Is our Oline looking any better so far?

Well, I think we can all agree that the Oline last year was the most horrible part of our team by miles. We couldn't pass block, and we could hardly run block. We got some new guys at the line, but they don't sound like immediate contributors. For the most part, it looks like the same personel from last year, which kinda worries me.

I would like to say it was the difficulty in learning a new system and not the players, but to my knowlege, pass blocking does not change in the new zoneblocking system. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that, because if I'm not, I'm rather pessimistic about out Oline situation. That would mean that the problem is the talent and not the system.

As for our D, it really sucks that we are losing our 2 starting middle linebackers (Sharper and Foreman), but I really have faith in Capers as a defensive coach and think he will end up getting the job done. But right now I'm still worried about our offensive line.

The guy that worries me the most is McKinney, simply becuase he is a seasoned vet and has probably all ready gotten as good as he's going to get. At least with Wand you can make the case he's young and should get better. I'm really worried and I'm just keeping my fingers crossed. I really beleive our coaching staff is taking a gamble on this one and are banking their future on whether or not the oline actually deserves their pay this year. They must have a plan, thats all I can hope for, that they have some kind of plan.

phan1 said:

Well, I think we can all agree that the Oline last year was the most horrible part of our team by miles. We couldn't pass block, and we could hardly run block. We got some new guys at the line, but they don't sound like immediate contributors. For the most part, it looks like the same personel from last year, which kinda worries me.

I would like to say it was the difficulty in learning a new system and not the players, but to my knowlege, pass blocking does not change in the new zoneblocking system. Please correct me if I'm wrong on that, because if I'm not, I'm rather pessimistic about out Oline situation. That would mean that the problem is the talent and not the system.

As for our D, it really sucks that we are losing our 2 starting middle linebackers (Sharper and Foreman), but I really have faith in Capers as a defensive coach and think he will end up getting the job done. But right now I'm still worried about our offensive line.

Click to expand...

Capers and Casserly addressed the problem this offseason when they sat down and talked to Chris Palmer about the problems with his protection schemes. For instance, "Chris, we thought that next season when we play Indy, maybe you could use a RB or TE or someone else to help Seth Wand block Freeney on obvious passing downs. As it turns out, Jonathan Ogden can't handle him by himself either... just a thought, Chris."-

So, just based on that conversation, I expect Carr to have more time to throw this season.

Reasons Carr will have more protection next year:

1. This is the first year that our Oline has actually returned to play the next season.

2. Last year we had 2 new linemen, and one lineman changing positions.. as well as a whole new blocking scheme to learn.. they will be better this year.

3. We are going to use more timing routes to get the ball out of Carrs hands quicker.

4. As was already said.. we have talked to Palmer.

5. With a more dominant running game, defenses will not be able to zero in on Carr.. hence the drafting of Vernand Morency. Also, the zone blocking makes our running game better.. you saw it at the end of last season, it will most likely carry over to this season.

6. Same with the passing game.. more timing routes, a better running game and (hopefully) the addition of Mathis will improve that.. Mathis may not make an impact till next season though.

7. Bennie Joppru

The short answer is, yes there is room for hope (see above), but nothing yet to prove it true.

you know i was sitting here thinking bout how in Minn. or how it used to be called the randy moss factor well i think our biggest problem is called the palmer factor IMO haha. naw im j/k the guy either calls really good plays or some really really bad ones.

The organization has taken dramatic steps to elevate the play of the OL by
drafting a center in the 5th round and signing a couple of other undrafted college OLineman. I'm of course being sarcastic, because the team has basically done little more than squat in the offseason to improve O line play
ffor 2005. I dunno...one of their stategies is to have DC take a shorter, quicker drop when passing and to me that's just an admission of the lines
basic weakness. Its a little bit like the Dutch boy sticking his finger in the damn to prevent the flood, if one is familiar with that fable.

The right side of the line was playing through injuries and the the left side of the line was playing their respective positions for the first time in the NFL. McKinney was the only lineman that did poorly without a good excuse.

nunusguy said:

The organization has taken dramatic steps to elevate the play of the OL by
drafting a center in the 5th round and signing a couple of other undrafted college OLineman. I'm of course being sarcastic, because the team has basically done little more than squat in the offseason to improve O line play
ffor 2005. I dunno...one of their stategies is to have DC take a shorter, quicker drop when passing and to me that's just an admission of the lines
basic weakness. Its a little bit like the Dutch boy sticking his finger in the damn to prevent the flood, if one is familiar with that fable.

Click to expand...

I agree. The team admitted that the offensive line was one of their areas of focus needing improvement going into the offseason. So far this offseason they haven't done anything in the free agent market and didn't draft anyone there until the 5th round. So you're right they haven't done squat to address an admitted need. So, at this point, CC has 2 options on how to spin this thing:

1) "Cra.p, we are still stuck with those same 5 stooges from last year on the offensive line. Hopefully Carr can survive somehow another year."

2) "We're confident that new blocking schemes and the added year of experience will allow our unit of fine offensive lineman to gel into a cohesive group in 2005".

It appears they have chosen the more politically correct option 2.

To me, an important point here is this. Both the fans on this board and the team recognized the offensive line as a problem area. But you can only fix a subset of your problem areas and you first fix those areas where you place the highest priority. It seems obvious the team considered the offensive line problem lower in the pecking order of problems to be fixed than many of the fans on this board. That's why you are hearing the frustration you do. Personally, I would have placed the offensive line issue much higher on the pecking order than the Texans appear to have placed it. Again, personally, I wish Casserly and Capers would for just 5 minutes stop worrying about/tinkering with/trading out/spending time on our group of linebackers and spend that 5 minutes thinking about what to do about our offensive line. In fact, Casserly, Capers and staff met last week to talk about our team and I got a sneak peak at the afternoon agenda:

1:00pm-1:15pm Opening remarks
1:15pm-1:30pm Discuss draft choices and plan for rookie camp
1:30pm-3:00pm Linebacker discussion-what additional changes are needed
3:00pm-3:30pm Defense (ex. linebackers)
3:30pm-3:45pm Qb's/Rb's/WR's
3:45pm-3:55pm Special teams
3:55pm-4:00pm Toro/cheerleaders/offensive line (scratch this topic if we are running behind schedule)
4:00pm-5:00pm Special issues re: David Carr (update on breakthrough technology-high strength padding for ribs, joints, etc.)
5:00pm Adjourn

This was considered the worst OL draft in 20 years. You don't build a good team by reaching on players.

They drafted a Dlineman, CB (counting PB as our second pick in this draft
is logical and Cass has said just that),RB, & WR before they drafted a Olineman. Especially when you consider what ole man McNair said at the end of last season after the Clevland embaresment when he practically guaranteed they would improve protection for DC and knowing we got zippo
OL pickups in FA (forget about their efforts to trade for Pace - this isn't horseshoes - close doesn't count), anybody see any problem with how the
Texans' Draft day priorities turned out ?

my problem with the o-line is if wade or wand go down look at who we have to back them up...wand isn't even a solid starter himself...but right now we have this nobody jones and beasley and then a bunch of UDFA's...i just don't like the idea of one of those tackles getting injuried and then us left moving around a bunch of o-lineman...i would guess we would move wiegert to RT and have one of the back ups fill in at RG...personally i was more comfortable with pitts playing LT than i am with wand but that's just me

Personally I dont. If you have played football at a higher level than high school you know that an O-line that plays together for an extended period time gets better. That is the thought here. I mean the HOGS of the old redskins days were not that good until a year or two of playing together (used that reference cause a special was on ESPN Classic last night). I like most of our draft, I dont like Morency and Brown, and I believe those picks could have been better used on a CB, DL, OL, or later round RB. I also dont like the fact that we did not go after some of the better undrafted freeagents such as Jamal Brimmer, Walter Reyes, Ben Wilkerson, or Earnest Shazor. But I am not gonna ***** about it, because I feel that we have improved in some areas. LB is not one and we are weaker at CB now, but other areas that we focused on have improved, wait am i contradicting myself. Ahhh nevermind, but we did address our number 1 concern this offseason and that is getting speed and fixing the system. Looking forward to our season.

geofb wrote this -

1:00pm-1:15pm Opening remarks
1:15pm-1:30pm Discuss draft choices and plan for rookie camp
1:30pm-3:00pm Linebacker discussion-what additional changes are needed
3:00pm-3:30pm Defense (ex. linebackers)
3:30pm-3:45pm Qb's/Rb's/WR's
3:45pm-3:55pm Special teams
3:55pm-4:00pm Toro/cheerleaders/offensive line (scratch this topic if we are running behind schedule)
4:00pm-5:00pm Special issues re: David Carr (update on breakthrough technology-high strength padding for ribs, joints, etc.)
5:00pm Adjourn

I don't know about you guys, but it had me LMAO.....I'm still getting recurring giggles from it. hahahaha, I couldn't agree with this more.

I love it.........the O-LINE is addressed right in there with the Mascot and the Cheerleaders......haahahhaa..........this is classic........thanks geofb.

At least our coaching staff is good for something......(making fun of)

"scratch this topic if we are running behind schedule" hahahahaaha
they must've been behind schedule all off season? Maybe that's why they haven't addressed the need.

I've got an idea, somebody assassinate Mckinney, or just Adultnap him?
Then maybe they'd have to find a decent replacement ?

hahahaha.....and the part about david carr needing special new equipment......its so true, its funny.

Thanks geofb..............keep em' comin'

Casserly talking to Capers after the meeting, "Should we sign another linebacker though?" "I'm sure there's another guy that we could overpay, that runs fast and might work?"

Capers replies, "Well we only have 12 linebackers, so I think we could find room for at least 8 more." "Just release some of those promising, young corners".

keyfro said:

my problem with the o-line is if wade or wand go down look at who we have to back them up...wand isn't even a solid starter himself...but right now we have this nobody jones and beasley and then a bunch of UDFA's

Click to expand...

Wiegert can play RT. He did it with Jacksonville. If Wade went down for any reasonable amount of time, then Wiegert would move to RT. If Wand went down, then I think we do a double switch with Wade at LT and Wiegert at RT. We have plenty of guys that could fill in for Wiegert at RG.

Remember FA isn't over yet. There may be 1 or 2 gems available after 1 Jun.

I also agree with what the others said, stability can be a great thing for a line. Another year of experience for the players and in the scheme should help. Health should help. Modifying the protections and mixing up the drops should help. An even better running game should help. Better defense and special teams should take pressure off the offense.

Homer optimism running rampant!

Grid said:

Reasons Carr will have more protection next year:

1. This is the first year that our Oline has actually returned to play the next season.

2. Last year we had 2 new linemen, and one lineman changing positions.. as well as a whole new blocking scheme to learn.. they will be better this year.

3. We are going to use more timing routes to get the ball out of Carrs hands quicker.

4. As was already said.. we have talked to Palmer.

5. With a more dominant running game, defenses will not be able to zero in on Carr.. hence the drafting of Vernand Morency. Also, the zone blocking makes our running game better.. you saw it at the end of last season, it will most likely carry over to this season.

6. Same with the passing game.. more timing routes, a better running game and (hopefully) the addition of Mathis will improve that.. Mathis may not make an impact till next season though.

7. Bennie Joppru

Click to expand...

You left out one important point ....


8. They cant do any worse ...... or can they ?

corrosion said:

You left out one important point ....


8. They cant do any worse ...... or can they ?

Click to expand...

we do have a record breaking Oline :woot

The problems we should have addressed last year were both the O line AND the D line. On the surface it appeared that we did address the O line in offseason moves last year and while changing the blocking scheme. The problem is that Palmer (i d i o t) didn't watch enough film to know that Carr would need the additional pass protection from either lining up the TE behind the LT or in using the fullback as more of a pass blocker. Jeez, who can't figure that one out? But again, last year it was said that we would be using more 2 TE formations and that should've been adequate but it wasn't.

This year should've been the year we addressed the D line since we supposedly addressed the O line last year and what did we do? 16th pick we took Travis Johnson who might end up being pretty good. We signed Seth Payne to some ridiculous contract for someone his age and, once again, coming off a season ending injury. Just stupid in my opinion. Once again we have absolutely no depth on the D line unless you call Travis Johnson the depth. Now if we took Johnson to replace Gary Walker then what kind of a bonehead move was that last year by giving him a ridiculous contract?

Either way, if we have more than one injury on either of the O and D lines, we're screwed. We have no depth on either lines and we still haven't addressed it. But I'll tell you this...the next coaching staff will.

I think that our o line will improve, I mean if they are healthy the right side of the line can be dominant in the running game. The left side has had it's ups and downs and will only improve with time. McKinney has problems with big DTs but is there and C in the league that has not had problems with Stroud, Henderson or Hayesworth?

Our receivers are not known for running precise routes which is required for timing routes. I'm well aware of what excellent receivers running precise routes can do to another team. I will let others comment on the ins and out of this process, but I'm concerned about our receivers ability to get to the spots on time as well as remembering where they are suppose to go. AJ needs to work on routes and so does Mathis. To rely on this as a way to shore up the O-line does bother me given the tendencies of our receivers. Everything points to BJ as being a plus in this area, but he hasn't played for quite awhile. If Carr can release to Mathis deep in a shorter period of time because of his speed, then we might catch a team or two by surprise, but that would be picked up on in a hurry. Therefore, I really believe the O-line itself must give David more time if we are to be successful offensively. I don't believe the timing routes are going to be effective until David is given more time. He throws a line drive, and if the receiver isn't on the same page, you could see a lot of interceptions. The other team is going to try disrupt what the receiver is trying to do. This means your receivers have to be able to get off the line of scrimmage, fake their coverage and get to the spot on time. If the defense is better at running your patterns than you are then you are in a lot of trouble. For example, Manning and Harrison work endless hours at this process. I do not see or hear of our receivers and David putting in the required time to run these kinds of routes. I believe AJ goes to Florida and Carr stays in Houston. These two need to know each other like the back of your hand. That's what makes affective combinations like Unitis to Barry, Star to McGee, Montana to Rice, and Manning to Harrison. They literally can run their routes in the dark. These combinations also have had the uncanny ability of knowing when the other is deviating and adjust accordingly. Its poetry in motion.

Hey, I dont care how good your QB is...speaking as a College DE

If a D-line can just pressure a QB and make him un comfortble...hes not gonna be able to play his best. His throws will be off and he will always be looking for the hit instead of downfield....D Lines LOVE to hear that they are playing a team with a weak O Line because they know thats the core of the Offense....nothing can happen if the O line dosent get it done....WE HAVE GOT TO GET AN O LINE IF WE WANT SUCCESS.

well even though Carr has taken his share of hits his first three years I think the O-Line will one part of the team that acctually surprises some people this year. Don't ask me why but I get the feeling that your line will do good, not great but good enough to let Carr, Davis/Morency have good season's and produce big numbers for you guys.