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Are we seeing Jacoby Jones make a legitimate case to become the #2 WR next year?
- Thread starter Porky
- Start date
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I don't think it matters whether he is #2 or #3 - he just needs play time and he has shown he deserves to be on the field. We play tons of 3 and 4 WR sets.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
A situational number two, yes. We do need someone that can block if its a running play, but JJ can damn near outrun everyone on the team and we need that speed. I do think JJ has redeemed himself and is becoming a legitimate receiver. With both him and AJ in at the same time, it poses a big coverage problem for opposing CBs and safeties on long passing plays.
Lance Z's opinion notwithstanding, I don't trust Jacoby's hands in tight quarters enough yet to make him a #2. As a #3 or 4, we NEED to get him on the field more to stretch the coverage as he can get safeties pulled off of AJ. Simply put, if Jacoby gets a step on your CB, there are VERY few who can catch him...hit him in stride and it's 6.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
WR is one of the last positions I'd be addressing in the offseason. We need CBs, safetys, linemen, and a good RB LONG before we need more WRs.
I've got mixed feelings on JJ, but I'm a lot more positive about him after this season. He's still a work in progress, but I agree with Thorn in that he's a 'situational number two'. I don't want to lose Walter, though, but there may not be enough ball to go around.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Agreed and yet his speed reputation is a funny phenomenon. He appears fast when he runs while AJ does not but AJ is faster. Something about their stride.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66988&draftyear=2007&genpos=WR
According to this , he ran a 4.5 before the draft . Jacoby has good football speed and runs away from guys . He also has a loosey goosey way when he's got the ball and cuts on a dime . All this and he's 6'2 and 210 lbs . Reminds me of a poor man's John Taylor .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_%28American_football)
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euro-Texan
Rookie
I like Jacoby's progress, but our number 2 WR needs to be able to catch balls over the middle. I still think Jacoby is too fragile for that. Keven Walter has good hands, good speed and is consistant. I rewound his missed catch as soon as it happened and while it was catchable, it was poorly thrown. Had Schaub put that ball in front of him KW would have gotten a few yards out of that play. I think slot guys historically score few times because they catch the ball in the middle in traffic. It's a good thing we have a player like AJ who can play both positions, but I like what we have right now.
hookinreds
Veteran
We've been playing without a C all season, so we are going to just drop the position all together and run a 6 WR scheme. The petition has already been submitted to the NFL to allow this formation and a decision should be made the week after the Superbowl.
stingray
Hall of Fame
I think it takes jacoby a while to get started when he gets the ball. It's almost like he has bricks as shoes. But when he gets in stride he does put the jets on. But yeah, Andre has no wasted movement, he just puts it on as soon as he gets the ball.
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Fred
Veteran
I agree with this. Whether you call him 2 or 3, we need a over the middle makes tough catches guy. And AJ and JJ.
This is the first time this year that Jacoby has scored a TD that the board has not lit up with "Cut JJ NOW!" threads. Come on Jacoby haters, where are you?
Add OD to that equasion and you have a passing offense that is almost impossible to defend against.
My hope is that JJ doesnt revert back to last years immaturity .... falling asleep in his car at a stop light. I hope he's past all that and can keep his mind on football rather than things outside the field. Fame , money , being MrBigshot .... can do strange things to people , especially those in their early 20's .
I am of the view that the Texans need more speed quickness from WR position not manned by andre Johnosn. Walter and Anderson are effective players, but it appears to me that all of the Texans best offensive games are when they get either JJ/Davis deep. I have the need for more speed as a fairly high priority for the Texans off-season especially since Walter is a FA.
Ndevine7
Rookie
I like david anderson as a nice 3rd wr that can run the short or intermediate route and get some yac. Walter hasnt done anything this year, but idk if jacoby is developed enough to be that 2nd wr
GP
Go Texans!
I think I've raised enough hell over this issue that you all know where I stand.
The guy makes plays. You get the ball into his hands, in space, and he can break off HUGE plays. Chris Johnson is the same way--If he gets into space, he just makes defenders look silly.
You can see it in the body language of LBs and DBs when Jacoby gets the ball in space. They all slow down and try to NOT make a bad angle on him.
Do you see that being done when Walter or Anderson make a catch? Hell no, you don't. You see the defenders running those two guys down and tackling them fairly soon after the catch.
Jacoby Jones was late to a meeting, wasn't allowed to play in the Jags game, and MIGHT have made a difference for us that day. Instead, Kubiak had to inflate his artificial nuts and go "I'm A Man!" on Jacoby.
When Jacoby Jones gets the ball, he makes plays. Period.
Do we NOT need that? How many freaking seasons is it going to take before he gets played? So Gary is NOT racist, but he sure is a dumbass when it comes to making good coaching decisions.
i.e. Chris Brown fumble champion of 2009.
The sooner we get rid of Kubiak, the sooner this team can get a new head coach who knows how to lead men. Jacoby needs work on his character, I won't deny it, but there is more than one way ("I'm A Man!") to lead someone who is dragging his feet on complying with rules.
Gary Kubiak has shot himself in the foot with personnel decisions as it relates to playing the BEST players at critical times.
The guy makes plays. You get the ball into his hands, in space, and he can break off HUGE plays. Chris Johnson is the same way--If he gets into space, he just makes defenders look silly.
You can see it in the body language of LBs and DBs when Jacoby gets the ball in space. They all slow down and try to NOT make a bad angle on him.
Do you see that being done when Walter or Anderson make a catch? Hell no, you don't. You see the defenders running those two guys down and tackling them fairly soon after the catch.
Jacoby Jones was late to a meeting, wasn't allowed to play in the Jags game, and MIGHT have made a difference for us that day. Instead, Kubiak had to inflate his artificial nuts and go "I'm A Man!" on Jacoby.
When Jacoby Jones gets the ball, he makes plays. Period.
Do we NOT need that? How many freaking seasons is it going to take before he gets played? So Gary is NOT racist, but he sure is a dumbass when it comes to making good coaching decisions.
i.e. Chris Brown fumble champion of 2009.
The sooner we get rid of Kubiak, the sooner this team can get a new head coach who knows how to lead men. Jacoby needs work on his character, I won't deny it, but there is more than one way ("I'm A Man!") to lead someone who is dragging his feet on complying with rules.
Gary Kubiak has shot himself in the foot with personnel decisions as it relates to playing the BEST players at critical times.
For the Texans to take another step they don't need a nice 3rd WR, they one who can make big plays. Look at the teams that throw as much as the Texans they all have more dynamic WR3s than the Texans. Also, I think Anderson is below average at YAC, although he is very quick out his break and runs quality patterns. Nothing wrong with Anderson, but you are a better team if he is a 4th or 5th versus a 3rd.
Maddict5
Hall of Fame
i disagree. he plays our welker role excellently. we dont use him that much but when we do hes money esp on 3rd down (bar that jags game).
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
I like JJ, but he appears to have some maturity issues that he's going to have to fix before I think he can handle the responsibility of being a legit #2. I think he has great speed, but he lacks concentration and focus at times to be one of the guys that Schaub can continually rely on. I would love to see him grow though and become a bigger part of the offense. I'll give him credit though, he has made some clutch catches for us this year and surprised me a few times.
On a side note, I would really like him to learn to reposition the ball when he's running. He's just begging to have that thing punched out by a tackler. I know we've kicked that topic around on here numerous times....but it still isn't fixed.
On a side note, I would really like him to learn to reposition the ball when he's running. He's just begging to have that thing punched out by a tackler. I know we've kicked that topic around on here numerous times....but it still isn't fixed.
Anderson is accepteable not excellent. The next level for the Texans will be on becoming dynamic forcing teams to stop what we do, he is not that level of player. Anderson is a Section 8 versus of Wes Welker.
sportfan73
Noob
I'd like to see us take a look at the Cincy WR (Gilyard I think) if he falls to the 2nd round, that or if Dez Bryant somehow falls in our lap in Round 1. Hell he might even fall to the 3rd round, that'd be a nice pick-up after we address RB and OG.
I agree with cak....
I believe Walter is the man, & it doesn't make sense to lose him to FA. If Walter does a good job in run blocking (& he does) & the Texans are more productive with JJ on the field (& we are) than Vonta Leach/Joel Dressen....
Then you take those guys off the field, & run more 3 & 4 WR sets.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I agree with this , if the Texans pick #20 and Dez Bryant is the BPA ... take him . Same thing with Spiller , if he falls to #20 ... take him . The guys who say he's to much like Slaton have to take into consideration that he's a lot like Chris Johnson to .
If he played our Welker role, he would be on the field a whole lot more. He's more akin to Keith Poole & Mcafee (he guy who played in Denver), he's clutch & tough as nails.
Jacoby has been our Wes Welker, in that he is a threat & must be respected. You pay too much attention to AJ, & JJ will burn you. As good as Walther is, & as clutch as DA is neither of them do for AJ & Schaub, what Welker does for Moss & Brady.
But none of the three are Welker, & we need at least JJ & Walther. I don't want to lose DA, because I think he's productive, plus a good locker room guy, but if any of the three has to lose snaps, I would vote for DA.
But I would rather Vonta & Dressen lose snaps (with a healthy OD of course).
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I think JJ is like Welker in that they are elusive after the catch to get some more yards . Walter is a possession receiver who runs good routes and blocks but if we can't run the ball ?
I like Leach but would like to have a guy who's somewhat of a threat to run . I thought Casey was going to play more H Back this year .
Texaninlild
Veteran
JJ has never had a lack of talent except between the ears. It is nice to see him progress into a good catch and run guy. It is also nice just to see him catch and not fumble. Feast or famine with JJ at times throughout his career.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
I think this summarizes my feelings.
I think anderson is more like Wayne Chrebet then he is Wes Welker. If he was even close to Welker he'd be returning kicks. He just doesn't have the same deceptive speed in the open field or is as slippery in traffic.
I keep hearing he's a great locker guy, I guess people are just in love with his string dance for touchdowns and his great Ron Kaworski impression. I think he's much better as a 4th option at WR.
Far as JJ goes....mixed feelings. I think he's become a much better WR and looks to be applying himself. He's definitely got the speed the team needs outside. I think Cak's right in that whether it's a 2 or 3 spot is not as important as getting him in matchups where the offense can use his speed. I just don't think he's been consistent enough to move up to a #2 yet.
For sure I think whether or notto resing KW is going to bea tough decision. I like KW and I think his game fits well into what we do. I just think this year they've used OD to exploit the middle of the field when in the past it seemed like that is where KW made his living, that and making tough catches over the middle.
Norg
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
IMO i like JJ has a WR deep threat but has a punt returner he stinks
and head to head hes just not has good has Kevin walter Kevin is bigger stronger and all around better
let him stay #3 WR if not o well cut him it will not hurt us that much we still got other WR and anderson
i dont know the probelm with Houston is we just got so many good WR and we dont want to let any of them go i guess thats a good problem
we still have Glenn Martinez who showed flashes in PS
is it even normal for a team to have SIx Wide Recivers ???
and head to head hes just not has good has Kevin walter Kevin is bigger stronger and all around better
let him stay #3 WR if not o well cut him it will not hurt us that much we still got other WR and anderson
i dont know the probelm with Houston is we just got so many good WR and we dont want to let any of them go i guess thats a good problem
we still have Glenn Martinez who showed flashes in PS
is it even normal for a team to have SIx Wide Recivers ???
If JJ has matured in his personal life (I've got my doubts) I would let Walter walk and spend the $ in FA on defense.
AJ,JJ,DA,Martinez and I would draft Brandon James in the 5th or 6th rd to return purnts and back DA as the slot receiver.
That WR corps doesn't look bad. IMHO
Getting Floyd or Meachem would be great but is just a pipe dream.
AJ,JJ,DA,Martinez and I would draft Brandon James in the 5th or 6th rd to return purnts and back DA as the slot receiver.
That WR corps doesn't look bad. IMHO
Getting Floyd or Meachem would be great but is just a pipe dream.
drunkcookie
2 drunk 2 cook
what does it matter if JJ is 2 or 3? Is the passing game suffering or something?
Without a running game I'd say this year's passing game has been beyond excellent...
As for Walter, the thing I like about the guy is he gets open quick... someone said he runs good routes... exactly... many a time Shaub is being rushed and Walter is open for a short catch... without Walter getting open in short distance Shaub is getting sacked, grounding or throwing a pick in those situations... you can't just let a guy like that walk...
screw YAC, Walter has been our running game...
Without a running game I'd say this year's passing game has been beyond excellent...
As for Walter, the thing I like about the guy is he gets open quick... someone said he runs good routes... exactly... many a time Shaub is being rushed and Walter is open for a short catch... without Walter getting open in short distance Shaub is getting sacked, grounding or throwing a pick in those situations... you can't just let a guy like that walk...
screw YAC, Walter has been our running game...
HJam72
Hall of Fame
I don't know why people think it would break the bank to re-sign K.W. I know he's a key part in our offense - our clearance rack Wes Welker - but according to this site he's making 1.3 mil this year. So it shouldn't take more than 2-2.5 mil/yr over say, 3 yrs to sign him. Put half of that in incentives/signing bonus and leave the 3rd yr as an option yr.
Do you think he'd walk away from that offer?
Do you guys think he'll get a better deal elsewhere?
Cjeremy635
Overtraining
I'd like to think that he would take that offer. I would love to see him resign and IMHO, I think he's a better receiver than JJ. I think he runs better routes, has better hands, is more dependable, and I don't think that KW has off the field or maturity issues that will get in the way of football. I would like to see them both stay, but if I had to choose one, it would be KW at this time.
Man I've been mulling a Jacoby thread since Sunday to get everyones reaction to his performance this year. He hasn't done a lot returning in the last few games, but he has been solid. Early in the season he was doing well, but a lot were called back, and of course I recall him breaking one. Anyway he has been a serious deep threat the last 3/4's of the season. Jacoby is back in my good graces.
As much as I'm warming back up to JJ, I want Walters and JJ. Hopefully Walters knows that AJ completes him, like he completes AJ. (Not that AJ needs anybody, but obviousley AJ would rather have Walters than Gaffney!)
Disagree. Anderson has the highest catch vs. thrown-to percentage of any WR in the league. He's a legit #3. JJ is the big question at the WR position, but is a lock at PR/KR. I say you sign him to keep him. And you sign KW as well, as it's an uncapped season. There's no excuse NOT to keep our entire offense intact.
HealingBullets
Practice Squad
Ole Miss Texan
Hall of Fame
Coach's decision but if it's me he's still behind AJ and Walter (I re-sign Walter). I think Jacoby still needs to progress more before we appoint him #2 and don't re-sign Walter. Maybe he shows some more improvement over the offseason and wins the job though. In anycase, he's a big threat. He's seen the field more this year and has produced for us.
I'm also a really big fan of David Anderson... but this is a business. For the Texans to be THE elite offense in the league we gotta upgrade. Enter Dexter McCluster from Ole Miss.
Anderson, through his career, has only had three games with over 50 yards receiving. And one of the games he had 1 catch for 60 yards... in the loss to Oakland. I think we can replace DA with McCluster, suddenly our yards after catch skyrocket as does our TDs/points. I'm the first to say our enterior OL is a big problem and we've got to fix our running game, but I also see a huge opportunity in continuing to upgrade our receivers.
WR - TD
A. Johnson - 9
J. Jones - 5
K. Walter - 2
D. Anderson - 0 (3 for career)
Andre, Walter, Jacoby, McCluster, Martinez/Anderson battle for 5. Davis is cut.
I'm also a really big fan of David Anderson... but this is a business. For the Texans to be THE elite offense in the league we gotta upgrade. Enter Dexter McCluster from Ole Miss.
Anderson, through his career, has only had three games with over 50 yards receiving. And one of the games he had 1 catch for 60 yards... in the loss to Oakland. I think we can replace DA with McCluster, suddenly our yards after catch skyrocket as does our TDs/points. I'm the first to say our enterior OL is a big problem and we've got to fix our running game, but I also see a huge opportunity in continuing to upgrade our receivers.
WR - TD
A. Johnson - 9
J. Jones - 5
K. Walter - 2
D. Anderson - 0 (3 for career)
Andre, Walter, Jacoby, McCluster, Martinez/Anderson battle for 5. Davis is cut.
anderson is in the bottom half and probably bottom 1/3 of #3WRs in the league. His catch percentage is high because he runs painfully short routes, and is poor at YAC. His YPC average is one of the lowest for any WR who has played any significant time. He would not be the number #3WR on any other playoff team and probably not any team we are competing for a playoff spot for. He is roster worthy and offers something but is more valuable as #4 or 5 than the usual number 3 in today's NFL. Go look at what most team's number three is doing in terms of YPC and TDs compaed to what Dancing David does.
I am always scared to assume college players will come in a perform, but you are getting the concept that Anderson =ok, but upgrade =chance at an elite offense. Good posting.
I like Walter but I want to spend Dunta,Walter,A.Davis and Pitts money saved by not resigning them to make a splash in FA.
Martinez or D.Jenkins and a draft pick would be my choice. (B.James FLA in the 5-6th rd would be my choice. He can play the slot, has great speed and would be an upgrade as the KR/PR.) IMO
Hamptom and R.Brown or
Mankins and R.Brown
Would be $ better spent. IMO
Martinez or D.Jenkins and a draft pick would be my choice. (B.James FLA in the 5-6th rd would be my choice. He can play the slot, has great speed and would be an upgrade as the KR/PR.) IMO
Hamptom and R.Brown or
Mankins and R.Brown
Would be $ better spent. IMO
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Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
This draft will be dictated by needs instead of best player available. If we want a winning season, we'll be looking past Dez Bryant and picking up one of the many top rated DT's in the first round. The second round should provide a decent center or guard.
Jacoby is not seasoned or disciplined enough to be the #2, but he has the talent to potentially become that. I can see him emerging as our DeSean Jackson.
Walter is strong, fast, disciplined, and has good hands, which is why he remains #2, and why other teams will be offering more money to make him their #2. Technically he's the #3 if OD was healthy.
It would've been smart to pick up Quan Cosby as an UDFA last year to compete with Anderson. They're loving him up there in Cincy.
Jacoby is not seasoned or disciplined enough to be the #2, but he has the talent to potentially become that. I can see him emerging as our DeSean Jackson.
Walter is strong, fast, disciplined, and has good hands, which is why he remains #2, and why other teams will be offering more money to make him their #2. Technically he's the #3 if OD was healthy.
It would've been smart to pick up Quan Cosby as an UDFA last year to compete with Anderson. They're loving him up there in Cincy.
Livid13
Waterboy
Too "FRAGILE" and he returns punts ? Come on, you're joking.
DexmanC
Hall of Fame
Exactly. Jacoby RARELY takes direct hits, because he's so damned fast.
He gets away with holding the ball the way he does, because there's rarely
any defender within 15 yards of him, and he NEVER gets caught from behind!
Jacoby is a serious threat in the passing game but he will never reach his potential on the bench and K. Walters is a #3 Wr IMO. I think Jacoby would make this offense very explosive with his deep speed on the outside and allow K. Walters to use his size & hands going across the middle in the slot, Jacoby should be the #2 wr next year.