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Shout out to Saints coach Sean Payton

H

houstonspartan

All Pro
I just did some reading about New Orleans' coach, Sean Payton. I'd totally forgotten that he took over a really bad team in 2006, and had to re-build.

Then, on top of that, he came in right after Katrina. This was when the city was still a total disaster, and people didn't even know if the city was going to survive. The Superdome had been condemed, and the team had to play games in different cities.

I also remember that at the time, Tom Benson, the Saints owner, was considering moving or selling the team. There was a lot of rumors that Benson was cheap, and just wanted out of the NFL, especially considering that it was questionable whether New Orleans would survive. But, he hung in there, and they made major repairs to the dome, even though it took a while.

So, in four years, Sean Payton has:

a) re-built the team from scratch
b) dealt with the distraction of the aftermath of a hurricane
c) dealt with transitioning into a head coach
d) dealt with having to play games in different cities.
e) dealt with a poor fanbase that really didn't have a lot of money to go to games.

He has dealt with all of this, and now has an undefeated football team. That plays in a packed stadium every single week. In a broke-ass city. In FOUR YEARS.

Damn, that's impressive.
 
Payton did not have to playthe regular season in other cities only their preseason games.

The Superdome was re-opened in 2006.

Getting Drew Brees helped him a great deal, but yes he has done a good job with the Saints.
 
Well, I'll give Payton some props but he was a big risk taker IMO. He took Drew Brees (who as I recall was injured with a bad shoulder) and brought him to NO and gave him a huge contract...which turned out to be a good deal afterall.

It also helps to be in the NFC South as oppossed to the AFC South!
 
houstonspartan said:
I just did some reading about New Orleans' coach, Sean Payton. I'd totally forgotten that he took over a really bad team in 2006, and had to re-build.
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No he didn't. The 2004 Saints missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker. 2005 was Katrina plus losing Deuce. He got a good team and added a QB due to the stupidity of San Diego.
 
infantrycak said:
No he didn't. The 2004 Saints missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker. 2005 was Katrina plus losing Deuce. He got a good team and added a QB due to the stupidity of San Diego.
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And due to the stupidity of Bob McNair. Did we even make a play for Drew Brees? Oh, I"m sure we did. But he had that crosswalk violation from 1985 that was still on his record, I suppose.

But hey, I forgot: He has really been on the ball when it comes to rebulding this team.

Go Saints!
 
GP said:
And due to the stupidity of Bob McNair. Did we even make a play for Drew Brees? Oh, I"m sure we did. But he had that crosswalk violation from 1985 that was still on his record, I suppose.

But hey, I forgot: He has really been on the ball when it comes to rebulding this team.

Go Saints!
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Nice. How about we play with the facts instead? Brees had surgery on his throwing shoulder that off-season. That's why many teams didn't consider him and Miami went with Culpepper over Brees.
 
Grams said:
Payton did not have to playthe regular season in other cities only their preseason games.

The Superdome was re-opened in 2006.

Getting Drew Brees helped him a great deal, but yes he has done a good job with the Saints.
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Uh, I believe the Superdome was re-opened in late summer 2006, which still would have put their team in Limbo, and still would have made that a huge distraction for the team.

My point is, there are still fans using Hurricane Ike as a reason to excuse Kubiak.
 
Texan4Ever said:
Well, I'll give Payton some props but he was a big risk taker IMO. He took Drew Brees (who as I recall was injured with a bad shoulder) and brought him to NO and gave him a huge contract...which turned out to be a good deal afterall.

It also helps to be in the NFC South as oppossed to the AFC South!
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A little tired of the AFC South is a tough division excuse. There's no reason why after four years we can't beat Jax and Tenn on a regular basis and at least challenge Indy.
 
houstonspartan said:
My point is, there are still fans using Hurricane Ike as a reason to excuse Kubiak.
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Excuse for what, then or now? I have seen nobody saying anything about this year's Texans and Ike. Last year's Texans were affected by Ike and that will never change.

houstonspartan said:
A little tired of the AFC South is a tough division excuse. There's no reason why after four years we can't beat Jax and Tenn on a regular basis and at least challenge Indy.
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We did beat TN and we did challenge Indy in both games. Yes we whiffed against the Jags.
 
infantrycak said:
No he didn't. The 2004 Saints missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker. 2005 was Katrina plus losing Deuce. He got a good team and added an EXCELLENT QB due to the stupidity of San Diego.
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Thank you sir. You saved me some keystrokes. The 2005 team Payton inherited was not nearly as bad off as the one we had in 2005.

Oh, and I made a slight edit to your post.
 
infantrycak said:
Excuse for what, then or now? I have seen nobody saying anything about this year's Texans and Ike. Last year's Texans were affected by Ike and that will never change.



We did beat TN and we did challenge Indy in both games. Yes we whiffed against the Jags.
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I meant beat them with some consistency so we're not always in last place in the division. I don't think that's too much to ask after four years.
 
GP said:
And due to the stupidity of Bob McNair. Did we even make a play for Drew Brees? Oh, I"m sure we did. But he had that crosswalk violation from 1985 that was still on his record, I suppose.

But hey, I forgot: He has really been on the ball when it comes to rebulding this team.

Go Saints!
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Your anger is starting to make you lie.
That's not like you.
I-Cak has the real back story. Also, there's that little problem that - thanks to McNair's infatuation - we'd already re-upped HWWNBN in Feb of '06.
 
ObsiWan said:
Your anger is starting to make you lie.
That's not like you.
I-Cak has the real back story. Also, there's that little problem that - thanks to McNair's infatuation - we'd already re-upped HWWNBN in Feb of '06.
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Yes, my anger is making me reach. I agree.

I'm sick and tired of watching this team make half-hearted moves for players that are speculative, at best.

My only joy is watching Brian Cushing play football. Yet I wonder how long it will take before he succumbs to the disease of mediocrity. The odds are not in his favor, IMO.

I'm severely pissed at this team on so many levels.
 
GP said:
And due to the stupidity of Bob McNair. Did we even make a play for Drew Brees? Oh, I"m sure we did. But he had that crosswalk violation from 1985 that was still on his record, I suppose.

But hey, I forgot: He has really been on the ball when it comes to rebulding this team.

Go Saints!
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Matt Schaub has been arrested.
 
houstonspartan said:
I meant beat them with some consistency so we're not always in last place in the division. I don't think that's too much to ask after four years.
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Our divisional opponents have combined for 1(one, single, uno) losing season amongst the 3 of them since Kubes got here, and that was only due to the Jags being devastated by injuries.

Every team in our division expects to go to the playoffs at the start of every season. That's a tough row to hoe for any team, and doubly so for a rookie HC with the youngest team in the NFL.
 
Goatcheese said:
Our divisional opponents have combined for 1(one, single, uno) losing season amongst the 3 of them since Kubes got here, and that was only due to the Jags being devastated by injuries.

Every team in our division expects to go to the playoffs at the start of every season. That's a tough row to hoe for any team, and doubly so for a rookie HC with the youngest team in the NFL.
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Yawn. So what's your point?

I call bs on this. So, we're supposed to give Gary a 50-year contract because the AFC South is sooooooo tough?

I don't think so.
 
houstonspartan said:
Yawn. So what's your point?

I call bs on this. So, we're supposed to give Gary a 50-year contract because the AFC South is sooooooo tough?

I don't think so.
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My point is very simple. It's stupid to expect a team rebuilding from almost nothing to steamroll their way through the hardest division in football.

When a guy has a mountainous road to travel you don't judge him as if he's racing on a salt flat.
 
infantrycak said:
No he didn't. The 2004 Saints missed the playoffs on a tiebreaker. 2005 was Katrina plus losing Deuce. He got a good team and added a QB due to the stupidity of San Diego.
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This is completely untrue. That Saints team that Peyton took over sucked big time. They were nowhere and had been broken down from having Haslett there to long. That Saints team was terrible when Peyton took over. Peyton instilled an entirely different offense and had one of the best teams in the NFC in his first season and lost a close playoff game to the NFC champs in the Bears. There offense has been one of the best teams since and all they really needed was a defense. He finally got a really good one put together and they're undefeated this year. Peyton completely turned around this team and it wasn't all because of Brees either. He made a great a draft pick in Colston in late rounds, he brought in other WR's that have all worked well in his system.
 
Goatcheese said:
Our divisional opponents have combined for 1(one, single, uno) losing season amongst the 3 of them since Kubes got here, and that was only due to the Jags being devastated by injuries.

Every team in our division expects to go to the playoffs at the start of every season. That's a tough row to hoe for any team, and doubly so for a rookie HC with the youngest team in the NFL.
Click to expand...

The Jags were not expected to go anywhere this year by anyone really.
 
As I hope he can make it 14-0 but the Saints are behind the Cowboys 14-3 in the second quarter.
 
Goatcheese said:
They only had a bad year in 2008 because of injuries. Once they got healthy there was no reason for them to have another bad year.
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True. One of my best friends coached for them and they had injuries on every side if the ball at every key position. Last season was survival for them.
 
Goatcheese said:
Our divisional opponents have combined for 1(one, single, uno) losing season amongst the 3 of them since Kubes got here, and that was only due to the Jags being devastated by injuries.

Every team in our division expects to go to the playoffs at the start of every season. That's a tough row to hoe for any team, and doubly so for a rookie HC with the youngest team in the NFL.
Click to expand...

why is Kubiak a rookie coach still? this is year 4 of Kubiak after all.
 
houstonspartan said:
I just did some reading about New Orleans' coach, Sean Payton. I'd totally forgotten that he took over a really bad team in 2006, and had to re-build.

Then, on top of that, he came in right after Katrina. This was when the city was still a total disaster, and people didn't even know if the city was going to survive. The Superdome had been condemed, and the team had to play games in different cities.

I also remember that at the time, Tom Benson, the Saints owner, was considering moving or selling the team. There was a lot of rumors that Benson was cheap, and just wanted out of the NFL, especially considering that it was questionable whether New Orleans would survive. But, he hung in there, and they made major repairs to the dome, even though it took a while.

So, in four years, Sean Payton has:

a) re-built the team from scratch
b) dealt with the distraction of the aftermath of a hurricane
c) dealt with transitioning into a head coach
d) dealt with having to play games in different cities.
e) dealt with a poor fanbase that really didn't have a lot of money to go to games.

He has dealt with all of this, and now has an undefeated football team. That plays in a packed stadium every single week. In a broke-ass city. In FOUR YEARS.

Damn, that's impressive.
Click to expand...

houstonspartan said:
Uh, I believe the Superdome was re-opened in late summer 2006, which still would have put their team in Limbo, and still would have made that a huge distraction for the team.

My point is, there are still fans using Hurricane Ike as a reason to excuse Kubiak.
Click to expand...


houstonspartan said:
A little tired of the AFC South is a tough division excuse. There's no reason why after four years we can't beat Jax and Tenn on a regular basis and at least challenge Indy.
Click to expand...
houstonspartan said:
I meant beat them with some consistency so we're not always in last place in the division. I don't think that's too much to ask after four years.
Click to expand...


houstonspartan said:
Yawn. So what's your point?

I call bs on this. So, we're supposed to give Gary a 50-year contract because the AFC South is sooooooo tough?

I don't think so.
Click to expand...

Become a Saints fan .... Problem solved.
 
Corrosion said:
Become a Saints fan .... Problem solved.
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you're talking nonsense corrosion. even the saints could do better than 1 win against the afc south ... oh wait. how'd that work out for them even coming off of a 10 win season? anyone doing well against the afc south this year? last year? bueller?
 
Goatcheese said:
Every team in our division expects to go to the playoffs at the start of every season. That's a tough row to hoe for any team, and doubly so for a rookie HC with the youngest team in the NFL.
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Gary Kubiak is still a rookie? He coaches like it at times, so I can see why the misstatement. And I think the "youngest team in the NFL" has been debunked.

Thie AFC South is tough...but not that tough. Jax has been a .500 team since 2006. Aside from a magical (and fluky) 2008, the Titans have been a mediocre squad that overachieved due to Jeff Fisher's coaching. The Colts? A great team, with an all-time great QB. A great system. But, not great talent across the board.

Now that the Texans have raised their level of play from atrocious to mediocre, there are no weaklings like Detroit or St. Louis in the division. But, the Texans have played like weaklings inside the AFC South. That's why the Texans need to find a new coach that can bring this team to a level where they can compete with these 3 teams.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Sean Payton???
 
Corrosion said:
Become a Saints fan .... Problem solved.
Click to expand...

The most ridiculus response I have ever seen on this board.

Sorry man, considering I live in Houston, have have been a long time Texans season ticket holder and has dropped close to $10,000 on the team, I'm kind of stuck rooting for them.

Nice try, though.
 
Lucky said:
Gary Kubiak is still a rookie? He coaches like it at times, so I can see why the misstatement. And I think the "youngest team in the NFL" has been debunked.

Thie AFC South is tough...but not that tough. Jax has been a .500 team since 2006. Aside from a magical (and fluky) 2008, the Titans have been a mediocre squad that overachieved due to Jeff Fisher's coaching. The Colts? A great team, with an all-time great QB. A great system. But, not great talent across the board.

Now that the Texans have raised their level of play from atrocious to mediocre, there are no weaklings like Detroit or St. Louis in the division. But, the Texans have played like weaklings inside the AFC South. That's why the Texans need to find a new coach that can bring this team to a level where they can compete with these 3 teams.

Not sure what any of this has to do with Sean Payton???
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Lucky, exactly. I'm tired of the "we're in a tough division" excuse. I used to use that myself, during Gary's first two years. But, four years in, it's no longer a legit excuse.

And, sorry guys, but, Sean Payton took over a horrible Saints team.

Kinda sad all the excuse-making going on for the Texans.
 
houstonspartan said:
The most ridiculus response I have ever seen on this board.

Sorry man, considering I live in Houston, have have been a long time Texans season ticket holder and has dropped close to $10,000 on the team, I'm kind of stuck rooting for them.

Nice try, though.
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Damn, $10,000? That's a lot for the product.
 
GP said:
And due to the stupidity of Bob McNair. Did we even make a play for Drew Brees? Oh, I"m sure we did. But he had that crosswalk violation from 1985 that was still on his record, I suppose.

But hey, I forgot: He has really been on the ball when it comes to rebulding this team.

Go Saints!
Click to expand...

We didn't go after Brees for the same reason we weren't interested in Young, Lienart or Cutler in the Draft.
 
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Texecutioner said:
This is completely untrue. That Saints team that Peyton took over sucked big time. They were nowhere and had been broken down from having Haslett there to long. That Saints team was terrible when Peyton took over. Peyton instilled an entirely different offense and had one of the best teams in the NFC in his first season and lost a close playoff game to the NFC champs in the Bears. There offense has been one of the best teams since and all they really needed was a defense. He finally got a really good one put together and they're undefeated this year. Peyton completely turned around this team and it wasn't all because of Brees either. He made a great a draft pick in Colston in late rounds, he brought in other WR's that have all worked well in his system.
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Offensively, the only thing added was Colston, Bush & Brees. Bush didn't contribute in 2006. So other than Colston & Brees, his offense was ready to go. Joe Horn, Devery Henderson, the entire line, Duece McAllister.... that was a pretty potent offense, when Aaron Brooks didn't have his head up is arse.

Defensively I agree, he overhauled it. I think all three starting LBs were new with that team. McKenzie was already there I think. And most of the DLine... But they weren't all that. It was the offense that moved that team.

But that brings up a good point. It took him 4 years to fix his defense, same as us.... & he still looks at his Denny's menu furtively throughout the game. Not a big deal.

Katrina wrecked their 2005 season. That's the only reason they had the #2 pick in the draft.
 
However, as a better comparison, to truly see how good a job Payton has done in New Orleans, is Scott Linehan & the St Louis Rams.

Injuries hurt the Rams in '05, & led to Linehan coming in and getting the job. Linehan was another coach who had instant success, & a lot of "fans" here & on our old board wished we had chosen that coach over Kubiak because of what he had done in St Louis.

That team progressively got worse, where the Saints, & the Texans have gotten better, if only from a talent stand point.
 
thunderkyss said:
Offensively, the only thing added was Colston, Bush & Brees. Bush didn't contribute in 2006. So other than Colston & Brees, his offense was ready to go. Joe Horn, Devery Henderson, the entire line, Duece McAllister.... that was a pretty potent offense, when Aaron Brooks didn't have his head up is arse.
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Where do you come up with this stuff? This was not some potent offense in the least bit when Haslett was there. Henderson was a rookie in 05/06 seasons and hadn't done jack and had 343 yards that season. He was a nobody. Brooks was horrible. He threw 13 TD's and 17 INT's and couldn't even throw for 3,000 yards that year. He had needed to be benched a year or two before that, but Haslett wouldn't do anything to address the QB situation. Duece and Horn were both getting old and hit with injuries left and right. That offense sucked ass before Peyton got there.

thunderkyss said:
Defensively I agree, he overhauled it. I think all three starting LBs were new with that team. McKenzie was already there I think. And most of the DLine... But they weren't all that. It was the offense that moved that team.
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No McKenzie was on the street and wasn't playing for anyone. Peyton was the only coach that would even give the guy a look at the time even though he had been one of the better CB's in the league for several years. Peyton brought him in and he played very well for the Saints for dirt money as well.

thunderkyss said:
But that brings up a good point. It took him 4 years to fix his defense, same as us.... & he still looks at his Denny's menu furtively throughout the game. Not a big deal.
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There defense was terrible when he got there. He has turned it around pretty nicely. And the Texans defense has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

thunderkyss said:
Katrina wrecked their 2005 season. That's the only reason they had the #2 pick in the draft.
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Do you ever get sick of making excuses? The Saints team had never been a great team under Haslett. They been under achieving with him and gradually had been getting worse. He had lost that team, and everyone knew it.
 
thunderkyss said:
However, as a better comparison, to truly see how good a job Payton has done in New Orleans, is Scott Linehan & the St Louis Rams.

Injuries hurt the Rams in '05, & led to Linehan coming in and getting the job. Linehan was another coach who had instant success, & a lot of "fans" here & on our old board wished we had chosen that coach over Kubiak because of what he had done in St Louis.
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Where do you pull this crazy stuff from? Linehan never had any kind of "instant success" The Rams never did anything under Linehan. He was so bad that he was fired in mid season in like year 3.
 
Texecutioner said:
Where do you come up with this stuff? This was not some potent offense in the least bit when Haslett was there.

Duece and Horn were both getting old and hit with injuries left and right. That offense sucked ass before Peyton got there.
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I didn't say they were potent, my point was that the talent was there. Payton's offensive mind was a big part of what they did in 2006. I'm not denying that. Personnel wise, there wasn't a big overhaul.
Texecutioner said:
No McKenzie was on the street and wasn't playing for anyone. Peyton was the only coach that would even give the guy a look at the time even though he had been one of the better CB's in the league for several years. Peyton brought him in and he played very well for the Saints for dirt money as well.
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I'm pretty sure Mckenzie was a New Orleans Saints before 2006.
The Saints might have cut him, then brought him back in or something like that.. sounds familiar... but he's been with the Saints since 2004.
Texecutioner said:
There defense was terrible when he got there. He has turned it around pretty nicely. And the Texans defense has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
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I agree with the state & progress of their defense. I think it's exactly the same thing that I said.

I also think it has everything to do with what we're talking here. Payton is a good coach, it only took him 4 years to get the defense to respectability.

Gary Kubiak sucks because it took him 4 years to get the defense to respectability.
Texecutioner said:
Do you ever get sick of making excuses? The Saints team had never been a great team under Haslett. They been under achieving with him and gradually had been getting worse. He had lost that team, and everyone knew it.
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underachieving because they had enough talent that Payton was able to maximize on. I'm saying the same thing you are. you're just drawing dumb-ass conclusions from it.
 
Texecutioner said:
Where do you pull this crazy stuff from? Linehan never had any kind of "instant success" The Rams never did anything under Linehan. He was so bad that he was fired in mid season in like year 3.
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We played them in the preseason. If I remember right (& I freely admit it's possible I'm remembering wrong) their defense played better than ours, even though we won. I think several people were still upset with the Mario pick & his slow start (even though that was only the second preseason game) didn't help.

They went on to win 4 of their first 5 games, losing their sixth game by 2 points. Alot of people were optomistic about St Louis at that time.

many a houston Texans fan was upset with our record versus theirs, & those sentiments were all over this board.
 
thunderkyss said:
I didn't say they were potent, my point was that the talent was there. Payton's offensive mind was a big part of what they did in 2006. I'm not denying that. Personnel wise, there wasn't a big overhaul.
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The talent was not there at all. The talent that was there was hardly as responsible for the successful turn around of that offense from when Peyton came in there. Brees wasn't there and Peyton brought him in that off season and he drafted Colston late in the draft. Those two have been the biggest reasons for NO's offensive turn around. All of a sudden the Saints had an Elite QB and a top tier talent at WR even as a rookie. And Bush may not have been a total beast or anything but he caught a ton of passes all year long and at the end of the season he was a total beast for the Saints that year actually. That was three new weapons right there along with the fact that Peyton had a new system that ran very aggressively and successfully. He also brought in Meachum that very next season who has been a nice weapon to use along with Moore as well. Peyton has ran that system so well with Brees as the QB that no matter who has been injured on that team, the offense has still flourished.



thunderkyss said:
I'm pretty sure Mckenzie was a New Orleans Saints before 2006.
The Saints might have cut him, then brought him back in or something like that.. sounds familiar... but he's been with the Saints since 2004.
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Again, you don't have clue of what you're talking about. McKenzie was out of a job and Peyton was the only guy to give him a real shot.



"McKenzie, healthy but frustratingly unemployed, called Saints coach Sean Payton 12 days ago, desperate for a job.

"When I saw a few guys go down with injuries, I just picked up the phone and called Coach Payton,'' McKenzie said. "When I left last March, he was real good about it. He said, 'Stay ready. And make sure you come around. Don't be a stranger.' So I called, and I told him I was in good shape and ready to play, and he said they were going to bring me in next Monday to look at me.''

"Did you think that would happen?'' I said.

"Who knows?'' McKenzie said. "But I'm glad I called. I didn't want to take any chances.''

With four corners injured, the Saints signed him after confirming that McKenzie, 33, was fully recovered from a fractured kneecap suffered Nov. 9, 2008, at Atlanta. That injury effectively ended his Saints' career ... for the time being, as it turned out.

McKenzie said he felt fully recovered by May. But after tearing his ACL in 2007 and fracturing the kneecap in 2008, he says his injury history and age conspired against him when he went mining for jobs last summer. Seattle and Houston worked him out, but neither offered a contract. So he spent the summer and fall staying in shape, going to college football games (a passion of his) and sitting in Reggie Bush's box at the Superdome at a couple of Saints games."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/12/01/mail/index.html




thunderkyss said:
I agree with the state & progress of their defense. I think it's exactly the same thing that I said.

I also think it has everything to do with what we're talking here. Payton is a good coach, it only took him 4 years to get the defense to respectability.
Gary Kubiak sucks because it took him 4 years to get the defense to respectability.
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The Saints have had a much better defense than the Texans have throughout this season. ANd what the hell do you keep bringing up Kubiak for? Are you that far up his ass that you can't even talk about some other HC without somehow turning it into a Kubiak Declaration?


thunderkyss said:
underachieving because they had enough talent that Payton was able to maximize on. I'm saying the same thing you are. you're just drawing dumb-ass conclusions from it.
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Dumb ass conclusions? Why don't you research a topic like this or at least have some sort of real memory before you spout off about it for a change. You've had inaccuracies all over the place in this thread.
 
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Texecutioner said:
The talent was not there at all.
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False.

The offense starts 11 guys. Bush brought in 1 player(Brees) who started from day one. All the other starters was already on the team.
Texecutioner said:
Again, you don't have clue of what you're talking about. McKenzie was out of a job and Peyton was the only guy to give him a real shot.
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Did you not click the link? It shows McKenzie as a Saint back to 2004. I could have been as rude as you, and said you don't know what you're talking about, but I'm trying to take the high road, & your attitude is making that difficult.
Texecutioner said:
"When I saw a few guys go down with injuries, I just picked up the phone and called Coach Payton,'' McKenzie said. "When I left last March, he was real good about it. He said, 'Stay ready. And make sure you come around. Don't be a stranger.'.....''
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When McKenzie said, "When I left"... what team was he leaving? Think about it. Reading comprehension 101.. ask your mom to help you out a bit.

He was on the street, because the Saints (Sean Payton in fact) that cut him.

You can't count McKenzie as one of the great Defensive player that Sean Payton brought to build that team. He was already there. Payton didn't like what he saw post injury, & cut him. Then after a few other injuries, Payton was desperate & took him back.
Texecutioner said:
With four corners injured, the Saints signed him after confirming that McKenzie, 33, was fully recovered from a fractured kneecap suffered Nov. 9, 2008, at Atlanta. That injury effectively ended his Saints' career ... for the time being, as it turned out.
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Do you know how irrelavant this story is if we're talking about a 2008 injury? McKenzis has been a New Orleans Saint since 2004.
Texecutioner said:
The Saints have had a much better defense than the Texans have throughout this season.
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Yup, just like I said. took 4 years. This season is Payton's 4th year.
Texecutioner said:
ANd what the hell do you keep bringing up Kubiak for? Are you that far up his ass that you can't even talk about some other HC without somehow turning it into a Kubiak Declaration?
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Yup.. I'm way up there. When you've got a thread on this board talking about what a good job another coach has done over the same tenure as Kubiak, you don't have to be much smarter than you to figure out what the ultimate goal is.

Every one of my responses is to provide the real facts.

The offense was loaded. They had the line, they had the skill players, they were just missing a QB.

Defense was more or less Overhauled. the DL pretty much the same 3 new starting LBs, and at least 2/4ths of the DBs were new to the team.

two offensive gurus take over two poor teams. One has "instant success" the other, not so much.

However, Payton had to add a QB to his team to get success out of them.

Kubiak has had to add a center a guard, two tackles, a fullback, a tight end, & a #2 wide receiver.

All the same, they both have been successful offensively.

Defensively, about the same. They started from pretty much the same spot. It took about the same time for the defenses to start contributing to the success of the team. It took us about 3 games longer, but basically the same.
Texecutioner said:
Dumb ass conclusions? Why don't you research a topic like this or at least have some sort of real memory before you spout off about it for a change. You've had inaccuracies all over the place in this thread.
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Dumb ass conclusion, yes. First you say that Payton added all the offensive talent that team needed to be successful, & even tried to contribute some of that early success to Reggie Bush.

Then you say that team overachieved as if they were more talented than what Jim Hasslette knew what to do with.

Both statements can't be true, unless you're trying to support an argument that is basically false.
 
thunderkyss said:
False.

The offense starts 11 guys. Bush brought in 1 player(Brees) who started from day one. All the other starters was already on the team.

Did you not click the link? It shows McKenzie as a Saint back to 2004. I could have been as rude as you, and said you don't know what you're talking about, but I'm trying to take the high road, & your attitude is making that difficult.

When McKenzie said, "When I left"... what team was he leaving? Think about it. Reading comprehension 101.. ask your mom to help you out a bit.

He was on the street, because the Saints (Sean Payton in fact) that cut him.

You can't count McKenzie as one of the great Defensive player that Sean Payton brought to build that team. He was already there. Payton didn't like what he saw post injury, & cut him. Then after a few other injuries, Payton was desperate & took him back.

Do you know how irrelavant this story is if we're talking about a 2008 injury? McKenzis has been a New Orleans Saint since 2004.

Yup, just like I said. took 4 years. This season is Payton's 4th year.

Yup.. I'm way up there. When you've got a thread on this board talking about what a good job another coach has done over the same tenure as Kubiak, you don't have to be much smarter than you to figure out what the ultimate goal is.

Every one of my responses is to provide the real facts.

The offense was loaded. They had the line, they had the skill players, they were just missing a QB.

Defense was more or less Overhauled. the DL pretty much the same 3 new starting LBs, and at least 2/4ths of the DBs were new to the team.

two offensive gurus take over two poor teams. One has "instant success" the other, not so much.

However, Payton had to add a QB to his team to get success out of them.

Kubiak has had to add a center a guard, two tackles, a fullback, a tight end, & a #2 wide receiver.

All the same, they both have been successful offensively.

Defensively, about the same. They started from pretty much the same spot. It took about the same time for the defenses to start contributing to the success of the team. It took us about 3 games longer, but basically the same.


Dumb ass conclusion, yes. First you say that Payton added all the offensive talent that team needed to be successful, & even tried to contribute some of that early success to Reggie Bush.

Then you say that team overachieved as if they were more talented than what Jim Hasslette knew what to do with.

Both statements can't be true, unless you're trying to support an argument that is basically false.
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This post is so full of inaccuracies once again, and you are so far down that road of clueless here that it doesn't matter what I show you or explain. It's hysterical at this point. You don't have a clue who the play makers even are on the Saints, or when they got there, or how they fit in the system, or the history in which certain players have stepped up. According to you, it's all been Brees and that's it. Only in your little world.


And the fact that you would even remotely try making a defensive argument for Kubes as oppose to Peyton at this point just makes it worse when I've tried and tried to keep Kubes out of this, but you're head is so far up his ass that it's pointless. Have fun in La La Land. I hear the drugs are nice. :worldpeace:

When you come back maybe you can tell me that Mangini is also having instant success the same way you claimed Linehan did. Lol!
 
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The Saint had an attitude adjustment as some point these last few years...now they play with confidence.

BTW..those all black uni's are really ugly.
 
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