario was the TE.
IMO, KJ was half-anticipating that throw (assuming that he has been well-coached and has a good football IQ).
He broke off his man quickly and turned upfield toward the sideline (great hip flexibility).
If the QB was careful and threw the ball a litlte wide and/or a little high so that Pollard can't get close to the TE, KJ would be in good position to go for the ball or to break off the pass.
In any case, he would have been able to help Pollard defend that play or help him with the tackle.
He did not head straight for the TE.
Instead, he broke on par with the path of the throw.
If there's a play to be made, he would be ready.
And there it was!
Of course, I had never proclaimed that KJ is going to be the next somebody.
But I do believe he's a solid CB who can do a good overall job.
I like his floor.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
I believe that KJ is going to be a good CB this year. You rarely heard his named called at all this past week and he was going up against an all pro in Miles Austin. Is he going to show he's a rookie? Yes he is. I believe it all depends on what our safeties play like too though.
Giant Tiger
Veteran
When he made that interception, I thought he had a clear path to the end zone, but he was tackled well short. Looked like 3 guys caught up to him. Is his speed anything to be concerned about? Or was that just the camera angle?
fwiw: 4.48 speed at the combine
I've heard this story time and time again from John when talking about his speed: Saban told him if he can run better than a 4.5, he can go(enter the draft), if not, he should stay. Obviously he did what he did.
Other CBs:
Ghee, Brandon 4.45
Cook, Chris 4.46
Owusu-Ansah, Akwasi 4.47
Pender, David 4.47
Jackson, Kareem 4.48
McCourty, Devin 4.48
Thomas, Kevin 4.48
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TimeKiller
Guest
I think it's been pointed out that Felix Jones ran him down and he's quite fleet of foot. KJ may not have ridiculous top end speed but I think it's more than enough to cover. Also, he ran it back like....60 yards? If anyone is complaining about that let me issue you a tissue. Boody hoo. The criticism of KJ is starting to get a little nitpicky, seems like everyone is trying to find a way to get down on him instead of being happy for a 1st round rookie doing pretty well for himself.
No, not necessarily, BUT, signing an overpriced free agent to fill a need instead of filling that need in the draft IMO is, more often than not, the riskier move.
I could start with Albert Haynesworth and just reel off a string of names that prove my point. I know that there are rare exceptions, very rare, but signing free agents never live up to expectations. The Falcons are about to find that out with you know who.
It's the reason why I always have been, am right now, and forever in the future, against signing free agents.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
We did to date.
It should be stated that the Patriots also selected a CB in the first round.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
I am too for the most part. I can dig the Wade Smith type of FA's. Apparently the organization feels the same. They've stated numerous times that they build through the draft, which seems to fly over the heads of many fans.
BTW, you should hook up with 2nd honeymoon. That would be an intriguing conversation.
Jesus . . . do you want me to get banned?
Uhhh no, I do NOT think Lucky wants me to hook up with 2nd Honeymoon in any way, shape, or fashion.
In fairness to KJ, the guy who caught him was Felix Jones...
If he doesn't catch him, that's six points.
GP
Go Texans!
And you have to remember that KJ starts that run about 15 yards downfield of the LOS, and the RB for the Cowboys is near the LOS or maybe even 5 yards or so behind the LOS when KJ makes the pick. That's about a 15 or 20-yard "spot" for Felix Jones.
The other guys chasing KJ were not going to catch him. All they did was deny KJ a way to cut back in order to try and evade Felix Jones who was coming up on KJ.
Considering that the Cowboys were driving the field, then screwed up by having their Wr stone-hand the pass (which was not a well-thrown pass anyways, IIRC) and our rookie CB (who replaced Dunta Robinson, btw) has the presence of mind to use those tipped-ball drill skills to catch and secure the ball, and then raced 60-yards down the field, I feel that it was the best that was going to happen on that play.
I wanted a TD off it, but oh well. It crushed the Cowboys starters. It was the death knell, for sure. If they had some sort of spark trying to ignite them on that drive, it got doused by a torrential rain known as the Texans Defense.
Even Romo was showing his frustration and anger on the sideline interview where you could tell he was trying to watch his words carefully.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
I thought it was a great play by KJ. It wasn't just a tipped pass over the middle of the field and he was lucky to be there. Jackson was at that spot of the field on purpose (near the sideline at that). He was at the 1st down line meaning if Pollard misses the tackle, KJ would be in position to tackle the receiver short of the 1st down. Secondly, if Romo overthrew the ball or the ball was tipped, he was in the perfect spot to have an attempt on the interception.
Let's put it this way: If the receiver would have caught the ball and Pollard tackled him on the spot, KJ was exactly where he needed to be on the play. Probably would have gotten a "good job rookie" from the coaching staff in film session.
I'm not saying Jackson is so great and an instant pro bowler, I just don't think we should think he was lucky. Good players consistently put themselves in good positions, in the right spot to make a play. Many times nothing happens, but when the offense makes a mistake, the more times your in a good position the better chance you have at making that "lucky" play.
As Arnold Palmer said, "It's a funny thing, the more I practice the luckier I get."
Let's put it this way: If the receiver would have caught the ball and Pollard tackled him on the spot, KJ was exactly where he needed to be on the play. Probably would have gotten a "good job rookie" from the coaching staff in film session.
I'm not saying Jackson is so great and an instant pro bowler, I just don't think we should think he was lucky. Good players consistently put themselves in good positions, in the right spot to make a play. Many times nothing happens, but when the offense makes a mistake, the more times your in a good position the better chance you have at making that "lucky" play.
As Arnold Palmer said, "It's a funny thing, the more I practice the luckier I get."
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Game Highlights
Jackson's interception is at 2:25
Watch it a few times and look at where KJ was to make the play, then notice where Felix Jones was (#28) to make the tackle.
Jackson's interception is at 2:25
Watch it a few times and look at where KJ was to make the play, then notice where Felix Jones was (#28) to make the tackle.
Trash time? With the first team, against Romo. Not trash time. Ive heard nothing but good recently. He had a rough start, but what rookie doesn't with the gauntlet of WR's we have.
And when have we had DB's make picks off of tip balls. Way too often, those would go harmlessly to the ground.
Felix Jones is a track star. He is fast, and the only guy who caught KJ.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Kareem made a good pick on an easy pass, something that Dunta couldn't do against the Titans on MNF. So far I am happy with what I have seen of KJ.
GP
Go Texans!
Go to 1:57 and watch Foster bait the CB #20-something (lined up almost as a LB) into committing to the inside, then Foster bounces it to the right edge of our offensive line.
But what was really cool, though, was that Dreesen blocks his first man and then combos it into a block on that #20-something CB and shoves him backward and allows Foster to get into the end zone very easily.
The CB got abused twice on the same play. Ouch.
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
And when Jackson caught the ball on the 5 yard line, Felix was on the 25.
And when Jackson was at the 30 yard line, Felix was on the 35.
And when they were both even at the 40 yard line, it took Felix 25 yards to catch up and push Jackson out of bounds.
And when Jackson was at the 30 yard line, Felix was on the 35.
And when they were both even at the 40 yard line, it took Felix 25 yards to catch up and push Jackson out of bounds.
Bodden out for the year.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/31/pats-place-leigh-bodden-on-injured-reserve/
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/31/pats-place-leigh-bodden-on-injured-reserve/
