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An interesting STAT for the Texans progress

euro-Texan

Rookie
It seems like everyone is pretty glum about the "what could have beens". but I found an intersting stat by adding the point totals over the last few seasons. While we have yet to have our Texans play to OUR expectations, they will make a milestone Sunday (unless they loose by 49 points) by completing a season for the first time with a point differential in the black. I call that progress and moving in the right direction.

Point differential
2009 +48 (so far)
2008 -28
2007 -05
2006 -99
2005 -171
2004 -30
2003 -125
2002 -143
 
If they only used point differential as the determining factor on who makes the playoffs then you might be on to something.
 
More stats?

Yawn.

I did a quick calculation of how much I've spent on this team as a season ticket holder. Those stats nearly made me cry.
 
If they only used point differential as the determining factor on who makes the playoffs then you might be on to something.

We both know this teams isn't going to the superbowl. Did anyone predict that? Hell know. My point is we are moving in the right direction. Even in our previous 8-8 seasons we suffered some major asskickings. This year we delt more than we recieved for the first time EVER!
 
It seems like everyone is pretty glum about the "what could have beens". but I found an intersting stat by adding the point totals over the last few seasons. While we have yet to have our Texans play to OUR expectations, they will make a milestone Sunday (unless they loose by 49 points) by completing a season for the first time with a point differential in the black. I call that progress and moving in the right direction.

Point differential
2009 +48 (so far)
2008 -28
2007 -05
2006 -99
2005 -171
2004 -30
2003 -125
2002 -143

I, for one, think that's pretty significant. Thanks for pointing that out.
 
This was one of my requirements for backing Kubes for another year.

If we win this week, and have a + net points I think we're over the dreaded hump.
 
Hey, maybe I can dismiss indicative stats just so I can act like toughguy-sports-realist. "Stats are for losers! Grrrr!"

We get it, guys. You're realists. We know stats don't mean everything, but thanks for contributing.

I'd like to point out that these stats do mean the team is moving in the right direction regarding red zone production and defense, which might matter to an owner who needs to decide whether or not to keep his current head coach.

Let me preempt your response: "Winning or losing is all that McNair needs to look at! Grrrr!" I'll preempt that by saying maybe you should go start another "FIRE _______!!!1!" thread.
 
Those stats indicate this is the BEST LOOKING 8-8 team in the NFL.
Let's see if they change that on Sunday.
 
Hey, maybe I can dismiss indicative stats just so I can act like toughguy-sports-realist. "Stats are for losers! Grrrr!"

We get it, guys. You're realists. We know stats don't mean everything, but thanks for contributing.

I'd like to point out that these stats do mean the team is moving in the right direction regarding red zone production and defense, which might matter to an owner who needs to decide whether or not to keep his current head coach.

Let me preempt your response: "Winning or losing is all that McNair needs to look at! Grrrr!" I'll preempt that by saying maybe you should go start another "FIRE _______!!!1!" thread.

Indicative stats my ass.

What a pretentious, smug, piece of **** response. So, you think you're better than us because you like medocrity and refuse to say anything bad about the home team? That's all good. But I disagree.

We can all agree to disagree. But at least be a man and back up how you feel with facts. Don't be a jerk.

And, for the record, yes, stats are, indeed for losers. All that counts are W's. You have not given us any argument to counter that claim.

Period.
 
You're the one saying stats are not important.

According to you counting "W"s is for losers.

LOL!!!

Ah, Goat. You are good, my friend.

As a sports fan, you know as well as I do that end results are all that matters. We can be first in every statistic in the book, but if we don't have the W's, it somewhat waters it down a bit.

I don't completely disregard individual stats. Matt Schaub has had such an amazing year that it blows me away. We have a freaking top shelf quarterback. But even then, it would have been nice to get a few more wins to really give him the national attention he truly deserves. That's a case of, 'The stats are great, but a few more wins would have been even better.'
 
Hey, maybe I can dismiss indicative stats just so I can act like toughguy-sports-realist. "Stats are for losers! Grrrr!"

We get it, guys. You're realists. We know stats don't mean everything, but thanks for contributing.

I'd like to point out that these stats do mean the team is moving in the right direction regarding red zone production and defense, which might matter to an owner who needs to decide whether or not to keep his current head coach.

Let me preempt your response: "Winning or losing is all that McNair needs to look at! Grrrr!" I'll preempt that by saying maybe you should go start another "FIRE _______!!!1!" thread.

Post of the day!

Not that I'm keeping track, that could be used for statistics later ;)
 
So if we get beat by 48 we would be at 0, that would go good with our 8-8!

But, we are not going to lose so this is Forward progress! Good Stat
 
It is a nice stat, however, it should only be given credit to Kubiak if he had included it in his 2009 plan as a KPI. If not, it is a nice stat, but a meaningless one in the retention debate of he and his staff IMO.
 
Hey, maybe I can dismiss indicative stats just so I can act like toughguy-sports-realist. "Stats are for losers! Grrrr!"

We get it, guys. You're realists. We know stats don't mean everything, but thanks for contributing.

I'd like to point out that these stats do mean the team is moving in the right direction regarding red zone production and defense, which might matter to an owner who needs to decide whether or not to keep his current head coach.

Let me preempt your response: "Winning or losing is all that McNair needs to look at! Grrrr!" I'll preempt that by saying maybe you should go start another "FIRE _______!!!1!" thread.

Repped!!!

Hilarious; "Grrr!!"
 
And, for the record, yes, stats are, indeed for losers. All that counts are W's. You have not given us any argument to counter that claim.

Period.

I agree with you that you are what you are, in terms of record. But I really think that the "stats are for losers" argument was invented by poorly performing players (a la Trent Dilfer as that's his favorite phrase) to excuse their terrible play on a team that won pretty much in spite of them.

You can't argue that a 4,000 yard passer puts you in a position to win.

You can't argue that a 1,600 yard rusher puts you in a position to win.

You can't argue that leading the league in interceptions, sacks and fumbles puts you in a position to win.

These are all stats. They are not the end-all-be-all, but nobody is saying they are. They're signs of production and progress. If stats were for losers, then coaches wouldn't analyze them to find out how to improve those numbers.

Stats = production = W's. We haven't reaped the benefit of those W's, but I'll explain why at the bottom.


LOL!!!
I don't completely disregard individual stats. Matt Schaub has had such an amazing year that it blows me away. We have a freaking top shelf quarterback. But even then, it would have been nice to get a few more wins to really give him the national attention he truly deserves. That's a case of, 'The stats are great, but a few more wins would have been even better.'

I love Matt. I think he's the guy for us. But while he's producing at a high level for us, he's not coming through in the clutch yet consistently. He throw pick 6's during a two-minute drill to win the game. He fails to pick up the proper mike on blitzing plays sometimes. He still holds on to the ball too long. I'm confident that these things will be fixed, but that is why he's not there yet.

There is no running game, as we're all aware of. The old saying goes "you run to win the game", and whether or not that is true, it certainly highlights why we can't hold on to leads. There is no production here. I think we're on pace to finish the season without a single RB over 450 yards rushing. This stat alone tells you how poorly we're playing. I'm still not convinced we have all of the talent we need to be truly competitive. Unfortunately, Matt is no Peyton, who can win regardless of the talent around him (with the exception of an o-line, without that he's toast).

You say that stats are for losers and all that counts are W/L's. But I point to you our rushing stats and show you that this is a stat that shows why we're so high in the L column.

I agree that skewed stats (a la "the Colts have won so many consecutive regular season games yet they lost last postseason, but streak continues...or "Brett Favre has a " " passer rating in games played below whatever temperature) are meaningless and only serve as an interesting side-note to how the player/team might perform. But some stats truly are indicative of the W's and L's. We are what we are in terms of our record, but there are some telling stats that can point out why we are.
 
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If they only used point differential as the determining factor on who makes the playoffs then you might be on to something.

I think he's on to something big time. It means for the first time in this teams history we have a lagit defense to go along with a potent offense. This will translate in to more wins as well as future trips to the playoffs.

Onward and Upward!
 
I, for one, think that's pretty significant. Thanks for pointing that out.

significant?

IT's down right pathetic. That is a huge, huge difference between the Capers & Kubiak years. I knew we weren't very good that first 4 years, but to come in & reduce the point differential by 80 points while retooling... & not even coming close to the 160s where we used to live is amazing. I think anyway.

I don't have the stats to back it up, but this definitely supports my belief that we are better simply for the fact that when we turn the ball over, & we've done that alot over the years... it used to be a guaranteed score for the other team. Now, not so much. We have a defense that can force a 3 & out like nobodies business.

We also used to turn the ball over multiple times, if we turned it over once. Remember that Cowboy game? An Int led to a fumbled kick return, then another Int, & another fumble...

We used to look like the Keystone Cops.... now we look like a football team.
 
Point differential won't tell us if we're "over the hump" or if we've "turned the corner." If we beat the Patriots' starters, then we've got something going. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
 
I think this matters more than some of us want to admit, but if we lose next Sunday (even by a single point) I'm not gonna care at all...
 
Here's some stats:

2009 = mediocrity
2008 = mediocrity
2007 = mediocrity


How about this:

2002 = Just Happy To Have Football but crap
2003 = Crap
2004 = Average
2005 = Unbelievable Crap
2006 = improving Crap
2007 = Average
2008 = Average
2009 = Possibly slightly above Average

I dislike the word "mediocrity" because it doesn't imply 8-8. Mediocre has two basic definitions: average and poor. So when you say something is "mediocre", it's not clear what you mean but there's a strong implication of being substandard. 8-8 isn't poor. 8-8 isn't substandard. 8-8 is average. Average isn't poor.

To call 8-8 "mediocre" strikes me as intellectually dishonest. To call 9-7 "mediocre" is even worse than that.
 
I agree with you that you are what you are, in terms of record. But I really think that the "stats are for losers" argument was invented by poorly performing players (a la Trent Dilfer as that's his favorite phrase) to excuse their terrible play on a team that won pretty much in spite of them.

You can't argue that a 4,000 yard passer puts you in a position to win.

You can't argue that a 1,600 yard rusher puts you in a position to win.

You can't argue that leading the league in interceptions, sacks and fumbles puts you in a position to win.

These are all stats. They are not the end-all-be-all, but nobody is saying they are. They're signs of production and progress. If stats were for losers, then coaches wouldn't analyze them to find out how to improve those numbers.

Stats = production = W's. We haven't reaped the benefit of those W's, but I'll explain why at the bottom.




I love Matt. I think he's the guy for us. But while he's producing at a high level for us, he's not coming through in the clutch yet consistently. He throw pick 6's during a two-minute drill to win the game. He fails to pick up the proper mike on blitzing plays sometimes. He still holds on to the ball too long. I'm confident that these things will be fixed, but that is why he's not there yet.

There is no running game, as we're all aware of. The old saying goes "you run to win the game", and whether or not that is true, it certainly highlights why we can't hold on to leads. There is no production here. I think we're on pace to finish the season without a single RB over 450 yards rushing. This stat alone tells you how poorly we're playing. I'm still not convinced we have all of the talent we need to be truly competitive. Unfortunately, Matt is no Peyton, who can win regardless of the talent around him (with the exception of an o-line, without that he's toast).

You say that stats are for losers and all that counts are W/L's. But I point to you our rushing stats and show you that this is a stat that shows why we're so high in the L column.

I agree that skewed stats (a la "the Colts have won so many consecutive regular season games yet they lost last postseason, but streak continues...or "Brett Favre has a " " passer rating in games played below whatever temperature) are meaningless and only serve as an interesting side-note to how the player/team might perform. But some stats truly are indicative of the W's and L's. We are what we are in terms of our record, but there are some telling stats that can point out why we are.

Fair points all around. You are correct that stats can help us peel back the curtan to get more context. I just don't want to see people happy with just stats. We need to happy with the w's.

Again, great post and counter to my argument.
 
Indicative stats my ass.

What a pretentious, smug, piece of **** response. So, you think you're better than us because you like medocrity and refuse to say anything bad about the home team? That's all good. But I disagree.

We can all agree to disagree. But at least be a man and back up how you feel with facts. Don't be a jerk.

And, for the record, yes, stats are, indeed for losers. All that counts are W's. You have not given us any argument to counter that claim.

Period.

Why yes, I am better than you, but that's because I'm better than most people. Loving mediocrity has nothing to do with it.

I'll cut you some slack because you're a season ticket holder, and I do sympathize with expecting value for your money. But one thing that has to be acknowledged is that this team is still transitioning away from a period with a TRAGICALLY bad GM. The house had to be rebuilt from the foundation, and no old materials were re-used except two positions.

"But it shouldn't take anyone four years!"

Maybe, maybe not. There's no gold standard on that, especially on a team with this many young players.

Not every team can be the 2008 Dolphins. Turning this team around is like turning the Titanic in a bathtub... Or like teaching basic algebra to Travis Johnson. It's going to take a few years.

So during the transition, we need some indicators showing that we're getting closer to the goal. I believe this stat is a good one.
 
In the context of a coaching discussion, it turns out the 2009 Dolphins couldn't be the 2008 Dolphins and that was more about Pennington.

And it turns out the 2009 Ravens couldn't be the 2008 Ravens again either. Neither could the 2009 Falcons be the 2008 Falcons again.
 
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In the context of a coaching discussion, it turns out the 2009 Dolphins couldn't be the 2008 Dolphins and that was more about Pennington.

And Pennington's biggest assetts were his intangibles. Leadership, determination & tenacity.
 
Why yes, I am better than you, but that's because I'm better than most people. Loving mediocrity has nothing to do with it.

I'll cut you some slack because you're a season ticket holder, and I do sympathize with expecting value for your money. But one thing that has to be acknowledged is that this team is still transitioning away from a period with a TRAGICALLY bad GM. The house had to be rebuilt from the foundation, and no old materials were re-used except two positions.

"But it shouldn't take anyone four years!"

Maybe, maybe not. There's no gold standard on that, especially on a team with this many young players.

Not every team can be the 2008 Dolphins. Turning this team around is like turning the Titanic in a bathtub... Or like teaching basic algebra to Travis Johnson. It's going to take a few years.

So during the transition, we need some indicators showing that we're getting closer to the goal. I believe this stat is a good one.

Thanks for the response. And happy new year, bro.

I agree with your comments about the Casserly era. At first, I thought blaming Casserly was a cop out. But, after looking at it deeper a few months ago, I realized that Casserly's choices really did hurt this team, and we're still dealing with those issues right now.

However, I think you may be misunderstanding my point. I don't expect the 2008 Dolphins. But you have to look at the 2009 New Orleans Saints. No, I'm not expecting the same level of performance they had this year.

But, come on: Sean Payton and Gary Kubiak were hired within weeks of each other. We should be farther along than we are right now. Four years in, 11 wins aren't that much to ask for. At least not from a team as talented as this one.

It's not about me being a season ticket holder. Fans are fans, season ticket holders or not. We should ALL have high standards for this team.
 
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It's just sad that with all the excuse making going on here, the only thing
we have to look forward to is the SAME putrid performance in the AFC South,
and a ONE GAME IMPROVEMENT in "just" THREE YEARS.

We gotta hear how much better this team is than their record, yet their
record is potentially ONE GAME of improvement from the last two years.
At this rate, Kubiak will be in season 10, before we're championship caliber.
 
I agree with your comments about the Casserly era. At first, I thought blaming Casserly was a cop out. But, after looking at it deeper a few months ago, I realized that Casserly's choices really did hurt this team, and we're still dealing with those issues right now.
I don't think it was Casserly alone. The biggest problem I think was Bob McNair. I still believe there was an unhealthy relationship with HWSNBN that forced Capers to focus his attention on one specific area of the team, where we did not develop any other position as well as we should have during those years.

Travis Johnon, CC Brown, Jabar Gafney & David Carr are the only players I can think of still making a living in the NFL. none of them are starters. TJ is the only one we got anything for.

AJ, Kris Brown, & Dunta Robinson are the only hold overs from that era, and 2 of the 3 may not make it another year.

Well, Billy Miller did have a good career for a little while after leaving here.
But, come on: Sean Payton and Gary Kubiak were hired within weeks of each other. We should be farther along than we are right now. Four years in, 11 wins aren't that much to ask for. At least not from a team as talented as this one.
I know New Orleans had the second pick in the 2006 draft, but it wasn't because they were untalented. The offense was pretty much intact, all they added was a WR(7th round, so it's not like they thought it was a huge need) & a QB. The entire line, the starting WRs & the backfield was already there. Most of them had been playing together for the better part of 6 years by the time Payton got there.

He did pretty much rebuild the defense, same as Kubiak, & I think Kubiak has kept pace with him in that regard.
It's not about me being a season ticket holder. Fans are fans, season ticket holders or not. We should ALL have high standards for this team.

The standard is high..... we all expect to be contending for a Super Bowl. As an organization.. that's something Kubiak had to bring in. That's how bad things were here.

I've said it before, Kubiak has done wonders for the product on the field. I know you don't see it in the W-L record, but if you can't see it on game day, I don't know what to say.

But he's also done wonders for this organization.
 
Again, when you butt Kubiak and Smith's achievements next to Casserly/Capers,
this regime looks Hall-of-Fame. However, it's only average. We're ranked near
15th in every overall category. A rookie head coach took something he was
good at, and made his team NUMBER ONE. I know you know who I'm talking
about. His team holds the #1 run offense, and the #1 overall defense.

Putrid next to average looks great, but it's still average.

55 games...

28-27 record.

That's AVERAGE!
 
I know it sucks not to be able to go from worse to first. But that doesn't mean there hasn't been major progress on this team from last year. I know it doesn't show up in the W-L column..... ultimately that is where we would all like to see it, & if we keep doing what we are doing..... continue to improve, it will. Look at all the things people have been showing you on this board, & HT.com There is a lot of good stuff, & Kubiak is right in the middle of it.

But if you want to talk about what that other coach did on his team. He had one of the leading rushers in the league last year, & he inherited the entire offensive line. So it's not like he started from scratch.

I know the Stats don't look that great, but he didn't overhaul his defensive personnel like we've done over the last three years.

Last year, that team was where we are today. They had it all, I really don't know why they dumped Mangini... I didn't follow that. They just needed to put it all together.

Would they have been better with Mangini? The defense might not have been #1, because they weren't that aggressive. But they would have been good. Their W-L would probably have been better. But it's hard to say. If Brett Farve didn't loose his arm at the end of last season, they may have gone 12-4 last year.
 
Looking at their stats from last year. They were 7th against the run, and 29th against the pass.

It's amazing what getting pressure on the QB will do for you.
 
It's just sad that with all the excuse making going on here, the only thing
we have to look forward to is the SAME putrid performance in the AFC South,
and a ONE GAME IMPROVEMENT in "just" THREE YEARS.

We gotta hear how much better this team is than their record, yet their
record is potentially ONE GAME of improvement from the last two years.
At this rate, Kubiak will be in season 10, before we're championship caliber.

Agree with this.
 
But, come on: Sean Payton and Gary Kubiak were hired within weeks of each other. We should be farther along than we are right now. Four years in, 11 wins aren't that much to ask for. At least not from a team as talented as this one.

It all depends on which pieces of the engine you have to replace. Sometimes it only requires a timing belt, and sometimes it takes many more parts.

And some mechanics are better than others, but you're patient with the one you've got because he specializes specifically on your model of vehicle.
 
It all depends on which pieces of the engine you have to replace. Sometimes it only requires a timing belt, and sometimes it takes many more parts.

And some mechanics are better than others, but you're patient with the one you've got because he specializes specifically on your model of vehicle.

Get Kubiak a suit and a tophat, and enshrine him after his namesake, Tom
Landry, in Canton! He's only at FOUR years of failure. He should start
winning after four more years, just like Landry!!

:sarcasm:
 
It seems like everyone is pretty glum about the "what could have beens". but I found an intersting stat by adding the point totals over the last few seasons. While we have yet to have our Texans play to OUR expectations, they will make a milestone Sunday (unless they loose by 49 points) by completing a season for the first time with a point differential in the black. I call that progress and moving in the right direction.

Point differential
2009 +48 (so far)
2008 -28
2007 -05
2006 -99
2005 -171
2004 -30
2003 -125
2002 -143

Can't argue with the numbers. I'm still not impressed with the team's progress, but credit you with bringing something new to the argument.

I know there's also a stat floating around somewhere about our loss differential. It's gone from an average of 14 points per game in 2006 to 3 points per game this season.

There's no arguing that the team's improved. All the arguing over stats is about to get settled. The most important stat (the W's) gets decided tomorrow.
 
Can't argue with the numbers. I'm still not impressed with the team's progress, but credit you with bringing something new to the argument.

I know there's also a stat floating around somewhere about our loss differential. It's gone from an average of 14 points per game in 2006 to 3 points per game this season.

There's no arguing that the team's improved. All the arguing over stats is about to get settled. The most important stat (the W's) gets decided tomorrow.

Amen. I pray the Texans win, so that we get to see TANGIBLE improvement.
 
Here's some stats:

2009 = mediocrity
2008 = mediocrity
2007 = mediocrity

Many of you are delusional, it is getting out of control.

Y'all act like the Texans are one of the worst teams in football and have already lost Sunday to go to 8-8.

Well guess what the Texans have not and I expect them to go 9-7 and possibily make the playoffs for the best season in the franchise's history.

This is an exciting time for Texans fan.

We have a meaningful week 17 game at home!

I do not understand how being a fan of a team can be fun if during the better times you are still all gloom and doom.

I just can't wait to watch my Texans sunday in a meaningful game!

It is time to get excited for Sunday and put off your negativity!
 
Many of you are delusional, it is getting out of control.

Y'all act like the Texans are one of the worst teams in football and have already lost Sunday to go to 8-8.

Well guess what the Texans have not and I expect them to go 9-7 and possibily make the playoffs for the best season in the franchise's history.

This is an exciting time for Texans fan.

We have a meaningful week 17 game at home!

I do not understand how being a fan of a team can be fun if during the better times you are still all gloom and doom.

I just can't wait to watch my Texans sunday in a meaningful game!

It is time to get excited for Sunday and put off your negativity!

We just hold high standards for this team. They are NOT one of the worst
teams in the NFL, they've just had NO NET IMPROVEMENT over the last
3 years. Improvement in some areas, equal regression in others = no
net gain. We're looking to move FORWARD. Most of Kubiak's 1st draft
class have already reached half their careers.

Although a win against the Patriots will be the FIRST meaningful one all season!
 
We just hold high standards for this team. They are NOT one of the worst
teams in the NFL, they've just had NO NET IMPROVEMENT over the last
3 years. Improvement in some areas, equal regression in others = no
net gain. We're looking to move FORWARD. Most of Kubiak's 1st draft
class have already reached half their careers.

Although a win against the Patriots will be the FIRST meaningful one all season!

I agree with the frustration but it seems that you also have to enjoy the good times when they come and many around here do not seem to be.
 
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