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Slaton's Fumbling

eriadoc

eriadoc

Texan-American
... is killing me. I've always been of the mindset that I prefer a every-down back that can give me a steady diet of 4-yd. gains than one who takes losses and then pops a big one. I know different people have different views on that, so fine. Slaton clearly falls into the latter category, so it's always been hard for me to get behind him as an every-down back.

But the fumbles are killing whatever enthusiasm I force myself to come up with for the guy. I love the screens and pitches, as that's the role I envision for him anyway, but if he can't hang onto the ball, I don't want him on the field. If we can't run the ball, we may as well not have the associated fumbles. If he fumbles again next week, I'm starting the official "Fire Steve Slaton" thread.
 
Fumbles are part of the game. I would not go to that extreme you talk about in your post. He will work on it and cut them down imo, but if you are an aggressive back in the NFL, it will always be a part of the game.......
 
Slaton's tied with the league lead in fumbles with four. That doesn't count the several times fumbles have been overturned by replay. He puts the ball on the ground far too much for what he brings in the running game.

At this point, I would only use him for screens and as a receiver but someone else has got to run the rock IMO.
 
TEXANS4MARIO said:
Fumbles are part of the game. I would not go to that extreme you talk about in your post. He will work on it and cut them down imo, but if you are an aggressive back in the NFL, it will always be a part of the game.......
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He carries the ball in traffic the same way he carries it in the open field - out to the side, in the crook of his arm. You have to get two arms on the ball in traffic and get it in tight to your body. If he's been working on that, it sure isn't translating to his play, because we see the same thing in the replays every time.
 
eriadoc said:
He carries the ball in traffic the same way he carries it in the open field - out to the side, in the crook of his arm. You have to get two arms on the ball in traffic and get it in tight to your body. If he's been working on that, it sure isn't translating to his play, because we see the same thing in the replays every time.
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I saw some of it once he came back after his benching.
 
chris brown is the better RUNNING BACK this season. slaton needs to be relegated to a reggie bush receiver/decoy/screen type role until he figures it out. honestly, i really think brown and slaton should be reversed in their roles - brown toting the rock between the 20's and slaton giving us more options near the goalline and on short yardage situations. we block downhill with brown carrying, as opposed to hoping for a lane for slaton to find - creating excessive and unnecessary penetration against our weak interior line. bring in moats to split time with brown and mix slaton into the formations that work for the offense instead of forcing the offense through slaton.

and for the fumbles, slaton should absolutely be sat next week. we know kubiak is going to give his players every opportunity to try to make plays even more so when they're struggling (sage and schaub being the key examples), but this is getting out of hand. if we're counting the plays he's gotten an overturn from, slaton's averaging more than a fumble per game.
 
There is no way in hell Slaton should be benched. He is easily the best playmaker in the backfield and he poses a big threat every time he touches the ball, especially if they can get it to him on screen passes and such. He is much quicker and faster than Brown. He will get his fumblitis straightened out, even if it means giving up at the end of plays and going down. His fumbles are a result of him trying to do too much.
 
Scooter said:
chris brown is the better RUNNING BACK this season. slaton needs to be relegated to a reggie bush receiver/decoy/screen type role until he figures it out. honestly, i really think brown and slaton should be reversed in their roles - brown toting the rock between the 20's and slaton giving us more options near the goalline and on short yardage situations. we block downhill with brown carrying, as opposed to hoping for a lane for slaton to find - creating excessive and unnecessary penetration against our weak interior line. bring in moats to split time with brown and mix slaton into the formations that work for the offense instead of forcing the offense through slaton.

and for the fumbles, slaton should absolutely be sat next week. we know kubiak is going to give his players every opportunity to try to make plays even more so when they're struggling (sage and schaub being the key examples), but this is getting out of hand. if we're counting the plays he's gotten an overturn from, slaton's averaging more than a fumble per game.
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:gun:
 
Mailman said:
There is no way in hell Slaton should be benched. He is easily the best playmaker in the backfield and he poses a big threat every time he touches the ball, especially if they can get it to him on screen passes and such. He is much quicker and faster than Brown. He will get his fumblitis straightened out, even if it means giving up at the end of plays and going down. His fumbles are a result of him trying to do too much.
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Then why didn't he have this problem last year? And I dispute your contention that's he's the best playmaker in the backfield. Moats has been more effective this year. Why he's not playing more is a mystery to me.
 
Slatons fumbles are the OLs fault in my opinion. Slaton is having to fight for every yard like he's never had to before. He leaves himself open to guys stripping the ball more than any back Ive seen. He refuses to go down from the first hit.

Hes not coughing the ball up randomly. Those fumbles are the work of guys literally pulling and pulling at the ball.
 
He may not be benched, but this has become a common trend that is concering. It seems like his extra efforts are what's that problem with his fumblitis. Take what you can get and that's it. Better to be safe than to turn the ball over. Word.
 
i know it's procedure to see the points he's putting on the board, especially after a win, but how many points has slaton taken OFF the board? jets was inside the 20 (they scored off of). today was on the opponent's 33 (they scored off of). he has 5 other fumbles and two of them lost which i'll have to go back and find. is his dynamic play winning the numbers?
 
Marcus said:
Then why didn't he have this problem last year? And I dispute your contention that's he's the best playmaker in the backfield. Moats has been more effective this year. Why he's not playing more is a mystery to me.
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lol, there goes that credibility. Moats had one ok game. Slaton has scored 4 times in the past 2 weeks. Like the fumbles or not, he's been a HUGE factor for us. They announcers put up a stat today that said SLaton is 3rd in the NFL for total yards per game over the last 3 or 4 weeks.
 
gtexan02 said:
Slatons fumbles are the OLs fault in my opinion. Slaton is having to fight for every yard like he's never had to before. He leaves himself open to guys stripping the ball more than any back Ive seen. He refuses to go down from the first hit.

Hes not coughing the ball up randomly. Those fumbles are the work of guys literally pulling and pulling at the ball.
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And that's the part that's on him. When he gets in traffic, he needs to cover it up. No excuse for that.
 
eriadoc said:
And that's the part that's on him. When he gets in traffic, he needs to cover it up. No excuse for that.
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What I meant by "leaves himself open" is that whether hes got 2 hands or not, he's taking 2 or 3 seconds to go down every time he runs up ht emiddle. Most guys get hit, fall down. Slaton is getting stood up or trying to lose guys every single time he gets hit in the middle. As such, he's giving guys an extra 2 or 3 seconds to get other defenders in there to help strip the ball every single time.

The other problem with fumbling is that it begets more fumbling. You get labeled as a fumbler and guys start trying to stand you up and strip the ball
 
gtexan02 said:
chris brown as a goal line back - 1 td
steve slaton as open field back - 5 tds
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this can go on all day

steve slaton 91 carries - 1 TD
chris brown 32 carries - 1 TD

as a RUNNING BACK chris brown has been more effective, especially with a longer field. slaton has been at his best this season in open field as a receiver and screen runner. as a RUNNING BACK steve slaton's biggest mark has been his inability to hold onto the ball.

i've got all the confidence in the world that he's going to get it fixed, but right now it seems i'm talking to saints fans 2 years ago.
 
Scooter said:
this can go on all day

steve slaton 91 carries - 1 TD
chris brown 32 carries - 1 TD

as a RUNNING BACK chris brown has been more effective, especially with a longer field. slaton has been at his best this season in open field as a receiver and screen runner. as a RUNNING BACK steve slaton's biggest mark has been his inability to hold onto the ball.

i've got all the confidence in the world that he's going to get it fixed, but right now it seems i'm talking to saints fans 2 years ago.
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What you seem to be missing is we aren't running the ball very effectively no matter who is in the game. We still can't punch it in when we are in the red zone and our interior line is one of the worst in football. Slaton gives us a much better chance at scoring than Brown does and at the end of the day, that is what counts. Once again, I'll take Slaton and his fumblitis.

Also, your stats are skewed because Brown has been our goal line back the entire season and has had WAY more opportunities to score running the football than Slaton has.
 
gtexan02 said:
What I meant by "leaves himself open" is that whether hes got 2 hands or not, he's taking 2 or 3 seconds to go down every time he runs up ht emiddle. Most guys get hit, fall down. Slaton is getting stood up or trying to lose guys every single time he gets hit in the middle. As such, he's giving guys an extra 2 or 3 seconds to get other defenders in there to help strip the ball every single time.

The other problem with fumbling is that it begets more fumbling. You get labeled as a fumbler and guys start trying to stand you up and strip the ball
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He's getting hit in the backfield a lot. I spend a good portion of every game cursing the OL. But have you noticed the difference in blocking when Chris Brown is in vs. when Slaton is in? Chris Brown has been pretty productive for what little opportunity he's received. He's not going to hit any home runs, but look at the long run he had today. What was it? 10-12 yards? Something like that. Anyway, that run was 100% on the OL. Why aren't those holes available for Slaton? I think they block differently when Slaton is in there. Or rather, they are trying to do something different, anyway.

That's all an aside, though. Slaton's fumbled in the backfield, on the outside, and up the field. He just needs to recognize when to wrap it up.
 
Ckw5814 said:
I'll take Jacksonville and Arizona for 2000, Alex.
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I think it's a stretch to say Brown cost us the AZ and JAX games all by himself. The fumble in the EZ was horrible but Earl Campbell wouldn't get a yard with the blocking on the AZ goal line play.

Not to mention the fact that even if we would've gotten both TD's it would've only tied the game.
 
Scooter said:
this can go on all day

steve slaton 91 carries - 1 TD
chris brown 32 carries - 1 TD

as a RUNNING BACK chris brown has been more effective, especially with a longer field. slaton has been at his best this season in open field as a receiver and screen runner. as a RUNNING BACK steve slaton's biggest mark has been his inability to hold onto the ball.

i've got all the confidence in the world that he's going to get it fixed, but right now it seems i'm talking to saints fans 2 years ago.
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This is a ridiculous argument, its like you're assuming that running backs only job is to take the football and run the ball. They also have responsibilities as blockers (Slaton gets the nod) and in our offense, they have to function as a viable passing threat (Slaton gets the nod). Saying who is better running the ball between the tackles is only part of the battle. Slaton wouldn't be catching any passes if he wasn't in the game. He's not an every down WR. He's a pass catching RB, and a HUGE part of our scoring offense. To say that he's not a runningback because he isn't pounding the ball with effectiveness (this year) just doesn't make sense.

And PS: Slaton scored his 2nd rushing touchdown today

Heres another one:
Steve Slaton - 110 rushing attempts, 4 fumbles lost (once per ~28)
Chris Brown - 36 attempts, 1 fumble lost (once per 36 attempts)

Its not like Brown is immune to turnovers.

Brown is averaging 3.3 yards per carry this season
Slaton is averaging 3.1

I'll take the receiving, blocking threat
 
TheIronDuke said:
I think it's a stretch to say Brown cost us the AZ and JAX games all by himself. The fumble in the EZ was horrible but Earl Campbell wouldn't get a yard with the blocking on the AZ goal line play.

Not to mention the fact that even if we would've gotten both TD's it would've only tied the game.
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Pantherstang84 said:
What is no push from the interior of the offensive line?
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We'll have to agree to disagree. If it were Slaton running the ball in those situations, it is highly doubtful you would be using these excuses. Instead, you are taking the emotional route calling for the backup to take over. Guys calling for Brown are probably the same guys that were calling for Sage to start over Schaub.
 
Ckw5814 said:
I'll take Jacksonville and Arizona for 2000, Alex.
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Umm, no. First of all, it is very, very rare for a player to lose a game single-handedly. We're talking three turnovers in the final five minutes with one being a flying helicopter fumble here. Second of all, Chris Brown's fumble on the goal line was a helluva lot more defensible than just about any Slaton fumble this year. Finally, the other game you're trying to pin on him was when he got tackled in his own backfield by Chris Myers and Mike Brisiel. So there was nothing single-handed about that. It was a team effort by the OL. I guess we could give some credit to the Arizona DL, but I'm not feeling particularly charitable.

As a playmaker, Slaton has the ability to change the game on any given play. And he has, in favor of our team as well as the other.
 
TheIronDuke said:
I think it's a stretch to say Brown cost us the AZ and JAX games all by himself. The fumble in the EZ was horrible but Earl Campbell wouldn't get a yard with the blocking on the AZ goal line play.

Not to mention the fact that even if we would've gotten both TD's it would've only tied the game.
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The Jax game was going into overtime. Whoever would have won the toss would have won the game, neither defense played that dday.

We had completely dominated the AZ game from the 2nd half on. They had scored 0 offensive points and had almost no yards. If we had tied it, I'm pretty sure we woul dhave won that game
 
gtexan02 said:
This is a ridiculous argument, its like you're assuming that running backs only job is to take the football and run the ball. They also have responsibilities as blockers (Slaton gets the nod) and in our offense, they have to function as a viable passing threat (Slaton gets the nod). Saying who is better running the ball between the tackles is only part of the battle. Slaton wouldn't be catching any passes if he wasn't in the game. He's not an every down WR. He's a pass catching RB, and a HUGE part of our scoring offense. To say that he's not a runningback because he isn't pounding the ball with effectiveness (this year) just doesn't make sense.

And PS: Slaton scored his 2nd rushing touchdown today

Heres another one:
Steve Slaton - 110 rushing attempts, 4 fumbles lost (once per ~28)
Chris Brown - 36 attempts, 1 fumble lost (once per 36 attempts)

Its not like Brown is immune to turnovers.

Brown is averaging 3.3 yards per carry this season
Slaton is averaging 3.1

I'll take the receiving, blocking threat
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Don't waste your time, man. Great posts throughout the thread, but this is just like the Schaub vs. Sage argument. The backup is always everyone's favorite guy. The same guys calling for Brown will probably be praising Kubiak for sticking with Slaton when Slaton gets this problem fixed. Chris Brown is an average runner and a below average running back.
 
Mailman said:
There is no way in hell Slaton should be benched. He is easily the best playmaker in the backfield and he poses a big threat every time he touches the ball, especially if they can get it to him on screen passes and such. He is much quicker and faster than Brown. He will get his fumblitis straightened out, even if it means giving up at the end of plays and going down. His fumbles are a result of him trying to do too much.
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agreed. Plus, some fumbles are just going to happen no matter who the back is and has everything to do with the determination of the defense....
 
In medical news today it was announced that an unnamed hospital in Houston performed the first succesful double hand transplant on two NFL players.

A Mr. Jacoby Jones and Steve Slaton switched hands. It was the first succesful operation of this magnitude, however some Houston Sports Fans were skeptical of the operation.



STEVE SLATON IS THE NEW JACOBY JONES!!!!!! WRITE IT DOWN...
 
For the record, I want to see Moats get some carries. I'm not pimping Chris Brown at all, I don't blame him for the AZ and JAX losses though.
 
i'm going to just have to disagree and step aside. chris brown has been the better running back who would benefit from slaton coming in as a threat afterwards to run, screen, split wide, or block. i'm also comfortable in my assumption that had the game ended differently, this discussion would be taking a wholly different perspective.
 
eriadoc said:
Umm, no. First of all, it is very, very rare for a player to lose a game single-handedly. We're talking three turnovers in the final five minutes with one being a flying helicopter fumble here. Second of all, Chris Brown's fumble on the goal line was a helluva lot more defensible than just about any Slaton fumble this year. Finally, the other game you're trying to pin on him was when he got tackled in his own backfield by Chris Myers and Mike Brisiel. So there was nothing single-handed about that. It was a team effort by the OL. I guess we could give some credit to the Arizona DL, but I'm not feeling particularly charitable.
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Call it what you want but the entire reason Brown has been our goal line back is because he is supposed to be the guy that can get the push Steve Slaton can't get. Blame the line all you want but Brown did not do his job in either of those two games and because of it, we lost both of those games.

As a playmaker, Slaton has the ability to change the game on any given play. And he has, in favor of our team as well as the other.
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I think you are nuts if you think Slaton has not done more to help us win than help us lose. Perhaps that is not what you are saying, but he has done way more to keep us in games and remains a playmaker. As others have stated, the guy needs to stop trying to do so much once the play is over. He just needs to get that knee down and end the play.
 
Scooter said:
i'm going to just have to disagree and step aside. chris brown has been the better running back who would benefit from slaton coming in as a threat afterwards to run, screen, split wide, or block. i'm also comfortable in my assumption that had the game ended differently, this discussion would be taking a wholly different perspective.
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Steve Slaton's two big touchdowns most certainly offset his fumble. Respectfully, I will have to disagree.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Don't waste your time, man. Great posts throughout the thread, but this is just like the Schaub vs. Sage argument. The backup is always everyone's favorite guy.
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Nah, not really at all. I like Slaton in a certain role, and he's being thrust into a role that I don't believe suits him. That's OK though, as long as he produces. Turnovers are killer, though. And I don't really have any affinity for Chris Brown at all. I don't care if they put him back there, Moats, Arian Foster, or Ron Dayne. Just put someone back there who holds onto the damn ball. Then you do with Slaton what you did with Jacoby - give him limited opportunities to make plays until he comes around. In Slaton's case, screens, pitches, and a few downfield passes are where he's best anyway.
 
The only thing that needs to be said from me about this thread....I'd rather have Jonathon Wells and Ron Dayne. Use Slaton as a receiver only, he's just terrible running the ball. Like someone has said before, you need one yard, Dayne will get you 3. If you need 10, Dayne will get you 3.

Slaton's fumbling is wearing me down.
 
Ckw5814 said:
Steve Slaton's two big touchdowns most certainly offset his fumble.
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If you believe that, then fine. However, I tend to believe most fans have a sense of situational momentum that affects the game. Slaton's TDs in the first half were great. But in the second half, all he did was help hand the game to the 49ers.

It's not a zero sum game. Hell, you still have people in Houston blaming Warren Moon, of all people, for 35-3.
 
Ckw5814 said:
We'll have to agree to disagree. If it were Slaton running the ball in those situations, it is highly doubtful you would be using these excuses. Instead, you are taking the emotional route calling for the backup to take over. Guys calling for Brown are probably the same guys that were calling for Sage to start over Schaub.
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Don't be putting words in my mouth pawdna. Just stating the obvious that the interior line is weak this year and we could get no push in both of those games.

Funny though...

Chris Brown 1 fumble = horrible
Slaton 4 fumbles = play maker

Just getting tired of seeing the rock on the ground. Owen Daniels included.
 
Do you guys have any idea how many times Adrian Peterson fumbled last year?

The Vikings have a very good backup running back who is very good at receiving the ball out of the backfield, especially on third down passing situations. Childress uses Chester Taylor frequently in those situations, but he never benched AD because of AD's fumbles.

Slaton is our AD. We all agree that he must protect the ball better, but his turnovers are not causing us to lose games. However, if Kubes were to bench him to send a message, there's a greater likelihood that the Texans lose because opposing defenses wouldn't have to stay home to guard against Slaton. The Texans offense is predicated on play action and keeping the opposing team off-balance. Benching Steve Slaton would only help the other team.
 
Mailman said:
Do you guys have any idea how many times Adrian Peterson fumbled last year?

The Vikings have a very good backup running back who is very good at receiving the ball out of the backfield, especially on third down passing situations. Childress uses Chester Taylor frequently in those situations, but he never benched AD because of AD's fumbles.

Slaton is our AD. We all agree that he must protect the ball better, but his turnovers are not causing us to lose games. However, if Kubes were to bench him to send a message, there's a greater likelihood that the Texans lose because opposing defenses wouldn't have to stay home to guard against Slaton. The Texans offense is predicated on play action and keeping the opposing team off-balance. Benching Steve Slaton would only help the other team.
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9. he lost 4 last season. slaton has 6 and lost 4 through 7 games. peterson ran for 1700+ yards. is that really a comparrison you're comfortable with?
 
Scooter said:
9. he lost 4 last season. slaton has 6 and lost 4 through 7 games. peterson ran for 1700+ yards. is that really a comparrison you're comfortable with?
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Yes, it absolutely is a comparison I'm comfortable with because the point is sound. I am not making a overall comparison between AD and Slaton but a statement about the relative value each player brings to his respective team and how that value is affected by each player's difficulties protecting the ball.

Steve Slaton is a pivotal piece of the offensive puzzle, just as AD was last year to the Vikings. Benching him because of a ball protection slump would be very unwise.


ETA: Slaton fumbled all of three times last year.
 
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