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If Crabtree is at 15...

T

The1ApplePie

Hall of Fame
Do you want the Texans to take him?

A lot of experts have no WRs going top 10 and Crabtree could be there at 15 if someone falls for Maclin's speed.

So, would you be happy with Crabtree-Slaton-AJ destroying the NFL for years or would you still want defense?
 
Personally, I'm more inclined to taking Maclin. I'm not interested in Crabtree with our 15.
 
ding ding ding ding ding!

time to bank on draft picks with a trade down.

btw, what's your fixation on drafting a receiver high anyways, apple? you and thunder are the only one who feels like WR is a need on this board... a bit peculiar to me since I thought it was a consensus on this board that WR is our deepest position.

Kevin Walter is a solid #2. DA is a great slot receiver and AD is great insurance policy for AJ and can do special team duty. JJ still has load of potential and is an explosive PR. Don't see why we need another receiver, especially high.
 
If a talent like Crabtree is there, it'd probably best for our team to do a trade down, but just think of the torture our opponents secondary would have to go through covering AJ, Crabtree, Walter, Daniels, etc.:fans:
 
J-Russ said:
ding ding ding ding ding!

time to bank on draft picks with a trade down.

btw, what's your fixation on drafting a receiver high anyways, apple? you and thunder are the only one who feels like WR is a need on this board... a bit peculiar to me since I thought it was a consensus on this board that WR is our deepest position.

Kevin Walter is a solid #2. DA is a great slot receiver and AD is great insurance policy for AJ and can do special team duty. JJ still has load of potential and is an explosive PR. Don't see why we need another receiver, especially high.
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The Texans defense is terrible and it will take several drafts to fix it. Better IMO to get a No. 1a WR and build the offense to true elite status. The Texans aren't going to win games, let alone playoff births with defensive struggles. I'd rather pair AJ with a stud to shred defenses than waste a pick on another Amobi Okoye that only hinders the team's development
 
J-Russ said:
ding ding ding ding ding!you and thunder are the only one who feels like WR is a need on this board... a bit peculiar to me since I thought it was a consensus on this board that WR is our deepest position.
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who said anything about need?
 
The1ApplePie said:
The Texans defense is terrible and it will take several drafts to fix it. Better IMO to get a No. 1a WR and build the offense to true elite status. The Texans aren't going to win games, let alone playoff births with defensive struggles. I'd rather pair AJ with a stud to shred defenses than waste a pick on another Amobi Okoye that only hinders the team's development
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Yes our defense is terrible; it'll get better quicker if we use our high picks to fix the holes on defense. To postpone fixing those holes on defense will only delay their progress, of course.

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure we had a top 10 offense last year, which would put us as borderline elite, if not elite. Even so, our biggest problem was turning the ball over, not our WR. Those turnovers were mainly from QB, so if anything, our starting QB is a bigger problem then our WR. If we do fix the turnover problems, then there will be nothing stopping us from becoming an elite offense; if we're not considered one already.

thunderkyss said:
who said anything about need?
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a trophy player? if he's not a need then why do we need him? seems like that would be a waste of a pick.
 
Yes our defense is terrible; it'll get better quicker if we use our high picks to fix the holes on defense. To postpone fixing those holes on defense will only delay their progress, of course.

I don't know, but I'm pretty sure we had a top 10 offense last year, which would put us as borderline elite, if not elite. Even so, our biggest problem was turning the ball over, not our WR. Those turnovers were mainly from QB, so if anything, our starting QB is a bigger problem then our WR. If we do fix the turnover problems, then there will be nothing stopping us from becoming an elite offense; if we're not considered one already.
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Follow the Colts, Rams, and to a lesser extent, the Cardinals. Keep adding high picks to the offense and get just enough defense to get you to the promised land.

Fans here want to be the Eagles or Giants. Wrong teams to follow, as they and their success are nothing like the Texans
 
take him. TAKE HIM. TAKE HIM!!!!!

for the most part i lean towards the need first side of the draft spectrum but this is lining up two AJ's opposite each other with KW being the third one in DA playing slot JJ being the specialist and AJ... well he'd probably be cut but still. it's not a need but if we put up 40 a game it doesn't really matter how bad our defense is... well it can't be Denver bad but you know.
 
The1ApplePie said:
Follow the Colts, Rams, and to a lesser extent, the Cardinals. Keep adding high picks to the offense and get just enough defense to get you to the promised land.

Fans here want to be the Eagles or Giants. Wrong teams to follow, as they and their success are nothing like the Texans
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So you are saying pretty much that since we have never had a good defense we never will so don't bother? Please correct me if I'm wrong and explain what you mean by this.
 
Jackie Chiles said:
So you are saying pretty much that since we have never had a good defense we never will so don't bother? Please correct me if I'm wrong and explain what you mean by this.
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The Eagles, Steelers, and Giants win by pounding the rock and crushing opponents with violent stunting and bltizing defenses. Many fans on this board want this to be the Texans. That is sadly an empty dream

Except for a few rare exceptions, thanks to cap space, you are either an offensive or defensive team. There is no real room for balance in the modern NFL. Trying to be a power-run and blistering defense cuts exactly against the grain of what the Texans are.

Draft Crabtree or Maclin and defeat the Titans by dropping 40 points on them and forcing VY to thrown instead of trying to slug it out with Smash and Dash. Match the Colts in points and force the Colts offense to one dimension instead of worrying about Addadi as much as Manning.

Adding Crabtree or Maclin helps the team much more than adding Cushing to the defense. They take the team to the next level while any medicore defensive talent is another cog in a broken down machine
 
Personally I'd pass on him.

Looking through front office eyes though, I say that if noone offers the right price for a trade down and he is the highest rated player on their board that they take him.
 
Crabtree won't make it past Jacksonville....

And I'm praying he's not on the board when they draft, I don't want to play against him 2x a year.
 
I like Crabtree, I do, but no way I take him at 15 nor do I think he will be there, he will make some team very happy though. I think Maclin is a better fit because of the return ability/experience he has, but I don't want him. We have to go defense with that pick (preferably CB - I think we take Davis out of Illinois) or trade back and take the BPA approach, IMO. WR is just not near a priority as other needs.

If for some reason we go offense in the first round, anywhere in the first round I hope it's Moreno, I have been high on this guy, I will pass on Beanie Wells all day long, I think he's going to be a huge letdown. Just for value sake, if you want to bring in a WR that makes Jacoby a little more expendable or pushed to develop who can contribute right away, especially as a solid, reliable return man and who we know is already mature. Quan Cosby will be available in the middle rounds and I think is going to end up being great value pick and good pro.
 
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The1ApplePie said:
The Eagles, Steelers, and Giants win by pounding the rock and crushing opponents with violent stunting and bltizing defenses. Many fans on this board want this to be the Texans. That is sadly an empty dream

Except for a few rare exceptions, thanks to cap space, you are either an offensive or defensive team. There is no real room for balance in the modern NFL. Trying to be a power-run and blistering defense cuts exactly against the grain of what the Texans are.

Draft Crabtree or Maclin and defeat the Titans by dropping 40 points on them and forcing VY to thrown instead of trying to slug it out with Smash and Dash. Match the Colts in points and force the Colts offense to one dimension instead of worrying about Addadi as much as Manning.

Adding Crabtree or Maclin helps the team much more than adding Cushing to the defense. They take the team to the next level while any medicore defensive talent is another cog in a broken down machine
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The year the Rams won the superbowl they had the 6th best defense in the league...

The year the Colts won the superbowl their defense gelled towards the end of the season and they had the #1 defense in the postseason. Before that no matter how many times they had all these great offenses they never did anything.....even when they were breaking records.

A main reason why the Patriots won 3 superbowls was because of defense, even when they gave Brady all these offensive weapons and they went 16-0, they lost the Superbowl because their defense got too old. Once they had a defense that could stop Peyton Manning dead when he was in his absolute prime, then they had a defense that couldn't even stop Eli Manning. Eli isn't Peyton (I think he's highly overrated)

We can get all the offensive talent we want, but we aren't going to go anywhere that we really want to go (playoffs) until the defense improves.
 
The1ApplePie said:
The Eagles, Steelers, and Giants win by pounding the rock and crushing opponents with violent stunting and bltizing defenses. Many fans on this board want this to be the Texans. That is sadly an empty dream

Except for a few rare exceptions, thanks to cap space, you are either an offensive or defensive team. There is no real room for balance in the modern NFL. Trying to be a power-run and blistering defense cuts exactly against the grain of what the Texans are.

Draft Crabtree or Maclin and defeat the Titans by dropping 40 points on them and forcing VY to thrown instead of trying to slug it out with Smash and Dash. Match the Colts in points and force the Colts offense to one dimension instead of worrying about Addadi as much as Manning.

Adding Crabtree or Maclin helps the team much more than adding Cushing to the defense. They take the team to the next level while any medicore defensive talent is another cog in a broken down machine
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We have a guy that could be a DPOTY candidate for the next 8 years, a guy that should be the building block for an elite defense, and you would rather abandon that side of the football because you don't believe we can be balanced salary cap wise? If anything we should spend more money on defense because Kubiak has shown that he can get production from less heralded offensive players. The Denver teams that had success when Kubiak was there were always talented on both sides of the ball.
 
Jackie Chiles said:
We have a guy that could be a DPOTY candidate for the next 8 years, a guy that should be the building block for an elite defense, and you would rather abandon that side of the football because you don't believe we can be balanced salary cap wise? If anything we should spend more money on defense because Kubiak has shown that he can get production from less heralded offensive players. The Denver teams that had success when Kubiak was there were always talented on both sides of the ball.
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Yep, what this team needs is a Steve Atwater type player....a real tone setter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yScioc_dmXg&fmt=17

:)......that would solve EVERYTHING.
 
Carr Bombed said:
The year the Rams won the superbowl they had the 6th best defense in the league...

The year the Colts won the superbowl their defense gelled towards the end of the season and they had the #1 defense in the postseason. Before that no matter how many times they had all these great offenses they never did anything.....even when they were breaking records.

A main reason why the Patriots won 3 superbowls was because of defense, even when they gave Brady all these offensive weapons and they went 16-0, they lost the Superbowl because their defense got too old. Once they had a defense that could stop Peyton Manning dead when he was in his absolute prime, then they had a defense that couldn't even stop Eli Manning. Eli isn't Peyton (I think he's highly overrated)

We can get all the offensive talent we want, but we aren't going to go anywhere that we really want to go (playoffs) until the defense improves.
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Point is that the Rams and Colts built their offense first, then got defenses to match it, something teams like the late 1990s Vikings could not do.

Mario Williams is our Dwight Freeny, a player to build a defense around. We need a dominating secondary player to go with him to play the role of Bob Sanders. Taylor Mays is probably that guy but he stayed in school.

The offense is three players away from being able to carry the Texans to the division title (No. 2 WR, power RB, and C). The Texans could be playing 12-win seasons instead of going 8-8 again if the offense is fine tuned. I'd take a few playoff berths before the defense was built to get us to the Super Bowl
 
The1ApplePie said:
Point is that the Rams and Colts built their offense first, then got defenses to match it, something teams like the late 1990s Vikings could not do.

Mario Williams is our Dwight Freeny, a player to build a defense around. We need a dominating secondary player to go with him to play the role of Bob Sanders. Taylor Mays is probably that guy but he stayed in school.

The offense is three players away from being able to carry the Texans to the division title (No. 2 WR, power RB, and C). The Texans could be playing 12-win seasons instead of going 8-8 again if the offense is fine tuned. I'd take a few playoff berths before the defense was built to get us to the Super Bowl
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Our offense is already built on the wings (WRs and TE.....Kevin Walter quietly was one of the best #2s in the league, yet on here he never gets the credit he deserves), we just need a big RB (which could be found in the 4th round) and it wouldn't hurt to upgrade the interior of the line.

We had a elite offense last season, we're already pretty well built on that side of the ball.....it's time to add to the defense now, they're the reason why we didn't make the playoffs. You can't consistently go 12-4 without a defense unless you have a alltime great QB like Peyton Manning......NOLA can't even do it and they have Drew Brees.
 
Last drive of the Super bowl by the Steelers is why I want to build a defense, Arizona couldn't stop them when they needed to.
 
I don't know if I could pass on Crabtree in the freakish, and unbelievable way for him to drop to #15. You let your board dictate who you pick, not your needs.

I'm pretty sure Crabtree would be higher on the Texans' boards than say Cushing, or Matthews.

All scouts are comparing Crabtree to Andre Johnson. Think about having to Andre Johnsons and Kevin Walter playing the role of a Wes Welker type. #1 offense for sure! Plus it could help out our redzone offense majorly!

Gil Brandt referred to Crabtree as the next Michael Irvin. Don't think I could pass on that!

There are six other rounds to focus on the defense.
 
Crabtree isn't going to be there at 15, unless dumbass Skip Brainless (who actually thinks Percy Harvin is the best offensive player and WR in this draft....even after he found out about him failing his drug test) is running the FO of the 14 teams ahead of us, so all of this is null and void.
 
Carr Bombed said:
We had a elite offense last season, we're already pretty well built on that side of the ball.....
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We have a good offense, but it's not elite. While we were 3rd in the league in yardage piled up, we were only 17th in actual scoring. That's not elite.

I think our offense as it is before the draft is good enough to get us into the playoffs but only if our defense is much improved. There are holes to fill on both sides of the line before we get to the playoffs, more holes on the defense than offense though.
 
Maclin and Crabtree are top 10 I think. Maclin could be a Raider. Some gurus are saying Al wants another Cliff Branch type guy.
 
Mari-OWNED! said:
I don't know if I could pass on Crabtree in the freakish, and unbelievable way for him to drop to #15. You let your board dictate who you pick, not your needs.

I'm pretty sure Crabtree would be higher on the Texans' boards than say Cushing, or Matthews.

All scouts are comparing Crabtree to Andre Johnson. Think about having to Andre Johnsons and Kevin Walter playing the role of a Wes Welker type. #1 offense for sure! Plus it could help out our redzone offense majorly!

Gil Brandt referred to Crabtree as the next Michael Irvin. Don't think I could pass on that!

There are six other rounds to focus on the defense.
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Repeat after me: Kevin Walter is NOT a slot receiver. Kevin Walter is NOT a slot receiver. The only attribute that Walter shares with Welker is skin color. That's it. Walter's strengths--his size, blocking ability and range--are ideally suited for an outside receiver role. He's not a shifty guy who could play the slot.

Now, if the plan is to keep Walter for another year or two and then let him move on, then a guy like Crabtree makes some sense at 15. He would certainly be a BPA pick at 15, and having Walter and AJ means that we have time to develop him. WRs usually take some time to get comfortable in the NFL.
 
The1ApplePie said:
Follow the Colts, Rams, and to a lesser extent, the Cardinals. Keep adding high picks to the offense and get just enough defense to get you to the promised land.

Fans here want to be the Eagles or Giants. Wrong teams to follow, as they and their success are nothing like the Texans
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The Giants just won the SB and had the best record in the NFL for most of the season last year until the end, and then they lost their best WR.

The Eagles have been a playoff team practically this entire decade. And I;m not sure where you're getting this stuff from about the Eagles not having that good of an offense to go with that defense, but they've had a pretty good offense as well. They just haven't had any WR's since the TO debacle. And another thing, they are both in pretty much the toughest division each year or at least the 2nd toughest and both have remained pretty competitive. Hell in this decade alone the Eagles have been to 5 AFC championships in which one of them they made it to the SB. That is not a bad team to pattern themselves after at all.

A WR is the last thing we need to draft this season with our 1st pick. If we're going to go with offense, then it should be Moreno or Wells.

Our defense has to improve.

You want to talk about a great offense with no D, then look no further than the NO Saints. They haven't gone anywhere with that awful defense and great offense. You have to be more balanced than that. The Cardinals got a lot better on defense this season as well and that is what also made them a lot better.


ANd all these folks saying that the Texans had an Elite offense last season, might want to go look at points around the league. We were not an elite offense at all. We were great yards wise, but with all of the TO's and all we were not elite.
 
Hooston Texan said:
Repeat after me: Kevin Walter is NOT a slot receiver.
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I don't agree.

KW isn't the Wes Welker kind of slot receiver. But that's not the only way to play the slot. A slot receiver could be a big tough guy that plays well in traffic, has good hands, and makes the tough catches. And to me, that's KW.
 
The Pencil Neck said:
I don't agree.

KW isn't the Wes Welker kind of slot receiver. But that's not the only way to play the slot. A slot receiver could be a big tough guy that plays well in traffic, has good hands, and makes the tough catches. And to me, that's KW.
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We already have a guy that plays the way you describe: Owen Daniels. Putting Walter in the slot opposite Daniels is somewhat redundant, especially if both are trying to work the middle of the field.

What I really like about our basic offensive set--two backs, one tight, two wideouts--is that we have three of the best blockers in the business at the skill positions: AJ, Walter and, of course, Leach. Big plays happen in the running game when your WRs wipe out a couple guys in the back line of the defense. AJ and Walter do that as a matter of routine. Now, maybe Crabtree is a great blocker (I don't know), but I don't read that as being one of his attributes.
 
Texecutioner said:
The Giants just won the SB and had the best record in the NFL for most of the season last year until the end, and then they lost their best WR.


If we're going to go with offense, then it should be Moreno or Wells.

Our defense has to improve.



ANd all these folks saying that the Texans had an Elite offense last season, might want to go look at points around the league. We were not an elite offense at all. We were great yards wise, but with all of the TO's and all we were not elite.
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Yes! Knoshawn, welcome to Texas baby!:cowboy1:
You mentioned the loss of WR for the Giants. They do have 2 seconds and 2 thirds and want to move up. We got to be able to work that deal.
 
Thorn said:
We have a good offense, but it's not elite. While we were 3rd in the league in yardage piled up, we were only 17th in actual scoring. That's not elite.

I think our offense as it is before the draft is good enough to get us into the playoffs but only if our defense is much improved. There are holes to fill on both sides of the line before we get to the playoffs, more holes on the defense than offense though.
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The reason why the scoring didn't match our yardage was because of turnovers and the lack of a goal line back (and also a center that can hold the line). If we cut down on the turnovers and run better in goal line situations our scoring will jump through the roof. Mainly we shot ourselfs in the foot with turnovers though.
 
Carr Bombed said:
The reason why the scoring didn't match our yardage was because of turnovers and the lack of a goal line back (and also a center that can hold the line). If we cut down on the turnovers and run better in goal line situations our scoring will jump through the roof. Mainly we shot ourselfs in the foot with turnovers though.
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Two examples. Andre Johnsons fumble against Miami, and the INT in the endzone against Baltimore. So do any of you think that with Sage gone that number will go down?
 
Hooston Texan said:
Repeat after me: Kevin Walter is NOT a slot receiver. Kevin Walter is NOT a slot receiver. The only attribute that Walter shares with Welker is skin color. That's it. Walter's strengths--his size, blocking ability and range--are ideally suited for an outside receiver role. He's not a shifty guy who could play the slot.

Now, if the plan is to keep Walter for another year or two and then let him move on, then a guy like Crabtree makes some sense at 15. He would certainly be a BPA pick at 15, and having Walter and AJ means that we have time to develop him. WRs usually take some time to get comfortable in the NFL.
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Just my opinion....the only way you cold do this is to move Walter the same day. Our problem isn't our Wrs. Our problem is getting bogged down in the green zone and settling for field goals instead of touch downs. On the one hand you could say that Crabtree's forty one career TDs at TT fixes that. On the other hand.....it may just fix itself with the o-line another year older and wiser. Or a bigger power back in tandem with Steve Slaton. What is not in doubt is a franchise's ablity to pay two high end guys big money.....you can do it for a while...but not for long. And in Houston, Andre Johnson is our bell cow. Anyone is going to get shown the Money around here....It should be Johnson and Slaton. Not Crabtree and Wells....or Moreno. JMHO.
 
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El Tejano said:
Two examples. Andre Johnsons fumble against Miami, and the INT in the endzone against Baltimore. So do any of you think that with Sage gone that number will go down?
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Don't forget the Owen Daniels fumble against GB as he's about to run into the endzone......or hell even Slaton's fumble in the redzone in the very same game.

Turnovers were the main problem for the lack of scoring......not a total lack of offensive talent, we just have to get smarter. (so yeah, when healthy I think we have a elite offense....our offense can go toe to toe with any offense in this league.....our defense CAN'T) I used to keep count of how many points we left off the board every week last season and it drove me crazy. If we fix that one area we're going to the playoffs.
 
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Craptree seems to be a touchdown magnet in the red zone. He fights for the ball like Larry Fitz. The trio of Crabtree, AJ, and Owen Daniels would by nearly undefendable in the red zone
 
The1ApplePie said:
The Texans defense is terrible and it will take several drafts to fix it. Better IMO to get a No. 1a WR and build the offense to true elite status. The Texans aren't going to win games, let alone playoff births with defensive struggles. I'd rather pair AJ with a stud to shred defenses than waste a pick on another Amobi Okoye that only hinders the team's development
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So you acknowledge we have issues on defense - that "will take several drafts to fix" - but rather than attempt to start addressing them immediately, we should choose to ignore them and draft to a strength...?? :headhurts:

Okay, assuming the WR we pick works out (because I'm not convinced Kubiak will sit his 60-catch, 8-TD, good-blocking, hand-picked boy, Walter, for some unproven rookie); at best we move up from the #3 offense to the #1 or 2 offense.
...big whoop... we finish 8-8 again; if that.

If these guys were on the same talent/size level as a Calvin Johnson, maybe I roll the dice. They're not even close.

So, IMHO, we draft defensively - after trading down.

Minnesota comes to mind because they need a deep threat at WR to go with their new RosenCopter (football sold separately) and A.D. But they have Tampa, the Jets, and, as someone else mentioned, Detroit, all ahead of them and each of whom could also use a big-splash WR to energize their fanbases.

So if Crabtree is there at 15, Smithiak should call Minnesota and maybe Tampa to see what they're willing to offer.

...did I mention we run to set up the pass and WRs must BLOCK in this offense. Walter can block. has Crabtree ever HAD to block?? He'll have to block LBs and SS's in our offense. I don't see Smithiak paying 1st round money to a guy who isn't a blocker and came out of a trick offense.
 
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The1ApplePie said:
Craptree seems to be a touchdown magnet in the red zone. He fights for the ball like Larry Fitz. The trio of Crabtree, AJ, and Owen Daniels would by nearly undefendable in the red zone
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And Kubiak would still run the ball down at the goalline (He's proven that time and time again down there....even with AJ, Walter, and Daniels)....that's what he does, which is why we're going to grab a goalline back in this draft.
 
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