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Kiper Grade

J

Jackie Chiles

Veteran
For those that care he has us as the 8th best draft:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=5118576

Summary: Pick a position group and the Texans took a stab at finding a good player there. They got a solid corner to replace Dunta Robinson with Kareem Jackson at No. 19. A predictable, solid pick. Ben Tate looks even better as a value at No. 58 considering Minnesota traded up to get Toby Gerhart at No. 51, and given the struggles to hang onto the ball by Houston rushers last year, he figures to get a great look. Then there's players with promise all over. Darryl Sharpton could get a look on the inside of the 3-4 at linebacker, and Trindon Holliday could be the next Dante Hall. Even Dorin Dickerson way down at No. 227 has promise at tight end if he can add strength. Nothing amazing, but plenty of promise.
Draft grade: B
 
Jackie Chiles said:
For those that care he has us as the 8th best draft:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft10/insider/news/story?id=5118576

Summary: Pick a position group and the Texans took a stab at finding a good player there. They got a solid corner to replace Dunta Robinson with Kareem Jackson at No. 19. A predictable, solid pick. Ben Tate looks even better as a value at No. 58 considering Minnesota traded up to get Toby Gerhart at No. 51, and given the struggles to hang onto the ball by Houston rushers last year, he figures to get a great look. Then there's players with promise all over. Darryl Sharpton could get a look on the inside of the 3-4 at linebacker, and Trindon Holliday could be the next Dante Hall. Even Dorin Dickerson way down at No. 227 has promise at tight end if he can add strength. Nothing amazing, but plenty of promise.
Draft grade: B
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Amazing that he doesn't know we run a 4-3

And no mention of Mitchell? Didn't hear Kubiak's post-draft presser?

I'm actually surprised he has us so high. Not the norm for him. We didn't take any of his projected picks
 
JB said:
Amazing that he doesn't know we run a 4-3

And no mention of Mitchell? Didn't hear Kubiak's post-draft presser?

I'm actually surprised he has us so high. Not the norm for him. We didn't take any of his projected picks
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Also said Jackson was the 19th overall selection. No idea why he is talking 3-4. He actually had us as one of the top 5 drafts last year so he has been kind recently.

Insert obligatory these grades are meaningless rant here.
 
kiwitexansfan said:
Honestly, couldn't care less about what Kiper says.

What is he talking about Sharpton as a 3-4 backer for anyway?
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It's his jab, Sharpton is to slow to be a 4-3 WILL, he ran a low 4.8. ( that is more the sheet of a 3-4 LMB). In his scouting report he can not cover because they receiver just run away from him. He is a ST only at the NFL level. He will be the worse of the Texans picks and IMO he does not make the team out of training camp.
 
painekiller said:
It's his jab, Sharpton is to slow to be a 4-3 WILL, he ran a low 4.8. ( that is more the sheet of a 3-4 LMB). In his scouting report he can not cover because they receiver just run away from him. He is a ST only at the NFL level. He will be the worse of the Texans picks and IMO he does not make the team out of training camp.
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Everything I've read had him in the low 4.7s which isn't top notch by any means but its just as good if not a bit faster than Diles coming out. LB is more about instincts anyway and they obviously like Sharpton's. Anything is possible but I would bet my bottom dollar he makes the team.
 
Jackie Chiles said:
Everything I've read had him in the low 4.7s which isn't top notch by any means but its just as good if not a bit faster than Diles coming out. LB is more about instincts anyway and they obviously like Sharpton's. Anything is possible but I would bet my bottom dollar he makes the team.
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Agree. I think he is an immediate upgrade over Thompson, who has not contributed the last two years
 
ESPN had a draft special about an hour ago; McShay, Edwards, and Kiper were analyzing each team draft and McShay were giving out draft grades.

We received the best grade in the AFCS, getting a B overall. McShay were really hyping up Mitchell and Jackson. Loves Graham as well, thought he should've went higher. Said we got great value with Dickerson in the 7th. However, he thought Tate was a slight reach with our late second pick.

Seems like the media likes our draft every year since Kubiak been on board. Thought we were gonna get roasted for this draft though. Feels good to know talented, well-known analysts giving out good grades and high remarks for our draft yet again.
 
Nolan Nawrocki:

4 projected starters: A (Outstanding)
3 projected starters: B (Good)
2 projected starters: C (Average)
1 projected starter: D (Questionable)
0 projected starters: F (Poor)

Houston Texans
GM Rick Smith filled some pressing needs with the first three picks, landing two potential starters in Kareem Jackson and Ben Tate with his first two picks, both of whom fit the Texans' schemes perfectly. The team might have reached slightly in the next two rounds, but Earl Mitchell can have an impact as a nickel rusher and Darryl Sharpton value on special teams. Rounds 4-7 brought great upside, as TE Garrett Graham should benefit learning from fellow Wisconsin grad Owen Daniels. Sherrick McManis could provide versatility as a corner/safety. Shelley Smith fits the Texans' run game very well and has swing backup potential. Trindon Holliday could provide a spark in the return game, and Dorin Dickerson, drafted as a receiver, has upside to be groomed. Smith moved down the board several times, acquiring additional picks and landed nine rookies who could fend for roster spots, including three potential starters in the first three rounds. It may not appear flashy, but it was a productive draft, valuing intelligence and character, as he drafted very safely.
Grade: B-plus
 
asleep said:
Nolan Nawrocki:

4 projected starters: A (Outstanding)
3 projected starters: B (Good)
2 projected starters: C (Average)
1 projected starter: D (Questionable)
0 projected starters: F (Poor)

Houston Texans
GM Rick Smith filled some pressing needs with the first three picks, landing two potential starters in Kareem Jackson and Ben Tate with his first two picks, both of whom fit the Texans' schemes perfectly. The team might have reached slightly in the next two rounds, but Earl Mitchell can have an impact as a nickel rusher and Darryl Sharpton value on special teams. Rounds 4-7 brought great upside, as TE Garrett Graham should benefit learning from fellow Wisconsin grad Owen Daniels. Sherrick McManis could provide versatility as a corner/safety. Shelley Smith fits the Texans' run game very well and has swing backup potential. Trindon Holliday could provide a spark in the return game, and Dorin Dickerson, drafted as a receiver, has upside to be groomed. Smith moved down the board several times, acquiring additional picks and landed nine rookies who could fend for roster spots, including three potential starters in the first three rounds. It may not appear flashy, but it was a productive draft, valuing intelligence and character, as he drafted very safely.
Grade: B-plus
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Nice find! Thanks, I feel that is a pretty accurate assesment
 
By Rob Rang
NFLDraftScout.com


Houston Texas: B-

Many forecasted that the Texans would take a cornerback in the first round to replace free-agent defection Dunta Robinson, but the team surprised by adding Alabama's Kareem Jackson over other highly touted prospects. Jackson is a good fit for Houston's scheme. He possesses similar physicality in coverage and against the run that made Robinson a franchise player. RB Ben Tate (Auburn) gives the club the big back they've been chasing. He possesses enough lateral agility and explosiveness to jump ahead of Steve Slaton as the team's primary ball carrier. Defensive tackle Earl Mitchell (Arizona) was brought in to push former first-round pick Amobi Okoye. The Texans might be worried about Owen Daniels' rehabilitation from a torn ACL, electing to invest in undersized tight ends -- and pass-catching specialists -- Garrett Graham and Dorin Dickerson after picking James Casey last year.


...not sure how relevant this guy is?
 
Rd 1, Pick 20 (20) Jackson, Kareem CB
Rd 2, Pick 26 (58) Tate, Ben RB
Rd 3, Pick 17 (81) Mitchell, Earl DT
Rd 4, Pick 4 (102) Sharpton, Darryl LB
Rd 4, Pick 20 (118) Graham, Garrett TE
Rd 5, Pick 13 (144) McManis, Sherrick CB
Rd 6, Pick 18 (187) Smith, Shelley OG
Rd 6, Pick 28 (197) Holliday, Trindon KR
Rd 7, Pick 20 (227) Dickerson, Dorin TE

Team Needs: RB, CB, DT, FS, OLB

GRADE: A

Analysis: With the exception of finding a safety, the Texans filled all their needs, plus got tremendous value by landing tight end Dickerson in the final round who could become a very good receiver in the future. -- Daniel Wolf/Bleacher Report

fwiw
 
NFL Network's Mike Lombardi predicts that Texans second-round pick Ben Tate will contend for Offensive Rookie of the Year honors.

On NFLN's post-draft show Sunday night, Lombardi predicted that Tate will flirt with 1,500 yards. Lombardi had more to say about Tate in his Monday morning National Football Post column, calling the former Auburn Tiger "the right back for the Texans' system" in that "He has an ability to hit the hole with a burst and is a one-cut runner." The team won't count on anything from Steve Slaton (cervical fusion), leaving Tate with big-time statistical potential.
Source: National Football Post

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&line=172345&id=5742
 
asleep said:
NFL Network's Mike Lombardi predicts that Texans second-round pick Ben Tate will contend for Offensive Rookie of the Year honors.

On NFLN's post-draft show Sunday night, Lombardi predicted that Tate will flirt with 1,500 yards. Lombardi had more to say about Tate in his Monday morning National Football Post column, calling the former Auburn Tiger "the right back for the Texans' system" in that "He has an ability to hit the hole with a burst and is a one-cut runner." The team won't count on anything from Steve Slaton (cervical fusion), leaving Tate with big-time statistical potential.
Source: National Football Post

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&line=172345&id=5742
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I wonder how many local fantasy leagues select Tate in the early rounds this coming season?
 
asleep said:
Rd 1, Pick 20 (20) Jackson, Kareem CB
Rd 2, Pick 26 (58) Tate, Ben RB
Rd 3, Pick 17 (81) Mitchell, Earl DT
Rd 4, Pick 4 (102) Sharpton, Darryl LB
Rd 4, Pick 20 (118) Graham, Garrett TE
Rd 5, Pick 13 (144) McManis, Sherrick CB
Rd 6, Pick 18 (187) Smith, Shelley OG
Rd 6, Pick 28 (197) Holliday, Trindon KR
Rd 7, Pick 20 (227) Dickerson, Dorin TE

Team Needs: RB, CB, DT, FS, OLB

GRADE: A

Analysis: With the exception of finding a safety, the Texans filled all their needs, plus got tremendous value by landing tight end Dickerson in the final round who could become a very good receiver in the future. -- Daniel Wolf/Bleacher Report

fwiw
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I wonder how much this will change, if Sharpton eventually wins the WILL spot.

Don't get me wrong, I like Diles... I just think we have room for improvement, for a true WILL.
 
On NFLN's post-draft show Sunday night, Lombardi predicted that Tate will flirt with 1,500 yards.
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Only 5 rookie RBs have eclipsed 1500 yards in a season. One of them, Clinton Portis, did so in a Kubiak offense. So there.
 
Lucky said:
Only 5 rookie RBs have eclipsed 1500 yards in a season. One of them, Clinton Portis, did so in a Kubiak offense. So there.
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Portis was drafted round 2, overall pick 51.
Texans drafted tate round 2, overall pick 58.

Interestingly, Gerhart was chosen at 51.


When the Broncos selected Portis, they started a chain reaction that lead to the drafting of 2 other highly regarded RBs. Maurice Morris and Ladell bets were selected in the next few picks.

Similarly, when the Vikings selected Gerhart, it set off a chain reaction that resulted in the Texans and Browns quickly drafting the remaining highly regarded running backs: Tate and Hardesty.

Interesting.

Did we make t he right move?

Freaky
 
gtexan02 said:
Portis was drafted round 2, overall pick 51.
Texans drafted tate round 2, overall pick 58.

Interestingly, Gerhart was chosen at 51.


When the Broncos selected Portis, they started a chain reaction that lead to the drafting of 2 other highly regarded RBs. Maurice Morris and Ladell bets were selected in the next few picks.

Similarly, when the Vikings selected Gerhart, it set off a chain reaction that resulted in the Texans and Browns quickly drafting the remaining highly regarded running backs: Tate and Hardesty.

Interesting.

Did we make t he right move?

Freaky
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Another thing freaky is that Portis, while being selected at #51, was the 4th runningback taken in that draft - just like Gerhart.

Edit: Well... not including McCluster
 
asleep said:
NFL Network's Mike Lombardi predicts that Texans second-round pick Ben Tate will contend for Offensive Rookie of the Year honors.

On NFLN's post-draft show Sunday night, Lombardi predicted that Tate will flirt with 1,500 yards. Lombardi had more to say about Tate in his Monday morning National Football Post column, calling the former Auburn Tiger "the right back for the Texans' system" in that "He has an ability to hit the hole with a burst and is a one-cut runner." The team won't count on anything from Steve Slaton (cervical fusion), leaving Tate with big-time statistical potential.
Source: National Football Post

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&line=172345&id=5742
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Who was the guy on ESPN, when we selected Tate, that said "I don't know about this pick here. Isn't it going to be a crowded backfield in Houston? Steve Slaton, and then Arian Foster seeig lots of snaps at the end there?"

I was laughing OUT LOUD. "Yeah, it's a really crowded backfield when Steve Slaton just had a surgery on his neck, Moats fumbled his chances away, Chris Brown was a joke, and Arian Foster played in like 2 games at the end. Yeah, it's amazingly competitive and our team is STACKED at running back! Buffoon."

I hate it when some media guy just has to take the opposite stance so that he can get a reaction and some face time on camera.

Tate is going to be the all-purpose back. Foster comes in as a change-of-pace back on 3rd downs or to spell Tate when he's tired. We're going to trot out Tate, Foster, and Moats. Holliday will be the emergency running back if we suffer too many RB injuries.

Bank on it. Oh, we might bring in a couple of camp bodies at RB...but they won't compete (in the true sense of the word) with Tate and Foster. Slaton will try to squeak back into the lineup, and not sure how it turns out for him once the dust settles on 2010. But it doesn't look good. The NFL passes you by THAT quickly. And with no regard for feelings or emotions.
 
Slaton is trade bait. I called it first.

He had a good enough rookie year that some team out there will want to see if they can capture lightning in a bottle again. We should leverage that speculative mindset that other teams seem to have on guys like Slaton.

I think we could get comparable value for him. We won't get the moon, but we would move him off our team and get at least a 3rd (maybe a 2nd) for him. That beats watching him stand on the sideline and pout because things didn't go his way.

I know a lot of you think we're going to team Slaton and Tate together. I just don't think Slaton is going to recover from the fumbling, the neck issue, and not being "the man" anymore.
 
GP said:
Slaton is trade bait. I called it first.

He had a good enough rookie year that some team out there will want to see if they can capture lightning in a bottle again. We should leverage that speculative mindset that other teams seem to have on guys like Slaton.

I think we could get comparable value for him. We won't get the moon, but we would move him off our team and get at least a 3rd (maybe a 2nd) for him. That beats watching him stand on the sideline and pout because things didn't go his way.

I know a lot of you think we're going to team Slaton and Tate together. I just don't think Slaton is going to recover from the fumbling, the neck issue, and not being "the man" anymore.
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Who in their right mind would give up a 2nd round pick for a back who has fumbling issues and a possible career ending neck injury? Guys like Campbell (starting QB) went for a 5th. No way do we get a 2nd or 3rd for Slaton
 
GP said:
Tate is going to be the all-purpose back. Foster comes in as a change-of-pace back on 3rd downs or to spell Tate when he's tired. We're going to trot out Tate, Foster, and Moats. Holliday will be the emergency running back if we suffer too many RB injuries.
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I like Moats, but I don't think he'll be here in the Preseason. Jerimiah Johnson or Chris Henry will most likely take that spot.
 
GP said:
Slaton is trade bait. I called it first.

He had a good enough rookie year that some team out there will want to see if they can capture lightning in a bottle again. We should leverage that speculative mindset that other teams seem to have on guys like Slaton.

I think we could get comparable value for him. We won't get the moon, but we would move him off our team and get at least a 3rd (maybe a 2nd) for him. That beats watching him stand on the sideline and pout because things didn't go his way.

I know a lot of you think we're going to team Slaton and Tate together. I just don't think Slaton is going to recover from the fumbling, the neck issue, and not being "the man" anymore.
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Only way I see getting that kind of pick from him is if some big RB goes down early and a team is willing to pay that price out of duress. I can't imagine an RB with a recent neck surgery would go for that high unless Slaton is putting up good numbers in a back-up role.

EDIT: I say "big RB" as in a #1 where the backup is not of Slatons caliber.
 
No way they trade Slaton, but even in the very unlikely event they did, they wouldn't get close to a 3rd much less a 2nd. Slaton will be the primary backup and split touches with Tate UNLESS injury status dictates othwerwise. I see Foster as guy #3, and Moats, J. Johnson, et al battle for the 4th spot, but my guess is Moats has the inside track.
 
I am hoping that Slaton comes back healthy with an attitude he has something to prove. Last thing I read from him was he had dropped back to his original weight from year one. I think the article said he had bulked up a bit tp get stronger.
 
dont subscribe to insider but it's pretty hard to muff this draft given the depth of talent, one would assume a team with two high first rounders to get high marks. I think he should focus more on teams who work the draft with less firepower, those who are most creative & make the impossible possible. every year New England does some shrewd manuevers, really proud of Texans who I feel learned a hard lesson in last years draft (not able to address RB position) making the trade back up cost a 5th (next year) to get Tate but the risk reward was certainly justified. the Texans should get bonus points for improving how they work the draft boards, as their record improves & they pick later its key to maximize value/needs via draft :clap:
 
beerlover said:
dont subscribe to insider but it's pretty hard to muff this draft given the depth of talent, one would assume a team with two high first rounders to get high marks. I think he should focus more on teams who work the draft with less firepower, those who are most creative & make the impossible possible. every year New England does some shrewd manuevers, really proud of Texans who I feel learned a hard lesson in last years draft (not able to address RB position) making the trade back up cost a 5th (next year) to get Tate but the risk reward was certainly justified. the Texans should get bonus points for improving how they work the draft boards, as their record improves & they pick later its key to maximize value/needs via draft :clap:
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Totally agree with you... except the 5th was this year not next year
 
JB said:
Totally agree with you... except the 5th was this year not next year
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even better. forgot when Texans traded the extra 3rd (#93 aquired from Vikings) to Kansas City Chiefs it was actually a lower 5th then they used to trade with New England (144th overall) & fourth-round pick (102nd overall). Which puts exclamation point on how they were able to work the draft to draft 9 quality players instead of 8 without giving up any future picks.
 
GP said:
Who was the guy on ESPN, when we selected Tate, that said "I don't know about this pick here. Isn't it going to be a crowded backfield in Houston? Steve Slaton, and then Arian Foster seeig lots of snaps at the end there?"

I was laughing OUT LOUD. "Yeah, it's a really crowded backfield when Steve Slaton just had a surgery on his neck, Moats fumbled his chances away, Chris Brown was a joke, and Arian Foster played in like 2 games at the end. Yeah, it's amazingly competitive and our team is STACKED at running back! Buffoon."

I hate it when some media guy just has to take the opposite stance so that he can get a reaction and some face time on camera.
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Tom Waddle - Part-time Analyst, Full-time Fool
 
Kiper also gave the Detroit Lions an "A-" after the draft where they selected Roy Williams and Kevin Jones.. Yep, that's right, an "A" for Matt Millen.
 
beerlover said:
even better. forgot when Texans traded the extra 3rd (#93 aquired from Vikings) to Kansas City Chiefs it was actually a lower 5th then they used to trade with New England (144th overall) & fourth-round pick (102nd overall). Which puts exclamation point on how they were able to work the draft to draft 9 quality players instead of 8 without giving up any future picks.
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Aren't we owed like a 3rd round next year for losing DRob ?
 
beerlover said:
the Texans have a good shot if he performs up to expectations.
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The whole comp pick thing seems to have more alchemy to it than reason, but I think the major component is the amount of salary differential that revolves around the lost player vs. the acquired player(s). More differential would mean in the calculation that you must have lost a better player than you gained and if it is a wide margin the higher the pick based on the margin differential. I don't think how they perform enters in to it. Could be wrong, just don't remember that a one of the components.
 
edo783 said:
The whole comp pick thing seems to have more alchemy to it than reason, but I think the major component is the amount of salary differential that revolves around the lost player vs. the acquired player(s). More differential would mean in the calculation that you must have lost a better player than you gained and if it is a wide margin the higher the pick based on the margin differential. I don't think how they perform enters in to it. Could be wrong, just don't remember that a one of the components.
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The way I understand it is compensatory picks are determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor. Dunta has the salary comenserate with a 3rd grade, he just needs to live up to his billing & everything will be fine, the Texans will receive a compenstory 3rd, however if he tears his knee again both sides would be crying :crying:
 
krocket said:
Aren't we owed like a 3rd round next year for losing DRob ?
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beerlover said:
The way I understand it is compensatory picks are determined by a proprietary formula based on the player's salary, playing time, and postseason honors with his new team, with salary being the primary factor.
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Not exactly. The primary determination regarding compensatory picks is net qualified free agents lost. Currently, the Texans have gained as many free agents (Wade Smith, Rackers) as lost (Dunta, Grossman). If all of these players make the opening day rosters, the Texans would not be due a compensatory pick. Except that the value lost (Dunta) is much greater than the value received. Thus, the Texans could/should be in line for a 7th round net value selection.

If Kris Brown were to beat out Rackers, that would give the Texans a net 1 in free agents lost, garnering them a likely 3rd round compensatory pick. If Rackers beats out Brown, and Grossman doesn't make the Redskins (or his salary is so low he doesn't become a qualified free agent), the Texans will get zip in compensatory picks.
 
Lucky said:
Not exactly. The primary determination regarding compensatory picks is net qualified free agents lost. Currently, the Texans have gained as many free agents (Wade Smith, Rackers) as lost (Dunta, Grossman). If all of these players make the opening day rosters, the Texans would not be due a compensatory pick. Except that the value lost (Dunta) is much greater than the value received. Thus, the Texans could/should be in line for a 7th round net value selection.

If Kris Brown were to beat out Rackers, that would give the Texans a net 1 in free agents lost, garnering them a likely 3rd round compensatory pick. If Rackers beats out Brown, and Grossman doesn't make the Redskins (or his salary is so low he doesn't become a qualified free agent), the Texans will get zip in compensatory picks.
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Really? This comp. stuff seems so voodoo to me. I feel pretty confident that the Texans get something from DRob. I mean, Smith wont be a starter (probably). Rackers may not beat out Brown. And even so, a kicker and a backup guard do not measure up to a starting CB with a ridiculous contract.
 
rmartin65 said:
Really?
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Really. This blog by the compensatory draft pick internet guru, AdamJT13, explains it best:

AdamJT13 said:
As the NFL explains, compensatory picks are awarded to teams that lose more or better compensatory free agents than they acquire. The number of picks a team can receive equals the net loss of compensatory free agents, up to a maximum of four. Compensatory free agents are determined by a secret formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. Not every free agent lost or signed is covered by the formula.

Each qualifying player has a value based on his contract, playing time and postseason honors, and that value corresponds to a round in the draft. In the compensatory equation, each qualifying player that a team signs cancels out a qualifying player that the team lost whose value is the highest in the same round. If there are no lost players remaining in that round, the signed player cancels out the lost player whose value is the next-highest. A signed player will cancel out a lost player whose value falls in a higher round only if there are no remaining lost players. After all of a team's qualifying signed players have canceled out a lost player, the team can receive a comp pick for each qualifying player who remains. For example, consider a team that loses one qualifying player whose value falls in the third round and another qualifying player whose value falls in the sixth round but signs a qualifying player whose value falls in the third round. That team would receive a sixth-round comp pick because the signed player would cancel out the loss of the higher-valued player. If the signed player’s value were equal to a fourth-round pick or lower, however, the team would receive a third-round comp pick, because the signed player would cancel out the loss of the lower-valued player.


It is possible for a team to get a compensatory pick even if it doesn’t suffer a net loss of qualifying free agents. That type of comp pick comes at the end of the seventh round, after the normal comp picks and before the non-compensatory picks that are added if fewer than 32 comp picks are awarded. There have been 14 of these “net value” type of comp picks awarded, and in each case, the combined value of the free agents lost was significantly higher than the combined value of the free agents added. In all 14 cases, those teams lost the same number of qualifying free agents as they signed. No team has been awarded a comp pick after signing more qualifying free agents than it lost, no matter how significant the difference in combined value.
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First, I would be surprised if Wade Smith doesn't earn a starting job. His contract is not huge, but it's not a contract a backup receives, either. It would fall in the range of a 6th round compensatory pick for the Chiefs. Rackers' contract would drop into the slot of a 7th round pick. The real question is if Grossman's contract will make him a qualified free agent. Terms have not been reported, and it may be for only the vet minimum. If Grossman's contract is too low to qualify (and both Smith and Rackers make the Texans opening day roster), the Texans get jack in terms of compensatory picks.
 
Lucky said:
Really. This blog by the compensatory draft pick internet guru, AdamJT13, explains it best:



First, I would be surprised if Wade Smith doesn't earn a starting job. His contract is not huge, but it's not a contract a backup receives, either. It would fall in the range of a 6th round compensatory pick for the Chiefs. Rackers' contract would drop into the slot of a 7th round pick. The real question is if Grossman's contract will make him a qualified free agent. Terms have not been reported, and it may be for only the vet minimum. If Grossman's contract is too low to qualify (and both Smith and Rackers make the Texans opening day roster), the Texans get jack in terms of compensatory picks.
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Thanks for that. Hmm, I was right earlier, this stuff is some serious voodoo.
 
Lucky said:
Really. This blog by the compensatory draft pick internet guru, AdamJT13, explains it best:



First, I would be surprised if Wade Smith doesn't earn a starting job. His contract is not huge, but it's not a contract a backup receives, either. It would fall in the range of a 6th round compensatory pick for the Chiefs. Rackers' contract would drop into the slot of a 7th round pick. The real question is if Grossman's contract will make him a qualified free agent. Terms have not been reported, and it may be for only the vet minimum. If Grossman's contract is too low to qualify (and both Smith and Rackers make the Texans opening day roster), the Texans get jack in terms of compensatory picks.
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excellent find, as it also states
Although the formula has never been revealed, by studying the compensatory picks that have been awarded since they began in 1994, I’ve determined that the primary factor in the value of the picks awarded is the average annual value of the contract the player signed with his new team, with an adjustment for playing time and a smaller adjustment for postseason honors. It should be noted that the contract value used in the equation does not include some parts of the contract, and that the contract information reported in the media is often incorrect.
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hard to imagine Texans get jack for losing the highest paid free agent @ his position, unless like I suggested he bombs. no way a combination of Wade & Rackers cancels him out. Texans also lost other free agents like Pitts, Busing, Salaam & Ferguson to name a few don't the same rules apply to them too?
 
beerlover said:
excellent find, as it also states

hard to imagine Texans get jack for losing the highest paid free agent @ his position, unless like I suggested he bombs. no way a combination of Wade & Rackers cancels him out. Texans also lost other free agents like Pitts, Busing, Salaam & Ferguson to name a few don't the same rules apply to them too?
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Even if he bombs, he's going to get a lot of playing time in his first year there - and that's the only year that matters (as far as determining compensatory picks go). Plus, it's pretty much a given that his contract is big - even if the accuracy of the reported terms can't be taken for granted.

As far as the remaining UFA's you listed, they don't count unless (at a minimum) they get signed by somebody - and thus far, none of them have. There may also be other criteria for them to qualify (Lucky previously mentioned the minimum salary necessary), but since none of them have even signed to this point, the rest of the formula is moot.
 
beerlover said:
hard to imagine Texans get jack for losing the highest paid free agent @ his position, unless like I suggested he bombs. no way a combination of Wade & Rackers cancels him out. Texans also lost other free agents like Pitts, Busing, Salaam & Ferguson to name a few don't the same rules apply to them too?
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Here's the part that you are confused with:

the primary factor in the value of the picks awarded is the average annual value of the contract the player signed with his new team, with an adjustment for playing time and a smaller adjustment for postseason honors.
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He's discussing the determination of the value of the compensatory pick (which round the pick falls in). Not whether a pick is awarded. That is clearly stated in this section:

As the NFL explains, compensatory picks are awarded to teams that lose more or better compensatory free agents than they acquire. The number of picks a team can receive equals the net loss of compensatory free agents, up to a maximum of four.
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If the Texans have a net loss of zero qualified free agents, they are due zero compensatory picks. They should, however, qualify for a net value compensatory pick, which falls in the 7th round. But if the Texans have a gain of qualified free agents this offseason, they would receive no compensatory selections, whatsoever.

Pitts, Busing, Salaam & Ferguson have not signed with another team, as of yet. There's also a "free agency" period, where if these players sign afterward, they are not included in the compensation equation.

In order to qualify for the comp equation, a player must have been a true Unrestricted Free Agent whose contract had expired or was voided after the previous season (i.e., he cannot have been released by his old team); he must sign during the UFA signing period (which ended July 27 last year); if he signs after June 1, he must have been tendered a June 1 qualifying offer by his old team; his compensatory value or contract value must be above a specific minimum amount; and he cannot have been permanently released by his new team before a certain point in the season (which seems to be after Week 10) or, possibly, before getting a certain amount of playing time, unless he was claimed off waivers by another team.
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So the players you mentioned must sign before a certain date. That date could come as early as June 1, if the Texans did not tend these players a qualifying offer. My guess is if they had tendered a qualifying offer, these players (other than perhaps Pitts) would have already signed with the Texans. It's very unlikely these players play into the compensation equation. Pitts may not yet have medical clearance to sign.

It boils down the the Texans possibly receiving a 7th round pick. Or a 3rd, if Rackers loses the kicking job. Or zip, if Grossman didn't sign for enough money. No matter how hard it is to imagine.
 
Lucky said:
Here's the part that you are confused with:


He's discussing the determination of the value of the compensatory pick (which round the pick falls in). Not whether a pick is awarded. That is clearly stated in this section:


If the Texans have a net loss of zero qualified free agents, they are due zero compensatory picks. They should, however, qualify for a net value compensatory pick, which falls in the 7th round. But if the Texans have a gain of qualified free agents this offseason, they would receive no compensatory selections, whatsoever.

Pitts, Busing, Salaam & Ferguson have not signed with another team, as of yet. There's also a "free agency" period, where if these players sign afterward, they are not included in the compensation equation.


So the players you mentioned must sign before a certain date. That date could come as early as June 1, if the Texans did not tend these players a qualifying offer. My guess is if they had tendered a qualifying offer, these players (other than perhaps Pitts) would have already signed with the Texans. It's very unlikely these players play into the compensation equation. Pitts may not yet have medical clearance to sign.

It boils down the the Texans possibly receiving a 7th round pick. Or a 3rd, if Rackers loses the kicking job. Or zip, if Grossman didn't sign for enough money. No matter how hard it is to imagine.
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:drunk:
 
Here is my thinking. We got rid of DR, but we do our best to make our team better. We do not let Kris Brown win the starting job over Rackers simply becuase we want an extra 6th round pick. If Smith is good enough to start, let him. If Rackers wins the job: awesome!

I say we do our best to improve our team and let the chips fall where they may.
 
Lucky said:
Really. This blog by the compensatory draft pick internet guru, AdamJT13, explains it best:



First, I would be surprised if Wade Smith doesn't earn a starting job. His contract is not huge, but it's not a contract a backup receives, either. It would fall in the range of a 6th round compensatory pick for the Chiefs. Rackers' contract would drop into the slot of a 7th round pick. The real question is if Grossman's contract will make him a qualified free agent. Terms have not been reported, and it may be for only the vet minimum. If Grossman's contract is too low to qualify (and both Smith and Rackers make the Texans opening day roster), the Texans get jack in terms of compensatory picks.
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You are correct Lucky. The link you posted is the best explanation I have of compensatory picks which is a quagmire I choose not to wade in often. I found AdamJT13 about three months ago but still had to read it a few times. I doubt we get much of anything.
 
awtysst said:
Here is my thinking. We got rid of DR, but we do our best to make our team better. We do not let Kris Brown win the starting job over Rackers simply becuase we want an extra 6th round pick. If Smith is good enough to start, let him. If Rackers wins the job: awesome!

I say we do our best to improve our team and let the chips fall where they may.
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Exactly. If we try and get too fancy it can really screw us up. I'm all for getting draft picks, don't get me wrong. We don't know who's going to be better: Brown or Rackers? If we choose Rackers so we can get a freaking 6th round draft pick but he makes us lose 1 more game than Brown would.... is that worth it? As much as I want an extra draft picks or 4.... I'd rather Smith and Kubiak focus on fielding the best possible team for the 2010 season b/c its we're in win mode NOW.
 
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