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Connor Barwin.....
- Thread starter El Tejano
- Start date
TimeKiller
Guest
future Investment definitely. The guy has upside, he's a physical monster...just needs a few moves to be taught and he'll be knocking heads off for a while here.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
To early for bust, potential is there. This team isn't deep enought to draft on potential in the second rd though.
Porky
Hall of Fame
Personally, I think the kid has a bright future. I've seen some bust labels on him from some of our illustrious regulars here and that's just pathetic. The kid is a rookie on a learning curve. He has all the tangibles and intangibles to be a plus pass rusher, but is still raw. I wouldn't be surprised to see him hit low double figures either next year or year after.
TEXANRED
Texan-American
Give him 3 years and lets see if he develops into an every down player. I think he can but we will see.
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
This guy only has 2 yrs exp. as a defensive player, but he shows more drive than Okoye. I like him. He just needs more reps.
noxiousdog
Rookie
Weird. I thought he got on in Seattle, or was that the horrendous intentional grounding call, so he didn't get it?
Regardless, he looks to be an excellent situational pass rusher. I'm not sure that was a luxury we could afford in the second round, and I'd love to see if there's a 3-4 team salivating over having him at OLB.
Regardless, he looks to be an excellent situational pass rusher. I'm not sure that was a luxury we could afford in the second round, and I'd love to see if there's a 3-4 team salivating over having him at OLB.
eriadoc
Texan-American
That's where I am. This team isn't good enough to be training wheels for an OC. This team is not good enough to let up off the gas with a big lead in the second half. This team is not good enough to overcome key injuries. This team is not good enough to draft projects in early rounds yet.
I don't have a prob with the Barwin pick in the 2nd round. Many 2nd rounders never make an impact. If he becomes a good situational pass rusher, then it was a successful pick. Anything better than that is a bonus.
AO, on the other hand, was drafted in a spot where he should be expected to be an immediate impact player and right now, he's not even performing to "good situational player" status. It's not AO's fault so much, every player is what he is. But, what GM in his right mind would draft him there and not know that he is a long term project at best? In other words, only the elite teams who have solid starters at AO's position should have considered drafting him as a project to take over for an aging veteran in 3-4 years.
AO's position is another concern to me. What GM could not look at him and see that he was an undersized and immature DT? Well, the Texans obviously. To me his best position may be as a 3-4 DE.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
This sums up well how I feel.
It's not that I feel he's been a total waste of a pick, just that he's a project pick with our second rounder who is going to see part time play for the duration of his time here unless we switch to a 3-4 defense. We could've netted a starter instead or a running back that could've helped with our running game.
I just think we could've gotten the same production out of Nading, Bulman, or even UDFA Jamison this year.
By the way it's 5.0 sacks from Mario's first season and Amobi got 5.5 sacks his first year.
TimeKiller
Guest
And they would give up what for Barwin?
Agreed! However, I do believe with better mentoring and game time guidance, KS would be an excellent OC.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Barwin is coming along as expected in his development. Rookie DL normally don't light up the stat sheet and add to that its his second year ever playing defense. I was very impressed with his awareness for his experience level, the example that sticks out is when he got his hands up to bat down that pass against the Rams. The play before, Pollard went to lay the wood and the QB passed right over him.
We've got a very good DE rotation for the future in Mario, Smith, Barwin, and Bulman. Add an impact DT and they will only look better
We've got a very good DE rotation for the future in Mario, Smith, Barwin, and Bulman. Add an impact DT and they will only look better
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
hmmm considering that most of our losses were due to the lack of the running game.....and when last year prior to draft we knew the running game needed help in case slaton had a rough year... and the fears concerning a running game became real this year..and cost us the playoffs....I think that using that 2nd round pick on a DE was a mistake....Glenn Coffee and Shonne Green could have gotten those precious one yards that would have made the difference in the entire season.
I dont feel that Barwin has had had an impact on this team this season...not enough to warrant the use of the second round pick...we needed an impact now and not the future.Barwin is a work in progress..and from what I have seen on the boards works in progress are not what this team needs.
I dont feel that Barwin has had had an impact on this team this season...not enough to warrant the use of the second round pick...we needed an impact now and not the future.Barwin is a work in progress..and from what I have seen on the boards works in progress are not what this team needs.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Yeah Glen Coffee's steller 2.6 ypc would obviously have resurrected our running game. Shonn Greene maybe but it isn't just the RB's, it is 2.5 OLmen out.
Texaninlild
Veteran
He has a motor and is a physical specimen. The kid will see 10 sacks in his near future. Let him grow a little into the position. I believe this is only his second year to play D End, including college.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I'm not sure why, but I haven't gained an opinion of Barwin one way or the other.
DeMarCushPoll
UDFA
As others said, to soon to tell, but he shows good upside. We'll know more next year.
* sigh *
It's always next year with this outfit.
We're not the only outfit saying that though. 31 teams say the same thing every year ( we'll get em next year). Some teams have been saying it for a looooooooong time. I think for the Ten/Oilers it's about 43 years and still counting. It is frustrating but I have faith that this team is moving in the right direction. 2010! Go Texans!
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
Oh I'm willing to give him the time. I guess I should've asked 'BECAUSE of him only having played DE for two years including college do you think this expirement is pass or fail?'
I think he's going to do well. I've actually noticed him coming along with more plays as the season draws to an end.
Goldensilence
hipster elite
Translation: "At least we're not the Lions!"
I am assuming you're talking about a championship. Look honestly right now of course I'd love to be playing for a championship and I accept that this team in nowhere near that.
I guess I'm tired of saying "maybe next year" on a realistic shot at the playoffs or hell even a WINNING season. Looking at it that way Barwin perfectly fits in with the whole mantra of "maybe next year" here.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I was a fan of the Oilers...they made the playoffs pretty frequently. I can't get as excited about a team that I started to follow as a guy in my 30's and now that I'm a 4 years from 50 in a couple of months and still haven't seen a playoff game....well, I'll take the Oilers over this any day.
I agree completely. He's got lots of potential but I'd much rather have a starting OG like Max Unger or Andy Levitre who are every down players now, not 3 yrs. from now.
DeMarCushPoll
UDFA
I totally understand, I was a huge Oilers fan. They broke my heart many many times. They did make the playoffs frequently in the late 70's and early 90's, but the rest of the time they were just bad. Even though the Texans haven't made it to the playoffs, I get more excited about them every year because I honestly feel like they're headed in the right direction. They'll grow as team and eventually learn how to win these close games that seem to slip through their fingers. Hell if not anything else, Manning has to retire at some point.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
Manning leaving doesn't help our problem with the Tacks or Kittens. But at least if manning leaves, we'll stand a chance against Indy.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
When the Oilers were bad they always drafted well enough and turned around quickly enough once Sid Gillman and Mike Holovak turned the franchise around in the mid 70's....this Texans organization moves at a snails pace.
DeMarCushPoll
UDFA
Until this year we've pretty much owned the Jags and losing to them twice was a fluke, IMO. Two years in a row now we've split with the tits so we're at least playing at their level. A good running game will change everything.
DeMarCushPoll
UDFA
I see what you're saying, but the Oilers never had to completely turn over the roster the way Kub did. They always had some base talent to build on. That's the only reason why I would like to see them give Kub one more year. This situation reminds me of Dungy when he was fired from TB. He spent all those years building that team just to have Gruden slip in and benifit from it. I don't want to see that happen here.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
sure they did. Once the Warren Moon era was over Bud let go of Moon, Dishman, Sean Jones, William Fuller, and every other high salary cap guy and rebuilt. It didn't take long to start drafting Steve McNair, Eddie George and they were completely rebuilt in a couple of seasons. The Earl Campbell teams were dismantled in a similar fashion as Moon and company moved in and set up shop.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
what are you a fan of Kubiak or a fan of the Texans? Do you really think those Tampa fans were upset they went to the Super Bowl with Gruden instead of Dungy? Why wouldn't you want to see us succeed with another coach?
Section516
Warrior
I'm not an Oiler baby, and I've never really looked too deep into their history except reading some important player bio's and watching some highlights ect ect..
But did the Oilers ever have such a lack of talent as the Capers era team did?
But did the Oilers ever have such a lack of talent as the Capers era team did?
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
I think an under appreciated fact of those 80's and 90's teams rebuilding was the committment to offensive linemen. Starting with Dean Steinkuhler, Munchak, Mathews etc. all the way up to Brad Hopkins.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
oh yeah, and second tier guys like Don Maggs, Mike Williams, and Harvey Salem were all better than just about every player on our current lines as well.I think an under appreciated fact of those 80's and 90's teams rebuilding was the committment to offensive linemen. Starting with Dean Steinkuhler, Munchak, Mathews etc. all the way up to Brad Hopkins.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
sure they did. Ed Biles could tell you that. Bucky freaking Richardson and Billy Joe Tolliver actually started for this team.
Section516
Warrior
GP
Go Texans!
I was old enough to remember that era of Oilers.
And you are RIGHT.
Our o-line was very good compared to anything the Texans have lined up thus far.
I guess that's what burns me up: I saw, with my own eyes, what a really good offensive line can do for a QB, RB, and Receivers.
There wasn't a Sunday game, with THAT era of Oilers, that I didn't fully expect for Warren Moon to be able to dissect the secondary, as well as allow our RBs to run well.
Section516
Warrior
Hey, something similar about them both - They both played with Favre, one on same team, one against in college.. =O
Hm, So Richardson was picked up by Cowboys to play fullback?
Oh well, history lesson for the day.
Hm, So Richardson was picked up by Cowboys to play fullback?
Oh well, history lesson for the day.
DeMarCushPoll
UDFA
I'm not stuck on Kubiak, I want them to do whatever it takes to succeed. However, a new coaching staff means a new system and new players to fit that sytem. Even under the best of conditions, those things usually take time to develop. I also don't want the Texans to be one of those orginizations that start over every 3 to 4 years. Teams that do that basically all have one thing in common, they don't ever win. I didn't have any great expectations for this team going in to this year. I felt like they were still another year away from making a big impact. If they finish 9-7, that's about where I think most people expected them to be. I could be wrong though?
spurstexanstros
Texans Rising
Hey 2.6 yards could have helped us on three goalline game deciding plays....makes you miss Ron Dayne..right?
I think what killed us this year was lack o running game and your right the Texans could have used OL help...didnt they have a crack at the first center picked...in the second round Unger I think it was...dang I am bad with names.. all i recall DE was not priority.
They may have foul tipped with Barwin but they hit a grand slam with Cushing.
Ok now everyone start praying CJ Spller....CJ Spiller...Cj Spiller. If they draft another DE I am throwing comp out the window.
No more projects on this team...please.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Jon Runyan (although mostly a back-up for the Oilers) he went on to have a long career.
Another commitment during the mid to late 80's that the Oilers made in drafting was at Running Back. Alan Pinkett, Alonzo Highsmith, Lorenzo White, etc.
Another
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
CJ Spiller?
The needs on this team are so fricking obvious.
If they look for anyone on offense OTHER THAN an offensive lineman (center/guard), then I'LL throw my laptop at the TV! Next, they better be looking in for help in the secondary, preferably a true FS. 1st round OL, 2nd round secondary or vice versa i don't care so long as they narrow their focus to those 2 areas for the 1st 2 rounds.
Look at how the Giants defense crumbled when kenny phillips was shut down for the year; the Steelers defense crumbled when polamalu went down, came back up in his few games back & then went back down when he went out again. Even the ravens looked like crap for a little bit when Reed was out earlier this year.
Pollard's a nice blaine bishop type addition , but we still need that ball hawk back there... & this is the year to do it.
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Goatcheese
Texan
Most people said 5 sacks would be considered a successful rookie campaign, and he's managed 3.5 plus a lulzy intentional grounding. So I'd say he's had a quality rookie season.
He's still getting by on raw talent and effort, but with experience he will develop a repertoire of rush moves that should make him dangerous.
He's still getting by on raw talent and effort, but with experience he will develop a repertoire of rush moves that should make him dangerous.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
Don't forget Mike "can I have another cigarette?" Rozier. They didn't fish him out of round 4. As for two-time Heisman runner up Lorenzo White, I was hoping for Thurman Thomas, but Lo White dressed well and his big feet seemed to turn the coach on.Jon Runyan (although mostly a back-up for the Oilers) he went on to have a long career.
Another commitment during the mid to late 80's that the Oilers made in drafting was at Running Back. Alan Pinkett, Alonzo Highsmith, Lorenzo White, etc.
Another
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Maggs would have been a 1 or 2 but went to the USFL first . David Williams was a first and was the main focus of babygate . Salem was a second rd. pick the same year as Matthews I think . Anywhos that's a lot of 1st rd talent .
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I'm not saying they weren't high picks, just stating that they weren't elite players like Munch and Matthews...hence the second tier label. That second tier level guy was better than this group to a man so it's not a backhanded compliment. Many thought Steinkuhler would have been the best of the group if not for his injury.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I know what you meant , I was giving a info for the Oiler impaired . My point is , you take two elite players and put three good players around them , you have a top tier OL . I just wish they would have ran a regular offense to let those guys plow ahead . Bob Young had them doing the clean and jerk so they could deliver a pop .
The Third Man
Rookie
It's weird how a thread about Connor Barwin, a bright spot for an improving Texans defense, has mutated into a nostalgia thread about the Oilers. With the exception of the George Blanda and Earl Campbell eras, that franchise was nothing but trouble. All of you guys marveling at the talent those 80's and 90's teams had also need to acknowledge that they were choking dogs. If you think the Texans have been frustrating, go back and watch the stink jobs the Glanville and Pardee teams put us through. Houston suffered through every type of embarrassment on and off the field from the Oilers and are still paying for it. Never forget that.
ATXtexanfan
Hall of Fame
I remember the oilers never winning anything. Talk about the texans not being able to get over the hump, all the oilers are famous for is the greatest choke job of all time to a backup qb. That chick left you and took everything you had. Including the dog. Get over it. Love your new girl